Totem Barbarian Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Totem Barbarian Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
TwiddleStootch
07-11-07, 01:20 PM I have been looking at the Totem Barbarian Variant rule set (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVar iantTotemBarbarian))
And I am a bit confused on one of them and looking for balance help on another.

First of all, the Dragon Totem:
All it says is that they get Frightful Presence and what the save DC is. But what is the range and effect?
I assume it is identical to that of a True Dragon (4 or less HD, panicked for 4d6 rounds, 5+ HD, shaken for 4d6 rounds), but I wanted to check what the local posters think.

Second, the Eagle Totem:
I hope I am no the only one who thinks this is underpowered.
You lost fast movement and trap sense, and instead get a +2 on Spot and a sub-par feat.
Woo.

If anyone has nay ideas for how to boost up the Eagle Totem a little, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Thomar_of_Uointer
07-14-07, 05:13 PM I have been looking at the Totem Barbarian Variant rule set (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVar iantTotemBarbarian))
And I am a bit confused on one of them and looking for balance help on another.

First of all, the Dragon Totem:
All it says is that they get Frightful Presence and what the save DC is. But what is the range and effect?
I assume it is identical to that of a True Dragon (4 or less HD, panicked for 4d6 rounds, 5+ HD, shaken for 4d6 rounds), but I wanted to check what the local posters think.

Second, the Eagle Totem:
I hope I am no the only one who thinks this is underpowered.
You lost fast movement and trap sense, and instead get a +2 on Spot and a sub-par feat.
Woo.

If anyone has nay ideas for how to boost up the Eagle Totem a little, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help.

Frightful Presence (Ex)

This special quality makes a creature’s very presence unsettling to foes. It takes effect automatically when the creature performs some sort of dramatic action (such as charging, attacking, or snarling). Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken. Actions required to trigger the ability are given in the creature’s descriptive text. The range is usually 30 feet, and the duration is usually 5d6 rounds. This ability affects only opponents with fewer Hit Dice or levels than the creature has. An affected opponent can resist the effects with a successful Will save (DC 10 + ½ frightful creature’s racial HD + frightful creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to that same creature’s frightful presence for 24 hours.
That's what the SRD has to say.

Eagle totem could get evasion.
SilvercatMoonpaw
07-14-07, 08:08 PM Horse totem could also use a serious overhaul.

I don't know why Eagle totems don't get Fast Movement, it seems very "eagle soaring".

The current way Trap Sense is replaced for multiple totems bothers me. It's often traded for a feat, something that doesn't improve with level. It's not so much that Trap Sense isn't worth a feat or worth more than a feat, it means that the class then gains dead levels.
TwiddleStootch
07-18-07, 10:17 AM :bump:

Any further feedback?
TwiddleStootch
07-24-07, 01:58 PM One last :bump: before I let this thread die and go ahead and come up with my own wacky changes :D
Krusk
07-24-07, 11:02 PM EAgle totem could grant a bonus to jump checks. so you can soar like an eagle?
runestar
07-25-07, 08:43 AM Maybe have eagle totem grant +2 bonus to listen and spot checks at 1st lv, and this improves every few lvs? Not sure of what a reasonable progression might be, but perhaps you get another +2 bonus at 3rd lv and every 3 lvs thereafter? (To replace the loss of trap sense).
TwiddleStootch
07-25-07, 12:08 PM Seems like good ideas.

So maybe this:

They keep fast movement, replace Trap Sense with a Spot Bonus progression and maybe a Bonus on Jump checks at some point.
And perhaps they could treat Spot as a class skill.
runestar
07-25-07, 11:14 PM I am not sure what jumping has to do with eagles (though I admit it is probably the closest you can get without flight).
The_Hedgewizard
07-26-07, 01:31 AM In my opinion, you don't need to remove any of the standard babarian abilities when using totems. You can simply add them on (or perhaps just choose one, or the best, ability from the totem and add that on; that's how I would do it). Wizards is constantly designing warrior variants and PrCs but it rarely ever beefs them up any because they also require you to lose something else. Really, your barbarian is NOT going to be overpowered if you just add the totems on for free.

As for the eagle, making Spot a class skill and giving it Low-light Vision might make sense.
zephyrTR
07-26-07, 03:46 PM I found all these totems pretty lacklustre, tho the general idea was good. Clans of barbarians? SWEET.

Also, as I rarely use traps in my campaign, giving barbs trap sense wasn't a good way to balance them out against fighters, at least for me and my group. (That IS why they changed barbs from 3.0 to 3.5 if you didnt know. They also beefed HP and did a few other things)

So what I did is made up my own new clans, ALL of which have a 15 yard watered down frightful presence on completion of a 'special attack' (Save DC 10+intimidate mod or shaken for 1d4 rounds) which is given dependent on their clan. They tend to have to give up trap sense, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, in some cases their fast movement... I think this is a good idea since barbs are supposed to be frightening just by fighting them. They dont need to take an action to scream in your face to be demoralizingly vicious.

For instance Bear Clan barbs deal extra damage while pinning an opponent and is thus called Bear Hug.

Bull Clan barbs get to attack at half damage at the end of a bull rush
Lion Clan barbs can pin someone to the ground as per a grapple for 1 round after an overrun.

Cougar Clan barbs get move silently and hide and their frightful presence triggers on a successful suprise round attack.

Gorilla Clan barbs can make jump attacks as per their awesome climb speed (run up a tree, jump down and attack)

The rules are a little more specific and by lvl 8 they have all their special abilities. I think they're much better than the book, and especially if you have a group of friends who are reluctant to play barbs as opposed to fighters or rangers, this is a great incentive - not to mention campaign feature!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
TwiddleStootch 07-11-07, 01:20 PM	I have been looking at the Totem Barbarian Variant rule set (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVar iantTotemBarbarian)) And I am a bit confused on one of them and looking for balance help on another. First of all, the Dragon Totem: All it says is that they get Frightful Presence and what the save DC is. But what is the range and effect? I assume it is identical to that of a True Dragon (4 or less HD, panicked for 4d6 rounds, 5+ HD, shaken for 4d6 rounds), but I wanted to check what the local posters think. Second, the Eagle Totem: I hope I am no the only one who thinks this is underpowered. You lost fast movement and trap sense, and instead get a +2 on Spot and a sub-par feat. Woo. If anyone has nay ideas for how to boost up the Eagle Totem a little, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any help.
Thomar_of_Uointer 07-14-07, 05:13 PM	I have been looking at the Totem Barbarian Variant rule set (here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#barbarianVar iantTotemBarbarian)) And I am a bit confused on one of them and looking for balance help on another. First of all, the Dragon Totem: All it says is that they get Frightful Presence and what the save DC is. But what is the range and effect? I assume it is identical to that of a True Dragon (4 or less HD, panicked for 4d6 rounds, 5+ HD, shaken for 4d6 rounds), but I wanted to check what the local posters think. Second, the Eagle Totem: I hope I am no the only one who thinks this is underpowered. You lost fast movement and trap sense, and instead get a +2 on Spot and a sub-par feat. Woo. If anyone has nay ideas for how to boost up the Eagle Totem a little, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any help. Frightful Presence (Ex) This special quality makes a creature’s very presence unsettling to foes. It takes effect automatically when the creature performs some sort of dramatic action (such as charging, attacking, or snarling). Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken. Actions required to trigger the ability are given in the creature’s descriptive text. The range is usually 30 feet, and the duration is usually 5d6 rounds. This ability affects only opponents with fewer Hit Dice or levels than the creature has. An affected opponent can resist the effects with a successful Will save (DC 10 + ½ frightful creature’s racial HD + frightful creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to that same creature’s frightful presence for 24 hours. That's what the SRD has to say. Eagle totem could get evasion.
SilvercatMoonpaw 07-14-07, 08:08 PM	Horse totem could also use a serious overhaul. I don't know why Eagle totems don't get Fast Movement, it seems very "eagle soaring". The current way Trap Sense is replaced for multiple totems bothers me. It's often traded for a feat, something that doesn't improve with level. It's not so much that Trap Sense isn't worth a feat or worth more than a feat, it means that the class then gains dead levels.
TwiddleStootch 07-18-07, 10:17 AM	:bump: Any further feedback?
TwiddleStootch 07-24-07, 01:58 PM	One last :bump: before I let this thread die and go ahead and come up with my own wacky changes :D
Krusk 07-24-07, 11:02 PM	EAgle totem could grant a bonus to jump checks. so you can soar like an eagle?
runestar 07-25-07, 08:43 AM	Maybe have eagle totem grant +2 bonus to listen and spot checks at 1st lv, and this improves every few lvs? Not sure of what a reasonable progression might be, but perhaps you get another +2 bonus at 3rd lv and every 3 lvs thereafter? (To replace the loss of trap sense).
TwiddleStootch 07-25-07, 12:08 PM	Seems like good ideas. So maybe this: They keep fast movement, replace Trap Sense with a Spot Bonus progression and maybe a Bonus on Jump checks at some point. And perhaps they could treat Spot as a class skill.
runestar 07-25-07, 11:14 PM	I am not sure what jumping has to do with eagles (though I admit it is probably the closest you can get without flight).
The_Hedgewizard 07-26-07, 01:31 AM	In my opinion, you don't need to remove any of the standard babarian abilities when using totems. You can simply add them on (or perhaps just choose one, or the best, ability from the totem and add that on; that's how I would do it). Wizards is constantly designing warrior variants and PrCs but it rarely ever beefs them up any because they also require you to lose something else. Really, your barbarian is NOT going to be overpowered if you just add the totems on for free. As for the eagle, making Spot a class skill and giving it Low-light Vision might make sense.
zephyrTR 07-26-07, 03:46 PM	I found all these totems pretty lacklustre, tho the general idea was good. Clans of barbarians? SWEET. Also, as I rarely use traps in my campaign, giving barbs trap sense wasn't a good way to balance them out against fighters, at least for me and my group. (That IS why they changed barbs from 3.0 to 3.5 if you didnt know. They also beefed HP and did a few other things) So what I did is made up my own new clans, ALL of which have a 15 yard watered down frightful presence on completion of a 'special attack' (Save DC 10+intimidate mod or shaken for 1d4 rounds) which is given dependent on their clan. They tend to have to give up trap sense, uncanny dodge, improved uncanny dodge, in some cases their fast movement... I think this is a good idea since barbs are supposed to be frightening just by fighting them. They dont need to take an action to scream in your face to be demoralizingly vicious. For instance Bear Clan barbs deal extra damage while pinning an opponent and is thus called Bear Hug. Bull Clan barbs get to attack at half damage at the end of a bull rush Lion Clan barbs can pin someone to the ground as per a grapple for 1 round after an overrun. Cougar Clan barbs get move silently and hide and their frightful presence triggers on a successful suprise round attack. Gorilla Clan barbs can make jump attacks as per their awesome climb speed (run up a tree, jump down and attack) The rules are a little more specific and by lvl 8 they have all their special abilities. I think they're much better than the book, and especially if you have a group of friends who are reluctant to play barbs as opposed to fighters or rangers, this is a great incentive - not to mention campaign feature!