Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Malchior 03-22-05, 08:18 PM	Has anyone used this variant in a campaign yet? I've always felt that the Sacred Exorcist PRC should be able to do this rather than turning undead. I was considering adding this variant to my campaign but with the following conditions: Only the following may Banish Planar: - Sacred Exorcist PRC (can no longer turn undead, only banish outsiders) - Any cleric with the Summoner Domain [Complete Divine] or Good domain (must choose to either turn only undead, or to banish outsiders) - Any cleric or Paladin with 10 or more ranks of K. Planes. (Must first make a K. Planes check against the outsider to see if they "know enough" to be able to banish it.)
Xeviat-DM 03-23-05, 12:48 AM	I dislike that it banishes on a success, and that it doesn't keep them gone for long. I would have it paralize or stun or turn when successful, and only banish when you have twice their HD. I offer it in my campaign as the domain abilities of the alignment domains (banish opposite alignment), but it hasn't been taken yet.
Malchior 03-23-05, 09:35 AM	Good point. I suppose I would tell players it works just like turning so that either the outsider flees, or, if it would have been enough to destory an undead creature, it banishes the outsider. Does anyone think this ability is too powerful? Should it be available to all clerics, or are the limits I proposed in my first post adequate?
Xeviat-DM 03-23-05, 02:59 PM	Does anyone think this ability is too powerful? Should it be available to all clerics, or are the limits I proposed in my first post adequate? I have a suggestion. First, do you feel the cleric is overpowered? If you do, remove Turn/Rebuke undead from the cleric class abilities. Add Turn Undead as the domain ability of Sun, and Rebuke as the domain ability of Death (move the death touch to destruction, move smite to war). Add planar banishment to the alignment domains. To make up for the small power loss, remove spontanious cure/inflict and add spontanious domain spell conversion. You'll find that clerics are now margionally more balanced, and much more unique. That's similar to what I've done in my campaign. I've added a lot more changes, but that's about all you can do without greatly disrupting your setting.
rbingham2000 03-23-05, 04:08 PM	I've been thinking about having Clerics keep their powers over the undead, and giving Paladins the Planar Banishment ability in order to deal with evil outsiders like demons and devils. I thought that this would help to keep the Paladin from being just a watered-down version of the cleric with better fighting abilities, and distinguish him or her as the guy (or gal) that you turn to when evil threatens the world from beyond the planes.
HailSpork 03-23-05, 05:49 PM	I like that... If I weren't using prestige paladins, I'd definately use that.
Patrick Draken-Korin 04-09-05, 06:18 PM	i've been working on modifying clerics and paladins so that there isn't so much emphisis on psotive energy = good and negative energy = evil. so i'm implementing the following 1) clerics gain the ability to turn all outsiders (or banish them, unless the cleric is on the outsiders home plane; in that case the outsider is destroyed) at first level, rather than the ability to turn or rebuke undead. there are certain modifiers on turning checks according to the cleric's alignment and it's deity's alignment. 2) there is the Turn Undead feat* (allows a creature that can turn outsiders to turn undead at an equivalent level, an equal number of times per day) 3) there is the Rebuke Undead feat* (allows a creature that can turn outsiders to rebuke undead at an equivalent level, an equal number of times per day) 4) paladins gain the cleric's turn outsiders ability at level 4, rather than the turn undead ability (or the rebuke undead ability for evil outsiders) 5) a cleric can choose between either the spontaneous "cure" vs "inflict" abilities (except for clerics of certain deities- an undeath domain deity requires "inflict", while a healing domain deity requires "cure") 6) the paladin's Lay On Hands ability is changed (for good and evil paladins)- same ability for all. the paladin can affect a number of hit points equal to it's charisma mod X it's paladin level. a paladin can affect hit points by either healing or wounding (both use positive energy**). undead can only be wounded. deathless (a subtype of undead) can only be healed (making deathless enemies scarier for the average paladin). 7) i'm trying to replace the remove disease/cause disease abilities for something of equal power, but maybe they should be scrapped to match the new versatility of Lay On Hands? Note: this uses the cleric system from eberron (any alignment of cleric for any alignment of deity). this system uses 5 types of paladins (honor, freedom, tyranny, slaughter, balance). this system accepts deathless BUT doesn't require undead (with or without the deathless type) to manifest a specific alignment (although vampires are chaotic non-good, and mummys are always lawful. this means there is no trait of undead that they are evil/good/etc) Note*: no creature can take both of these feats. note**: positive energy is both the enrgy of growth and change. growth is usually good (except for tumors) and change can be good or bad. therefore why should positive enrgy be only used for healing? (and i am going to make several attack spells based on positive energy (harm most creatures, severly harm undead, heal undead with the deathless subtype). any notes/comments? (i'm not going to change back the lay on hands ability without a good reason- it makes sense, and seems balanced to me).