ToB Magic System Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

ToB Magic System Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eldritch_Lord
05-01-07, 07:03 PM Hello all. At the moment, I'm working on a magic system based on ToB (very original, I know;)). I think I have most of it worked out, but there is one particular mechanic for which I would like to hear peoples' opinions.

For buff spells, I'm trying a variant on stances, where you have one or more active at one time and they last until you change them. More powereful buff spells (divine power et al) would last for only 2 or 3 rounds and would be readied as normal, but lower-powered buff spells (blur, cat's grace, mage armor, etc.) would stay on the target until dismissed, changed out, or dispelled.

Also, instead of regular metamagic feats, I'm thinking of incremental increases in spell power. By that I mean instead of a straight-up doubling of spell range, area, etc. you could add +10ft range, +1 to the save DC, and so on. The caster would take a metamagic feat that would grant several effects, such as one feat for area, range, and duration, and then would be able to sugment his or her spells. Finally, spell DC is now 10+ability mod only, instead of 10+spell level+mod, so a caster will have to increase the DC him- or herself.

Here are the abilities as I have written them thus far; tell me what you think:

Hold Spell
Casters with this ability gain the discipline necessary to sustain a spell when it would have otherwise expired. Casters have a number of “holding slots” equal to their ranks in Concentration; each ongoing spell fills one slot. For each slot filled, the caster’s effective ranks in Concentration are reduced by one until the spell is removed from the slot. The number of holding slots available changes if the caster's ranks in Concentration increase or decrease.

A spell may be placed in a holding slot as part of casting a spell, or an ongoing spell may be placed in a slot as a standard action. A spell may be removed from a slot as a move action; any spell removed from a slot ends immediately. Any spell in a holding slot lasts as long as it is held, with some caveats. First, sustaining the held spells is mentally strenuous; after every period of a number of minutes equal to his or her class level, the caster must make a Concentration check with a DC of 15 + number of slots occupied. If he or she fails the check, one spell of his or her choice is removed from its slot; the spell expires as normal.

Second, held spells are still vulnerable to suppression and dispelling; while in an antimagic field, a null-psionics field (if using magic-psionics transparency), a dead magic area, or any other magic-suppressing area, any held spells are suppressed as normal, and time suppressed does not count against the time in which the caster must make Concentration checks. Held spells are still vulnerable to dispelling as normal.

Modify Spell
Casters with this ability have the ability to modify their spells just as other casters can with metamagic abilities, but do not need to use up as many feats to do so. In the same way that they have “holding slots” based on Concentration, these casters have “metamagic slots” based on Spellcraft. Each Spellcraft slot can hold one metamagic effect, reducing effective Spellcraft ranks in the process; any and all metamagic effects in Spellcraft slots may be applied to a caster’s spell at no extra cost. Changing metamagic slot allocation is a move action. Effects may be chosen multiple times, and they stack. Available effects include the following:
• Increase range by 10 ft.
• Increase save DC by 1
• Increase caster level check vs. SR by 1
• Change area to different area (line, cone, sphere, cylinder)
• Increase area by 15ft. (line), 10 ft. (cone), or 5ft. radius (sphere/cylinder)
• Add 1 additional target to multiple-target spells
• Melee/ranged attack roll instead of save

With the metamagic slots in effect, a few things would change with the spells as written. For example, because casters can so easily increase area and range, spell range would be reduced to short range and areas would be reduced to 5ft base radius. Also, Spell Focus and Spell Penetration would no longer be necessary.

Here's an example. Joe Wizard is a 5th-level caster under this system. He has 8 ranks in Concentration and Spellcraft and has a 10 in Con. Normally, his Concentration roll would be 1d20+8. However, he casts mage armor and puts it in one of his holding slots. He is now treated as having 7 ranks in Concentration, and if he wants to keep his mage armor up, he needs to make a Concentration check every 5 minutes, 1d20+7 vs. DC 16. If he were to cast another buff spell, he would need to make a Concentration check every 5 minutes of 1d20+6 vs. DC 17.

Joe Wizard is adventuring when he comes across a group of kobolds spread out in a wide area. He takes a move action to fill 4 metamagic slots with "+10ft range" and 4 slots with "+5ft radius" to turn his 50ft range, 5ft radius fireball into a 90ft range, 25ft radius fireball, then casts fireball with his standard action. After casting fireball, it's unavailable, but he could cast any other spell he has readied, with +40ft range and additional area based on whether it's a line, cylinder, or sphere.

(By the way, for those kobold fans out there, while Joe Wizard tries to decide which spell to cast next, the surviving kobold sorcerers defeat him.:D)

What do you think? Do I need to change some numbers around, reword a few things, make more extensive changes? Is it okay as-is? Any and all feedback is appreciated.
fatal error
05-01-07, 11:25 PM I like the idea, but I think you should reduce Holding slots.

Right now, a first level caster probably has 2-4 buffs on at all times (assuming he Takes 10 and has Skill Focus (Concentration)). Since spells are now restored every encounter, these buffs aren't taking up readied slots, correct? So, I think that a high level caster would just have way too many buffs going at once. The reduction in Concentration bonus really isn't a big deal if you stay off the front lines.

Metamagic looks okay, I think, except for increasing Save DC by 1, that seems too cheap to me.
Eldritch_Lord
05-02-07, 07:50 AM Thanks for the response. In terms of holding slots, would it be more reasonable to have slots based on spell level, so a 2nd-level spell is 2 slots, a 9th-level spell is 9 slots, etc.? I didn't know if that would defeat the purpose of buff slots, so I made it 1 per spell regardless, but I can change that back.

In terms of the metamagic slots, I see I left something out above. The reason I added DC +1 in there was that I was going to adjust DC to be 10+ability mod, so if the caster wants a "normal" DC of 10+spell level+mod he/she would have to use up a few slots. This would (a) let the caster have higher DCs for low level spells, making them more attractive as an option and not making casters ready all their high-level spells, and (b) make them sink a few slots to keep their DC up so as not to let them get too carried away with the other metamagic. Assuming this change is made, and remembering that Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and other DC increases are unavailable, would that be okay?

Thanks again for the feedback, and anyone else is encouraged to respond as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eldritch_Lord 05-01-07, 07:03 PM	Hello all. At the moment, I'm working on a magic system based on ToB (very original, I know;)). I think I have most of it worked out, but there is one particular mechanic for which I would like to hear peoples' opinions. For buff spells, I'm trying a variant on stances, where you have one or more active at one time and they last until you change them. More powereful buff spells (divine power et al) would last for only 2 or 3 rounds and would be readied as normal, but lower-powered buff spells (blur, cat's grace, mage armor, etc.) would stay on the target until dismissed, changed out, or dispelled. Also, instead of regular metamagic feats, I'm thinking of incremental increases in spell power. By that I mean instead of a straight-up doubling of spell range, area, etc. you could add +10ft range, +1 to the save DC, and so on. The caster would take a metamagic feat that would grant several effects, such as one feat for area, range, and duration, and then would be able to sugment his or her spells. Finally, spell DC is now 10+ability mod only, instead of 10+spell level+mod, so a caster will have to increase the DC him- or herself. Here are the abilities as I have written them thus far; tell me what you think: Hold Spell Casters with this ability gain the discipline necessary to sustain a spell when it would have otherwise expired. Casters have a number of “holding slots” equal to their ranks in Concentration; each ongoing spell fills one slot. For each slot filled, the caster’s effective ranks in Concentration are reduced by one until the spell is removed from the slot. The number of holding slots available changes if the caster's ranks in Concentration increase or decrease. A spell may be placed in a holding slot as part of casting a spell, or an ongoing spell may be placed in a slot as a standard action. A spell may be removed from a slot as a move action; any spell removed from a slot ends immediately. Any spell in a holding slot lasts as long as it is held, with some caveats. First, sustaining the held spells is mentally strenuous; after every period of a number of minutes equal to his or her class level, the caster must make a Concentration check with a DC of 15 + number of slots occupied. If he or she fails the check, one spell of his or her choice is removed from its slot; the spell expires as normal. Second, held spells are still vulnerable to suppression and dispelling; while in an antimagic field, a null-psionics field (if using magic-psionics transparency), a dead magic area, or any other magic-suppressing area, any held spells are suppressed as normal, and time suppressed does not count against the time in which the caster must make Concentration checks. Held spells are still vulnerable to dispelling as normal. Modify Spell Casters with this ability have the ability to modify their spells just as other casters can with metamagic abilities, but do not need to use up as many feats to do so. In the same way that they have “holding slots” based on Concentration, these casters have “metamagic slots” based on Spellcraft. Each Spellcraft slot can hold one metamagic effect, reducing effective Spellcraft ranks in the process; any and all metamagic effects in Spellcraft slots may be applied to a caster’s spell at no extra cost. Changing metamagic slot allocation is a move action. Effects may be chosen multiple times, and they stack. Available effects include the following: • Increase range by 10 ft. • Increase save DC by 1 • Increase caster level check vs. SR by 1 • Change area to different area (line, cone, sphere, cylinder) • Increase area by 15ft. (line), 10 ft. (cone), or 5ft. radius (sphere/cylinder) • Add 1 additional target to multiple-target spells • Melee/ranged attack roll instead of save With the metamagic slots in effect, a few things would change with the spells as written. For example, because casters can so easily increase area and range, spell range would be reduced to short range and areas would be reduced to 5ft base radius. Also, Spell Focus and Spell Penetration would no longer be necessary. Here's an example. Joe Wizard is a 5th-level caster under this system. He has 8 ranks in Concentration and Spellcraft and has a 10 in Con. Normally, his Concentration roll would be 1d20+8. However, he casts mage armor and puts it in one of his holding slots. He is now treated as having 7 ranks in Concentration, and if he wants to keep his mage armor up, he needs to make a Concentration check every 5 minutes, 1d20+7 vs. DC 16. If he were to cast another buff spell, he would need to make a Concentration check every 5 minutes of 1d20+6 vs. DC 17. Joe Wizard is adventuring when he comes across a group of kobolds spread out in a wide area. He takes a move action to fill 4 metamagic slots with "+10ft range" and 4 slots with "+5ft radius" to turn his 50ft range, 5ft radius fireball into a 90ft range, 25ft radius fireball, then casts fireball with his standard action. After casting fireball, it's unavailable, but he could cast any other spell he has readied, with +40ft range and additional area based on whether it's a line, cylinder, or sphere. (By the way, for those kobold fans out there, while Joe Wizard tries to decide which spell to cast next, the surviving kobold sorcerers defeat him.:D) What do you think? Do I need to change some numbers around, reword a few things, make more extensive changes? Is it okay as-is? Any and all feedback is appreciated.
fatal error 05-01-07, 11:25 PM	I like the idea, but I think you should reduce Holding slots. Right now, a first level caster probably has 2-4 buffs on at all times (assuming he Takes 10 and has Skill Focus (Concentration)). Since spells are now restored every encounter, these buffs aren't taking up readied slots, correct? So, I think that a high level caster would just have way too many buffs going at once. The reduction in Concentration bonus really isn't a big deal if you stay off the front lines. Metamagic looks okay, I think, except for increasing Save DC by 1, that seems too cheap to me.
Eldritch_Lord 05-02-07, 07:50 AM	Thanks for the response. In terms of holding slots, would it be more reasonable to have slots based on spell level, so a 2nd-level spell is 2 slots, a 9th-level spell is 9 slots, etc.? I didn't know if that would defeat the purpose of buff slots, so I made it 1 per spell regardless, but I can change that back. In terms of the metamagic slots, I see I left something out above. The reason I added DC +1 in there was that I was going to adjust DC to be 10+ability mod, so if the caster wants a "normal" DC of 10+spell level+mod he/she would have to use up a few slots. This would (a) let the caster have higher DCs for low level spells, making them more attractive as an option and not making casters ready all their high-level spells, and (b) make them sink a few slots to keep their DC up so as not to let them get too carried away with the other metamagic. Assuming this change is made, and remembering that Spell Focus, Greater Spell Focus and other DC increases are unavailable, would that be okay? Thanks again for the feedback, and anyone else is encouraged to respond as well.