Trip modifiers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Trip modifiers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gold Katana
07-05-05, 02:01 PM My group has been dissatisfied with the Trip rules since they came out. Why? Because, after the initial unarmed melee touch attack, a 20th level monk is no more likely to successfully trip than a 1st level sorceror. We are debating the following changes to the Trip rules:

After the successful unarmed melee touch attack, the opponents make opposed STR v STR/DEX checks, modified as normal with a) an additional modifier of BAB to both sides or b) bonus to the tripper equal to the amount he exceeded the AC on the initial roll.

We are interested in hearing feedback from the board. Thanks.
BelZoradon
07-05-05, 05:06 PM i kinda like option b... might just have to play around with that for a while on my free time
Gold Katana
07-05-05, 05:36 PM Thanks, that would be appreciated.
madigar
07-08-05, 11:56 PM I had considered adding initiative mods to a trip attempt, post touch att.

I like both options presented above, though. I, as well, will have to give this some thought and test where/when able.
stevelabny
07-27-05, 04:21 PM be careful with overpowering trip.
getting tripped is REALLY bad, because standing up provokes an AOO
if the monk is a member of a group, the bad guy can be surrounded and provoke a ton of A00s

Any trip-monk-ey will have Improved Trip, which gives a +4 to that secondary roll. They will also do what they can to increase their STR.
And just as they know NOT to trip 4 legged creatures, or creatures that are larger than they are, they also should be wary of trying it on obviously uber-strong foes.
Also, certain weapons give a bonus to trip.
A monk might use a kama to make a trip, which provides another +2
But a monk trying to trip the average wizard or rogue is probably at +7 or +8 to the second roll ( +4, +2 +STR differetial)
Which gives a 35-40% chance of the trip working. And since trip is so potentially deadly. (Bonus to hit prone character, move action to stand). Thats good enough. Magic items to boost STR, a weapon that gives +4 to trip or a simple scroll/potion of ENLARGE person... can up to the second roll quite a bit.

Giving any other modifiers to the roll is a mistake.
Gilean
07-28-05, 02:02 AM BAB to both sides sounds nice. It doesn't overpower monks who only have 3/4 BAB (but does help spiked chain trip reach critters...) and many monsters have a lot more BAB and HD than PCs do. Shouldn't be that imbalanced.
Gold Katana
07-28-05, 09:47 AM We're just a couple games into our new campaign and no tripping has yet occurred. When it does, though, we are going to add BAB's to both sides for the resolution. It seems like a fair solution and it is not overpowering trip, as the defendent gets to add in the same class of modifier. Some are trippers, some are trippees. :D
stevelabny
07-28-05, 04:06 PM actually, thinking about it more...the BAB thing HURTS the monk.

presuming opponents of the same level, it makes him more likely to trip the wizards (who he had the best chance of tripping anyway) and LESS likely to trip the fighter types.

the only place it helps is if you are trying to trip lower-level characters.
and if you're fighting characters that are that many levels lower than you, why do you really need to trip them anyway?

i think the original poster just didnt realize all the ways you can add to your trip modifier. EDIT: which of course, is me not noticing that the last reply was from the original poster. doh.
Gold Katana
07-28-05, 04:28 PM I still think it works out well. Fighters would be the least likely to be tripped as they spend the most time fighting.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gold Katana 07-05-05, 02:01 PM	My group has been dissatisfied with the Trip rules since they came out. Why? Because, after the initial unarmed melee touch attack, a 20th level monk is no more likely to successfully trip than a 1st level sorceror. We are debating the following changes to the Trip rules: After the successful unarmed melee touch attack, the opponents make opposed STR v STR/DEX checks, modified as normal with a) an additional modifier of BAB to both sides or b) bonus to the tripper equal to the amount he exceeded the AC on the initial roll. We are interested in hearing feedback from the board. Thanks.
BelZoradon 07-05-05, 05:06 PM	i kinda like option b... might just have to play around with that for a while on my free time
Gold Katana 07-05-05, 05:36 PM	Thanks, that would be appreciated.
madigar 07-08-05, 11:56 PM	I had considered adding initiative mods to a trip attempt, post touch att. I like both options presented above, though. I, as well, will have to give this some thought and test where/when able.
stevelabny 07-27-05, 04:21 PM	be careful with overpowering trip. getting tripped is REALLY bad, because standing up provokes an AOO if the monk is a member of a group, the bad guy can be surrounded and provoke a ton of A00s Any trip-monk-ey will have Improved Trip, which gives a +4 to that secondary roll. They will also do what they can to increase their STR. And just as they know NOT to trip 4 legged creatures, or creatures that are larger than they are, they also should be wary of trying it on obviously uber-strong foes. Also, certain weapons give a bonus to trip. A monk might use a kama to make a trip, which provides another +2 But a monk trying to trip the average wizard or rogue is probably at +7 or +8 to the second roll ( +4, +2 +STR differetial) Which gives a 35-40% chance of the trip working. And since trip is so potentially deadly. (Bonus to hit prone character, move action to stand). Thats good enough. Magic items to boost STR, a weapon that gives +4 to trip or a simple scroll/potion of ENLARGE person... can up to the second roll quite a bit. Giving any other modifiers to the roll is a mistake.
Gilean 07-28-05, 02:02 AM	BAB to both sides sounds nice. It doesn't overpower monks who only have 3/4 BAB (but does help spiked chain trip reach critters...) and many monsters have a lot more BAB and HD than PCs do. Shouldn't be that imbalanced.
Gold Katana 07-28-05, 09:47 AM	We're just a couple games into our new campaign and no tripping has yet occurred. When it does, though, we are going to add BAB's to both sides for the resolution. It seems like a fair solution and it is not overpowering trip, as the defendent gets to add in the same class of modifier. Some are trippers, some are trippees. :D
stevelabny 07-28-05, 04:06 PM	actually, thinking about it more...the BAB thing HURTS the monk. presuming opponents of the same level, it makes him more likely to trip the wizards (who he had the best chance of tripping anyway) and LESS likely to trip the fighter types. the only place it helps is if you are trying to trip lower-level characters. and if you're fighting characters that are that many levels lower than you, why do you really need to trip them anyway? i think the original poster just didnt realize all the ways you can add to your trip modifier. EDIT: which of course, is me not noticing that the last reply was from the original poster. doh.
Gold Katana 07-28-05, 04:28 PM	I still think it works out well. Fighters would be the least likely to be tripped as they spend the most time fighting.