Training for feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Training for feats [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Archangel62
11-04-05, 01:44 AM A friend and I came up with the idea of being able to train for additional feats. The rule states that you must find someone of at least 4 levels higher to train you and that you have to pay a certain amount to get the person to train you, current price rig looks like this

1000 base
1000 per stat at 10 and up (Meaning 11=2000 12=3000 etc.)
1/2 cost of every prerequest feat
2000 every base attack bonus
1000 per spell level
1000 per skill rank
1000 racial trait

It also doesn't garauntee success, you actually have to do a set of checks to get the feat, if not you have to pay and try again. It ends up being pretty balanced as far as we've tested, anyone else that wants to is free to try this.
tharivol266
11-05-05, 07:34 PM so a feat w/o a pre req costs 1000 gp and one that requires a certain level of a caster say requires 1500gp and that they meet the pre req? or say if it was cl of 6 then ud need 7k?

ironically i just had this same idea and came here to see if anyone had already posted rules for it. :)
lostone
11-06-05, 10:30 AM What about the time involved in learning it? I would say as a rough basis to start it should be 1 week of intensive training (at least 8 hours every day) for every 1000gp the feat costs for an extraordinary feat. If the training is not so intensive, IE done in the evenings as time permits after traveling for a day then it takes a month per 1000gp. Only extraordinary feats can be learned in this way, supernatural and spell-like ability related feats can't be trained in this way. In general metamagic and psionic feats may be learned in this way, but some may not be, DM call.
Kalis Atrud
11-06-05, 11:55 AM I don't see why there is a need for this, unless you are giving out too much gold and want a money sink. PC's are elite characters, shouldn't any fighter with an above average wisdom or intelligence be able to figure out what she is trying to learn on her own? I mean, obviously first person to learn the feat didn't have a person teaching them the technique, and if there is a relationship like power attack > cleave > great cleave, it seems to me like any real warrior who knows one could piece together the next step with a bit more battle experience.

"I can get a lot of momentum by sacrificing accuracy, but if only there was some way to keep the momentum going when I kill him to attack another opponent."

1 level later(level 2 fight bonus feat)

"Eureka, I finally understand how to keep my momentum going after knocking an enemy down, even if I don't sacrifice my accuracy. I can only hit one extra person right now, but I'm sure as my skills improve I will be able to get in more hits if I kill him."

Also it seems like a time sink, what if they are level 16, the fighter wants to learn a feat, but needs to find a level 20+ character teach him. Level 10 characters are supposed to be rare, level 20 characters should be almost non existant.

Also what about the poor level 20 warrior who taught our previous level 16 character, who levels up to level 21 and wants to learn a feat. It's going to take him forever find a level 25 character, not only because they are rare, but also because the characters don't have access to the concept of levels. What if he wastes 3 months training under a level 23 character, while the rest of the party waits, and the BBEG destroys half the world/solar system/galaxy/universe? He never learns the technique blames himself, and commits suicide. Then rolls up a new character that has the exact same stats(assuming point buy), skills, but has already learned the feat from a level 25 character. Also his previous character said in his will, that all his gear goes to his replacement in the party.
lostone
11-06-05, 01:10 PM So maybe some additional mechanic for teaching yourself? Maybe it costs twice as much, in this case the money is spent on gear/components/whatever to train yourself.
Archangel62
11-06-05, 03:11 PM The idea is if you want to learn feats in addition to the ones you would get normally, IE if you want to learn MORE feats you can train for them. So the fighter can, instead of getting more weapons or stuff like that learn more combat techniques

Tactical feats cannot be trained for.
lostone
11-06-05, 03:20 PM Tactical feats cannot be trained for.Why not? Those are just more advanced fighting techniques, such as things SWAT might train for as a real world example.
Archangel62
11-06-05, 04:10 PM Main reason is sort of a balancing act, some of the tactical feats can be argued for training but considering the bonuses that some of them grant made them unequal to others and thus properly coming up with a cost for tactical feats was becoming frustrating. Feel free to modify it, we did it mostly to avoid having to price out each individual tactical feat.
lostone
11-07-05, 11:38 AM If you want to keep things balanced, then this system is not the way to go. WotC attempts to balance all classes as much as they can, and how many feats they get figures into that. If suddenly every class has more or less equal access to additional feats, you'll find the power levels skewing towards specific classes more (the ones that get the least amount of feats, like the spellcasters).

What's to stop a character from training to get the feat Roll With It as many times as possible? That would be ~12,000gp each time it is taken if I'm understanding your table right. The only reason to introduce a system like this is if you are in a world where magic items are extremely rare and not for sale so you need to burn off cash, OR if you are giving out far more treasure than the book calls for. Assuming the latter, what is to stop the above character from training Roll With It 50x? 600,000 gp is feasible in a monty haul game. 100/- DR is nothing to sniff at, combine that with a high SR magic item and you find yourself difficult to kill in non-epic levels.
Archangel62
11-07-05, 09:26 PM It started out as something for a homebrew setting that I run, it is also usable as a way for characters who aren't interested in magic items to instead train for more techniques.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Archangel62 11-04-05, 01:44 AM	A friend and I came up with the idea of being able to train for additional feats. The rule states that you must find someone of at least 4 levels higher to train you and that you have to pay a certain amount to get the person to train you, current price rig looks like this 1000 base 1000 per stat at 10 and up (Meaning 11=2000 12=3000 etc.) 1/2 cost of every prerequest feat 2000 every base attack bonus 1000 per spell level 1000 per skill rank 1000 racial trait It also doesn't garauntee success, you actually have to do a set of checks to get the feat, if not you have to pay and try again. It ends up being pretty balanced as far as we've tested, anyone else that wants to is free to try this.
tharivol266 11-05-05, 07:34 PM	so a feat w/o a pre req costs 1000 gp and one that requires a certain level of a caster say requires 1500gp and that they meet the pre req? or say if it was cl of 6 then ud need 7k? ironically i just had this same idea and came here to see if anyone had already posted rules for it. :)
lostone 11-06-05, 10:30 AM	What about the time involved in learning it? I would say as a rough basis to start it should be 1 week of intensive training (at least 8 hours every day) for every 1000gp the feat costs for an extraordinary feat. If the training is not so intensive, IE done in the evenings as time permits after traveling for a day then it takes a month per 1000gp. Only extraordinary feats can be learned in this way, supernatural and spell-like ability related feats can't be trained in this way. In general metamagic and psionic feats may be learned in this way, but some may not be, DM call.
Kalis Atrud 11-06-05, 11:55 AM	I don't see why there is a need for this, unless you are giving out too much gold and want a money sink. PC's are elite characters, shouldn't any fighter with an above average wisdom or intelligence be able to figure out what she is trying to learn on her own? I mean, obviously first person to learn the feat didn't have a person teaching them the technique, and if there is a relationship like power attack > cleave > great cleave, it seems to me like any real warrior who knows one could piece together the next step with a bit more battle experience. "I can get a lot of momentum by sacrificing accuracy, but if only there was some way to keep the momentum going when I kill him to attack another opponent." 1 level later(level 2 fight bonus feat) "Eureka, I finally understand how to keep my momentum going after knocking an enemy down, even if I don't sacrifice my accuracy. I can only hit one extra person right now, but I'm sure as my skills improve I will be able to get in more hits if I kill him." Also it seems like a time sink, what if they are level 16, the fighter wants to learn a feat, but needs to find a level 20+ character teach him. Level 10 characters are supposed to be rare, level 20 characters should be almost non existant. Also what about the poor level 20 warrior who taught our previous level 16 character, who levels up to level 21 and wants to learn a feat. It's going to take him forever find a level 25 character, not only because they are rare, but also because the characters don't have access to the concept of levels. What if he wastes 3 months training under a level 23 character, while the rest of the party waits, and the BBEG destroys half the world/solar system/galaxy/universe? He never learns the technique blames himself, and commits suicide. Then rolls up a new character that has the exact same stats(assuming point buy), skills, but has already learned the feat from a level 25 character. Also his previous character said in his will, that all his gear goes to his replacement in the party.
lostone 11-06-05, 01:10 PM	So maybe some additional mechanic for teaching yourself? Maybe it costs twice as much, in this case the money is spent on gear/components/whatever to train yourself.
Archangel62 11-06-05, 03:11 PM	The idea is if you want to learn feats in addition to the ones you would get normally, IE if you want to learn MORE feats you can train for them. So the fighter can, instead of getting more weapons or stuff like that learn more combat techniques Tactical feats cannot be trained for.
lostone 11-06-05, 03:20 PM	Tactical feats cannot be trained for.Why not? Those are just more advanced fighting techniques, such as things SWAT might train for as a real world example.
Archangel62 11-06-05, 04:10 PM	Main reason is sort of a balancing act, some of the tactical feats can be argued for training but considering the bonuses that some of them grant made them unequal to others and thus properly coming up with a cost for tactical feats was becoming frustrating. Feel free to modify it, we did it mostly to avoid having to price out each individual tactical feat.
lostone 11-07-05, 11:38 AM	If you want to keep things balanced, then this system is not the way to go. WotC attempts to balance all classes as much as they can, and how many feats they get figures into that. If suddenly every class has more or less equal access to additional feats, you'll find the power levels skewing towards specific classes more (the ones that get the least amount of feats, like the spellcasters). What's to stop a character from training to get the feat Roll With It as many times as possible? That would be ~12,000gp each time it is taken if I'm understanding your table right. The only reason to introduce a system like this is if you are in a world where magic items are extremely rare and not for sale so you need to burn off cash, OR if you are giving out far more treasure than the book calls for. Assuming the latter, what is to stop the above character from training Roll With It 50x? 600,000 gp is feasible in a monty haul game. 100/- DR is nothing to sniff at, combine that with a high SR magic item and you find yourself difficult to kill in non-epic levels.
Archangel62 11-07-05, 09:26 PM	It started out as something for a homebrew setting that I run, it is also usable as a way for characters who aren't interested in magic items to instead train for more techniques.