The Resistant trait [Archive] - Wizards Community

The Resistant trait [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thief_of_Hope
11-07-07, 08:32 PM All right, I had this crazy idea, inspired by an online comic I was reading (for those who are curious, it's at www.dominic-deegan.com). It's a trait that makes the character completely immune to magic.

Flavor: A very rare mutation of the genes results in one child out of every 100,000 to be born with a complete immunity to magic, good or ill.

Crunch: Serving as the upside and the downside, this trait makes the character untargetable and unaffected by spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items, including magic gear, potions, wands, etc. Magical effects that indirectly affect the character with this trait are still a threat (summoned creatures, blowing up the ledge that the character is standing on, etc.) The character does not take damage or effects from area spells either, although, again, may have to deal with environment alterations that result from the spell.

The character can still use items and be affected by items whose magic is used to strengthen the item, but not using the magic to affect the character directly. So they could still benefit from the +1 enhancement of a magic weapon, or the Keen enchantment, but not, say from the Haste enchantment (which affects the character's body, not just the weapon). The same can be said for the effectiveness of weapons or items brought against the character.

Note that a character with this trait is not prevented from becoming a magic user themselves. They simply will not be able to benefit from many of the spells on their lists (invisibility, bull's strength, etc.)

A character can recognize a character as Magic Resistant with a DC 30 Knowledge (Arcana) check.

Benefits: Casters will have a MUCH more difficult time dealing with a character with this trait, although, as mentioned above, there are ways for them to adjust tactics against such a character, and they have a chance of knowing that they must adjust their tactics with a proper Knowledge check. Many magical items that other characters can use will also be ineffective against a character with this trait.

Plus, if the caster in your group is totally reckless, you'll come out all right when he flings a fireball at the huge melee you're in the middle of.

Drawbacks: Probably the biggest disadvantage is the inability to be magically healed. However, not being able to be buffed, enchanted, or use most magic gear is also a big drawback.

Roleplaying ideas: Your character may try to hide the fact they can't be affected by magic, perhaps taking up a quiet profession where they won't need to interact with it, such as farming or baking. You may see magic as a crutch that others rely far too much upon. If you are an adventurer, you may feel a need to prove that a dedicated individual has no need for magical enhancements, constantly working to better your skills and your body.

All right, what I would most earnestly appreciate is for people to tell me what they think of the trait, how they might iron it out, and whether it even looks all that interesting and/or fun. I really like the flavor of it, but I'm pretty sure that the drawbacks are more than most people would be willing to pay for the benefits. I welcome your opinions, but would appreciate constructive comments to accompany any of your criticism.

Thanks very much for any and all help!
molten_dragon
11-07-07, 08:45 PM I agree with you that it's a cool concept, but I think the negatives far outweigh the positives. In most games I play in, I am the target of friendly magical effects far more than I am hostile magic effects. And once a spellcaster realized what the person was, it would still be pretty easy to take them out. Since they can still be affected indirectly by magic, they would still be subject to most damage-dealing conjuration spells such as the orb of xxxx spells. By RAW the magic is only used to conjure the acid or whatever and fling it at the target, it's actually non-magical once it's conjured (uses the same logic as why they can be affected by summoned creatures really). You could always rule otherwise, but overall I think it would be more of a flavor thing for NPCs than anything else.
Ocom
11-08-07, 04:19 AM I agree with molten_dragon's view on conjuration magic and the negative part. Just think how long your magic-resistant fighter would need to heal. Also the magic items beacome a problem. A magical sword would be useful, and armor but forget about those boots of dexterity, Amulet of Will and many others. But would deflection bonuses still apply? It would just come down to the DM's understanding of the item's description and view on those magical effects.

So yeah, it would be a great for a RP trait but a major drawback for your would-be hero :)
Master_Vega
11-08-07, 07:35 PM Would making the character the center of a permanent antimagic field (10ftx10ft) work better?

You could also draw some inspiration from this feat:

Psionic Hole [General]

You are anathema to psionic creatures and characters.
Prerequisite

Con 15.
Benefit

When a foe strikes you in melee combat, the foe immediately loses its psionic focus, if any. Also, if you are the target of a power, the manifester of the power must spend an additional number of power points equal to your Wisdom bonus, or the power fails (all the power points spent on the power are still lost). This extra cost does not count toward the maximum power points a manifester can spend on a single power.
Special

You cannot take or use this feat if you have the ability to use powers (if you have a power point reserve or psi-like abilities).
Thief_of_Hope
11-09-07, 12:33 AM Would making the character the center of a permanent antimagic field (10ftx10ft) work better?

There's an idea. Though I wonder if there would be a way to make it so that you aren't hosing the spellcasters you're next to. Unless....hmm, I suppose you'd gain an additional benefit in being able to stop enemy spellcasters by being next to them. Not that you shouldn't be grappling enemy spellcasters if you're next to them anyway....

Would there be a way to implement it but still be able to have the character able to cast their own magics? Or will that one have to go by the wayside? I'm not sure how I would set that up. Hmm.

I do like that way of going about it though. Can anyone think of any cheater ways people might try to get around a permanent, undispellable antimagic field around their character? Perhaps some form of horrible abuse of the trait that would have to be taken into account?

Gah, I just thought of that little bald kid from X-Men 3. The one that took away the mutations of anyone around him.
Thief_of_Hope
11-17-07, 03:17 AM :bump:

Hey all, just wondering if anyone had thoughts on the balance of implementing Master_Vega's idea of a permanent 10x10 anti-magic field around the character for the trait. Does it work all right for the flavor? Is there some way that it's totally broken? I crave input!
runestar
11-17-07, 08:25 AM Magic immunity is utterly unplayable in the hands of a PC.

Your party comes to a cliff, the obvious solution would be to cast mass fly on everyone and zip past. Oh wait, make that everyone save for the magic immune PC...

As earlier noted, healing is a very big problem unless you are a warforged, where the line of repair spells ignore sr.

No teleport or invis either.

Eq is the biggest problem. The cr guidelines assumes that a PC is adequately equipped based on his wealth guidelines. This will result in said PC being too weak, since he cannot benefit from a lot of magic gear, and unable to properly take on challenges which would be "fair fights" for the rest of the party.

Avoid it like the plague, that is my suggestion.:P
ppirilla
11-17-07, 10:54 AM A very creative player could use this to his advantage, but most players will be unwilling to put in the time to figure out how to benifit from it.

As others pointed out, the immunity to healing spells is a major problem. If you house-rule mundane healing to make it more viable, then this trait could be a fun addition to a campaign.
runestar
11-17-07, 08:11 PM but most players will be unwilling to put in the time to figure out how to benifit from it.

Or in the very least, lack the degree of creativity required to "break" magic immunity while eschewing its drawbacks somehow.

I suppose given enough splatbooks, this might be done, but how so eludes me at the moment.

Can anyone give some scenarios of how this can be a boon? However I look at it, it is a drawback. Heck, even spellcasters can ignore sr now with orb spells...
Remmer
11-17-07, 08:38 PM Vow of Poverty anyone?
ppirilla
11-17-07, 10:41 PM Vow of Poverty anyone?

House Rule - Vow of Poverty's bonuses are divine gifts and thus magical in nature. (and therefore negated by this trait)

Hey, if it's a house rule that your player is breaking, they should expect a house rule to fix it.
ppirilla
11-17-07, 10:53 PM Can anyone give some scenarios of how this can be a boon? However I look at it, it is a drawback. Heck, even spellcasters can ignore sr now with orb spells...

A melee character charges into the enemy. The artillery caster starts throwing fireballs in, knowing that they won't hurt his companion.

The party finds an array of items which they fear may be cursed. Oh, curses are magic and that won't affect me, so I can just pick them up and carry them out of here, where we can identify them later. In fact, he can directly test a magic weapon without ever having it identified, since a cursed weapon's -X to hit would still affect him, but the compulsion to continue using it would not.

The advantage in a battle against a caster should be obvious.

A rogue with this trait will never have to worry about a magical trap (though the mundane ones will be a bit trickier without skill-boosting and ability-boosting items)

Yes, they're all corner cases, and yes the issue of healing still needs to be addressed, but once that's fixed, it can be effective.
strenoth
11-17-07, 11:07 PM and re: VoP, all it's benifits are Su anyway, so it'd be a wasted feat.
Thief_of_Hope
11-18-07, 03:44 AM A very creative player could use this to his advantage, but most players will be unwilling to put in the time to figure out how to benifit from it.

As others pointed out, the immunity to healing spells is a major problem. If you house-rule mundane healing to make it more viable, then this trait could be a fun addition to a campaign.

Actually, now that you mention it, I DID houserule some of my own non-magical healing. Please feel free to take a look, not many people have given me comments on it:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=949800

It's in the third post.
blade265
11-21-07, 09:12 AM A melee character charges into the enemy. The artillery caster starts throwing fireballs in, knowing that they won't hurt his companion.

Fireball will still work on someone with in an antimagic field.
Thief_of_Hope
11-22-07, 03:18 AM Fireball will still work on someone with in an antimagic field.

It does? Why?

An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it.

Doesn't that mean that the fireball won't affect the antimagic-ed part of the area? :confused:
blade265
11-23-07, 06:49 AM It does? Why?
A fireball's damage is fire not magical so the anti-magic won't affect it unless the spell is centered within the anti-magic zone. You haven't given how far the affect extends so I am assuming it would be no more than 10ft being personal, a fireballs blast cover's a 20ft radius, so a fireball centered 15ft from the target is not in the anti-magic zone and goes off, fire damage. if it were centered within the anti-magic zone it wouldn't go off.
ppirilla
11-25-07, 04:58 PM A fireball's damage is fire not magical so the anti-magic won't affect it unless the spell is centered within the anti-magic zone. You haven't given how far the affect extends so I am assuming it would be no more than 10ft being personal, a fireballs blast cover's a 20ft radius, so a fireball centered 15ft from the target is not in the anti-magic zone and goes off, fire damage. if it were centered within the anti-magic zone it wouldn't go off.

I don't think that's an official ruling. You're free to run your game that way, but there are others who don't.
Patrick Draken-Korin
01-21-08, 05:24 PM I read that comic. Another source for a non-magical trait would be the Pools of twilight book, the third in a trilogy for the forgotten realms. I think it ws second edition-wise for when it was written. The main character is the son of a sorceress (i think) who cast many spell while pregnant; end result the kid's magic null.

I figured the way to run this would be the character has a special SR that affects all magic (not just SR related spells and effects), except the character can simply will the effect away for beneficial magic; the kid had to concentrate prety hard to benefit from a healing spell.

So cover-all SR and make a Concentration check to lower it. Maybe as a spell-touched feat (parent was heavily magic-active).

I never came up with anything better than that. I didn't find DD until years after reading the book, and never though much about it, till now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thief_of_Hope 11-07-07, 08:32 PM	All right, I had this crazy idea, inspired by an online comic I was reading (for those who are curious, it's at www.dominic-deegan.com). It's a trait that makes the character completely immune to magic. Flavor: A very rare mutation of the genes results in one child out of every 100,000 to be born with a complete immunity to magic, good or ill. Crunch: Serving as the upside and the downside, this trait makes the character untargetable and unaffected by spells, spell-like abilities, and magic items, including magic gear, potions, wands, etc. Magical effects that indirectly affect the character with this trait are still a threat (summoned creatures, blowing up the ledge that the character is standing on, etc.) The character does not take damage or effects from area spells either, although, again, may have to deal with environment alterations that result from the spell. The character can still use items and be affected by items whose magic is used to strengthen the item, but not using the magic to affect the character directly. So they could still benefit from the +1 enhancement of a magic weapon, or the Keen enchantment, but not, say from the Haste enchantment (which affects the character's body, not just the weapon). The same can be said for the effectiveness of weapons or items brought against the character. Note that a character with this trait is not prevented from becoming a magic user themselves. They simply will not be able to benefit from many of the spells on their lists (invisibility, bull's strength, etc.) A character can recognize a character as Magic Resistant with a DC 30 Knowledge (Arcana) check. Benefits: Casters will have a MUCH more difficult time dealing with a character with this trait, although, as mentioned above, there are ways for them to adjust tactics against such a character, and they have a chance of knowing that they must adjust their tactics with a proper Knowledge check. Many magical items that other characters can use will also be ineffective against a character with this trait. Plus, if the caster in your group is totally reckless, you'll come out all right when he flings a fireball at the huge melee you're in the middle of. Drawbacks: Probably the biggest disadvantage is the inability to be magically healed. However, not being able to be buffed, enchanted, or use most magic gear is also a big drawback. Roleplaying ideas: Your character may try to hide the fact they can't be affected by magic, perhaps taking up a quiet profession where they won't need to interact with it, such as farming or baking. You may see magic as a crutch that others rely far too much upon. If you are an adventurer, you may feel a need to prove that a dedicated individual has no need for magical enhancements, constantly working to better your skills and your body. All right, what I would most earnestly appreciate is for people to tell me what they think of the trait, how they might iron it out, and whether it even looks all that interesting and/or fun. I really like the flavor of it, but I'm pretty sure that the drawbacks are more than most people would be willing to pay for the benefits. I welcome your opinions, but would appreciate constructive comments to accompany any of your criticism. Thanks very much for any and all help!
molten_dragon 11-07-07, 08:45 PM	I agree with you that it's a cool concept, but I think the negatives far outweigh the positives. In most games I play in, I am the target of friendly magical effects far more than I am hostile magic effects. And once a spellcaster realized what the person was, it would still be pretty easy to take them out. Since they can still be affected indirectly by magic, they would still be subject to most damage-dealing conjuration spells such as the orb of xxxx spells. By RAW the magic is only used to conjure the acid or whatever and fling it at the target, it's actually non-magical once it's conjured (uses the same logic as why they can be affected by summoned creatures really). You could always rule otherwise, but overall I think it would be more of a flavor thing for NPCs than anything else.
Ocom 11-08-07, 04:19 AM	I agree with molten_dragon's view on conjuration magic and the negative part. Just think how long your magic-resistant fighter would need to heal. Also the magic items beacome a problem. A magical sword would be useful, and armor but forget about those boots of dexterity, Amulet of Will and many others. But would deflection bonuses still apply? It would just come down to the DM's understanding of the item's description and view on those magical effects. So yeah, it would be a great for a RP trait but a major drawback for your would-be hero :)
Master_Vega 11-08-07, 07:35 PM	Would making the character the center of a permanent antimagic field (10ftx10ft) work better? You could also draw some inspiration from this feat: Psionic Hole [General] You are anathema to psionic creatures and characters. Prerequisite Con 15. Benefit When a foe strikes you in melee combat, the foe immediately loses its psionic focus, if any. Also, if you are the target of a power, the manifester of the power must spend an additional number of power points equal to your Wisdom bonus, or the power fails (all the power points spent on the power are still lost). This extra cost does not count toward the maximum power points a manifester can spend on a single power. Special You cannot take or use this feat if you have the ability to use powers (if you have a power point reserve or psi-like abilities).
Thief_of_Hope 11-09-07, 12:33 AM	Would making the character the center of a permanent antimagic field (10ftx10ft) work better? There's an idea. Though I wonder if there would be a way to make it so that you aren't hosing the spellcasters you're next to. Unless....hmm, I suppose you'd gain an additional benefit in being able to stop enemy spellcasters by being next to them. Not that you shouldn't be grappling enemy spellcasters if you're next to them anyway.... Would there be a way to implement it but still be able to have the character able to cast their own magics? Or will that one have to go by the wayside? I'm not sure how I would set that up. Hmm. I do like that way of going about it though. Can anyone think of any cheater ways people might try to get around a permanent, undispellable antimagic field around their character? Perhaps some form of horrible abuse of the trait that would have to be taken into account? Gah, I just thought of that little bald kid from X-Men 3. The one that took away the mutations of anyone around him.
Thief_of_Hope 11-17-07, 03:17 AM	:bump: Hey all, just wondering if anyone had thoughts on the balance of implementing Master_Vega's idea of a permanent 10x10 anti-magic field around the character for the trait. Does it work all right for the flavor? Is there some way that it's totally broken? I crave input!
runestar 11-17-07, 08:25 AM	Magic immunity is utterly unplayable in the hands of a PC. Your party comes to a cliff, the obvious solution would be to cast mass fly on everyone and zip past. Oh wait, make that everyone save for the magic immune PC... As earlier noted, healing is a very big problem unless you are a warforged, where the line of repair spells ignore sr. No teleport or invis either. Eq is the biggest problem. The cr guidelines assumes that a PC is adequately equipped based on his wealth guidelines. This will result in said PC being too weak, since he cannot benefit from a lot of magic gear, and unable to properly take on challenges which would be "fair fights" for the rest of the party. Avoid it like the plague, that is my suggestion.:P
ppirilla 11-17-07, 10:54 AM	A very creative player could use this to his advantage, but most players will be unwilling to put in the time to figure out how to benifit from it. As others pointed out, the immunity to healing spells is a major problem. If you house-rule mundane healing to make it more viable, then this trait could be a fun addition to a campaign.
runestar 11-17-07, 08:11 PM	but most players will be unwilling to put in the time to figure out how to benifit from it. Or in the very least, lack the degree of creativity required to "break" magic immunity while eschewing its drawbacks somehow. I suppose given enough splatbooks, this might be done, but how so eludes me at the moment. Can anyone give some scenarios of how this can be a boon? However I look at it, it is a drawback. Heck, even spellcasters can ignore sr now with orb spells...
Remmer 11-17-07, 08:38 PM	Vow of Poverty anyone?
ppirilla 11-17-07, 10:41 PM	Vow of Poverty anyone? House Rule - Vow of Poverty's bonuses are divine gifts and thus magical in nature. (and therefore negated by this trait) Hey, if it's a house rule that your player is breaking, they should expect a house rule to fix it.
ppirilla 11-17-07, 10:53 PM	Can anyone give some scenarios of how this can be a boon? However I look at it, it is a drawback. Heck, even spellcasters can ignore sr now with orb spells... A melee character charges into the enemy. The artillery caster starts throwing fireballs in, knowing that they won't hurt his companion. The party finds an array of items which they fear may be cursed. Oh, curses are magic and that won't affect me, so I can just pick them up and carry them out of here, where we can identify them later. In fact, he can directly test a magic weapon without ever having it identified, since a cursed weapon's -X to hit would still affect him, but the compulsion to continue using it would not. The advantage in a battle against a caster should be obvious. A rogue with this trait will never have to worry about a magical trap (though the mundane ones will be a bit trickier without skill-boosting and ability-boosting items) Yes, they're all corner cases, and yes the issue of healing still needs to be addressed, but once that's fixed, it can be effective.
strenoth 11-17-07, 11:07 PM	and re: VoP, all it's benifits are Su anyway, so it'd be a wasted feat.
Thief_of_Hope 11-18-07, 03:44 AM	A very creative player could use this to his advantage, but most players will be unwilling to put in the time to figure out how to benifit from it. As others pointed out, the immunity to healing spells is a major problem. If you house-rule mundane healing to make it more viable, then this trait could be a fun addition to a campaign. Actually, now that you mention it, I DID houserule some of my own non-magical healing. Please feel free to take a look, not many people have given me comments on it: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=949800 It's in the third post.
blade265 11-21-07, 09:12 AM	A melee character charges into the enemy. The artillery caster starts throwing fireballs in, knowing that they won't hurt his companion. Fireball will still work on someone with in an antimagic field.
Thief_of_Hope 11-22-07, 03:18 AM	Fireball will still work on someone with in an antimagic field. It does? Why? An antimagic field suppresses any spell or magical effect used within, brought into, or cast into the area, but does not dispel it. Doesn't that mean that the fireball won't affect the antimagic-ed part of the area? :confused:
blade265 11-23-07, 06:49 AM	It does? Why? A fireball's damage is fire not magical so the anti-magic won't affect it unless the spell is centered within the anti-magic zone. You haven't given how far the affect extends so I am assuming it would be no more than 10ft being personal, a fireballs blast cover's a 20ft radius, so a fireball centered 15ft from the target is not in the anti-magic zone and goes off, fire damage. if it were centered within the anti-magic zone it wouldn't go off.
ppirilla 11-25-07, 04:58 PM	A fireball's damage is fire not magical so the anti-magic won't affect it unless the spell is centered within the anti-magic zone. You haven't given how far the affect extends so I am assuming it would be no more than 10ft being personal, a fireballs blast cover's a 20ft radius, so a fireball centered 15ft from the target is not in the anti-magic zone and goes off, fire damage. if it were centered within the anti-magic zone it wouldn't go off. I don't think that's an official ruling. You're free to run your game that way, but there are others who don't.
Patrick Draken-Korin 01-21-08, 05:24 PM	I read that comic. Another source for a non-magical trait would be the Pools of twilight book, the third in a trilogy for the forgotten realms. I think it ws second edition-wise for when it was written. The main character is the son of a sorceress (i think) who cast many spell while pregnant; end result the kid's magic null. I figured the way to run this would be the character has a special SR that affects all magic (not just SR related spells and effects), except the character can simply will the effect away for beneficial magic; the kid had to concentrate prety hard to benefit from a healing spell. So cover-all SR and make a Concentration check to lower it. Maybe as a spell-touched feat (parent was heavily magic-active). I never came up with anything better than that. I didn't find DD until years after reading the book, and never though much about it, till now.