tumble check variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

tumble check variant [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
deathbane
03-31-06, 06:27 PM It only takes a 15 dc to tumble up to someone. My problem with this is that a level 5 character with 8 ranks in tumble, +4 modifier for dex, and skill focus for +3 gets a +15 total bonus so that means this level five character can tumble up to my epic character even one with reach if he is large or huge and get a chance to attack. I want a way to make it harder depending on the other character's level or bab. No level 5 character should be able to get that close to an epic level character by tumbling barring a miracle, but I have not been able to think of a way to fix it
Krug_the_smasher
03-31-06, 06:55 PM Ummm, well, im taking this off the top of my head, but make the monster do an attack, and if the tumble check beats that, he has succesfully evaded the attack. If he doesnt beat it, then he gets hit, and you roll damage.
deathbane
03-31-06, 08:39 PM Ummm, well, im taking this off the top of my head, but make the monster do an attack, and if the tumble check beats that, he has succesfully evaded the attack. If he doesnt beat it, then he gets hit, and you roll damage.
The point of tumbling is to not get attacked, but you gave me an idea.
The monster/opponent's attack bonus(bab+wpn bonus+ability modifier+etc) is the dc. If the tumble check beats this then there is no attack, but if it does not then the monster/enemy gets an AOO.
starfire311
03-31-06, 10:02 PM the point of the tumble check is to see if you are able to move without provoking an AoO. This has nothing to do with the attacker this has to do with the characters ability to be able to move without leaving himself open, kinda like concentration, the DC isn't set by the attacker.
allenchan
03-31-06, 10:08 PM Opposed tumble checks arent that uncommon. I saw a variant I really liked that involved the "defender" of the tumble sacrificing one of their AoOs for the round to make it an opposed check, vs to-hit. SO, he's actively tryinf to prevent the other char from moving. The tumbler would normally still have a slight advantage. level 5 fighter = +11 to hit, probably.
FlameLover
03-31-06, 10:14 PM Changing tumble so that it replaces your AC during an AoO would work ok I think. It would change the intent a bit, but it'd also make when you take AoOs more strategic because you can just let the rogue through, waste an attempt trying to, or actually succeeding.
deathbane
03-31-06, 11:56 PM the point of the tumble check is to see if you are able to move without provoking an AoO. This has nothing to do with the attacker this has to do with the characters ability to be able to move without leaving himself open, kinda like concentration, the DC isn't set by the attacker.
If you are trying to get past someone then that would make more sense but the people I play with use it to get up to a character or inside the reach of a larger character without provoking an AoO, so I guess my variant could still be used if you are using tumble to attack someone instead of getting by that person.
starfire311
04-01-06, 01:00 PM If you are trying to get past someone then that would make more sense but the people I play with use it to get up to a character or inside the reach of a larger character without provoking an AoO, so I guess my variant could still be used if you are using tumble to attack someone instead of getting by that person.

that is exactly what tumbling is for... it shows a character is agile/quick enough to move without leaving himself open to attacks of oppurtunity.
The DC for beinng able to move without letting down your gaurd was set at DC 15. some people think that is too low other think it is fine, but IMO this DC should not be affect by what it is you are leaving yourself open to... It just has worse consequnces to leave yourself open to a dragon than a kobold.
Bulletproof_Condom
04-02-06, 09:46 PM Here's twelve words to completely negate the highest Tumble bonus.

"I ready an action to attack him when he gets close enough."

It's just that simple. Plus if he botches the Tumble check, you get your readied attack and the AoO. Party.

No need to change the mechanics, just learn a bit more about them.
StruckingFuggle
04-02-06, 11:06 PM Here's twelve words to completely negate the highest Tumble bonus.

"I ready an action to attack him when he gets close enough."

It's just that simple. Plus if he botches the Tumble check, you get your readied attack and the AoO. Party.

No need to change the mechanics, just learn a bit more about them.

Really, that's not really all that good for negating AoOs, though.
mbeach90266
04-04-06, 11:39 AM Add +1 to the DC for each level difference. For most encounters, this will be neglibile, but a level 5 trying to tumble up to a level 20 will have a 30 DC (+15 levels in dc).
lilwhiterabbit
04-04-06, 12:40 PM Also dont forget two things the DC goes up +2 for every enemy after the first thats passed. Also that the player can only move at one-half speed. So a typical PC with a base speed of 30ft is only able to tumble up to 15ft.

LWR
Some_call_me_Tim
04-04-06, 01:38 PM No level 5 character should be able to get that close to an epic level character by tumbling barring a miracle, but I have not been able to think of a way to fix itI see your point, I see it a lot of this reasoning in complaints about tumbling. Ask yourself this, should a 1st-level commoner be able to five-foot step next to an epic level character without provoking? Or why should the possessor of a minor magic item like a handy haversack be able to retrieve and item without provoking from the 20th level character; or why should a simple concentration check to cast defensively not have a higher DC when next to an epic level character compared to a simple orc? Withdrawl allows anyone to avoid the AO for the first square. There are many feats that allow you avoid an AO for certain actions, let's see improved unarmed strike, improved trip, improved sunder, and improved bull rush all let you avoid the AO regardless of the level of the opponent. Yet I don't hear anyone say those feats should be fixed.

Provoking AOs are a result of the actions of the provoker not the person threatening. Basically, because of your advanced training you have learned how to perform the action without being distracted and letting your guard down.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
deathbane 03-31-06, 06:27 PM	It only takes a 15 dc to tumble up to someone. My problem with this is that a level 5 character with 8 ranks in tumble, +4 modifier for dex, and skill focus for +3 gets a +15 total bonus so that means this level five character can tumble up to my epic character even one with reach if he is large or huge and get a chance to attack. I want a way to make it harder depending on the other character's level or bab. No level 5 character should be able to get that close to an epic level character by tumbling barring a miracle, but I have not been able to think of a way to fix it
Krug_the_smasher 03-31-06, 06:55 PM	Ummm, well, im taking this off the top of my head, but make the monster do an attack, and if the tumble check beats that, he has succesfully evaded the attack. If he doesnt beat it, then he gets hit, and you roll damage.
deathbane 03-31-06, 08:39 PM	Ummm, well, im taking this off the top of my head, but make the monster do an attack, and if the tumble check beats that, he has succesfully evaded the attack. If he doesnt beat it, then he gets hit, and you roll damage. The point of tumbling is to not get attacked, but you gave me an idea. The monster/opponent's attack bonus(bab+wpn bonus+ability modifier+etc) is the dc. If the tumble check beats this then there is no attack, but if it does not then the monster/enemy gets an AOO.
starfire311 03-31-06, 10:02 PM	the point of the tumble check is to see if you are able to move without provoking an AoO. This has nothing to do with the attacker this has to do with the characters ability to be able to move without leaving himself open, kinda like concentration, the DC isn't set by the attacker.
allenchan 03-31-06, 10:08 PM	Opposed tumble checks arent that uncommon. I saw a variant I really liked that involved the "defender" of the tumble sacrificing one of their AoOs for the round to make it an opposed check, vs to-hit. SO, he's actively tryinf to prevent the other char from moving. The tumbler would normally still have a slight advantage. level 5 fighter = +11 to hit, probably.
FlameLover 03-31-06, 10:14 PM	Changing tumble so that it replaces your AC during an AoO would work ok I think. It would change the intent a bit, but it'd also make when you take AoOs more strategic because you can just let the rogue through, waste an attempt trying to, or actually succeeding.
deathbane 03-31-06, 11:56 PM	the point of the tumble check is to see if you are able to move without provoking an AoO. This has nothing to do with the attacker this has to do with the characters ability to be able to move without leaving himself open, kinda like concentration, the DC isn't set by the attacker. If you are trying to get past someone then that would make more sense but the people I play with use it to get up to a character or inside the reach of a larger character without provoking an AoO, so I guess my variant could still be used if you are using tumble to attack someone instead of getting by that person.
starfire311 04-01-06, 01:00 PM	If you are trying to get past someone then that would make more sense but the people I play with use it to get up to a character or inside the reach of a larger character without provoking an AoO, so I guess my variant could still be used if you are using tumble to attack someone instead of getting by that person. that is exactly what tumbling is for... it shows a character is agile/quick enough to move without leaving himself open to attacks of oppurtunity. The DC for beinng able to move without letting down your gaurd was set at DC 15. some people think that is too low other think it is fine, but IMO this DC should not be affect by what it is you are leaving yourself open to... It just has worse consequnces to leave yourself open to a dragon than a kobold.
Bulletproof_Condom 04-02-06, 09:46 PM	Here's twelve words to completely negate the highest Tumble bonus. "I ready an action to attack him when he gets close enough." It's just that simple. Plus if he botches the Tumble check, you get your readied attack and the AoO. Party. No need to change the mechanics, just learn a bit more about them.
StruckingFuggle 04-02-06, 11:06 PM	Here's twelve words to completely negate the highest Tumble bonus. "I ready an action to attack him when he gets close enough." It's just that simple. Plus if he botches the Tumble check, you get your readied attack and the AoO. Party. No need to change the mechanics, just learn a bit more about them. Really, that's not really all that good for negating AoOs, though.
mbeach90266 04-04-06, 11:39 AM	Add +1 to the DC for each level difference. For most encounters, this will be neglibile, but a level 5 trying to tumble up to a level 20 will have a 30 DC (+15 levels in dc).
lilwhiterabbit 04-04-06, 12:40 PM	Also dont forget two things the DC goes up +2 for every enemy after the first thats passed. Also that the player can only move at one-half speed. So a typical PC with a base speed of 30ft is only able to tumble up to 15ft. LWR
Some_call_me_Tim 04-04-06, 01:38 PM	No level 5 character should be able to get that close to an epic level character by tumbling barring a miracle, but I have not been able to think of a way to fix itI see your point, I see it a lot of this reasoning in complaints about tumbling. Ask yourself this, should a 1st-level commoner be able to five-foot step next to an epic level character without provoking? Or why should the possessor of a minor magic item like a handy haversack be able to retrieve and item without provoking from the 20th level character; or why should a simple concentration check to cast defensively not have a higher DC when next to an epic level character compared to a simple orc? Withdrawl allows anyone to avoid the AO for the first square. There are many feats that allow you avoid an AO for certain actions, let's see improved unarmed strike, improved trip, improved sunder, and improved bull rush all let you avoid the AO regardless of the level of the opponent. Yet I don't hear anyone say those feats should be fixed. Provoking AOs are a result of the actions of the provoker not the person threatening. Basically, because of your advanced training you have learned how to perform the action without being distracted and letting your guard down.