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Crave 07-26-04, 01:46 AM	UBERGENERICS RECALL CHAPTER ONE: WELCOME! Welcome to Uber generics (the recall)! Uber generics started as an alternate D&D class system, allowing you to create a build for your character so specific that it matches him to the dot. The uber generics recall is an attempt to re-do all the original faults of uber generics, and expand the system to allow for more customization at less of a headache. Here is the basic rundown. You create your character using basic D20 rules, as written for all d20 books . After picking out your character's individual bells and whistles, you continue to picking your character’s class. However, this time instead of just picking the class out and taking your levels, you build it. You start with a skeleton of a class with no high points what so ever. Then after considering your character’s concept, you can begin to invest into character’s build. After deciding what abilities you want and what abilities you don’t want, you can continue onto playing the game with your newly created class. CHAPTER TWO: THE GENERIC CLASS! Uber generics starts with the aptly name "Base class". The base class is best described as the "skeleton" or "Blank canvas" of classes. It has a low base attack bonus, the minimum amount of bonus feats, no good saves and a d4 hit dice. Base Class = 0 point build BAB Fort Ref Will Abilities +0 +0 +0 +0 Bonus Feat +1 +0 +0 +0 Bonus Feat +1 +1 +1 +1 +2 +1 +1 +1 +2 +1 +1 +1 Bonus Feat +3 +2 +2 +2 +3 +2 +2 +2 +4 +2 +2 +2 +4 +3 +3 +3 +5 +3 +3 +3 Bonus Feat +5 +3 +3 +3 +6/1 +4 +4 +4 +6/1 +4 +4 +4 +7/2 +4 +4 +4 +7/2 +5 +5 +5 Bonus Feat +8/3 +5 +5 +5 +8/3 +5 +5 +5 +9/4 +6 +6 +6 +9/4 +6 +6 +6 +10/5 +6 +6 +6 Bonus Feat Skills: 10 skills (of choice) plus profession and craft Skills Per level: 2 + Int. mod (x4 at first level) Proficiency: All simple weapons Alignment: Any Hit Dice: D4 Everyone gets at the very least that much in there class. Once you've decided what you want for your character, and what you want to be able to do, you can begin painting your perfect class, and flesh it out as much as you desire. There are four very important factors in class design, and those things are abilities, feats, progressions and restrictions. We will begin with the basics, abilities.
Crave 07-26-04, 02:37 AM	CHAPTER THREE: ABILITIES! Abilities are the basic things all classes get. Base attack bonus, saves, skills and bonus feats. Every class gets them, every class has them. Its always suggested you buy these before buying your progressions, as many progressions have prerequisites based on your base abilities. Ability Name Here will be a short written description of the ability. Point Value: how many points it costs. this is where a expanded description of the ability will be written, telling you more exact information and detailing what you receive with the ability. Medium Base Attack bonus Your base attack bonus increases at a slightly faster rate. Point Value: One (1) You gain a medium base attack bonus, which is equal to ¾ your class level rounded down. this starts as a plus 0, and increases by 1 on the following levels: 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 16th, 18th, 19th, 20th. High base attack bonus Your base attack bonus is always optimal for your level. Point Value: Three (3) You gain a high base attack bonus, which is equal to your class level. Also, the "Combatant" abilities cost one less point. One save You are adpet at getting yourself out of certain sticky situations. Point Value: One (1) Choose a save (Fortitude, Will and Reflex). This save now progress by starting as a +2 and increasing by one on the following levels: 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 20th. Two Save You are better then most when it comes to avoiding a casualty. Point Value: Two (2) Choose two saves (Fortitude, Will and Reflex). Two of these saves now progress by starting as a +2 and increasing by one on the following levels: 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 20th. Three Save No attack is too difficult for you to overcome. Point Value: Four (4) All three of your saves now progress by starting as a +2 and increasing by one on the following levels: 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 20th. d6 You are slightly heartier then most Point Value: One (1) You roll a D6 to determine your hit points per level. d8 You have an average tolerance for pain (for an adventurer, anyway) Point Value: Two (2) You roll a D8 to determine your hit points per level. d10 You have an above average tolerance for pain. Point Value: Three (3) You roll a D10 to determine your hit points per level. d12 Your toughness is almost incomparable. Point Value: Four (4) You roll a D12 to determine your hit points per level. d20 You Have reach a legendary level of toughness. Point Value: Five (5) You roll a D20 to determine your hit points per level. Skillful You rely on skills a bit more then others. Point Value: One (1) You gain an additional 2 class skills (total of 12), and 4 + intelligence modifier skills per level Adept You are capable of mastering multiple techniques. Point Value: Three (3) You gain an additional 4 class skills (total of 14), and 6 + intelligence modifier skills per level Expert Your knowledge and craft peaks in more areas then most. Point Value: Five (5) You gain an additional 7 class skills (total of 21), and 8 + intelligence modifier skills per level Squire You have mastered multiple arts and training. Point Value: Three (3) You gain bonus feats at the following levels:1st, 2nd, 5th, 9th, 13th and, 17th Warrior You learn more tactics and abilities then most. Point Value: Four (4) You gain bonus feats at the following levels:1st, 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, 20th Master You never stop practicing any art you pick up, allowing you to constantly master more and more useful abilities. Point Value: One (6) You gain bonus feats at the following levels:1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 20th Light Combatant You have some knowledge in armed combat and armor. Point Value: One (1) Choose one of the following: You are proficient with light armor and 5 martial weapons/ OR any combination of martial and exotic weapons (every 2 martial weapons = one exotic) You are proficient with light shields and 5 martial weapons/ OR any combination of martial and exotic weapons (every 2 martial weapons = one exotic) You are proficient with all martial weapons Medium Combatant You have a good amount of knowledge in armed combat and armor. Point Value: Two (2) Choose one of the following: You are proficient with light and medium armor, light and heavy shields, and 5 martial weapons/ OR any combination of martial and exotic weapons (every 2 martial weapons = one exotic) You are proficient with light, medium and heavy armor, light and heavy shields You are proficient with light armor, light shields, and all martial weapons Heavy Combatant You Have mastered armed combat and armor. Point Value: Three (3) Your are proficient with all types of armor, all martial weapons and light and heavy shields. CREATOR'S [b]NOTES! Many players notice the option to build there own class as a way to max out every ability they find useful and become almost untouchable. They often do this by maxing out every ability they can, and taking all the best skills first. In order to stop this, the following rule is in place. BALANCING RULE! You cannot maximize all of your abilities. You are only able to have 2 abilities at there highest potential. However, if your hit dice is a d20, you cannot have any other abilities maximized. The rule only applies to: Base Attack Bonus, skills, Hit dice, bonus feats, and saves. Example: If you a High Base attack bonus, and a d12 hit dice, you cannot have 3 high saves, you cannot increase your skills per level past adept, and you cannot increase your bonus feats past warrior. However, if you have a d20 hit dice, you cannot have any of the previous abilities mentioned past that limit, nor can you increase your base attack bonus past a medium KNOWLEDGE SKILL! When choosing knowledge as a skill, you may receive 2 knowledge skills known instead of one. Example: Tim decided that he would spend one of his skills known on knowledge: Religion. Instead of that one skill known being taken up, he gains an additional skill known that can only be spent on a knowledge skill. POWER SKILLS! Power Skills: You may not take the following skills: Spot, Listen, Search, Hide, Move Silently, and Tumble. If you have the skillful ability, you may take two of these six skills. If you have adept, you may take four of the six skills. If you have expert, you may have access to all six skills. These skills are not automatically granted, but must be taken normally like any other skill. CLASS RULE! The system was created so that multiclassing would no longer be necessary, however players are allowed to multiclass in and out of classes freely as long as it does not affect any of there other classes abilities. If it does, they lose access to the abilities that are restricted, and can no longer take levels in that class as it has been built.
Crave 07-26-04, 02:56 AM	CHAPTER FOUR: PROGRESSIONS! Now that all the boring stuff is filled out, feel free to spend your extra points on progressions. Progressions are somewhat like abilities, in the sense that they do grow level to level, however progressions are special, because they provide extra abilities not every class is going to have. For example, not every class has spell casting, but every class has some kind of a will save. That is the difference between progressions and abilities. Name Value Benefit AC bonus when unarmored One Point You gain a bonus to your AC when unarmored. The ability increases as listed in chapter 5. *Arcane Student Two Points You gain up to 4th level arcane spells. *Arcane Teacher Four Points You Gain up to 6th level Arcane Spells. *Arcane Master Twelve Points You Gain up to 9th level Arcane Spells Bardic Music Two Points You gain the bardic music ability as listed in chapter 5 Body Two Points You gain the body feats as listed in chapter 5 Inspire Courage: One Point As the bard ability, starts at +1 at first level and increases at 8th, 14th and 20th. Prerequisites: Bardic music Crafter Two points You gain the craft feats as listed in chapter five. Prerequisites: ability to cast arcane, divine or channel psionics. Damage Reduction One Point You gain the damage reduction ability as listed in chapter 5 Prerequisites: High fortitude save, hit dice of d10 or higher. Cannot be taken with monk’s unarmored AC bonus *Divine Student Two Points You gain up to 4th level divine spells. *Divine Teacher Four Points You gain up to 6th level divine spells *Divine Master Twelve Points You gain up to 9th level divine spells Favored Enemy Two Points You gain the favored enemy progression listed in chapter 5 ☼ Psionic Student Two Points You gain up to 4th level psionic abilities ☼ Psionic Teacher Five Points You gain up to 6th level Psionic abilities ☼ Psionic Master Twelve or Eleven Points You gain up to 9th level Psionic abilities Rage Three Points You gain the rage ability as listed in chapter 5. At anytime it would increase in power or uses per day yours increases at a identical rate Slow fall Two Points as listed in chapter 5 Smite Progression Three points You gain the smite progression as listed in chapter 5 Sneak Attack Five Points You gain an sneak attack as listed in chapter 5. Trap sense One Point You gain trap sense at +1 third level and an additional +1 every 3 levels there after. Remove Disease One Point You gain the Remove disease ability. Check Chapter 5 for more details. Unarmored Speed Two Points You gain a bonus to your base land speed. This is gained as listed in chapter 5. Unarmed Strike Damage Two Points You gain the “Improved unarmed strike” feat at first level for free, and your unarmed strike’s damage increases as listed in chapter 5. Wild Shape Five Points You gain the wild shape ability as listed in chapter 5. Prerequisites: Knowledge nature and wild empathy. ☼ Maifesting rules will be available soon *For more information, go to the chapter 7, spells
Crave 07-26-04, 03:06 AM	CHAPTER FIVE: PROGRESSIONS (EXTENDED)! AC bonus when unarmored You gain a bonus to your armor class while you are unarmed (as per the monk ability). Your bonus starts at a = 0 and increases to +1 at 5th level. Then, it grows to a +2 at 10th level. At 15th level, it grows to a +3 and at 20th it grows to +4. This ability has all the same restrictions as the monk’s unarmored bonus and cannot be taken with the damage reduction ability. Body You gain the following feats as free bonus feats when you meet the requirements: Diamond body, Diamond Soul, Empty body, Purity of body, Still mind (If lawful), slippery mind (If chaotic), Wholeness of body and, Timeless body. Bardic Music You gain the Bardic Music ability (as per the bard.) You gain your first song and counter song at first level. Then you gain another song at 2nd, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th. You may select any song you meet the requirements form. Crafter Choose any of the type of caster progressions you have. When you gain the prerequisites for a craft feat, you gain that craft feat. For example, Gorden, the dwarven forger has up to 16tth level arcane casting. At first level, he gains scribe scroll (since he is a 1st level caster) at third level he gains brew potion and craft wondrous item. At 5th level, he gains craft magic arms and armor and craft wand. At 9th level he gains craft rod. At 12th level, he gains craft staff and ring. This can be taken as long as you have some kind of caster progression. If this is taken with your psionic progression, then you gain it as described above, replacing the normal craft feats with the psionic ones. Damage Reduction you gain Damage reduction (as per the barbarian ability).you gain 1/- at 7th level, and every three levels there after it improves by an extra 1/- (10th, 13th, 16th, 19th). All the normal restrictions given by this ability apply, and you cannot take the AC bonus while unarmored. Favored Enemy At first level, you gain the favored enemy ability (as per the ranger). You gain an additional favored enemy at 5th level, 10th, 15th and 20th level. This is identical to the ranger ability. Rage You gain the rage ability (as per the barbarian). You gain rage at 1st level and a extra rage at 4th level, and every four levels there after (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th). You gain Greater rage at 11th level, indomitable will at 14th, tireless rage at 17th and mighty rage at 20th. You still have all the restrictions a barbarian would have in rage, and are still take all the affects afterwards (exhaustion). Remove Disease: You gain the remove disease ability as per the paladin. You gain this at first level, and you may use it one extra time per say every five levels there after (5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th). Prerequisites: Any non-evil. Slow fall you gain the slow fall ability (as per the monk). This ability only works when wearing no armor or light armor. It starts at 4th level, where you gain slow fall 20ft. It increases another 10 feat every 2 levels there after (6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, and 20th). At 20th level, your slow fall progression is perfect, and you no longer need to worry about taking any damage as long as a wall is within arm’s reach. Smite Progression You gain the smite ability. This is similar to the paladins, but it is not restricted by alignment. First, look at your alignment. Choose one part of it (IE: Chaos, law, good and evil). First, you gain an aura around you of your chosen alignment (aura of good, chaos, law or evil). Then you gain the smite ability, except it applies to the opposite alignment. For example, Peaco is a chaotic evil character. He decided he chooses the smite ability and spends the proper amount of points. He chooses to use chaos with his smite progression. He now gains an aura of chaos, detect law, and smite lawful. This is identical to the paladin’s ability to detect evil, smite evil and have an aura of good except it applies to a different alignment. At 5th level and every five levels there after you gain an extra smite attempt (5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th). You can take this ability multiple times, each time affecting a different alignment. You cannot take this ability for an alignment you do have access to (IE: a lawful good character taking smite good and smite law is not possible) Sneak Attack You gain the Sneak Attack Ability (as per the rogue class). You gain your first 1D6 Sneak attack damage at first level, and every odd level after that (3rd, 5th, 7th, etc.) you gain an extra +1D6. Unarmored Speed You gain a bonus to your main land speed (as per the monk ability). It starts as a +0 and increases to a +10 at 3rd level. Every 3 levels after that, it increases another 10 feet (6th, 9th, 12th, 15th and 18th). This ability has all the same restrictions as the monk’s unarmored speed bonus. Unarmed Strike Damage You gain unarmed strike damage (as per the monk). You gain Improved un armed strike at first level, and deal 1d6 damage with your unarmed strike. At 4th level, you deal 1d8 damage. At 8th level, you deal 1d10 damage. At 12th level you deal 2d6 damage. At 17th level, you deal 2d8, and at 20th level you deal 2d10. All the restrictions that apply to the monk’s unarmed strike also apply to this one. Wild Shape You gain the wild shape ability (as per the druid). You gain your first wild shape ability at 5th level and it increases an extra 1 time per day at the following levels: 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th. At 5th level you can wild shape into any small and medium sized creature. At 8th level you can wild shape into any large animal. At 12th level, you can wild shape into a plant. At 15th level, you can wild shape into any huge sized shape. CHAPTER SIX: RESTRICTIONS! Restrictions are what give a character a bit more umph, flavor wise and class wise. Restrictions place you into win lose situations, where you gain a bit more power, but lose that power if you do something wrong. You can redeem yourself into your previous alignment as stated in the description of the restriction. Restrictions are different from feats, progressions and abilities because they only give you a few feats or special nick nacks to your class for the first couple of levels. Law bound Choose any two progressions you have. Those progressions both cost one point less. In return, your progressions are bound to lawful alighnments. Your character must remain in the alighnement while he has this restriction. All non-supernatural or magical abilities (such as unarmed strike, rage, damage reduction, sneak attack) do not leave when you lose your alighnment, but you can no longer progress in them. All supernatural and magical progressions (IE: Magic, smite, remove disease) leave when you change your alighnment. You can either regain your previous alignment and continue to progress, or, go to the opposite alignment and create a new class based on your change of heart. Nature Keeper You keep close to the mother of all beings, nature. All nature abilities cost one less point (IE: Wild shape, Divine casting (nature) and any other abilities the DM sees fit). You also gain trackless step at third, and resist nature's lure at 4th. You gain the druid's weapon and armor proficiencies. However, you can only take neutral alignments. Also, using any armor or weapons that are not on the druid’s lists of weapons and armor give you the same penalties as noted in the druid class description. (IE: wearing armor that isn’t druid approved, like heavy armor, makes it so that you can’t cast spells or wild shape for a day after taking off the armor.) If you leave your alighnment, you must return unless other options are available (made possible by your DM). Zealot of the gods: You gain the following paladin abilities: Divine Grace, Aura of courage and divine health. If you are evil, you still gain divine grace, but can choose between taking aura of despair (any non chaotic) or Debilitating aura (any non lawful). You still gain Divine health. These abilities are gained the same levels the paladin abilities of similar names are gained. However, in order to use and keep these abilities, you must remain within the same alignment of your god. All non-supernatural or magical abilities (such as unarmed strike, rage, damage reduction, sneak attack) do not leave when you lose your alighnment, but you can no longer progress in them. All supernatural and magical progressions (IE: Magic, smite, remove disease) leave when you change your alighnment. You can either regain your previous alignment and continue to progress, or, go to the opposite alignment and continue going on in your class using the opposite alignment, with the same restriction. (IE: if you went from evil to good, and you had smite good, you gain smite evil).
Crave 07-26-04, 03:23 AM	CHAPTER SEVEN: BONUS FEATS All of those included in Unearthed Arcana and the following: 6th sense: Having a heightened sense allows you to be more prepared for combat. You can add your wisdom modifier to your ac as per the monk ability. Prerequisites: The AC bonus when unarmored progression. Abundant step: As the monk ability. Prerequisites: +30 to speed when unarmored. Will save +7 Animal Companion: you gain an animal companion as per the druid ability. If you take this a second time, it counts at a -4 bonus as per the ranger. Camouflage: As the ranger ability. Prerequisites: 16 ranks in Hide Hide in plain Sight: As the ranger ability. Prerequisites: Camouflage 20 ranks in Hide Crippling Strike: As Rogue ability. Prerequisites: +5d6 to sneak attack damage Damage Reduction: As the barbarian ability. Prerequisites: Fortitude save +5 You can take this bonus feat multiple times, each time it stacks, and each time the Prerequisite increases as follows (Reduction #/- : Save bonus): 1/- : 5, 2/- : 7, 3/- : 8, 4/- : 10, 5/- : 11 Defensive roll: As rogue ability. Prerequisites: +7 to reflex saves Diamond body: As the monk ability. Prerequisites: +7 in all saves Diamond Soul: As monk ability of same name. Prerequisites: +8 in all saves, Diamond Body. Empty body: As the monk ability. Prerequisites: +11 in all saves Expert Fighting: You have been school book trained into combat. You add your intelligence bonus to your AC, as per the monk’s wisdom to ac using your intelligence modifier instead. Prerequisites: The AC bonus when unarmored progression. Fast Movement: You can move faster than most people. You gain an extra +10 to speed, as per the barbarian. You cannot take this feat multiple times, its affects do not stack, and you cannot take this with the unarmored bonus to speed progression. Flurry of blows: As the monk ability. Prerequisites: medium base attack bonus ONLY. Must be taken at first level. Special: this ability only works when wearing no armor. The flurry of blows feature works with unarmed strikes, and any 5 weapons you are proficient with (up to DM digression). Ki Strike (Adamantine): As the monk ability. Prerequisites: Unarmed strike damage 2d8, Ki strike (Magic) Ki strike (Alignment): As the monk ability. Prerequisites: Unarmed strike damage 1d10, Ki strike (Magic) Ki Strike (Magic): As the monk ability. Prerequisites: Unarmed strike damage 1d8 Lore: You gain the Lore ability, as per the lore master or bard (Bardic knowledge). Prerequisites: All knowledge skills. Nature Sense: +2 on Knowledge (Nature) and Survival Checks. Opportunist: As Rogue ability. Prerequisites: +7 BAB, Combat Reflexes Purity of body: As the monk ability. Prerequisites: Fortitude save of +4, Still mind Perfect self: As the monk ability. Prerequisites: +12 in all saves Rage: As the Barbarian ability. You may take this ability multiple times, each time you may use it one more time per day. Prerequisites: +1 BAB. If you want to take this feat an additional time, the prerequisites change to an additional +3 the first time, and an additional +4 each other time (so second time +4, and every extra time its another +4, so +8, +12, +16, and +20) Greater Rage: As the Barbarian ability. Prerequisites: +11 BAB, Rage Indomitable Will: As the Barbarian ability Prerequisites: +14 BAB, Greater Rage Tireless Rage: As the Barbarian ability Prerequisites: +17 BAB, Greater Rage Mighty Rage: as the barbarian ability. You gain rage one extra time per day. Prerequisites: +20 BAB, Greater Rage Remove disease: As paladin ability. Prerequisites: Any good. Resist Nature's Lure: As the druid ability of the same name. Prerequisites: Knowledge (Nature): 7 ranks. Skill mastery: As Rogue ability. Prerequisites: 13 Ranks in said skill Slippery Mind: As rogue ability. Prerequisites: +3 to will, any chaotic Sneak Attack: You gain the sneak attack abbility as the rogue. You gain a 2d6 sneak attack the first time you get the feat. Prerequisites: 4 Ranks in Hide and move silently. Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Each time, it adds an extra +2d6 to your sneak attack damage, but the prerequisits increase an extra 4 ranks in each skill. IE: 2nd: 8 ranks, 3rd: 12 ranks, 4th: 16 ranks and 5th: 20 ranks. Special mount: As paladin ability. Prerequisites: 8 Ranks in ride Still mind: As monk ability. Prerequisites: Will save of +3, any lawful Swift Tracker: As the Ranger Ability. Prerequisites: Track, 11 ranks in survival. Timeless body: As the monk ability. Prerequisites: +10 in all saves Trackless Step: As the Druid and Ranger ability. Prerequisites: Wild Empathy +2, Divine spells (nature) caster level 2, or move silently 5. Wholeness of body: As the monk ability. Prerequisites: +5 in all saves Wild shape (animal): You can wild shape into any animal of your size one size lower. The shape must be equal to or less than your hit dice. You can do this once per day. As the druid ability. Prerequisites: Wild Empathy. Wild shape (humanoid): You can wild shape into any humanoid of your size and one size lower. The shape must be equal to or less then your hit dice. You can do this once per day. As the druid ability. Upon taking this feat, you also gain the "Thousand Face's ability" as per the druid. Prerequisites: 8 ranks in Disguise. Wild Shape (Plant): You can wild shape into any plant of your size and one size lower. The shape must be equal to or less than your hit dice. You can do this once per day. As the druid ability. Prerequisites: 8 ranks in knowledge (Nature). Wild Shape (Dragon): You can wild shape into any Dragon of your size and one size lower. The shape must be equal to or less than your hit dice. You can do this once per day. As the druid ability. This is counted aside from previous wild shape feats, in a category of its own. Prerequisites: 19 ranks in knowledge (Arcana). Wild Shape (Elemental): You can wild shape into any elemental of your size and one size lower. The shape must be equal to or less than your hit dice. You can do this once per day. As the druid ability. This is counted aside from previous wild shape feats, in a category of its own. Prerequisites: 19 ranks in knowledge (The planes). Wild shape (Tiny): You can wild shape into a tiny sized version of any previous wild shape ability you may have. You gain wild shape one additional time per day. Prerequisites: Ability to wild shape. Wild shape (Large): You can wild shape into a large sized version of any previous wild shape ability you may have. You gain wild shape one additional time per day. Prerequisites: Ability to wild shape. Wild shape (Huge): You can wild shape into a huge sized version of any previous wild shape ability you may have. You gain wild shape one additional time per day. Prerequisites: Ability to wild shape. Extra wild shape: You can wild shape 2 more times per day. Prerequisites: the ability to wild shape. Woodland Stride: As the Druid and Ranger ability. Prerequisites: Wild Empathy +2 or Divine spells (nature) caster level 2 Venom Immunity: You are imune to all Poisons. Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature): 6 ranks, fortitude: +3
Crave 07-26-04, 04:58 AM	CHAPTER EIGHT: SPELLS! Time for the almost final chapter folks, spells! Now spells are very interesting in Uber generics. Spells start out in two categories, then branch into another two, then branch into three more. Here is how the branches work. Arcane -Wizard + -Wise + -Studious -Sorcery + -Charismatic + -Wise Divine -Belief/Religious + -Wise + -Studious + -Charismatic -Nature + -Wise + -Charismatic Casting Types: Casting types determine how your character casts their spells. This includes bonus feats given to you, what spell lists you choose from, and what ability scores you can use to cast your spells. Arcane: To choose arcane magic means to choose spells from the sorcerer/wizard list of casting. This means that if you choose arcane casting, your spells come from the Sorcerer/wizard spell list. Wizard: Casting spells under the Wizard branch is next to identical of that as the wizard class. They key difference between wizard casting and sorcerer casting is that wizard casting requires preparation and study. This means reading book over book, researching scripts and sorting through tome after tome to get a grasp as to what said spell means, and how to unlock its potential. Wizard casting is always prepared, but special situations may allow you to spontaneously cast a spell. But it always requires you to carry a spell book or to have the spells memorized. Sorcery: Sorcerer casting is the manipulation of ones self to manipulate that which is outside. It requires deep inner potential, either from blood lines, a way with ward, a born magical gift or Zen like potential. Sorcery never requires preparation and is always cast on the fly. Also, sorcery allows you to cast more spells then a wizard of equal power, all though it takes you longer to get the spells. You also do not know as many spells as the wizard does. However, since your spells are cast on the fly you can prepare yourself for the unexpected, while the wizard has to predict what might happen ahead of time. Divine: To choose divine casting means to choose spells dependent upon which branch you go down. No matter where you go though, divine casting is always separated under two standards: Negative and positive energy. Belief/Religious: Belief or religious magic means to draw spells from a source you consider holy or divine, or something you hold a great deal of belief and truth in. For example, just like a crazed deity worshiper can go on praying day by day under the name of (insert god here), this new system allows you to cast divine spells for other reasons. Casting spells under the names of beliefs also exist, allowing you to have casters of beliefs similar to that of Daoism, Zen, Ki, Buddhism and Confucianism. It also allows occult casters, like worshippers of an epic hero, fanatic worshipers of powerful undead, dragon cults, followers of a court of law, the list goes on. With Divine spell casting becoming a bit broader, you can cast for reasons other then godly worship. Nature: Nature casting is casting under the name of Gaia or nature. This includes specific elements (Thunder, water, fire, wind, etc.), plants, animals, and anything else that falls under the natural. This type of casting however is not limited to just casting under the name of good pretty animals and summoning them to help you clean (For those of you who don’t get that reference, watch more television/Disney films). This can include the destruction of all that is unnatural. Certain Zealots of nature could consider man made objects to be sacrileges or unclean. These characters may want to go on an all out rampage to destroy all that is man made. Characters whose views are this off the deep end cast negative nature energy. This category also includes the wrath of nature (IE: thunder storms, volcanic eruption, tidal waves), evil druids (IE: Virgin sacrificing on top of mountain Indiana esq., Anti-druids) and many other destructive forces of nature. Casting scores: Casting scores describe what mental ability score you use to cast your spells and how it affects your character. If the DM thinks your character should use another ability score because of role play reasons, or because he thinks your being a total munchkin, he should have the right to change which score you use. The player however, if able to place a valid argument and the other players back him up, should be able to “Over ride” the “Veto” of the DM. Wise: Wise casting means to cast from your wisdom score. It implies your character learned how to cast under a philosophical or religious nature. Anyone can cast spells using there wisdom modifier. Studious: Studious casting means that you cast spells from extreme study. By learning from book to book or from being strictly taught, you have learned how to cast spells. Religious/belief and Wizard are the only two branches which allow you to cast spells studiously, however if your DM allows it, you may be able to choose another branch. Charismatic: Casting spells charismatically means that you cast spells using your charisma modifier. This often means you unlocked inner potential through your body, not your mind. Charismatic casters tend to be chaotic, because they did not need to go under the strict teachings of wise or studious casting. Charismatic casters fall under every category except for wizard, which forces study. It is highly suggested against allowing someone to cast spells as a wizard using charisma. Wizard Caster Progressions: Since wizards cast spells through spell books, they must learn, write and memorize the spells they cast. They are allowed to specialize in schools of magic (check the players hand books, sections on wizards and magic), granting them one extra bonus spells per day. Wizard casters learn 2 spells each level, which can be chosen from any spell level he is able to cast. When casting as a wizard, you always gain the scribe scroll feat for free at first level. 9th level casting: Level Spells Per day 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 3 1 x x x x x x x x 2 4 2 x x x x x x x x 3 4 2 1 x x x x x x x 4 5 3 2 x x x x x x x 5 5 3 2 1 x x x x x x 6 5 3 3 2 x x x x x x 7 6 4 3 2 1 x x x x x 8 6 4 3 3 2 x x x x x 9 6 4 4 3 2 1 x x x x 10 6 4 4 3 3 2 x x x x 11 6 4 4 4 3 2 1 x x x 12 6 4 4 4 3 3 2 x x x 13 6 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 x x 14 6 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 x x 15 6 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 x 16 6 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 x 17 6 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 4 18 6 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 19 6 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 20 6 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 1 6th level casting: Level Spells Per day 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 1 0 x x x x x 2 2 0 x x x x x 3 2 0 0 x x x x 4 2 1 0 x x x x 5 2 2 0 x x x x 6 2 2 1 0 x x x 7 2 2 1 0 x x x 8 2 2 2 0 x x x 9 2 2 2 1 0 x x 10 2 2 2 1 0 x x 11 2 2 2 2 0 x x 12 2 2 2 2 1 0 x 13 2 2 2 2 1 0 x 14 3 2 2 2 2 0 x 15 3 3 2 2 2 1 0 16 3 3 3 2 2 1 0 17 3 3 3 3 2 2 0 18 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 19 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 20 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 4th level casting: Level Spells Per day 1 2 3 4 1 x x x x 2 x x x x 3 x x x x 4 0 x x x 5 0 x x x 6 0 x x x 7 1 0 x x 8 1 0 x x 9 1 0 x x 10 1 1 0 x 11 1 1 0 x 12 1 1 1 x 13 1 1 1 0 14 1 1 1 0 15 2 1 1 1 16 2 2 1 1 17 2 2 2 1 18 3 2 2 1 19 3 3 3 2 20 3 3 3 3 (Note that when indicated 0 spells per day that means that you can cast only your bonus spells and any focused schools.) Sorcery Caster Progressions: Sorcerers can cast spells by drawing power from the inside. But since they can cast so many spells, they only know a few spells from there list. All Sorcerers have two tables, spells per day and spells known. Level Spells Per Day/Spells Known 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 1 5/4 3/2 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 2 6/5 4/2 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 3 6/5 5/3 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 4 6/6 6/3 3/1 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 5 6/6 6/4 4/2 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 6 6/7 6/4 5/2 3/1 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 7 6/7 6/5 6/3 4/2 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 8 6/8 6/5 6/3 5/2 3/1 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 9 6/8 6/5 6/4 6/3 4/2 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 10 6/9 6/5 6/4 6/3 5/2 3/1 x/x x/x x/x x/x 11 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/3 4/2 x/x x/x x/x x/x 12 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/3 5/2 3/1 x/x x/x x/x 13 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/3 4/2 x/x x/x x/x 14 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/3 5/2 3/1 x/x x/x 15 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/4 6/3 4/2 x/x x/x 16 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/4 6/3 5/2 3/1 x/x 17 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/4 6/4 6/3 4/2 x/x 18 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/4 6/4 6/3 5/2 3/1 19 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/4 6/4 6/3 6/3 4/2 20 6/9 6/5 6/5 6/5 6/4 6/4 6/4 6/3 6/3 6/3 Level Spells Per Day/Spells Known 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 1 2/2 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 2 3/3 0/2 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 3 3/3 1/3 x/x x/x x/x x/x x/x 4 3/4 2/3 0/2 x/x x/x x/x x/x 5 3/4 3/4 1/3 x/x x/x x/x x/x 6 3/4 3/4 2/3 x/x x/x x/x x/x 7 3/4 3/4 3/4 0/2 x/x x/x x/x 8 3/4 3/4 3/4 1/3 x/x x/x x/x 9 3/4 3/4 3/4 2/3 x/x x/x x/x 10 3/4 3/4 3/4 3/4 0/2 x/x x/x 11 3/4 3/4 3/3 3/4 1/3 x/x x/x 12 3/4 3/4 3/4 3/4 2/3 x/x x/x 13 3/4 3/4 3/4 3/4 2/4 0/2 x/x 14 4/6 3/4 3/4 3/4 3/4 1/3 x/x 15 4/6 4/4 3/4 3/4 3/4 2/3 x/x 16 4/6 4/5 4/4 3/4 3/4 2/4 0/2 17 4/6 4/5 4/5 4/4 3/4 3/4 1/3 18 4/6 4/5 4/5 4/5 4/4 3/4 2/3 19 4/6 4/5 4/5 4/5 4/5 4/4 3/4 20 4/6 4/5 4/5 4/5 4/5 4/5 4/4 4th level spells per day: Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 1 - - - - 2 - - - - 3 - - - - 4 0/2 - - - 5 0/2 - - - 6 1/3 - - - 7 1/3 - - - 8 1/4 0/2 - - 9 1/4 0/2 - - 10 1/4 1/3 - - 11 1/4 1/3 0/2 - 12 1/4 1/4 1/2 - 13 1/4 1/4 1/3 - 14 2/4 1/4 1/3 0/2 15 2/4 1/4 1/4 1/2 16 2/4 2/4 1/4 1/3 17 2/5 2/4 2/4 1/3 18 3/5 2/5 2/4 1/4 19 3/5 3/5 3/5 2/4 20 3/5 3/5 3/5 3/5 Divine: No matter what your using under divine, its always the same. Variant lists of spells per day and spells known can be created, but these are the current ones in place. Also, Divine caster's must prepare there spells (as stated in the magic secion of The Players Handbook) Unless an alternate list is chosen.) Beliefs/religion: Belief/religion characters always have to choose what type of energy they use, positive or negative. If they choose positive, they gain the ability to cast cure spells spontaneously by using a spell per day of appropriate level, and they can only turn undead. If they choose negative, then they can spontaneously cast any inflict spells by using a spell per day of appropriate level. Also, they can only rebuke undead. Both always come with Aura of (insert alignment). You also gain two domains that have some sort of relation to your belief or religion, but can only prepare spells from one of your selected domains. Nature: You get wild empathy for free. You can also spontaneously cast any summon nature’s ally spell of appropriate level. The spells on your spell list are from the druids spell list, but DMs should consider removing inflict spells and debuffs for good characters, or for evil characters, removing cure and buff spells. This option is up to the DM, but should be considered to add flavor to mechanics. 9th level casting with domains (Only selectable by belief/religion casters): Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1 3 1+1 - - - - - - - - 2 4 2+1 - - - - - - - - 3 4 2+1 1+1 - - - - - - - 4 5 3+1 2+1 - - - - - - - 5 5 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - - - - 6 5 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - - - - 7 6 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - - - 8 6 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - - - 9 6 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - - 10 6 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - - 11 6 5+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - - 12 6 5+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - - 13 6 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - - 14 6 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - - 15 6 5+1 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 - 16 6 5+1 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 - 17 6 5+1 5+1 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 2+1 1+1 18 6 5+1 5+1 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 2+1 19 6 5+1 5+1 5+1 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1 20 6 5+1 5+1 5+1 5+1 5+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 9th level casting (only selectable by nature casters): Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 1 3 1 - - - - - - - - 2 4 2 - - - - - - - - 3 4 2 1 - - - - - - - 4 5 3 2 - - - - - - - 5 5 3 2 1 - - - - - - 6 5 3 3 2 - - - - - - 7 6 4 3 2 1 - - - - - 8 6 4 3 3 2 - - - - - 9 6 4 4 3 2 1 - - - - 10 6 4 4 3 3 2 - - - - 11 6 5 4 4 3 2 1 - - - 12 6 5 4 4 3 3 2 - - - 13 6 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 - - 14 6 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 - - 15 6 5 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 - 16 6 5 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 - 17 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 2 1 18 6 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 3 2 19 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 3 3 20 6 5 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 6th level casting*: Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 1 2 - - - - - - 2 3 0 - - - - - 3 3 1 - - - - - 4 3 2 0 - - - - 5 3 3 1 - - - - 6 3 3 2 - - - - 7 3 3 2 0 - - - 8 3 3 3 1 - - - 9 3 3 3 2 - - - 10 3 3 3 2 0 - - 11 3 3 3 3 1 - - 12 3 3 3 3 2 - - 13 3 3 3 3 2 0 - 14 4 3 3 3 3 1 - 15 4 4 3 3 3 2 - 16 4 4 4 3 3 2 0 17 4 4 4 4 3 3 1 18 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 19 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 20 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 *if using domains (for belief/religion only) add an extra +1 spells per day, representing the domain spells. If not, do not change it. 4th level casting*: Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 1 - - - - 2 - - - - 3 - - - - 4 0 - - - 5 0 - - - 6 1 - - - 7 1 - - - 8 1 0 - - 9 1 0 - - 10 1 1 - - 11 1 1 0 - 12 1 1 1 - 13 1 1 1 - 14 2 1 1 0 15 2 1 1 1 16 2 2 1 1 17 2 2 2 1 18 3 2 2 1 19 3 3 3 2 20 3 3 3 3 *if using domains (for belief/religion only) add an extra +1 spells per day, representing the domain spells. If not, do not change it. 6 levels of spell casting:When chosing 6th level casting for Sorcerers and divine casters, they know the following amount of spells for each level: 0 Lv: 15 1st: 25 2nd: 35 3rd: 30 4th: 25 5th: 20 6th: 15 When 6th level characters choose spells, they should only pick from 4/5 schools, or 6 if they are weaker schools. 4 levels of spell casting: When choosing 4th level casting for sorcerers and divine casters, they know the following amount of spells. 1st: 20 2nd:10 3rd: 10 4th: 10 When picking spells, Characters with only up to 4 levels of casting should only have access to 3 schools, or 4 weaks ones. CHAPTER NINE: ADDING FLAVOR TO MECHANICS! Its important to keep flavor in mind when creating a generic class. Whats your characters reason behind having unarmed damage? Why can she use both divine and psionic abilities? Why does your character have a familiar without having spell casting? DMs and players a like should question the classes and powers the characters have before just handing it to them, and the following are some guidelines I find helpful. Always check spell lists If player builds a character that has a high base attack bonus, 4th level casting, and only takes offensive spells, he essentially becomes a tank. Before he runs into battle, he casts a fire ball, destroying all tiny foes in his way, and as the big guy comes running he continually casts lightning bolt until the big guy comes, where he then takes four swings at it using his super omega +5 great axe (two handed) Kinda hard to trump that kind of player, huh? Well remember, he can only casts offensive spells, but what led him to such an offensive attitude? Say he was an intense trainer in a sorcerers school, or perhaps he has an affinity to a certian energy type. No matter what the is, try balancing out his spell list. If he already has 1 or 2 powerful offensive spells, make sure the rest of his spells are much less powerful. Not to mention, if he wastes all his power in one battle, hes weaker in other sections. Its most likely such a type of player has few saves, low skills, or a low hit dice. This can come handy, since you can use this to your advantage. However, if you look at a player playing a pacifist, and he (some how) snuck "Fire" into his domains, you MAY want to check that character sheet again. Everything is up to the DM in the end, and its your job to make sure your players are playing balanced characters before you take them out to adventure. Other types of spell casting: There are other forms of spell casting, such as reserve spells, infusions and Device powers. You and your DM can work out alternate point values, spells lists and spells per day for said classes. Using the current system, you can have someone cast up to 6th level spells, and a d12 hit dice. Yeah, powerful combination. But why does the character have such a high hitdice? And why does the character have spells in the first place? A character who specializes in staying alive, using both spells and hit dice make sense, but why does he have spells in the first place? If a player has a maxed out hit dice, bab, or all high saves, you may wanna check and make sure his spell list isn't as powerful as his other abilities, but this doesn't give you the right to strip him of all powerful spells. Spell casting isn't fun if you can't blow someones head off with a single thought, or awaken the dead by chanting to your god. Whats with the sneak attack? If a player doesn't have the background, skills, or roleplay style of a character who would use sneak attack, there is no point for him having it. Period. If hes a fighter who fights for precision, quick deaths, and little clean up, sneak attack makes sense. If he hes the kind of character who doesn't fight, but glides in using many skills like Move silently, tumble, balance, spot and listen, then he also has the right to use sneak attack. However, if he doesn't do anything sneaky, he does not. Sorry kids.
Crave 07-26-04, 05:00 AM	CHAPTER NINE: CLASSES! Barbarian: 1/1 (3), One Save (1), d12 (4), Skillful (1), Medium Combatant (2 - 1), Rage (3), Damage Reduction (1), Trap sense (1) = 15 Bard: 3/4 (1), Two saves (2), d6 (1), Adept (3), light Combatant (1), Bardic Music (2), Inspire courage (1), Arcane Teacher (4) = 15 Fighter: 1/1 (3), one save (1), d10 (3), Master (6), Heavy Combatant (3 - 1) = 15 points Monk: 3/4 (1), Three saves (4), d8 (2), skillful (1), slowfall (2 - 1), unarmored speed (2), unarmored strike (2), AC bonus when unarmored (1 - 1) Body (2), Law bound/Less = 15 points Paladin: 1/1 (3), one save (1), d10 (3), Heavy Combatant (3 - 1), smite progression (3), Remove disease (1), Divine student (belief/religion) (2), Zealot of the gods = 15 Ranger: 1/1 (3), two saves (2), d8 (2), Medium Combatant (2 -1), Favored Enemy (2), Divine student (Nature) (2), Squire (2), combat style (1) = 15 Rogue: 3/4 (1), one save (1), d6 (1), light Combatant (1), Sneak Attack (5), Expert (5), Trap sense (1) = 15 The Wizard and Sorcerer are easy to do, and more fun things for you to fill those extra 3 points with later. The druid has an awful lot of abilities to deal with, so in the uber generic class books, he has a d6 instead of a d8, unless you are willing to give up either skills, saves, or bab for the d8. CHAPTER TEN: SOON TO COME AND THANK YOUS! SOON TO COME Expanded Psionics THANK YOUS! I'd Like to thank Slayen, Shadowfoot, Elythen, SearcherOmega, Endarire, Mind Rogue, the Paragon Class (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=205053), the hermit for the PDF version (http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://www.brambletyefarm.com/UGeneric.pdf&origin=), Unholy Dragoon and Sarvas, For being great posters, and providing things such as broken combos to fix, support, formating help, and just some plain damn good D20 material. I'd like to thank the Wizards of the cost team, more specifically Skip Williams and Andy Collins, two of my favoritist D20 writers, and Skip Williams more specificially for the creaton of the sorcerer. If you hadn't made it, my D&D jedi wouldnt exsist ^_^ (if you want info on that, PM me). Amazon.com Wishlist -_^ (http://amazon.com/gp/registry/3OCQMG2MEYC8R)
Kintara 07-26-04, 05:47 AM	I'm about to go to bed, but I wanted to tell you to be patient. This particular board is a bit slow. I think I'll test it out tomorrow, to see if I can break it. ;)
Eltheynn 07-26-04, 03:29 PM	Seems fine, though I'll examine the copy you mailed me and that thread tomorrow paying more attention. P.S: Spontaneus Divine Spellcasters, please... ;) I know that such a thing would be non-core, but hey... They'd work exactly the same as arcane anyway, it's just copying and pasting a few charts ;) P.P.S: Does 6th sense stack with the AC bonus when unarmored? Or are these Bonus Feats the same thing as the progressions, and they jus replace them? I didn't quite understand it...
Crave 07-26-04, 03:46 PM	Originally posted by Kintara I'm about to go to bed, but I wanted to tell you to be patient. This particular board is a bit slow. Originally posted by Eltheynn Seems fine, though I'll examine the copy you mailed me and that thread tomorrow paying more attention. Thanks! If people keep helping to break the system by uber munchkinizing it, I should be able to keep fixing it. Remeber, this is only the alpha version 1.0 Originally posted by Eltheynn P.S: Spontaneus Divine Spellcasters, please... ;) I know that such a thing would be non-core, but hey... They'd work exactly the same as arcane anyway, it's just copying and pasting a few charts ;) I know i know, I just wanted to leave that option in so that people could have more fun with them. OH! and don't forget Favored soul!....*shrudder* If I ever mention favored soul in a positive tone of voice again, you have the right to slap me with a comedic rubber chicken dipped in moutain dew. Originally posted by Eltheynn P.P.S: Does 6th sense stack with the AC bonus when unarmored? Or are these Bonus Feats the same thing as the progressions, and they just replace them? I didn't quite understand it... The 6th sense ability works identical to that of the monk's wisdom bonus to AC, I just wanted to give it a different name.
elfbeastzombiemaster 07-26-04, 04:14 PM	i just thought what if u want to take a break from ur class and take a prestige class what would happen?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Crave 07-26-04, 04:18 PM	Originally posted by elfbeastzombiemaster i just thought what if u want to take a break from ur class and take a prestige class what would happen?:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: It states that you shouldn't allow players to go into PRCs, but it is allowed. I suggest against it though. If you want abilities from certian PRCs, I'm going to be slowly working in certian PRC abilities as feats and progressions, so just stay tunned!
Dunther the Great 07-26-04, 06:42 PM	Originally posted by Crave On a normal game, every player is given 15 points. He can spend these points however he so wishes. First, you choose what abilities you want, and then you head to the next section, Progressions and spend your extra points. ... You cannot have all high abilities in all areas. You are only able to have 2 maxed out abilities out of the following: Base Attack Bonus, skills, Hit dice, bonus feats, and saves. Example: if you have the Highest BAB, and the Highest hit dice, you cannot get the highest amount of skills per level, the highest amount of bonus feats or the highest amount of saves. So I assume that a DM could allow PC's more(or fewer) points and more than 2 abilities campable of being highest if he wanted to run a higher powered campaign. Also if thats true, at what point amount would character levels be powerful enough to use only racial HD andremove the LA (for example young silver dragon 13HD+5LA). If it's different depending on the HD type would it be feasable for the DM to give players with a lesser HD type a few extra points (1-3 perhaps) for some extra progressions to balance things out?
Crave 07-26-04, 07:10 PM	Originally posted by Dunther the Great So I assume that a DM could allow PC's more(or fewer) points and more than 2 abilities campable of being highest if he wanted to run a higher powered campaign. Yeah, you can do that, but then again thats basically like playing Gestalt Generics ^_^;; Originally posted by Dunther the Great Also if thats true, at what point amount would character levels be powerful enough to use only racial HD andremove the LA (for example young silver dragon 13HD+5LA). If it's different depending on the HD type would it be feasable for the DM to give players with a lesser HD type a few extra points (1-3 perhaps) for some extra progressions to balance things out? I'm a wee bit confused about what your trying to say. I'm thinking of ways that you could spend feats, points or strange combinations of the two where you can mix things like monster levels, paragons and the works into your generic class, but thats gonna come after i work out PRCs.
SirisC 07-26-04, 10:36 PM	I must say I'm impressed. The first thing that popped in my mind is, what are the feat progressions in epic? Considering that more bonus epic feats are given to those that have less progressing abilities. And I can't wait to see how psionics are done. :)
Laiqualasse 07-26-04, 11:18 PM	Definitely some nice work here. Though I have to admit the name could use some work. "Uber" has just about been beaten to death and its grave defiled. :rolleyes: In any case, I have to agree that spontaneous divine casters would be really nice (And yes, the Favored Soul is the worst possible way to do it in standard D&D). In general though, I really like what you've done. Especially with the spellcasting. :bow:
Crave 07-27-04, 11:04 AM	Originally posted by SirisC I must say I'm impressed. The first thing that popped in my mind is, what are the feat progressions in epic? Considering that more bonus epic feats are given to those that have less progressing abilities. And I can't wait to see how psionics are done. :) You can bet Psionics are coming REAL soon. As for epics, that i'm a bit hesitant about. Epics and I never got a long to well. It has to be somewhere between the disgustingly huge amounts of math or the uber power everyone just so happens to have. Originally posted by Laiqualasse Definitely some nice work here. Though I have to admit the name could use some work. "Uber" has just about been beaten to death and its grave defiled. But I like the word uber T-T Originally posted by Laiqualasse In any case, I have to agree that spontaneous divine casters would be really nice (And yes, the Favored Soul is the worst possible way to do it in standard D&D). In general though, I really like what you've done. Especially with the spellcasting. Thanks much! The spell casting was really hard to do, but it came out all good in the end. I'd like to have people share some of the progressions they've build, kind of like "Kits" from second eddition. a worship smiley!
Eltheynn 07-27-04, 11:57 AM	BAPTISM OF FIRE: THE ULTIMATE TEST FOR CRAVE’S UBER GENERICS This test consists of two parts. In the first one, I’ll try to build the eleven core classes as they appear in the PHB, with exactly 15 points, no more and no less. In the second, I’ll try to break the crap out of this system. So, let’s move on to the first challenge: THE CORE CLASSES The Barbarian This class has the following features: d12 HD, +1/level BAB, 1 Good Save, 9 Class Skills and 4+INT/level Skill Points, Fast Movement, Rage, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense, DR, Indomitable Will, Greater/Tireless/Mighty Rage. It grants also proficiency with all Simple and Martial Weapons, Light and Medium Armor, and all Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Barbarian is as follows: Heavy Hitter (2 points) + Single Focus (1 point) + Tough as the Bear (4 points), Skillfull* (1 point, grants one more Class Skill than the PHB Barbarian and you can choose which ones are Class Skills), Medium Combatant I (2 points, weaker than what the PHB Barbarian gets), Rage (3 points), DR (2 points). For Fast Movement (which needs to be converted to a feat), I’m not using the Monk ability, as it’s different, so this build lacks that ability. In my opinion this offsets the gain in Class Skills (the extra skill and freedom of choice). As the character can also choose which saves are good, the Uber Generic Barbarian is stronger than the PHB one. The total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check. *When it comes to buying Class Skills and Skill Points, I have decided to keep the Number of Skill Points (not necessarily the number of Class Skills) as true as possible to the classes in the PHB, because the character is free to choose which skills are Class Skills. The Bard This class has the following features: d6 HD, 3/4 BAB, 2 Good Saves, 25 Class Skills* and 6+INT/level Skill Points, Bardic Music, Lore, Inspire Courage, and up to 6th Level Spells (Spontaneous, Arcane). It grants also proficiency with all Simple Weapons and 6 other weapons (5 martial, 1 exotic), Light Armor and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Bard is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Double Focus (2 points), Tough as the Dog (1 point), Adept (3 points, grants 5 less Class Skills), Light Combatant I or Light Combatant II (1 point, either is weaker than what the PHB Bard gets), Arcane Teacher (5 points), Bardic Music (2 points), Lore and Inspire courage as feats (0 points?). This build is as powerful as the PHB Bard, as the freedom of choice regarding which Saves are high and which Skills are Class Skills offset the loss of Skills and Proficiencies. The Total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check. * Whenever a class gains more than one Knowledge Skill (marked with a * after class skills), I’ve counted it as just one skill. The subset of Knowledge Skills needs to be taken into consideration, and I recommend a modification of the Class Skills and Skill Points System in the Uber Generics System, maybe consisting of having each X Knowledge Skills that the character wishes to take be worth Y points 8values to be determined and balanced by you, Crave, as you know the system better). The Cleric This class has the following features: d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, 2 Good Saves, 7 Class Skills* and 2+INT/level Skill Points, Turn/Rebuke Undead, up to 9th Level Spells (Divine, Non-Spontaneous), 2 Domains, Limited Spontaneous Casting (Cure/Inflict Spells). It grants also proficiency with all Simple Weapons, all Armors and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Cleric is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Double Focus (2 points), Tough as the Wolf (2 points), Medium Combatant II (2 points), Divine Master (8 points). This build is a bit weaker than the PHB cleric, as it lacks Domain Powers, Turn/Rebuke Undead and Limited Spontaneus Spellcasting (the freedom of choice offsets the loss of Class Skills). Unlike the Barbarian and Bard above, it doesn’t gain any benefits that can be considered good enough to offset that. Abilities that need conversion: Turn/Rebuke Undead, Domains, Limited Spontaneous Casting. The total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check, although it needs a power-up, with the aforementioned abilities converted to feats (with a cost of 0 points). The Druid This Class has the following Features: d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, 2 Good Saves, 13 Class Skills and 4+INT/level Skill Points, Animal Companion, Nature Sense, Wild Empathy, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Resist Nature’s Lure, Wildshape, Venom Immunity, A Thousand Faces, Timeless Body, up to 9th Level Spells (Divine, Non-Spontaneous), Limited Spontaneus Spellcasting (Summon Nature’s Ally Spells). It also grants proficiency with 8 Simple Weapons and one Martial, and all Non-metallic Armors and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Druid is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Double Focus (2 points), Tough as the Wolf (2 points), Skillfull (1 point, grants 3 less Class Skills), Restricted Custom Proficiencies* (I’d price it at -3 points), Divine Master (8 points), Wildshape (5 points), Nature Sense, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step (0 points). This build is noticeably weaker than the PHB one, and does not gain benefits that can be considered good enough to offset that. Several abilities lack conversion to the Uber Generics System. Timeless Body is unattainable, as is Wildshape (Animal) as a feat, due to the lack of Animal Empathy as a feat or ability in this system. Abilities that need conversion: Restricted Custom Proficiencies, Wild Empathy, Resist Nature’s Lure, Venom Immunity, A Thousand Faces, Animal Companion, Limited Spontaneous Casting. The total of points used amounts to 15 points (and I’m being generous on that one with the Restricted Custom Proficiencies). Check, but needs a revision, with the aforementioned abilities converted to feats (with a cost of 0 points). *All Custom Proficiencies (regardless of being Restricted or Non-Restricted) replace the default Proficiency with all Simple Weapons. The Fighter This class has the following features: d10 HD, +1/level BAB, 1 Good Save, 7 Class Skills and 2+INT/level Skill Points, Bonus Feats every other level. It also grants proficiency with all Simple and Martial Weapons, all armors and shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Fighter is as follows: Heavy Hitter (2 points), Single focus (1 point), Tough as the Bull (3 points), Master (6 points), Heavy Combatant (3 points). The total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check. This build is a bit more powerful than the PHB fighter, mainly due to the freedom of choice regarding which Save is the character’s Good Save (note that this has been taken into account with the rest of classes, but it just doesn’t negate the other penalties they get, not even taking into account the freedom regarding the choice of Class Skills). The Monk This class has the following features: d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, all Good Saves, 17 Class Skills* and 4+INT/level Skill Points, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike, (Improved) Evasion, Still Mind, Ki Strike (Magic), Slow Fall, Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body, Ki Strike (Lawful), Diamond Body, Abundant Step, Diamond Body, Quivering Palm, Ki Strike (Adamantine), Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Empty Body, Perfect Self. It also grants proficiency with 6 simple Weapons, 1 martial and 5 Exotic. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Monk is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Triple Focus (3 points), Tough as the Wolf (2 points), Skillfull (1 point, grants 5 less Class Skills), Non-Restricted Custom Proficiencies (I’d price it at -1 point), Unarmed Strike Damage (2 Points), AC Bonus when Unarmored (1 point), Unarmored Speed (2 points), Slow Fall (4 points), 6th Sense, Flurry of Blows, Still Mind, Ki Strike (Magic/Alignment (Lawful)/Adamantine), Purity of Body; Wholenes of Body, Diamond Body, Timeless Body, Empty Body, Perfect Self, Abundant Step (0 points). The total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check. This build is as powerful as the PHB Monk, although it lacks two abilities (Quivering Palm & tongue of the Sun and Moon, which I suggest converting to Feats with a cost of 0 points) the AC Bonus is better (I assume it stacks with 6th Sense, which the Monk gets as well), and it gets to choose which skills are Class Skills (which offsets the loss of Skills). The Paladin This class has the following features: d10 HD, +1/level BAB, 1 Good Save, 9 Class Skills’* and 2+INT modifier/level Skill Points, Detect Evil at Will, Smite Evil, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Turn Undead, Special Mount, Remove Disease, and up to 4th Level Spells (Divine, Non-Spontaneous). It also grants proficiency wit h all Simple and Martial Weapons, all Armors and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Paladin is as follows: Heavy Hitter (2 points), Single focus (1 point), Though as the Bull (3 points), Heavy Combatant (3 points), Divine Student (2 points), Smite Progression (3 points), Special Mount, Remove Disease (0 points). The Total of points used amounts to 14 points. Fail, as there’s an extra point I can use to improve my character (granted, it won’t do much, but stil…). To solve this, I suggest making either Detect Alignment (so as to allow Detect Evil, but also Detect Good, Law or Chaos) at Will or Special Mount an ability with a cost of 1 point, and tweaking the other abilities to allow Paladins of other concepts (i.e. a Paladin is a Champion of Good, but there can be Champions of Tiranny (UA Alternative Paladins), Balance, etc.). This build lacks several abilities that need to be turned into feats and does not conform to the 15 points system. It is therefore a bit weaker then the PHB Paladin, despite the extra point (not worth much anyway), the freedom in choosing Class Skills (offset by the loss of Skills), and the freedom in choosing the character’s good Save (which does not make up for the rest of lost abilities). The Ranger This Class has the following features: d8 HD, +1/level BAB, 2 Good Saves, 17 Class Skills* and 6+INT/level Skill Points, Favored Enemy, Track, Wild Empathy, Combat Style, Endurance, Animal Companion, Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, Evasion, Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight. It also grants Proficiency in all Simple and Martial Weapons, Light Armor and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Ranger is as follows: Heavy Hitter (2 points), Double Focus (2 points), Tough as the Wolf (2 points), Adept (3 points, grants 1 less Class Skill), Medium Combatant III (2 points), Divine Student (2 points), Favored Enemy (3 points), Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight (0 points). The total of points used amounts to 16 points. Fail, as it takes one more point to build it as accurately as possible. I suggest lowering Favored Enemy to a price of 2 points. This build is weaker than the PHB one, as there are abilities that need to be turned into feats (not entirely offset by the freedom of choosing the character’s Good Save), there’s a lost Class Skill (offset by the freedom of choosing which skills are Class Skills). The Rogue This class has the following features: d6 HD, 3/4 BAB, 1 Good Save, 29 Class Skills* and 8+INT/level Skill Points, SA, Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge, 4 Special Abilities. It also grants proficiency in all Simple Weapons, 4 Martial Weapons and 1 Exotic, and with Light Armor. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Rogue is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Single focus (1 point), Tough as the Dog (1 point), Expert (5 points, grants 9 less Class Skills), Light Combatant I (, 1 point, not quite what the PHB grants but balanced against it IMHO), SA (5 points), all of the following taken as Bonus Feats Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll, Skill Mastery, Slippery Mind, and Opportunist. The total of used points amounts to 14 points. Fail, as there’s an extra point I can use to improve my character. To solve this I suggest increasing Expert’s price by 1 point, possibly increasing it to 16-18 Extra Skills, or SA to a price of 6 points. This build is a bit more powerful than the PHB one, as it can gain more abilities, but it looses on Class Skills. The freedom of choice regarding Skills and Saves, and the extra point offset that (otherwise huge) loss, though. The Sorcerer This class has the following features: d4 HD, 1/2 BAB, 1 Good Save, 6 Class Skills and 2+INT/level Skill Points, a Familiar and up to 9th level Spells (Arcane, Spontaneous). It also grants proficiency in all Simple Weapons. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Sorcerer is as follows: Single Focus (1 point), Arcane Master (12 points), Familiar (2 points, needs to be addded to the System). The Total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check. This build (considering the sorcerer is a glorified “Mommy, I gotsa Magic Powers!” Commoner), is as powerful as the PHB one. The Wizard This class has the following features: d4 HD, 1/2 BAB, 1 Good Save, 6 Class Skills and 2+INT/level Skill Points, Scribe Scroll & 4 Bonus Feats (taken with the 5 base Bonus Feats, see the Commoner Table) a Familiar and up to 9th level Spells (Arcane, Non-Spontaneous). It also grants proficiency in 5 Simple Weapons. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Wizard is as follows: Single Focus (1 point), Arcane Master (12 points), Familiar (2 points, needs to be addded to the System), Non-Restricted Custom Proficiencies (Again, -2 points, See Monk above). The total of points used amounts to 13 points. Fail, as there’s an extra 2 points that I can use to improve my character. To solve this, I suggest that Scribe Scroll is converted to an ability with a price of 2 points. This build is slightly more powerful than the PHB one, as the Bonus Feats it gets, unlike those of the PHB Wizard, are not limited to a Metamagic, Item Creation or Spell Mastery Feat. Conclusions Several abilities need to be converted either as feats with a cost of 0 points, or abilities with varying costs depending on the ability. The Skill and Proficiencies System need a bit of work. Despite that, this system does a generally good work when it comes to building the PHB Core Classes, even if some prices need adjusting. Builds with anything other than 15 points are doomed to be either underpowered or horribly broken, so I advice fixing the system with these 15 points in mind. Now, on to the next (and last) part: THE MUNCHKINFEST In this challenge, I’ll do several builds with the 15 point system, taking into consideration the Balancing Rule provided in the Uber Generics System, but trying to make the builds as powerful as possible. Anyway I suggest running the system through the CO Boards, as I’m not that good at gaining the most out of a rules system. The Killing Machine Goal: To build a god-like Damage Dealer. Build: Heavy Hitter (2 points)+Single Focus (1 point, Fort Save)+Tough as the Wolf (2 points)+Master (6 points)+Heavy Combatant (3 points)+AC Bonus when Unarmored (1 point). 15 points spent. Results: Proficient in all Weapons, Armor & Shields, 1 High Save, +1/level BAB, d8 HD, 16 Bonus Feats as follows (6th Sense, Rage, Greater Rage, Indomitable Will, Tireless Rage, Mighty Rage, DR, any one feat tree from the PHB consisting of 9 or less feats). A Barbarian/Fighter with almost all the benefits of both, loosing only in HD and Skills. I’d say it’s a bit unbalanced, but against spellcasters he is toast. The “Take-me-down-if-ye-dare” Goal: To build the ultimate Tough Guy. Build: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Single Focus (1 point, Fort Save), Though as the Bear (4 points), Medium Combatant II (2 points), AC Bonus when Unarmored (1 point), DR (2 points). There are 4 extra points to distribute as you see fit (Minor Spontaneous Arcane Spellcasting&Minor Divine Spellcasting, Slow Fall, Crafter, Accomplished Studend & Double Focus, etc.). Results: 3/4 BAB, 1 Good Save, d12 HD, Proficient in all Simple Weapons, all Armor and Shields, DR, 5 Bonus Feats as follows (6th Sense, Expert Fighting (I asume they stack with each other and with bonus to AC when unarmored), Wholeness of Body, any two other Feats from the PHB (Toughness x2)). Great AC (I advise making the AC Bonus when unarmored be replaced by 6th Sense/Expert Fighting even though these may stack with each other, as DR is replaced by the DR progression), Great HP, decent combat capabilities. Maybe not as toast against spellcasters, but against sneaky ranged combatants he is. Sir Blastalot (excuse the lame pun ;)) Goal: To build a broken Spellcaster. Builds: Arcane Sir Blastalot (Arcane Master (12 points, Sorcery/Wise), Divine Student (2 points), any ability costing 1 point). Divine Sir Blastalot (Divine Master (8 points), Arcane Teacher(5 points, Sorcery/Wise), any ability costing two points). Results: d4 HD, 1 good Save, 1/2 BAB, 9th level Arcane Spontaneous Spells and 4th Divine Spells, or 9th level Divine Spells and 6th level Arcane Spontaneous Spells, either at 20th Caster Level, 5 Bonus Feats (Metamagic & Spell Mastery). Both are better than dual-casters as the Mystic Theurge, but only because the Uber Generics System favours dual-casters. MT/Ur-Priest is more broken IMHO. The “You can’t see me” Goal: To build a Sneaky Guy that you can’t see, but from which you can’t hide. Build: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Double Focus (2 points, Fort and Will), Tough as the Dog (1 point), Adept (3 points), Accomplished Student (3 points), Medium Combatant III (2 points), Favored Enemy (3 points). Result: d6 HD, 3/4 BAB, 2 Good Saves, Proficient in all Simple and Martial Weapons and Light Armor. Maxes out Move silently, Listen, Spot, Search, Hide, Gather Information if he has decent Int. Favored Enemy Bonuses, 12 Bonus Feats spent on Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Swift Tracker, Camouflage, HiPS, Skill Mastery and sneaky stuff off the PHB. Doesn’t suck at combat, and makes for an excellent Bounty Hunter. This finishes the Munchkinfest. Feel free, however, to contribute your own builds. Overall Results: The system, with a few tweaks, seems to be balanced and consisten with itself. I advise that this is not used with the classes as they appear in the PHB, or with any other system of character creation other than the Uber Generics, and that multiclassing is kept to a minimum (unless the problem with dual-casters and the gaining of multiple benefits at low cost are fixed). Do not use PrC’s with this, no matter what. It still needs a bit of work when it comes to certain abilities and pricings, as noted in part 1 of this test.
SirisC 07-27-04, 12:26 PM	One thing that just popped into my mind: for Dieties, have their divine rank added to their points for designing their class. Originally posted by Crave You can bet Psionics are coming REAL soon. As for epics, that i'm a bit hesitant about. Epics and I never got a long to well. It has to be somewhere between the disgustingly huge amounts of math or the uber power everyone just so happens to have. The number crunching/math is my favorite part of epic games. :)
Eltheynn 07-27-04, 12:36 PM	EGADS! I forgot to add that, in case I haven't selected the Accomplished Student or Master Abilities, and the number of lacking abilities (if any) exceeds 5, the system fails the chek as well. This happens to the Druid only, though.
Crave 07-27-04, 01:39 PM	Originally posted by Eltheynn BAPTISM OF FIRE: THE ULTIMATE TEST FOR CRAVE’S UBER GENERICS :OMG! Originally posted by Eltheynn THE CORE CLASSES The Barbarian This class has the following features: d12 HD, +1/level BAB, 1 Good Save, 9 Class Skills and 4+INT/level Skill Points, Fast Movement, Rage, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge, Trap Sense, DR, Indomitable Will, Greater/Tireless/Mighty Rage. It grants also proficiency with all Simple and Martial Weapons, Light and Medium Armor, and all Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Barbarian is as follows: Heavy Hitter (2 points) + Single Focus (1 point) + Tough as the Bear (4 points), Skillfull* (1 point, grants one more Class Skill than the PHB Barbarian and you can choose which ones are Class Skills), Medium Combatant I (2 points, weaker than what the PHB Barbarian gets), Rage (3 points), DR (2 points). For Fast Movement (which needs to be converted to a feat), I’m not using the Monk ability, as it’s different, so this build lacks that ability. In my opinion this offsets the gain in Class Skills (the extra skill and freedom of choice). As the character can also choose which saves are good, the Uber Generic Barbarian is stronger than the PHB one. The total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check. *When it comes to buying Class Skills and Skill Points, I have decided to keep the Number of Skill Points (not necessarily the number of Class Skills) as true as possible to the classes in the PHB, because the character is free to choose which skills are Class Skills. Fast movement will be made a feat. Originally posted by Eltheynn The Bard This class has the following features: d6 HD, 3/4 BAB, 2 Good Saves, 25 Class Skills* and 6+INT/level Skill Points, Bardic Music, Lore, Inspire Courage, and up to 6th Level Spells (Spontaneous, Arcane). It grants also proficiency with all Simple Weapons and 6 other weapons (5 martial, 1 exotic), Light Armor and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Bard is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Double Focus (2 points), Tough as the Dog (1 point), Adept (3 points, grants 5 less Class Skills), Light Combatant I or Light Combatant II (1 point, either is weaker than what the PHB Bard gets), Arcane Teacher (5 points), Bardic Music (2 points), Lore and Inspire courage as feats (0 points?). This build is as powerful as the PHB Bard, as the freedom of choice regarding which Saves are high and which Skills are Class Skills offset the loss of Skills and Proficiencies. The Total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check. * Whenever a class gains more than one Knowledge Skill (marked with a * after class skills), I’ve counted it as just one skill. The subset of Knowledge Skills needs to be taken into consideration, and I recommend a modification of the Class Skills and Skill Points System in the Uber Generics System, maybe consisting of having each X Knowledge Skills that the character wishes to take be worth Y points 8values to be determined and balanced by you, Crave, as you know the system better).[quote] Skill point problem will be taken into account. [QUOTE]Originally posted by Eltheynn The Cleric This class has the following features: d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, 2 Good Saves, 7 Class Skills* and 2+INT/level Skill Points, Turn/Rebuke Undead, up to 9th Level Spells (Divine, Non-Spontaneous), 2 Domains, Limited Spontaneous Casting (Cure/Inflict Spells). It grants also proficiency with all Simple Weapons, all Armors and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Cleric is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Double Focus (2 points), Tough as the Wolf (2 points), Medium Combatant II (2 points), Divine Master (8 points). This build is a bit weaker than the PHB cleric, as it lacks Domain Powers, Turn/Rebuke Undead and Limited Spontaneus Spellcasting (the freedom of choice offsets the loss of Class Skills). Unlike the Barbarian and Bard above, it doesn’t gain any benefits that can be considered good enough to offset that. Abilities that need conversion: Turn/Rebuke Undead, Domains, Limited Spontaneous Casting. The total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check, although it needs a power-up, with the aforementioned abilities converted to feats (with a cost of 0 points). It mentions in unearthed arcana that Turn undead is a feat. However, upon taking divine casting (belief/religion) you gain domain spells. However i just realized it doesnt state how many. I'll go fix that ^_^;; Originally posted by Eltheynn The Druid Oh dear lord no. Gaia no, please just....Oh fine, continue. You have no idea how hard it was for me to try and balance this freaking class >_<. So many abilities @_@ Originally posted by Eltheynn This Class has the following Features: d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, 2 Good Saves, 13 Class Skills and 4+INT/level Skill Points, Animal Companion, Nature Sense, Wild Empathy, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Resist Nature’s Lure, Wildshape, Venom Immunity, A Thousand Faces, Timeless Body, up to 9th Level Spells (Divine, Non-Spontaneous), Limited Spontaneus Spellcasting (Summon Nature’s Ally Spells). It also grants proficiency with 8 Simple Weapons and one Martial, and all Non-metallic Armors and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Druid is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Double Focus (2 points), Tough as the Wolf (2 points), Skillfull (1 point, grants 3 less Class Skills), Restricted Custom Proficiencies* (I’d price it at -3 points), Divine Master (8 points), Wildshape (5 points), Nature Sense, Woodland Stride, Trackless Step (0 points). This build is noticeably weaker than the PHB one, and does not gain benefits that can be considered good enough to offset that. Several abilities lack conversion to the Uber Generics System. Timeless Body is unattainable, as is Wildshape (Animal) as a feat, due to the lack of Animal Empathy as a feat or ability in this system. This class was so freaking hard to convert, and even as is its till a pain. I was thinking about adding things like minus points for restrictions, but that can be broken easy. Player "I take alighnment restriction = Evil" DM "But your playing a paladin" Player "I know, but i still get the extra points" Restricted Custom Proficiencies -Taken under consideration. OH! theres an idea, using the flaws system! why didn't i think of that? *smack's his own forhead* Wild Empathy -Its already a feat in unearthed arcana, and it's granted free for taking Divine casting (nature) Resist Nature’s Lure - I was thinking about making this a feat, but i just might toss it into a build. Or do both, I looked at the ability and i was wondering if it was powerful enough to make as a feat. Venom Immunity - Will make a feat A Thousand Faces - Didnt really know how to do this one, perhaps gained free for taking Wildshape humanoid? Animal Companion -Could have sworn i made that a feat.... Limited Spontaneous Casting -Given for taking Divine casting (nature). I'll go double check if its written in. Originally posted by Eltheynn The Fighter I KNOW! This class is balanced. I gave it that little UMPH by allowing you to take all those extra feats. A lot of people complain that the fighter isn't very powerful, so i decided I'd give it that umph....and yeah... Did i mention the Umph? Originally posted by Eltheynn The Monk *aims revolver to head, and takes a huge gulp* ok, you can continue now... Originally posted by Eltheynn This class has the following features: d8 HD, 3/4 BAB, all Good Saves, 17 Class Skills* and 4+INT/level Skill Points, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike, (Improved) Evasion, Still Mind, Ki Strike (Magic), Slow Fall, Purity of Body, Wholeness of Body, Ki Strike (Lawful), Diamond Body, Abundant Step, Diamond Body, Quivering Palm, Ki Strike (Adamantine), Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Empty Body, Perfect Self. It also grants proficiency with 6 simple Weapons, 1 martial and 5 Exotic. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Monk is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Triple Focus (3 points), Tough as the Wolf (2 points), Skillfull (1 point, grants 5 less Class Skills), Non-Restricted Custom Proficiencies (I’d price it at -1 point), Unarmed Strike Damage (2 Points), AC Bonus when Unarmored (1 point), Unarmored Speed (2 points), Slow Fall (4 points), 6th Sense, Flurry of Blows, Still Mind, Ki Strike (Magic/Alignment (Lawful)/Adamantine), Purity of Body; Wholenes of Body, Diamond Body, Timeless Body, Empty Body, Perfect Self, Abundant Step (0 points). The total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check. Wait....It works? YES! *tosses revolver away* I made all the monk abilities with a blindfold on, because i didn't even want to bother balancing the damn class. Way to many abilities. Same with the druid. Originally posted by Eltheynn This build is as powerful as the PHB Monk, although it lacks two abilities (Quivering Palm & tongue of the Sun and Moon, which I suggest converting to Feats with a cost of 0 points) the AC Bonus is better (I assume it stacks with 6th Sense, which the Monk gets as well), and it gets to choose which skills are Class Skills (which offsets the loss of Skills). Will do Originally posted by Eltheynn The Paladin This class has the following features: d10 HD, +1/level BAB, 1 Good Save, 9 Class Skills’* and 2+INT modifier/level Skill Points, Detect Evil at Will, Smite Evil, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Turn Undead, Special Mount, Remove Disease, and up to 4th Level Spells (Divine, Non-Spontaneous). It also grants proficiency wit h all Simple and Martial Weapons, all Armors and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Paladin is as follows: Heavy Hitter (2 points), Single focus (1 point), Though as the Bull (3 points), Heavy Combatant (3 points), Divine Student (2 points), Smite Progression (3 points), Special Mount, Remove Disease (0 points). The Total of points used amounts to 14 points. Fail, as there’s an extra point I can use to improve my character (granted, it won’t do much, but stil…). To solve this, I suggest making either Detect Alignment (so as to allow Detect Evil, but also Detect Good, Law or Chaos) at Will or Special Mount an ability with a cost of 1 point, and tweaking the other abilities to allow Paladins of other concepts (i.e. a Paladin is a Champion of Good, but there can be Champions of Tiranny (UA Alternative Paladins), Balance, etc.). Remove disease USE to be a 1 point progression. I'm gonna bring it back. Another thing i was thinking about is making feats like those seen in eberron, known as the "PRCs in a box" that would grant those tiny abilities that go one extra step of the distance. I was thinking maybe this? Zealot of the gods: You gain the following paladin abilities: Divine Grace, Aura of courage and divine health. If you break the prerequisites of this feat, you lose the bonuses. Prerequisites: up to 4th level casting (belief/religion), and the same alignment as your god. Originally posted by Eltheynn This build lacks several abilities that need to be turned into feats and does not conform to the 15 points system. It is therefore a bit weaker then the PHB Paladin, despite the extra point (not worth much anyway), the freedom in choosing Class Skills (offset by the loss of Skills), and the freedom in choosing the character’s good Save (which does not make up for the rest of lost abilities). The Ranger This Class has the following features: d8 HD, +1/level BAB, 2 Good Saves, 17 Class Skills* and 6+INT/level Skill Points, Favored Enemy, Track, Wild Empathy, Combat Style, Endurance, Animal Companion, Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, Evasion, Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight. It also grants Proficiency in all Simple and Martial Weapons, Light Armor and Shields. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Ranger is as follows: Heavy Hitter (2 points), Double Focus (2 points), Tough as the Wolf (2 points), Adept (3 points, grants 1 less Class Skill), Medium Combatant III (2 points), Divine Student (2 points), Favored Enemy (3 points), Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, Camouflage, Hide in Plain Sight (0 points). The total of points used amounts to 16 points. Fail, as it takes one more point to build it as accurately as possible. I suggest lowering Favored Enemy to a price of 2 points. This build is weaker than the PHB one, as there are abilities that need to be turned into feats (not entirely offset by the freedom of choosing the character’s Good Save), there’s a lost Class Skill (offset by the freedom of choosing which skills are Class Skills). hmm, never considered that. I'll lower the price of Favored enemy, any other suggestions on how to work it a bit better....Wait a second, if i remember the class order in the PHB, the next class is....oh no... Originally posted by Eltheynn The Rogue This class has the following features: d6 HD, 3/4 BAB, 1 Good Save, 29 Class Skills* and 8+INT/level Skill Points, SA, Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense, (Improved) Uncanny Dodge, 4 Special Abilities. It also grants proficiency in all Simple Weapons, 4 Martial Weapons and 1 Exotic, and with Light Armor. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Rogue is as follows: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Single focus (1 point), Tough as the Dog (1 point), Expert (5 points, grants 9 less Class Skills), Light Combatant I (, 1 point, not quite what the PHB grants but balanced against it IMHO), SA (5 points), all of the following taken as Bonus Feats Crippling Strike, Defensive Roll, Skill Mastery, Slippery Mind, and Opportunist. The total of used points amounts to 14 points. Fail, as there’s an extra point I can use to improve my character. To solve this I suggest increasing Expert’s price by 1 point, possibly increasing it to 16-18 Extra Skills, or SA to a price of 6 points. This build is a bit more powerful than the PHB one, as it can gain more abilities, but it looses on Class Skills. The freedom of choice regarding Skills and Saves, and the extra point offset that (otherwise huge) loss, though. I'll increase the price of +8 skills Originally posted by Eltheynn The Sorcerer This class has the following features: d4 HD, 1/2 BAB, 1 Good Save, 6 Class Skills and 2+INT/level Skill Points, a Familiar and up to 9th level Spells (Arcane, Spontaneous). It also grants proficiency in all Simple Weapons. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Sorcerer is as follows: Single Focus (1 point), Arcane Master (12 points), Familiar (2 points, needs to be addded to the System). The Total of points used amounts to 15 points. Check. This build (considering the sorcerer is a glorified “Mommy, I gotsa Magic Powers!” Commoner), is as powerful as the PHB one. Hmm, i kept the familiar as a feat, but do you think it needs to be a progression? It's granted free with arcane casting, but you can use that extra bonus feat to give you a metamagic feat, or any other feat your DM considers to be apropriate. Originally posted by Eltheynn The Wizard This class has the following features: d4 HD, 1/2 BAB, 1 Good Save, 6 Class Skills and 2+INT/level Skill Points, Scribe Scroll & 4 Bonus Feats (taken with the 5 base Bonus Feats, see the Commoner Table) a Familiar and up to 9th level Spells (Arcane, Non-Spontaneous). It also grants proficiency in 5 Simple Weapons. Using the Uber Generics System, the build corresponding to the Wizard is as follows: Single Focus (1 point), Arcane Master (12 points), Familiar (2 points, needs to be addded to the System), Non-Restricted Custom Proficiencies (Again, -2 points, See Monk above). The total of points used amounts to 13 points. Fail, as there’s an extra 2 points that I can use to improve my character. To solve this, I suggest that Scribe Scroll is converted to an ability with a price of 2 points. This build is slightly more powerful than the PHB one, as the Bonus Feats it gets, unlike those of the PHB Wizard, are not limited to a Metamagic, Item Creation or Spell Mastery Feat. Scribe scroll? 2 points? wooh, dats a pretty pricey. Maybe i should consider amping the cost for familiar to 2 points....seeing as it would = 15 points without non-restricted custom proficiencies. Originally posted by Eltheynn Conclusions Several abilities need to be converted either as feats with a cost of 0 points, or abilities with varying costs depending on the ability. The Skill and Proficiencies System need a bit of work. Despite that, this system does a generally good work when it comes to building the PHB Core Classes, even if some prices need adjusting. Builds with anything other than 15 points are doomed to be either underpowered or horribly broken, so I advice fixing the system with these 15 points in mind. I wouldn't say horribly doomed...would i guys? *turns around and looks at the Monk iconic, paladin iconic and rogue iconic hanging from a rope at the top of the room being slowly lowered into acid* Guys? Originally posted by Eltheynn Now, on to the next (and last) part: THE MUNCHKINFEST aww :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: Originally posted by Eltheynn In this challenge, I’ll do several builds with the 15 point system, taking into consideration the Balancing Rule provided in the Uber Generics System, but trying to make the builds as powerful as possible. Anyway I suggest running the system through the CO Boards, as I’m not that good at gaining the most out of a rules system. The Killing Machine Goal: To build a god-like Damage Dealer. Build: Heavy Hitter (2 points)+Single Focus (1 point, Fort Save)+Tough as the Wolf (2 points)+Master (6 points)+Heavy Combatant (3 points)+AC Bonus when Unarmored (1 point). 15 points spent. Results: Proficient in all Weapons, Armor & Shields, 1 High Save, +1/level BAB, d8 HD, 16 Bonus Feats as follows (6th Sense, Rage, Greater Rage, Indomitable Will, Tireless Rage, Mighty Rage, DR, any one feat tree from the PHB consisting of 9 or less feats). A Barbarian/Fighter with almost all the benefits of both, loosing only in HD and Skills. I’d say it’s a bit unbalanced, but against spellcasters he is toast. Damage reduction can't be taken with unarmored bonus! YES I KNEW THAT WOULD WORK SOME DAY! *high fives the cheat* But Your right, spell casters would take him down in a mater of seconds. Originally posted by Eltheynn The “Take-me-down-if-ye-dare” Goal: To build the ultimate Tough Guy. Build: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Single Focus (1 point, Fort Save), Though as the Bear (4 points), Medium Combatant II (2 points), AC Bonus when Unarmored (1 point), DR (2 points). There are 4 extra points to distribute as you see fit (Minor Spontaneous Arcane Spellcasting&Minor Divine Spellcasting, Slow Fall, Crafter, Accomplished Studend & Double Focus, etc.). Results: 3/4 BAB, 1 Good Save, d12 HD, Proficient in all Simple Weapons, all Armor and Shields, DR, 5 Bonus Feats as follows (6th Sense, Expert Fighting (I asume they stack with each other and with bonus to AC when unarmored), Wholeness of Body, any two other Feats from the PHB (Toughness x2)). Great AC (I advise making the AC Bonus when unarmored be replaced by 6th Sense/Expert Fighting even though these may stack with each other, as DR is replaced by the DR progression), Great HP, decent combat capabilities. Maybe not as toast against spellcasters, but against sneaky ranged combatants he is. I think I might have stated somewhere that 6th sense and combat expert cannot be taken with each other, and the ac bonus when unarmored stacks with 6th sense or combat senses. They work identical to the monk's wisdom bonus to ac, thats why i made them. But yeah, if this guy is caught flat footed against a ninja, he's doomed. Originally posted by Eltheynn Sir Blastalot (excuse the lame pun ;)) Goal: To build a broken Spellcaster. Builds: Arcane Sir Blastalot (Arcane Master (12 points, Sorcery/Wise), Divine Student (2 points), any ability costing 1 point). Divine Sir Blastalot (Divine Master (8 points), Arcane Teacher(5 points, Sorcery/Wise), any ability costing two points). Results: d4 HD, 1 good Save, 1/2 BAB, 9th level Arcane Spontaneous Spells and 4th Divine Spells, or 9th level Divine Spells and 6th level Arcane Spontaneous Spells, either at 20th Caster Level, 5 Bonus Feats (Metamagic & Spell Mastery). Both are better than dual-casters as the Mystic Theurge, but only because the Uber Generics System favours dual-casters. MT/Ur-Priest is more broken IMHO. Originally posted by Eltheynn MT/Ur-Priest is more broken IMHO. *Arrow comes out of no where and hits him dead in the heart* ACK! *falls over* right there...right there man. NOTHING is more unbalanced then wizard levels -> Ur-priest->mystic theurge. NOTHING!!!! I'm thinking of addin another rule on balance when it comes to multiple spell casting: Spell Casting Balancing rule: When you take one type of spell casting, you cannot take another one UNLESS they both end up giving the same level of spells at 20th level. EXAMPLE: A player wants to play a mystic theurge type character. He takes up to 9th level casting in arcane magic and 4th level casting in divine. This is not do able, because he has to take 9th level in each. Instead, he is free to take up to 6th or 4th level casting in each. See what i mean? it balances out a bit more. Originally posted by Eltheynn The “You can’t see me” Goal: To build a Sneaky Guy that you can’t see, but from which you can’t hide. Build: Mediocre Martial Artist (1 point), Double Focus (2 points, Fort and Will), Tough as the Dog (1 point), Adept (3 points), Accomplished Student (3 points), Medium Combatant III (2 points), Favored Enemy (3 points). Result: d6 HD, 3/4 BAB, 2 Good Saves, Proficient in all Simple and Martial Weapons and Light Armor. Maxes out Move silently, Listen, Spot, Search, Hide, Gather Information if he has decent Int. Favored Enemy Bonuses, 12 Bonus Feats spent on Woodland Stride, Trackless Step, Swift Tracker, Camouflage, HiPS, Skill Mastery and sneaky stuff off the PHB. Doesn’t suck at combat, and makes for an excellent Bounty Hunter. This finishes the Munchkinfest. Feel free, however, to contribute your own builds. That last one 'aighnt half bad. I've seen worse *grumbles and pulls one of his players by the ear* Originally posted by Eltheynn Overall Results: The system, with a few tweaks, seems to be balanced and consisten with itself. I advise that this is not used with the classes as they appear in the PHB, or with any other system of character creation other than the Uber Generics, and that multiclassing is kept to a minimum (unless the problem with dual-casters and the gaining of multiple benefits at low cost are fixed). Do not use PrC’s with this, no matter what. It still needs a bit of work when it comes to certain abilities and pricings, as noted in part 1 of this test. Alright, that's all going to be fixed very soon. Taking into mind everything you mentioned.
SirisC 07-27-04, 01:40 PM	Where is the spell resistance ability? Something along the lines of diamond soul.
Eltheynn 07-27-04, 02:46 PM	Originally posted by Crave :OMG! Fast movement will be made a feat. OK It mentions in unearthed arcana that Turn undead is a feat. However, upon taking divine casting (belief/religion) you gain domain spells. However i just realized it doesnt state how many. I'll go fix that ^_^;; OK, I don't have UA, so if it appears there as a Feat, I didn't know. Oh dear lord no. Gaia no, please just....Oh fine, continue. You have no idea how hard it was for me to try and balance this freaking class >_<. So many abilities @_@ Worry not, the Druid is a bit overpowered, so missing one or two abilities, I could live with that. This class was so freaking hard to convert, and even as is its till a pain. I was thinking about adding things like minus points for restrictions, but that can be broken easy. Player "I take alighnment restriction = Evil" DM "But your playing a paladin" Player "I know, but i still get the extra points" For things like being restricted in alignment (as per the PHB, so no Evil pally!), restricted use of weapons (Monk, Wizard, Druid), I could see giving points back. Restricted Custom Proficiencies -Taken under consideration. OH! theres an idea, using the flaws system! why didn't i think of that? *smack's his own forhead* Wild Empathy -Its already a feat in unearthed arcana, and it's granted free for taking Divine casting (nature) Dunno about flaws, and I didn't know about Animal Empathy being a UA feat. Resist Nature’s Lure - I was thinking about making this a feat, but i just might toss it into a build. Or do both, I looked at the ability and i was wondering if it was powerful enough to make as a feat. Make it a feat. It's worth it. Venom Immunity - Will make a feat Okeedokee. A Thousand Faces - Didnt really know how to do this one, perhaps gained free for taking Wildshape humanoid? Perhaps... Animal Companion -Could have sworn i made that a feat.... I can not find it anywhere, so you might have missed it... Limited Spontaneous Casting -Given for taking Divine casting (nature). I'll go double check if its written in. If it was already written, I missed it. My bad. I KNOW! This class is balanced. I gave it that little UMPH by allowing you to take all those extra feats. A lot of people complain that the fighter isn't very powerful, so i decided I'd give it that umph....and yeah... Did i mention the Umph? Yeah, maybe the Core Fighter needs a bit umph... *aims revolver to head, and takes a huge gulp* ok, you can continue now... :rofl: Wait....It works? YES! *tosses revolver away* I made all the monk abilities with a blindfold on, because i didn't even want to bother balancing the damn class. Way to many abilities. Same with the druid. But they're fairly balanced... Good job, I say. Will do Okeedokee. Remove disease USE to be a 1 point progression. I'm gonna bring it back. Another thing i was thinking about is making feats like those seen in eberron, known as the "PRCs in a box" that would grant those tiny abilities that go one extra step of the distance. I was thinking maybe this? Zealot of the gods: You gain the following paladin abilities: Divine Grace, Aura of courage and divine health. If you break the prerequisites of this feat, you lose the bonuses. Prerequisites: up to 4th level casting (belief/religion), and the same alignment as your god. The Zealot Feat Seems OK to me. Remove Disease as a 1 point prog. is OK as well. hmm, never considered that. I'll lower the price of Favored enemy, any other suggestions on how to work it a bit better....Wait a second, if i remember the class order in the PHB, the next class is....oh no... The Rogue, yup... But the ranger, if you lower the Fav. Enemy price is OK.... I'll increase the price of +8 skills OK... Hmm, i kept the familiar as a feat, but do you think it needs to be a progression? It's granted free with arcane casting, but you can use that extra bonus feat to give you a metamagic feat, or any other feat your DM considers to be apropriate. What? Wait, then scrap it off my calculations! The Sorcerer (and therefore the Wizard) fails, as the price of the Familiar must be substracted from the total. And as it stands, nowhere in arcane Studious Casting does it say that the character gains a Familiar, it only mentions Scribe Scroll. BTW, your Sorcerer, by virtue of the 1st Level Extra Feat is a bit stronger than the PHB one, but it needs that (I'd limit it to Eschew Materials, a limited feat is worth less than a free feat). Scribe scroll? 2 points? wooh, dats a pretty pricey. Maybe i should consider amping the cost for familiar to 2 points....seeing as it would = 15 points without non-restricted custom proficiencies. If you make Familiar a Feat worth two points, with the requirement of Arcane Spellcasting (Any), the Sorcerer is balanced. But by gaining Scribe Scroll for free, the Wizard is not (the build spends 13 points,giving the player two extra points to play with). That's why I made it a 2-point Feat. But I agree it's pricey. I wouldn't say horribly doomed...would i guys? *turns around and looks at the Monk iconic, paladin iconic and rogue iconic hanging from a rope at the top of the room being slowly lowered into acid* Guys? But it'd be a pain in the ass to make it work. Damage reduction can't be taken with unarmored bonus! YES I KNEW THAT WOULD WORK SOME DAY! *high fives the cheat* But Your right, spell casters would take him down in a mater of seconds. Whoops, my bad! Guess I'm not a munchkin... I think I might have stated somewhere that 6th sense and combat expert cannot be taken with each other, and the ac bonus when unarmored stacks with 6th sense or combat senses. They work identical to the monk's wisdom bonus to ac, thats why i made them. But yeah, if this guy is caught flat footed against a ninja, he's doomed. If you stated that both can't be taken, I missed that... Again, i'm not that good at breaking systems... *Arrow comes out of no where and hits him dead in the heart* ACK! *falls over* right there...right there man. NOTHING is more unbalanced then wizard levels -> Ur-priest->mystic theurge. NOTHING!!!! I'm thinking of addin another rule on balance when it comes to multiple spell casting: Spell Casting Balancing rule: When you take one type of spell casting, you cannot take another one UNLESS they both end up giving the same level of spells at 20th level. EXAMPLE: A player wants to play a mystic theurge type character. He takes up to 9th level casting in arcane magic and 4th level casting in divine. This is not do able, because he has to take 9th level in each. Instead, he is free to take up to 6th or 4th level casting in each. See what i mean? it balances out a bit more. I see no reason for it short of game balance. But if it floats your boat, go for it... And there are more unbalanced things. Ever seen the "Deals A Billion Damage per Round" Hulking Hurler Build, or the Deals about 500/damage (per round IIRC) Ranger build over at the CO boards? That last one 'aighnt half bad. I've seen worse *grumbles and pulls one of his players by the ear* I'm pretty proud of it... Ranger/Rogue, but only what I want to get from each... And it's pretty good at what I wanted it to do... [B]Alright, that's all going to be fixed very soon. Taking into mind everything you mentioned. I'll be getting to this thread whenever I can to keep helping you...
Eltheynn 07-27-04, 02:50 PM	Originally posted by SirisC Where is the spell resistance ability? Something along the lines of diamond soul. Diamond Body appears as a Feat. Check Chapter 6: Feats. ;)
SirisC 07-27-04, 03:26 PM	Originally posted by Eltheynn Diamond Body appears as a Feat. Check Chapter 6: Feats. ;) But diamond body is poison immunity, diamond soul is spell resistance.
Feneem 07-27-04, 08:28 PM	One question, have you looked at the ultimate 'X' threads which appeared here a while ago? In terms of character flexibility it was less ambitious than this system but it did have a lot of PrC stuff in its progressions.
Eltheynn 07-28-04, 05:39 AM	Originally posted by SirisC But diamond body is poison immunity, diamond soul is spell resistance. *gets hold of PHB* :OMG! OK, forget about it... Brain fart again... Which is only understandable after nearly an hour and a half of testing the Uber Generics... Anyway, both are listed as Feats, dunno if they were already or Crave added it later on... KNOWLEDGE SKILL! In many campaign settings, there are very many knowledge skills. To help gain access to more knowledge skills quicker, everyone 1 skill grants you access to two knowledge skills of choice. Sl let's say I don't buy extra skills, and stay at 6, like the Commoner.... Do I have 12 Knowledge skills, then? Or do you mean that if I select Knowledge as one of my Class Skills, I do not choose Knowledge, but two subtypes of Knowledge instead (i.e., to have Knowledge [Local], Knowledge [The Planes], Knowledge [Arcana] and Knowledge [Geography] I'd have to choose Knowledge as a Class Skill twice)? If it's the latter, I'd do the same with Perform, Profession and Craft. Those three also have a subset of skills.
Nan Lung 07-28-04, 08:22 AM	Ohh man..OHH MAN! I take a break from the internet for a few days, and return to find a GEM just sitting here. Beautiful. Crave, I love you. :P I cannot wait until all the abvilities are done, I think some players I know would like the freedom (As would a DM...). ;)
Crave 07-28-04, 05:28 PM	Originally posted by SirisC But diamond body is poison immunity, diamond soul is spell resistance It's been added Originally posted by Feneem One question, have you looked at the ultimate 'X' threads which appeared here a while ago? In terms of character flexibility it was less ambitious than this system but it did have a lot of PrC stuff in its progressions. No, i havent, however i did see this thread http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209071&highlight=generic+classes Which gave me a few ideas, however i had the idea of doing this system before i saw this thread. Props to it's creator though. Originally posted by Eltheynn Sl let's say I don't buy extra skills, and stay at 6, like the Commoner.... Do I have 12 Knowledge skills, then? Or do you mean that if I select Knowledge as one of my Class Skills, I do not choose Knowledge, but two subtypes of Knowledge instead (i.e., to have Knowledge [Local], Knowledge [The Planes], Knowledge [Arcana] and Knowledge [Geography] I'd have to choose Knowledge as a Class Skill twice)? Yup ^_^, wow, you tested my system for an hour and a half? *gives Eltheynn a big hug* Originally posted by Nan Lung Ohh man..OHH MAN! I take a break from the internet for a few days, and return to find a GEM just sitting here. Beautiful. Crave, I love you. I cannot wait until all the abvilities are done, I think some players I know would like the freedom (As would a DM...). Somebody loves me! ^_^ I've been tinkering in that yong little brain of mine possible points and future balancing what nots, and the DMG's set of prc's should be converted soon. On a completly unrealted note, has anyone noticed how well playing with legos and listening to system of a down just so happens to mix together? I'm listening to system of a down and suddenly have the urge to split my pay check at the local toy store to get all the star wars, harry potter and new castle legos i can get my grubby hands on.
Lina_Inverse 07-29-04, 09:08 PM	a dietype increase is worth one feat,just one.since its only 1hp/lvl.
Crave 07-29-04, 11:00 PM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse a dietype increase is worth one feat,just one.since its only 1hp/lvl. I disagree. Feats have 2 seperate types of inpact in this game. There's the stacking type, and theres the one shot ones. The stacking feats have to be taken multiple times, each time the abilitie's power increases. One shot feats are taken once, and it impacts from then on out. The reason why i made the hit dice increase worth one point each dice is because 1 extra hit point per level is small in small doses, but huge in large ones, hence why the ablities value increases so much. Sure, increasing from having 42 hit points at 20th level to 61 isn't that much, but when you look at having 42 compared to 126 is alot. I think a feat doesn't amount to that much. Plus, feats give you something at that level, while progressions and abilities slowly increase every level, or every few level. Thats why its worth one point, now one feat. Besides, think about it like this. Rogue takes one feat, changing his hitdice from a d6 to a d8. Thats a really, really, REALLY big increase. That takes him from back line to front line in most peoples books. Thats just a weeee bit over powered. Hope i could help.
SirisC 07-29-04, 11:07 PM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse a dietype increase is worth one feat,just one.since its only 1hp/lvl. Not if toughness is considered a feat.
Lina_Inverse 07-30-04, 03:10 AM	Originally posted by SirisC Not if toughness is considered a feat. its not,its way too crappy xP.im talking about improved toughness. i realize its SLIGHTY better than the most feats but it seems a bit expensive,grabbing better bonus feats and improved toughness is pretty much strictly better than a hitdie increase.
Crave 07-30-04, 12:47 PM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse its not,its way too crappy xP.im talking about improved toughness. i realize its SLIGHTY better than the most feats but it seems a bit expensive,grabbing better bonus feats and improved toughness is pretty much strictly better than a hitdie increase. What? and the maker's opinion is chop suey? =P Well, if you want to go down that path, taking bonus feats like improved toughness and what not, you can stick to you d4 hit dice. As the system stands it will cost one point for every hit dice increase. That will not be changed, unless imblance is shown. If you want to waste your bonus feats to go out and get improved toughness and a few other tough abilities but stick to a d4, that perfectly fine. However my barbarian with the d12 hit dice and similar selection in feats is probably going to last a wee bit longer ;)
Crave 07-31-04, 05:59 PM	Update. Feel free to Thank me with money (I take cash, money orders, credit cards and checks) D20 books, a personal Andy Collins slave (*WHIP* MORE FEATS I SAY! Andy: Yes sir...) or Sacrifice Newbs/virgins ;)
Lina_Inverse 08-01-04, 01:59 AM	Originally posted by Crave What? and the maker's opinion is chop suey? =P Well, if you want to go down that path, taking bonus feats like improved toughness and what not, you can stick to you d4 hit dice. As the system stands it will cost one point for every hit dice increase. That will not be changed, unless imblance is shown. If you want to waste your bonus feats to go out and get improved toughness and a few other tough abilities but stick to a d4, that perfectly fine. However my barbarian with the d12 hit dice and similar selection in feats is probably going to last a wee bit longer ;) see if you have d12 hp and my bonus feat selection I have more OTHERNESS.and that otherness is more usefull than your hitdie increases,which might do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!thats right you might roll all 4s and lower!its possible(though not likely).the point im makeing is not that the idea is bad(your at least keeping levels thank cheese)its that hp isnt worth the cost,well that and bad luck.
Crave 08-01-04, 02:21 AM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse see if you have d12 hp and my bonus feat selection I have more OTHERNESS.and that otherness is more usefull than your hitdie increases,which might do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!thats right you might roll all 4s and lower!its possible(though not likely).the point im makeing is not that the idea is bad(your at least keeping levels thank cheese)its that hp isnt worth the cost,well that and bad luck. I kind of see your point. Kind of. However, thats not entirely true. Even if you do roll all fours, I can simply tell my DM I take the average amount of hit points each level. end result? +6 hit points + con mod every level. Even if you roll 4 every level i'm still going to be 2 hit points ahead of you every level, and that gap is gonna grow, and grow, and grow. Trust me, the value is worth the cost. Not to mention your entire argument is based on chanc. I'm not going to change it (yes i'm being stubborn) And i would enjoy very much if this subject was dropped. I do not want a flame war being started on my creation, and I know we can argue your point from here on end, but as it stands, i do not think that one feat equals another level in hit dice, nor do i think it ever will. POst your variant, get feed back, fix it and make it work as you like, but in my book and in my system, it will not be official. As it stands, hit points will cost one point per level. End argument. Now. PS: I do not mean to be rude, once more i just dont want to start a flame war. Post your opinion as you like in a peaceful, nice, orderly manor, but with all do respect, I'm not going to reply to it. If I've broken any of the rules from this message board i will gladly go back and erase this post. On another note, any thoughts on the beta version?
Eltheynn 08-01-04, 07:03 AM	Originally posted by Crave On another note, any thoughts on the beta version? I'd set the abilities that qualify for the benefits of the Druidic Restriction, 'cause if I as a DM deem every Druid Ability valid for the restriction bonus, I'd be giving 1 free point per every ability taken (not that this is likely to happen, but I think it's always best to prevent than to cure). And while we are at it, I'd go a la "Zealot of the Gods" and set a number of abilities (those that were not included in the Druid build that I tested because they weren't feats) that you gain by taking the restriction, instead of reducing their cost. Other than that, no complaint as far as I'm concerned.
Lina_Inverse 08-01-04, 09:53 AM	Originally posted by Crave I kind of see your point. Kind of. However, thats not entirely true. Even if you do roll all fours, I can simply tell my DM I take the average amount of hit points each level. end result? +6 hit points + con mod every level. Even if you roll 4 every level i'm still going to be 2 hit points ahead of you every level, and that gap is gonna grow, and grow, and grow. Trust me, the value is worth the cost. Not to mention your entire argument is based on chanc. I'm not going to change it (yes i'm being stubborn) And i would enjoy very much if this subject was dropped. I do not want a flame war being started on my creation, and I know we can argue your point from here on end, but as it stands, i do not think that one feat equals another level in hit dice, nor do i think it ever will. POst your variant, get feed back, fix it and make it work as you like, but in my book and in my system, it will not be official. As it stands, hit points will cost one point per level. End argument. Now. PS: I do not mean to be rude, once more i just dont want to start a flame war. Post your opinion as you like in a peaceful, nice, orderly manor, but with all do respect, I'm not going to reply to it. If I've broken any of the rules from this message board i will gladly go back and erase this post. On another note, any thoughts on the beta version? if you dont want critisism of ideas dont post.oh and your the one who noted rolled hp,thus i should assume thats what is to be viewed from a balence perspective.its still not worth 1 per when 6 or so feats are worth 3.
Crave 08-01-04, 03:48 PM	Originally posted by Eltheynn I'd set the abilities that qualify for the benefits of the Druidic Restriction, 'cause if I as a DM deem every Druid Ability valid for the restriction bonus, I'd be giving 1 free point per every ability taken (not that this is likely to happen, but I think it's always best to prevent than to cure). And while we are at it, I'd go a la "Zealot of the Gods" and set a number of abilities (those that were not included in the Druid build that I tested because they weren't feats) that you gain by taking the restriction, instead of reducing their cost. Other than that, no complaint as far as I'm concerned. Thanks Eltheynn! I'm gonna go do that. I noticed i skipped over 2 more Restrictions i can add onto this book, and I'm afraid of opening my DMG and Unearthed arcana, because I get too many ideas whenever i read the abilities. Any body else have any helpful advice?
Exomnium 08-03-04, 08:33 AM	Does This system allow you to cast spells as both a sorcerer and a wizard? How come wizards don't automatically get familiars like sorcerers do?
Crave 08-03-04, 12:25 PM	Originally posted by Exomnium Does This system allow you to cast spells as both a sorcerer and a wizard? How come wizards don't automatically get familiars like sorcerers do? Ah, never thought of that. I'll write that into the spells page as soon as i finish the DMG and UNA, which might be coming sooner then expected. I guess that would be fine but wizards and sorcerers have to take different ability scores with there spell casting, for example if someone where to have say up to 6th level casting wizard/sorcerer and they choose int. for wizards, they have to choose wisdom or charisma for sorcerer. The reason why Wizards don't automatically get familiars like sorcerers is because wizards automatically get scribe scroll. All forms of spell casting comes with at least one or two bonus feats (Dependent what type of casting). Sorcerers can choose to take a familiar, but they can also switch out the familiar for any apropriate feat, like a metamagic or something of the likes. I made it like this because all wizards need scribe scroll, so just to balance it out all sorcerers get a feat that has something to do with there style of casting.
Exomnium 08-04-04, 08:39 AM	You know in the old AD&D Dungeons Master Guide There was a system no unlike yours for desinging new classes. The major difference was you had any number of points but the more points you spent the slower you leveled up. It had very specific mitigating factors that were less general than yours and gave back points. Maybe you could trade a point bonus for an xp penalty, similar to multiclassing.
Lillandra 08-05-04, 10:01 AM	This is very interesting work, well done for the effort. If there ever is a 4th ed (not for a very long time please) I am sure that this kind of logic will underpin the construction of classes & Prc's. It may not be explicit, but it should be there. I wonder if you might give characters 14 pts to design their own characters, but then a 1pt package bonus for the standard core classes (much like fantasy hero of old) to compensate for less choice. Also would it be necessary to separate useful skills/feats from less useful ones with different point costs?
Crave 08-06-04, 01:05 PM	Originally posted by Exomnium You know in the old AD&D Dungeons Master Guide There was a system no unlike yours for desinging new classes. The major difference was you had any number of points but the more points you spent the slower you leveled up. It had very specific mitigating factors that were less general than yours and gave back points. Maybe you could trade a point bonus for an xp penalty, similar to multiclassing. Really? Thats cool. I never knew that, I've only been playing D&D for about a year and 4-6 months, but I instantly got hooked to the D20 system. 2nd edition frightens me at times, but I might look around and see if i can get a good history lesson on 2nd edition Originally posted by Lillandra This is very interesting work, well done for the effort. If there ever is a 4th ed (not for a very long time please) I am sure that this kind of logic will underpin the construction of classes & Prc's. It may not be explicit, but it should be there. :inlove: BIG HUG! Originally posted by Lillandra I wonder if you might give characters 14 pts to design their own characters, but then a 1pt package bonus for the standard core classes (much like fantasy hero of old) to compensate for less choice. Might make for an interesting varient. I thought it might be cool to make an entire list of one point proficiancy possibilities. Originally posted by Lillandra Also would it be necessary to separate useful skills/feats from less useful ones with different point costs? Not necessarily. I for one believe that all feats/skills are created equal (by the people and for the people) unless its this feat. God: You are teh uber l33tness, you have 40 levels in everything and all feats/skills ever printed. This is only takenable at 1st level. Yeah, that feat is a little over powered. If you catch my drift, when it comes to the uber generics, all feats printed from what i've seen tend to be equal, so it doesnt matter if you plan your first feat to be Acrobatic or Quicken spell, there all equal in my book. BTW, i should mention (and will mention in the next following up additions) that it is a good idea for players to plan out their class, all 20 levels of it (at least what bonus feats they are taking) so that way they can meet any prestige progressions or feat prerequisites before they take that level, so they qualify for something before they are pushed into embaresment by figuring out there isnt much they can do now that they dont meet the prerequisites. Its also a good idea to do this, so a DM can see what the PCs are gonna take before they reach said level, so that way you don't end up with hugely over powered PCs. PS: Has anyone else noticed that I'm pretty much killing post until we meet page 3?
Crave 08-08-04, 02:07 AM	wierd, why does it say that the last post was from Lillandra when i made the last post? Strange....
Lillandra 08-09-04, 06:49 AM	A couple of other thoughts: Should you make the fighters ability to be the only ones to have the wpn specialisation and greater specialisation worth 1pt? I still believe that not all skills and feats are equal. I would seprate them into three categories, so that if you can chose 6 skills it would be 2 from list A, 2 from list B and 2 from list C. List A might be: spot, hide, search, tumble etc. List B: Kn (arcana), survival etc List C: Swim etc. We could probably do the same for feats, although you are right they are a little closer in power than skills. Also a word of advice (although one should never give advice): I think you are on to something really interesting here, and you have done a lot of hard work - I would minimise as much as possible any changes you make. i.e. no new feats or changes to existing powers etc. This is to keep your workload to a manageable level and also allow the rest of us to compare your system with existing game mechanics. Keep up the good work :)
Crave 08-17-04, 01:07 AM	Originally posted by Lillandra A couple of other thoughts: Should you make the fighters ability to be the only ones to have the wpn specialisation and greater specialisation worth 1pt? I still believe that not all skills and feats are equal. I would seprate them into three categories, so that if you can chose 6 skills it would be 2 from list A, 2 from list B and 2 from list C. List A might be: spot, hide, search, tumble etc. List B: Kn (arcana), survival etc List C: Swim etc. We could probably do the same for feats, although you are right they are a little closer in power than skills. Also a word of advice (although one should never give advice): I think you are on to something really interesting here, and you have done a lot of hard work - I would minimise as much as possible any changes you make. i.e. no new feats or changes to existing powers etc. This is to keep your workload to a manageable level and also allow the rest of us to compare your system with existing game mechanics. Keep up the good work :) To tell you the honest to gaia truth, I really just wanna keep the skill thing as is. Your suggestion is really cool and might make an awsome varient within a varient. The reason why i havent posted the books as promised is because well....I've been kind of lazy. I've been circulating other ideas which include a new type of weapon and a new spell casting system. The stuff should be done soon, thats the best i can give you, so the next time i update i'm gonna be posting UNA, DMG and PSI, so you'll have plenty to work with. Till then, just play with the stuff you've got. If you guys post a bunch of ideas for builds I'll make an extra chapter with all the builds in it. I think that'd be kinda cool
Lillandra 08-17-04, 04:18 AM	I don't know if someone who has put in all the work that you have can ever call themselves lazy. Look forward to reading any new stuff.
Mind Rogue 08-18-04, 04:52 PM	I had done some generic class design like this myself, and some of my stuff was pretty simmilar. It was based off of the NPC classes, the D20 modern classes, and the simpler PC classes (not druid or monk). Basically you start with the commoner build, as you did, then advance your class abilities. HD: each point increases from d4 to the next size level (max d12) BaB: 1 point advances to x3/4 progression, 2 to x1. Saves: Each point gets you one good save. Skills: Each character has 10 class skills, plus all crafts and professions. Each point added gives you two new class skill and an additional 2 skill points per level (max 8+Int /level) Proficient with simple weapons, light armor, and sheilds. For the aristocrat, expert, warrior, and d20 modern ordinaries, this is all they get (give or take a few class skills and weapon proficiencies). It also happens that each of them has precisely 5 points to spend as described above. The thing is, PC characters are supposed to be about twice as powerful as an NPC. This gives them 10 points. Looking at a fighter, a bonus feat at every even level and at first level, would be worth 4 points. The sorcerer's caster level is apparently worth all 10. Still, spellcasting and feat progressions need to be assigned points. All class features need to be turned into feats. Feat progressions are as follows: All characters get a bonus feat at first level. For four points, they can take an extra feat at every even level. For three points, they recieve a feat at every level divisable by three. For two points, they recieve a feat at every level divisable by four. For one point, they recieve a feat at every level divisable by five. Caster progressions based on the above: Sorcerer: 10 Wizard: 9 Cleric: 5 Adept: 2 The other caster progressions are a little harder to analyze. I expect that the bard progression is about two or three points, the druid to be three or four, and the ranger/paladin to each be a point. I don't pretend that all if the caster point values are accurate, or that you can build all the classes from this (the barbarian is at 7 points + feats (one every three levels). The fighter does adhere to this almost exactly (more versatality, fewer proficiencies). If you let a character take proficiency with all martials as one feat (instead of separate) or if you use weapon groups, things might work a little better. Try applying this to the UA generics, and see what the spellcaster progression is.
Crave 08-21-04, 12:08 AM	Originally posted by Mind Rogue I had done some generic class design like this myself, and some of my stuff was pretty simmilar. It was based off of the NPC classes, the D20 modern classes, and the simpler PC classes (not druid or monk). Cool. I like your idea and build. Perhaps you should post up your version and see what people think. Oh, btw, Any dm's currently looking at this system should break the sneak attack feats from UnA into 6 feats, each providing an additional +2d6.
Mind Rogue 08-21-04, 02:48 PM	By Crave's request, here are a few abilities turned into feats in no particular order. Fast Movement: Your base speed increases by 10 ft. You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects stack. Uncanny Dodge: Prerequisite. Base reflex save +2. As the barbarian or rogue ability. Improved Uncanny Dodge: Prerequisites: Uncanny Dodge, base reflex save +4. As the Barbarian or Rogue ability. Trapfinding: As the rogue ability + the trapsense ability (+1 per 3 levels) Damage Reduction: Prerequisite base fortitude save +2. DR 1/-. This ability can be taken multiple times. Each time the damage reduction increases by +1 and the base fortitude save is an extra +1. Turn/Rebuke Undead (su): Prerequisite able to cast divine spells. Gains the supernatural ability to turn or rebuke undead. Animal Companion: As the druid ability. Wild Empathy: As the druid ability. Nature Sense: As the druid ability. Woodland Stride: As the druid ability. Trackless step: As the druid ability. Resist Nature's Lure: As the druid ability. Evasion: Prerequisite Base reflex save +3. As the monk or rogue ability. Improved Evasion: Prerequisite Base reflex save +6, Evasion. As the monk or rogue ability. Sneak Attack: +1d6 as the rogue ability. Improved Sneak Attack: Prerequisite Sneak Attack. Add +2d6 to your sneak attack damage. This ability can be taken multiple times. Its effects stack. Summon Familiar: Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane spells. As the sorcerer or wizard ability. I do not pretend to have playtested this, that this list is complete, or even remotely close to properly balanced. If you have suggestions, please politely post them. Yelling will not be tolerated. Mind Rogue
Exomnium 09-06-04, 03:49 PM	This has been bugging me for awhile: Is the commoner suppose to have that extra feat?
Crave 09-07-04, 12:03 PM	This has been bugging me for awhile: Is the commoner suppose to have that extra feat? I've been questioning that myself, and I'd have to go with no. Seeing as the normal commoner doesnt gain any bonus feats, I don't see why this one should, however, it should be noted that the uber generics sometimes plays about .5 above and below the normal power level in certian campaign settings, so you should check it out and get your own opinion on it before you stomp it down. So yes and no.
Crave 09-26-04, 01:46 AM	there are things that go :bump: in the night.
Ganor 10-29-04, 01:43 AM	I was just wondering if anybody noticed that with the bonus feats attached to the "base" class characters can get two bonus feats at 1st, 2nd, 10th and 20th level if they take the Master special ability as well as filling in a missing bonus feat for levels 5 and 15. I'm just wondering if this was intentional
Crave 11-30-04, 09:16 AM	Yes, when you take something that gives you more bonus feats during your class progression, you loose the previous (Inferior) one. BTW, for all of you who'd like the new, updated version with all the new special features, your gonna have to wait. I still haven't worked on it much. Been kinda busy with all my school work and stuff, but with some time and support, I MIGHT Be able to get it up by late saturday.
Endarire 12-01-04, 01:32 AM	I'll follow this since it seems interesting and I'll plug the Paragon (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=205053&page=1&pp=50) project. Also, why are psionics costlier than arcane and divine? -EE
Endarire 12-02-04, 01:05 AM	Slow fall seems way overpriced! It's handy to have, but learning Feather Fall is cheaper. Smite and Bardic Music are generally more helpful than SF. Also, the 9th level Wizard casting progression is barckward: 4 at L16, 3 at 17, etc. Finally, should 9th level spells come at L16 for preparing casters and 17 for spontaneous? -EE
Crave 12-02-04, 09:26 AM	I'll follow this since it seems interesting and I'll plug the Paragon project. Also, why are psionics costlier than arcane and divine? Slow fall seems way overpriced! It's handy to have, but learning Feather Fall is cheaper. Smite and Bardic Music are generally more helpful than SF. Also, the 9th level Wizard casting progression is barckward: 4 at L16, 3 at 17, etc. Finally, should 9th level spells come at L16 for preparing casters and 17 for spontaneous? -EE Thanks for the feed back. I'll see what i can fix with the slow fall progresion. The thing with 9th level wizard casting being backwards.....Oops ^_^;; And yes, 9th level spells come at 16th level for preparing casters, and 17 for spontaneous since (correct me if im wrong) it is similar for the sorcerer and wizard (which was what the caster progressions where based off of) As for psionics, they should come in an update. I'm trying to fix around working and stuff so i can update bi weekly or atleast monthly. But the first update that will come will be for Unearther Arcana and DMG material, which will cover PRCs, UA rules, and going from good to evil.
Mind Rogue 12-02-04, 10:19 AM	Prepared casters (such as clerics, druids, and wizards) generally get their spells at twice the spell level minus one, while the sorcerer gets new spells at twice the spell level. This means your prepared spellcasters should get 9th level spells at 17, while spontaneous ones need to wait till 18.
SearcherOmega 12-02-04, 03:07 PM	I'd just like to throw my support behind this project. It looks really good! I'll be playing as the generic class using a build similar to psychic warrior with a few modifications: 3/4 BAB: 1 point Double Focus (Fort & Will): 2 points Tough as Wolf: 2 points Light Combatant I: 1 point Psionic Teacher: 5 points Skillful: 1 point Moderate Bonus Feats: 3 points Essentially, trading in proficiencies for skills and saves. I suppose we could consider this to be a field test, then; If anything unbalancing is found in play, it'll be brought to your attention. Keep up the good work! :D Edit: Had to adjust build from Light Combatant II to Light Combatant I, fixed a typo.
Endarire 12-02-04, 10:43 PM	I think full BAB should cost at least one point more, and "Skill Full" should be spelled "Skillful." -EE
SearcherOmega 12-03-04, 03:42 PM	After looking at the possible builds, I agree with Endarire that Full BAB should cost 3 points rather than 2. To change this, you might need to adjust the costs of barbarian, ranger, and fighter class features. Also, it should be "Three Saves" rather than "Tree Saves", unless it's applied specifically to Druids and Rangers. :D
Crave 12-04-04, 12:58 AM	After looking at the possible builds, I agree with Endarire that Full BAB should cost 3 points rather than 2. To change this, you might need to adjust the costs of barbarian, ranger, and fighter class features. Also, it should be "Three Saves" rather than "Tree Saves", unless it's applied specifically to Druids and Rangers. :D Fixed, Fixed, monk fixed, druid fixed, restriction added. Welcome version 2.0
SearcherOmega 12-04-04, 12:10 PM	One thing my friend (who likes to play rogue types) pointed out to me about Uber Generic -- if everybody chooses Spot and Listen as class skills, it nerfs theif types who rely heavily on Hide and Move Silently (Rogues, Rangers). Since Spot and Listen are very staple skills, it's pretty likely that most people will choose them. You could, of course, make the system work on the 'honors system', but that tends to be a bit weak. Perhaps you should make it so that the higher skill ranks (8 and 6) let you use Spot and Listen, and perhaps set circumstantial limits to 4 skill points or lower (IE: Horizon Walker is the only 4 skill point class (PrC, actually) that I can recall offhand that has 4 skills and both Spot and Listen). Sadly, some skills are just more useful than others. I'd say that Spot, Listen, Search, Hide, Move Silently, and Tumble are the six most important skills (that I can think of offhand). Maybe designate 'Strong Skills', 'Moderate Skills' and 'Weak Skills' and set how many of each can be acquired by a person with a certain skill point set?
SearcherOmega 12-04-04, 12:26 PM	As a compliment, I like your solution to the BAB progression dilemma. Reducing Combatant costs when 1/1 BAB is acquired is an excellent solution that keeps the classes balanced without making 1/1 BAB too cheap (currently, a wizard could have 1/1 BAB and full caster, but with a d4 Hit Die and simple weapons only, it's not a real problem :P). This is looking better and better. Keep up the good work! ^_^
Endarire 12-04-04, 08:10 PM	1: Multiclassing is possible in UG if taken from the prespective of level-based things only affecting that class, like spells. 2: Maybe it's me, but I feel all classes should have one 'free' good base save. -EE
Crave 12-05-04, 12:17 AM	One thing my friend (who likes to play rogue types) pointed out to me about Uber Generic -- if everybody chooses Spot and Listen as class skills, it nerfs theif types who rely heavily on Hide and Move Silently (Rogues, Rangers). Since Spot and Listen are very staple skills, it's pretty likely that most people will choose them. You could, of course, make the system work on the 'honors system', but that tends to be a bit weak. Perhaps you should make it so that the higher skill ranks (8 and 6) let you use Spot and Listen, and perhaps set circumstantial limits to 4 skill points or lower (IE: Horizon Walker is the only 4 skill point class (PrC, actually) that I can recall offhand that has 4 skills and both Spot and Listen). Sadly, some skills are just more useful than others. I'd say that Spot, Listen, Search, Hide, Move Silently, and Tumble are the six most important skills (that I can think of offhand). Maybe designate 'Strong Skills', 'Moderate Skills' and 'Weak Skills' and set how many of each can be acquired by a person with a certain skill point set? As a compliment, I like your solution to the BAB progression dilemma. Reducing Combatant costs when 1/1 BAB is acquired is an excellent solution that keeps the classes balanced without making 1/1 BAB too cheap (currently, a wizard could have 1/1 BAB and full caster, but with a d4 Hit Die and simple weapons only, it's not a real problem :P ). This is looking better and better. Keep up the good work! ^_^ Someone else suggested the same idea when it came to skills. I'm starting to consider it. I think I might have something similar to the "Balance rule" also work with skills. I was thinking that you can choose to have one of the 6 "Power Skills" in your basic package, 2 out of 6 in skillful, 4 out of 6 in adept, and 6 out of 6 in expert. Sound good? Thanks for the compliments, all yall ^_^ 1: Multiclassing is possible in UG if taken from the prespective of level-based things only affecting that class, like spells. 2: Maybe it's me, but I feel all classes should have one 'free' good base save. -EE Some could argue that, but i'm giving everyone the most basic of classes to start with, which is a slightly boosted commoner. Most people (With common sense) would buy at least 1 save. So I totally see where your coming from, but for all purpouses, I'm keeping it at 15 and making it a paid for ability. It should be noted, that in the next update (which includes the DMG and UA) I will have a collum for classes and builds other people make, and for varient rules people might have. If i pull a good enough work session to night, they will be up some time this night or sunday morning.
SearcherOmega 12-05-04, 01:40 AM	Someone else suggested the same idea when it came to skills. I'm starting to consider it. I think I might have something similar to the "Balance rule" also work with skills. I was thinking that you can choose to have one of the 6 "Power Skills" in your basic package, 2 out of 6 in skillful, 4 out of 6 in adept, and 6 out of 6 in expert. Sound good? Thanks for the compliments, all yall ^_^ Sounds very good to me! This way, we can keep things like Horizon Walker (4 skills, Spot and Listen as class) without compeltely nerfing rogues. Also, it provides more incentive to purchase the higher-level 'skill packages'. Perhaps, as mean as it sounds, just completely ban 2+INT classes from taking Spot or Listen, as I cannot find a single core class that has these with less than 4+INT skills (though I haven't searched too hard, maybe I'm wrong). Some could argue that, but i'm giving everyone the most basic of classes to start with, which is a slightly boosted commoner. Most people (With common sense) would buy at least 1 save. So I totally see where your coming from, but for all purpouses, I'm keeping it at 15 and making it a paid for ability. It should be noted, that in the next update (which includes the DMG and UA) I will have a collum for classes and builds other people make, and for varient rules people might have. If i pull a good enough work session to night, they will be up some time this night or sunday morning. I have to agree with you here. Saves are already relatively cheap; if someone really wants that extra build point, they should be able to nerf all their saves. Is it smart? Not in the least. Should they be able to? Yeah, this is Uber Generic! Keep up the good work. :D
Retsej Esiw 12-05-04, 12:27 PM	I just want to say: BRAVO!!!
ArochanoX 12-05-04, 02:36 PM	The system seems consistent enough to be maybe qualified a official WotC product :D Great job! Waiting for system like this for prc:s ;) The tougher presquites, the more points to buy abilities.. Keep on going!
Crave 12-05-04, 04:52 PM	thanks for all the encoraging comments guys. 2/3 of the next book is done, all thats left is feats and class builds. Expect it up by some time tonight.
PsyBomb 12-06-04, 06:24 PM	This is a really entertaining system. I have a DM who's letting me use this one, but I don't know what to call it. It's about halfway between a Monk and a Rogue. 3/4 BAB: 1 point Two Saves: 2 points d6 HD: 1 point Adept: 3 points Unarmored AC bonus: 1 point Sneak Attack: 5 points Unarmored Speed: 2 points Unarmed Strike Damage: 2 points Lawbound: -2 points Total: 15 points Feats: 1st: Expert Fighter 2nd: Evasion 5th: Ki Strike (Magic) 10th: Opportunist 15th: Crippling Strike 20th: Ki Strike (Adamantine) Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Listen, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Tumble.
Crave 12-06-04, 10:19 PM	UBERGENERICS: BOOK TWO Unearthed Arcana & Dungeon Master's Guide CHAPTER ONE: WELCOME! Welcome to the first installment to the Uber Generics supplement series, “Unearthed Arcana and DMG” Here we cover the mechanics in both the Dungeon Master's Guide and Unearthed Arcana. This material can be added onto the original system, and requires the original books to actually use, so no products are given out “for free” and you still gain the full benefit of having the books. CHAPTER TWO: CLASSES & RACES! Unearthed arcana and the DMG both offer interesting ideas for variant classes and races. Most of them can already be done without needing additional material from the UG system, but some things must be addressed. Mechanic Book Description Level Adjustment DMG Level adjustment is easy to fix in the UG system. Simply create all 20 levels for your character, add the necessary level adjustment, and take your first level. It would work just like any other class/race combination with a LA Monster Specialization DMG This is based on the “Hunter of the Undead” variant core class featured in the DMG. Creating a class based with the purpose of defeating one specified enemy is a very narrow goal which can lead to much weakness, so it is now featured in chapter four: restrictions. Prestige Classes DMG Prestige classes have been given there own chapter in this book, so skip strait to chapter three if you want to find out! Epic DMG I don't like epics. I wouldn't touch them with a 12 foot pole. When a “Expanded Epics” esq. book is created, I will consider making extended UG rules for epics. Please do not flood this thread with a flame war about Epics, I have my reasons (and the right) to dislike epic rules. Blood Lines UA Blood lines are identical to how they work in UA. Simply add on the abilities you get, and pull out levels when you need to. Paragons Levels UA All abilities gained during paragon levels have the prerequisite of the race of the paragon you are taking, and any previous paragon abilities. Totems UA When taking a barbarian totem, you simply lose access to the class abilities (that are said to be lost) and are allowed to take the replacement abilities at the appropriate level (and any other prerequisites that might be there if what is gained is a bonus feat). Variant Core Classes UA The abilities to the variant core classes have been made progressions. Check chapter two for details. Domain Wizards UA Domain wizards work just as they do in UA. You can only gain access to the abilities if you meet the following prerequisites: Prepared Casting (arcane). You cannot become a specialist wizard if you are a domain wizard. Specialist Wizard UA All specialist wizard abilities are now progressions in chapter two. Abilities (such as resistance to energy and rapid summoning) can only be gained by losing the ability to ever gain a familiar. They are considered feats, and are featured in Chapter Six: Feats. If you have both Wizard and sorcerer casting styles, the abilities apply only to wizard casting. Spontaneous Divine Casters UA Spontaneous divine casters work exactly as written in UA Favored Enviornment UA Favored environment is now a progression in chapter two Whirling Frenzy UA Whirling Frenzy is now a progression in chapter two Turning Variants UA The turning variants work just as written in UA Aspect of Nature UA Aspect of Nature is now a progression in chapter two Gestalt UA Gestalt rules work as followed: You start with 30 points to build your class instead of 15. Restrictions still apply, and you can still take only one restriction. If your taking levels in a monster class, you spend 15 points at one time, and when your done with your monster class you spend the next 15 points, and begin progressing in what you gave yourself in those second 15 points once your monster class is done. Generic Classes UA ^_-
Crave 12-06-04, 10:20 PM	CHAPTER TWO: PROGRESSIONS! Here are some new progressions you can now use thanks to UA and the DMG Name Value Benefit Aspect of Nature Five Points You gain the aspect of nature ability as listed in UA. Prerequisites: Knowledge nature and wild empathy. ☼Aura of Protection Two Points You gain the aura of protection ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (Abjuration) ☼Spontaneous dispelling One Point You gain the spontaneous dispelling ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (Abjuration) ☼Enhanced summoning Two Points You gain the enhanced summoning ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (conjuration) ☼Enhanced Undead One Point You gain the enhanced undead ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (necromancy) ☼Energy Substitution Two Points You gain the energy substitution ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (evocation) ☼Extended Enchantment One Point You gain the extended enchantment ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (enchantment) ☼Prescience One Point You gain the spontaneous dispelling ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (Divination) Favored Enviornment Two Points You gain the favored enviornment ability as written in UA Favored Organization Two Points You gain the favored organization ability as written in UA ☼Illusion Mastery One Point You gain the illusion mastery ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (illusion) ☼Overcome Resistance One Point You gain the overcome resistance ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (evocation) Whirling Frenzy Three Points You gain the whirling frenzy ability as written in UA. ☼Shadow Shaper Two Points You gain the shadow shaper ability as written in UA. Hide is automatically a granted skill. ☼Social proficiency One Point You gain the social proficiency ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (enchanter) ☼Spell versatility Two Points You gain the spell versatility ability as written in UA. ☼Spontaneous Summoning One Point You gain the spontaneous summoning ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (conjuration) ☼Transmutable Memory One Point You gain the transmutable memory ability as written in UA. Prerequisites: School specialization (transmutation) ☼Undead Apotheosis Two Points You gain the undead apotheosis ability as written in UA. ☼ Only wizard casters can take this progression
Crave 12-06-04, 10:21 PM	CHAPTER THREE: PRESTIGEPROGRESSIONS! And now, for what many people have been waiting for (and some people loathing to come) are prestige progressions! Prestige progressions work just like normal progressions, except their prerequisites must be met before they can be taken. You usually gain the abilities some time in your mid levels (6 – 12). They work just like prestige classes, and just like progressions. Minuses that can be taken from restrictions can also apply to prestige progressions, and any alignment defining factors are also strapped on to your prestige progressions. another way of looking at it is like this: Normally you build your class like this: Step One: Class and points Step Two: Consider your character Step Three: By abilities Step Four: By Progressions Now, certian Progressions (If memory serves) have the prerequisites of an ability. You treat Prestige Progressions the same. The player and DM need to consider when he takes what feats, or if he meets the prerequisites for them at said level. So, you plan out your class with your DM, then buy the ability. Now, lets say you decide to change feats in mid build, and no longer meet the prerequisites. You can respend the points and gain them at a later level, or if the DM decides to have them be retro active, you gain the same ability. If the DM decides to NOT have them retro active (either by his personal choice or because he's evil), then the two of you decide how you gain them. I have the abilities work and grow similar to the prestige class, but spread apart when you gain the ability, so that its more like a core class and so that the progressions are less of a power charge and more of a class ability. So, if your using Prestige Progressions in your Campaign, you should have your players build there class like this: Step One: Class and points Step Two: Consider your character Step Three: By abilities Step Four: By Progressions Step Five: Consider Prestige progressions, decide build Step Six: Buy prestige progression. Another way to use prestige progression is the Evil Genius way: It's similar to "trading in" progressions - think about the precedent set for the Blackguard trading in Paladin levels... However, instead of trading in levels, you trade in progressions for a prestige progression, losing the older one... But not losing any of the abilities you already gained from previous levels ***IF*** you meet the requirements for the new progression. An example: Our thiefy archetype who gets tired of the criminal's life splits town and joins the watch detectives in another city (a common occurance in the 19th century Western US by the way - lots of Sheriffs (Sherrifs?) were wanted in other parts of the country). So, how does he do this? Well, our thiefy archetype will still need his high number of skills, though his class skills would certainly change. So, he gives up his old class skills, taking the new class skills for the detective. The DM and player decide that these detectives may need spot, listen, search, sense motive, but are less likely to require disable device or sleight of hand. So, the class skill list changes. No big deal there. For the BAB, no change in this situation. For the sneak attack, the detectives don't need further progression, so that progression gets dumped. However, the character wants some simple divination magic or other "suitable" class ability deemed to be "worth" 1d6 sneak attack every 2 levels. The character gives up his progression of further sneak attack dice (though he doesn't lose his old abilities, he still has some tricks up his sleeve) in exchange for something appropriate - maybe divination spell like abilities and track feat, I don't know. From this point on, the character (say he's seventh level) progresses as his original class in all ways except sneak attack. He also progresses starting as a first level for purposes of his tracking and divination spells. Naturally, I agree that this system could be abused... So, I would incorporate the -20% XP rule... Your first "class" is your favoured "class". After that you get one set of as many progression changes as you want for free (make it count). AFTER YOUR FIRST CHANGE, each INDIVIDUAL progression changed later is -20% XP, your second individual progression change is -40% XP, your third is -60% XP, and your fourth is -80% XP. All you have to do is IGNORE two rules; 1 that prestige classes don't count towards XP penalties, and 2 that classes within 1 level of each other are fine. evilgenius How you do it is up to the group and DM's joint decision. No matter how you do it, enjoy: Name Value Prerequisites Benefit Dwarven Defense 3 points Dwarven, any lawful, +7 BAB, dodge, endurance, and toughness You gain Defensive stance at 8th level, and every 3 levels there after (11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th) Dwarven Dodge 2 points Dwarven, any lawful, +7 BAB, dodge, endurance, and toughness You gain Uncanny dodge at 9th level, improved uncanny dodge at 15th level and, mobile defense at 18th. You also gain a dodge bonus to your AC, +1 at 8th, +2 at 12th, +3 at 16th and, +4 at 20th. Enhance Arrow Two Points Elf or half elf, +6 BAB, Point Blank Shot, Precise shot, Weapon focus (Long bow or short bow), ability to cast 1st level arcane spells You gain the enhance arrow +1 ability as the Arcane archer. It increases at 7th, 10th, 13th, 16th and, 19th level. Fancy Pants Two Points BAB +6, Perform 3, tumble 5, dodge, mobility and weapon finesse You gain Canny defense at 7th level, enhanced mobility at 9th, grace at 11th and acrobatic charge at 13th. Hierophant Three Points Knowledge (religion) 15 ranks, any metamagic feat, and the ability to cast 7th level divine spells You gain one special Hierophant ability at 14th level, and one additional one at 15th, 17th, 18th and 20th. High Arcana Three points Knowledge (arcana) 15 ranks, spell craft 15 ranks, skill focus (spell craft), spell focus in two schools of magic, ability to cast 7th level arcane spells, and knowledge of 5th level spells or higher of at least 5 different schools You gain one High arcana ability at 14th level, and one additional one at 15th, 17th, 18th and 20th. Keen eye Two Points BAB +6, Perform 3, tumble 5, dodge, mobility and weapon finesse You gain Impromptu reaction +2 at 8th level, Precise strike +1d6 at 12th, elaborate parry at 14th, improved reaction +4 at 16th, deflect arrows at 18th, and precise strike +2d6 at 20th. Lore Two Points Knowledge (any two) 10, skill focus (knowledge [any]), three metamagic feats or item creation feats and, the ability to cast seven different divination spells, one of which must be 3rd level or higher you gain lore as a bonus feat at 9th level, a bonus language at 11th and 15th, greater lore at 13th, and true lore at 17th level. Magic Arrows Three points Elf or half elf, +6 BAB, Point Blank Shot, Precise shot, Weapon focus (Long bow or short bow), ability to cast 1st level arcane spells You gain the imbue arrow, seeker arrow, phase arrow, hail of arrows, and arrow of death feats at 8th level, and every 3 levels there after (8th, 11th, 14th, 17th and, 20th) Planar Mastery Three points Knowledge (the planes) 15, Knowledge (Geography) 8 ranks, endurance You gain Planar master at 13th, 15th, 17th, 19th and, 20th level. Poison Use One point Craft (alchemy) 8 You gain the poison use ability at 6th level, and a +1 against poison at 7th level, and every 3 levels there after (10th, 13th, 16th and 19th). Secrets Three points Knowledge (any two) 10, skill focus (knowledge [any]), three metamagic feats or item creation feats and, the ability to cast seven different divination spells, one of which must be 3rd level or higher You gain one secret at 8th level, followed by additional secrets at 10th, 12th, 14th and 16th. Shadow Dance Five Points Move silently 8, hide 10, perform dance 5, combat reflexes, dodge and mobility. At 9th level, you gain dark vision (as per the shadow dancer ability). You also gain Shadow illusion and summon shadow at 10th level. At 11th level, you gain shadow jump 20 feet, which then increases to 30 at 12th, 40 at 13th, 60 at 14th, 80 at 15th, 100 at 16th, 120 at 17th, 140 at 18th, and 160 at 20th. Sneaky Caster Three Points Any non lawful, Decipher script 7, disable device 7, escape artist 7, knowledge (arcana) 7, ability to cast mage hand and one 3rd level arcane spell, and 2d6 sneak attack You gain the Ranged Legerdemain ability at 9th level, and additional uses at 13th and 17th level. You also gain Impromptu sneak attack at 11th level and an additional use at 15th level. Thaumaturgist Three Points Spell Focus Conjuration, ability to cast lesser planar ally You gain the following abilities/bonus feats at the said level: Improved ally at 8th, augment summoning at 10th, extended summoning at 12th, contingent conjuration at 14th and planar cohort at 15th. Terrain Mastery Two Points Knowledge (Geography) 8 ranks, Endurance You gain the Terrain mastery ability as 6th, 8th, 10th 12th and 14th level.
Crave 12-06-04, 10:22 PM	CHAPTER FOUR: RESTRICTIONS! Restrictions are what give a character a bit more umph, flavor wise and class wise. Restrictions place you into win lose situations, where you gain a bit more power, but lose that power if you do something wrong. You can redeem yourself into your previous alignment as stated in the description of the restriction. Restrictions are different from feats, progressions and abilities because they only give you a few feats or special nick knacks to your class for the first couple of levels. Battle Sorcerer You spent more time practicing combat then casting spells. You loose everything mentioned under “spell casting” under the battle sorcerer, but 9th level arcane casting (sorcerer) cost one less point. You are also able to cast arcane spells in armor with no spell failure. Battle Wizard You spent more time practicing combat then casting spells. You loose access to one school of magic, and cannot specialize in a school of magic. You cannot gain a familiar, you cannot gain one extra spell per day, you cannot get any of the progressions or feats which would require you to specialize in a school of magic. You cannot become a domain wizard. In exchange, 9th level arcane wizard casting cost two less points. Cloistered worship You learned how to worship and show faith through extensive study. You are forced to have a low BAB, and a hit dice no higher then d6, but you gain access to the knowledge domain (No matter what deity you worship), you gain lore as a free bonus feat at first level, and divine magic (Worship/belief) cost one point less, as does the skillful, adept and expert abilities. Monster Bound You spent more time practicing combat against one specific monster. You gain two more points to spend on all your class abilities, but all of your progressions that would normally deal damage to an enermy (except for unarmed strike damage) deal damage to one specific enemy type. If you gain the favored enemy ability, it only works on that enemy. If you have choosen a creature type that is immune to sneak attack damage (such as undead or constructs) you are able to deal sneak attack damage to them. Spell effect everyone, but damage dealing spells and debuffs only work on the choosen monster type. Planar binding You are bound to planar travel and magic. You gain magical empathy, a animal companion (as per ranger) with a template that makes it extraplanar (IE: Feindish, celestial, elemental, magical, spectral). Also, planar mastery cost one less point for you, and speak/write language gives you access to (abyssal, aquan, auran, celestial ignan, infernal and terran only).. Inexchange, you cannot be healed by divine (nature) magic, you cannot gain wildshape: (Animal or plant), you cannot have knowledge (nature), you cannot cast divine (nature) magic, and will always receive a -4 when using handle animal checks on normal animals. You cannot learn druidic. Totem Choose a barbarian totem. You no longer have access to any of the progressions or feats mentioned, but you gain access to special abilities only granted by that totem. All totem abilities are considered feats, and have the prerequisite Totem (Appropriate totem) and the minimum level of the ability (As started in UA). Sage You Are smarter then most normal individuals. You gain lore as a free feat, and gain an additional +2 to all lore checks. You also gain access to 4 knowledge skill for every one skill you can choose at the beginning of your class creation process. However, do to your study you lack creativity. You cannot use any magic outside of intelligence or wisdom base, you cannot gain the perform skill, you cannot gain any abilities revolving around performance, and you are restricted to the alighnements good, nuetral and evil. Urban Base You are bound to the urban way of life. You gain urban tracking at 1st level, wild empathy (at one half your level, as per ranger), an animal companion (cannot excede medium size), you gain access to the knowledge (local). You gain the swift tracker ability (as in UA). Inexchange, you cannot gain wildshape: (Animal or plant)you lose access to spells that allow you to communicate, command, charm, reduce, detect, diminish and grow plants or animals. You cannot cast snare, tree shape, water walk, tree stride or bears endurance. You do however, gain access to all the spells on the urban ranger's spell list. You cannot learn druidic. You also cannot gain woodland stride. Zealot of the gods extension: Another way of meeting the requirements for zealot of the gods is to have an appropriate code of conduct. This way, you do not need to worship a god but can still have all the benefits and downsides to “Zealot of the Gods”. You can also worship a pantheon of gods, but your alignment must meet the average alignment of the gods in the pantheon (If three gods are chaotic good, two gods are good and one good is lawful good, then you must be chaotic good.)
Crave 12-06-04, 10:22 PM	CHAPTER FIVE: BONUS FEATS The following are new bonus feats: Cobra Style: You gain the cobra strike 6th level ability. Prerequisites are identical Denying Style: You gain the Denying stance 6th level ability. Prerequisites are identical Hand and foot Style: You gain the hand and foot 6th level ability. Prerequisites are identical Invisible eye Style: You gain the invisible eye 6th level ability. Prerequisites are identical Overwhelming Style: You gain the overwhelming attack 6th level ability. Prerequisites are identical Passive Style: You gain the passive way 6th level ability. Prerequisites are identical Sleeping Style: You gain the sleeping Tiger 6th level ability. Prerequisites are identical Undying Style: You gain the Undying way 6th level ability. Prerequisites are identical Magical empathy: You gain the planar ranger's version of Wild Empathy. Prerequisites: Knowledge (the planes) 4. If you take this feat, you cannot take wild empathy Resistance to energy: as the abjurer ability. If you take this you cannot gain a familiar. Prerequisites: Specialist wizard (Abjurer) Rapid summoning: as the conjurer ability. If you take this you cannot gain a familiar. Prerequisites: Specialist wizard (conjurer) Enhanced Awareness: as the diviner ability. If you take this you cannot gain a familiar. Prerequisites: Specialist wizard (diviner) Cohort: as the enchanter ability. If you take this you cannot gain a familiar. You may only take this feat once. If you gain the leadership feat, all negatives from this ability are nullified, and it becomes your cohort. Energy affinity: as the evoker ability. If you take this you cannot gain a familiar. Prerequisites: Specialist wizard (evoker) Chain of disbelieft: as the illusionist ability. If you take this you cannot gain a familiar. Prerequisites: Specialist wizard (illusionist) Skeletal minion: as the necromancer ability. If you take this you cannot gain a familiar. Prerequisites: Specialist wizard (necromancer) Enhance Attribute: as the transmuter ability. If you take this you cannot gain a familiar. Prerequisites: Specialist wizard (transmuter) Whirling Frenzy: You gain whirling frenzy. You may take this ability multiple times, each time you may use it one more time per day. Prerequisites: +1 BAB. If you want to take this feat an additional time, the prerequisites change to an additional +3 the first time, and an additional +4 each other time (so second time +4, and every extra time its another +4, so +8, +12, +16, and +20) Greater Frenzy: Your frenzy ability is identical to that of an 11th level Whirling Frenzy. Prerequisites: +11 BAB, whirling frenzy Frenzied Evasion: As the Whirling Frenzy Evasion Prerequisites: +14 BAB, Greater Frenzy Tireless Frenzy: As tireless rage but with whirling frenzy Prerequisites: +17 BAB, Greater Frenzy Mighty Frenzy: Your frenzy ability is identical to that of an 11th level Whirling Frenzy. You gain frenzy one extra time per day. Prerequisites: +20 BAB, Greater frenzy
Crave 12-06-04, 10:27 PM	CHAPTER SIX: CLASSES! Arcane Archer: 1/1 (3), Two Saves (2), d8 (2), skillful (1), arcane student (any) (2), Enhance arrow (2), Magic Arrow (3) = 15 Feats: 1st: Point blank shot 2nd: weapon focus (longbow or short bow) 5th: Precise shot Arcane Trickster: Two Saves (2), adept (3), arcane teacher (any) (4), sneak attack (5), sneaky caster (3), lawless (-2) = 15 Archmage: Arcane master (12), high arcana (3), one save (1), any one restriction granting (-1) or more = 15 Feats: 1st: Skill focus (spellcraft) 2nd: Spell focus 5th: Spell focus Assassin: 3/4 (1), d6 (1), One Save (1), skillful (1), arcane student (any) (2), sneak attack (5), poison use (1), squire (3) = 15 Blackguard: 1/1 (3), one save (1), d10 (3), Heavy Combatant (3 - 1), smite progression (3), Remove disease (1), Divine student (belief/religion) (2), Zealot of the gods = 15 Feats: 1st: Cleave 2nd: Improve Sunder 5th: Power attack 10th: Sneak attack 15th: Sneak Attack Duelist: 1/1 (3), one save (1), d10 (3), Keen eye (2), Fancy Pants (2) Squire (3), Skillful (1), light combatant (1 -1) = 15 Feats: 1st: Dodge 2nd: Mobility 4th: Weapon Finesse Dwarven Defendender: 1/1 (3), one save (1), d12 (4), Heavy combatant (3 -1), dwarven dodge (2), dwarven defense (3) trap sense (1 - 1) damage reduction (1 - 1), lawbound = 15 Feats: 1st: Dodge 2nd: Endurance 5th: Toughness Eldritch Knight: 1/1 (3), one save (1), d6 (1), light combatant (1 -1), arcane master (wizard) (12 - 2), battle wizard = 15 Hierophant: Divine master (8), d8 (2), hierophant (3), two saves (2) = 15 Feats: 1st: Metamagic Horizon walker: 1/1 (3), two saves (2), d8 (2), Medium Combatant (2 -1), Favored Enviornment (2), planar master (3), terrain master (2) = 15 Feats: 1st: Endurance (personal favorite) Lore Master/theurge: One save (1), skillful (1), lore (2), secrets (3), arcane teacher (4), divine teacher (4), sage = 15 Psybomb's Monk/Rogue: 3/4 (1), Two Saves (2), d6 (1), Adept (3), unarmored AC bonus (1), Unarmored speed (2), unarmed strike damage (2), Rage (3), Damage Reduction (1), lawbound (-2) = 15 Feats: 1st: Expert Fighter 2nd: Evasion 5th: Ki Strike (Magic) 10th: Opportunist 15th: Crippling Strike 20th: Ki Strike (Adamantine) Class Skills: Balance, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Listen, Jump, Move Silently, Open Lock, Perform, Search, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Tumble. Shadow Dancer: 3/4 (1), d8 (2), One Save (1), adept (3), shadow dance (5), squire (3) = 15 Feats: 1st: Expert Fighter 2nd: Evasion 5th: Ki Strike (Magic) 10th: Opportunist 15th: Crippling Strike 20th: Ki Strike (Adamantine) Thaumaturgist: Divine master (8), d8 (2), Thaumaturgist (3), two saves (2) = 15 Feats: 1st: spell focus (conjuration) Amazon.com Wishlist -_^ (http://amazon.com/gp/registry/3OCQMG2MEYC8R)
BronzeBeard 12-07-04, 09:29 AM	me like very much I wanted you to know that this one is added to my favorites. and I check this system.
Endarire 12-11-04, 12:19 AM	You have the SRD and hopefully you have friends from which you can borrow books. -EE
Crave 12-11-04, 03:32 PM	You have the SRD and hopefully you have friends from which you can borrow books. -EE Curses, hoped that would work -_^. Anyways, hope you enjoy the new stuff added.
DaTedinator 12-15-04, 10:46 PM	Hey, just for the record I love this, and I plan to use it in my next campaign. Just one problem about the new stuff from UA and the DMG. Some of the restrictions, Sage and cloistered worship in particular, but others (though not as much), don't seem to have any real penalty assuming your character wasn't going to have any of the things they restrict. Does this make it so any wizard gain access to the knowledge domain and get the skill abilities cheaper for free? Can a neutral non-spellcaster who doesn't have perform (a rather large category) get Lore for free? It just seems like a few of them need to be more specific. And the prestige progressions; I thought you chose your progressions at first level; how could you meet any requirements then? And if you can wait to choose progressions, are changes retroactive? I just need some clarification on this point. Thanks!
Crave 12-16-04, 08:10 PM	Hey, just for the record I love this, and I plan to use it in my next campaign. Just one problem about the new stuff from UA and the DMG. Some of the restrictions, Sage and cloistered worship in particular, but others (though not as much), don't seem to have any real penalty assuming your character wasn't going to have any of the things they restrict. Does this make it so any wizard gain access to the knowledge domain and get the skill abilities cheaper for free? Can a neutral non-spellcaster who doesn't have perform (a rather large category) get Lore for free? It just seems like a few of them need to be more specific. And the prestige progressions; I thought you chose your progressions at first level; how could you meet any requirements then? And if you can wait to choose progressions, are changes retroactive? I just need some clarification on this point. Thanks! Thank you for the feed back, keep us posted as to how it's working out. The prestige progressions work like this: Step One: Class and points Step Two: Consider your character Step Three: By abilities Step Four: By Progressions Now, certian Progressions (If memory serves) have the prerequisites of an ability. You treat Prestige Progressions the same. The player and DM need to consider when he takes what feats, or if he meets the prerequisites for them at said level. So, you plan out your class with your DM, then buy the ability. Now, lets say you decide to change feats in mid build, and no longer meet the prerequisites. You can respend the points and gain them at a later level, or if the DM decides to have them be retro active, you gain the same ability. If the DM decides to NOT have them retro active (either by his personal choice or because he's evil), then the two of you decide how you gain them. I have the abilities work and grow similar to the prestige class, but spread apart when you gain the ability, so that its more like a core class and so that the progressions are less of a power charge and more of a class ability. So, if your using Prestige Progressions in your Campaign, you should have your players build there class like this: Step One: Class and points Step Two: Consider your character Step Three: By abilities Step Four: By Progressions Step Five: Consider PRestige progressions, decide build Step Six: Buy prestige progression. As for the restrictions thing, I've been re-thinking both Sage and Cloistered. I'm thinking of making cloistered a divine specified restriction (Kind of like Zealot of the gods), since the class it is based off is much more divine in nature. And the restriction does not GRANT him knowledge, it gives him the choice of taking it as a domain, or a bonus feat (Feautured in CD). Psionics (I am hoping to Guarentee) will be done by december 25th, but I must be honest and say nothing has been written yet (but it has been thought of plenty). I'm going to begin writing the Complete series after that, so by some time in feburary you should expect to see all four books updated and posted. It WILL take a while, so don't expect much during the time from december 25th to about februrary 21st (Expected time for the Complete Uber Generics release). The Race books are still to be in question (since no one in my group has really made any plans to purchase it, and I'm putting my brain on overdrive to see where i can pull out some dough to buy it.) Some good news though, is that the monster series will probably be worked on during the long wait for the complete update. Draconomicon will most likely come first, and libris mortis will be left in question. Once the Race books and Complete series are posted, i will keep UG as a side project and work on my campaign setting ideas (1 d20 modern, one D&D/d20 modern esq rules). I will also work on my version of D20 Fantasy, and publish some prestige classes (when inspiration comes). Updates will be few and far between, but you can expect this to some day move from the boards and onto its own website. Until then, this is as complete an update i can give everyone. So just to recap: Psionics December 25th Complete UG Feburary 21st Races (Hopefully) March/april Monster books will be posted at random, or if bugged enough. Enjoy what comes, and the classes section will be updated this saturday. Happy chirstmahannuhkwanzikah/decemberween/wintermas to all!
evilgenius 12-17-04, 01:43 PM	call me stupid but... I don't "get" how the prestige classes work. Do you choose the prestige class when you make your character? What if I have a UG generated character, and at seventh level I want to take him in a new direction say by giving up my lawless sneaky ways and joining the local detectives of the watch. In the old system, this would be a rogue who multiclassed into a prestige class for some sort of detective. How would this be done in the UG system you've designed? I guess my question is: Is it not possible to change your character's direction? This is a roleplaying issue, not a powergaming one, as characters may (and often do) develop over time, changing their focus. Could you print an example of a character build with a few levels of a "Base" UG class and then a change over to a "Prestige" class? Thanks. evilgenius
Crave 12-17-04, 07:58 PM	call me stupid but... I don't "get" how the prestige classes work. Do you choose the prestige class when you make your character? What if I have a UG generated character, and at seventh level I want to take him in a new direction say by giving up my lawless sneaky ways and joining the local detectives of the watch. In the old system, this would be a rogue who multiclassed into a prestige class for some sort of detective. How would this be done in the UG system you've designed? I guess my question is: Is it not possible to change your character's direction? This is a roleplaying issue, not a powergaming one, as characters may (and often do) develop over time, changing their focus. Could you print an example of a character build with a few levels of a "Base" UG class and then a change over to a "Prestige" class? Thanks. evilgenius I get what your saying. See, a prestige progression works exactly like an original progression, except that you buy it after you buy your normal progressions, however your point DOES bring up some good questions. I would say that the character regains the points spent, and may use them again on another prestige progression or normal progression. Also, in other seneraios like this, you can ask your DM if you can make another new base class. For *this* specific reason, multiclassing seems reasonable, and should be considered, but i warn you head of time that it can easily be taken advantage of, if say a character spens 3 points to get high BAB, 4 for all saves, another 3 for adept (taking the same skills as before), and 3 more points for a d10 hit dice, leaving him one extra point to do as he wishes, which he can spend for smite 2 points, and continue building this class over and over and over again for 20 levels, thus giving him 20d10 hit dice, +40 in all saves, and a few other disgusting mentionables. Thanks for the feed back, everytime you guys post, i will keep this in track and update when the time seems right. I hope this system works like wine (with age, comes greatness)
evilgenius 12-18-04, 01:29 PM	I get what your saying. See, a prestige progression works exactly like an original progression, except that you buy it after you buy your normal progressions, however your point DOES bring up some good questions. I would say that the character regains the points spent, and may use them again on another prestige progression or normal progression. Also, in other seneraios like this, you can ask your DM if you can make another new base class. For *this* specific reason, multiclassing seems reasonable, and should be considered, but i warn you head of time that it can easily be taken advantage of, if say a character spens 3 points to get high BAB, 4 for all saves, another 3 for adept (taking the same skills as before), and 3 more points for a d10 hit dice, leaving him one extra point to do as he wishes, which he can spend for smite 2 points, and continue building this class over and over and over again for 20 levels, thus giving him 20d10 hit dice, +40 in all saves, and a few other disgusting mentionables. Thanks for the feed back, everytime you guys post, i will keep this in track and update when the time seems right. I hope this system works like wine (with age, comes greatness) Crave, I gotta say - I think you have done an incredible job here. This is exactly what I am looking for in a character design system. A suggestion for how to incorporate character's direction changes; It's similar to what you said about "trading in" progressions - think about the precedent set for the Blackguard trading in Paladin levels... However, instead of trading in levels, you trade in progressions for a prestige progression, losing the older one... But not losing any of the abilities you already gained from previous levels ***IF*** you meet the requirements for the new progression. An example: Our thiefy archetype who gets tired of the criminal's life splits town and joins the watch detectives in another city (a common occurance in the 19th century Western US by the way - lots of Sheriffs (Sherrifs?) were wanted in other parts of the country). So, how does he do this? Well, our thiefy archetype will still need his high number of skills, though his class skills would certainly change. So, he gives up his old class skills, taking the new class skills for the detective. The DM and player decide that these detectives may need spot, listen, search, sense motive, but are less likely to require disable device or sleight of hand. So, the class skill list changes. No big deal there. For the BAB, no change in this situation. For the sneak attack, the detectives don't need further progression, so that progression gets dumped. However, the character wants some simple divination magic or other "suitable" class ability deemed to be "worth" 1d6 sneak attack every 2 levels. The character gives up his progression of further sneak attack dice (though he doesn't lose his old abilities, he still has some tricks up his sleeve) in exchange for something appropriate - maybe divination spell like abilities and track feat, I don't know. From this point on, the character (say he's seventh level) progresses as his original class in all ways except sneak attack. He also progresses starting as a first level for purposes of his tracking and divination spells. Naturally, I agree that this system could be abused... So, I would incorporate the -20% XP rule... Your first "class" is your favoured "class". After that you get one set of as many progression changes as you want for free (make it count). AFTER YOUR FIRST CHANGE, each INDIVIDUAL progression changed later is -20% XP, your second individual progression change is -40% XP, your third is -60% XP, and your fourth is -80% XP. All you have to do is IGNORE two rules; 1 that prestige classes don't count towards XP penalties, and 2 that classes within 1 level of each other are fine. I don't know, I thought of this just this minute, haven't thought it through completely... Any thoughts? L8er evilgenius
Crave 12-21-04, 09:30 PM	Crave, I gotta say - I think you have done an incredible job here. This is exactly what I am looking for in a character design system. A suggestion for how to incorporate character's direction changes; It's similar to what you said about "trading in" progressions - think about the precedent set for the Blackguard trading in Paladin levels... However, instead of trading in levels, you trade in progressions for a prestige progression, losing the older one... But not losing any of the abilities you already gained from previous levels ***IF*** you meet the requirements for the new progression. An example: Our thiefy archetype who gets tired of the criminal's life splits town and joins the watch detectives in another city (a common occurance in the 19th century Western US by the way - lots of Sheriffs (Sherrifs?) were wanted in other parts of the country). So, how does he do this? Well, our thiefy archetype will still need his high number of skills, though his class skills would certainly change. So, he gives up his old class skills, taking the new class skills for the detective. The DM and player decide that these detectives may need spot, listen, search, sense motive, but are less likely to require disable device or sleight of hand. So, the class skill list changes. No big deal there. For the BAB, no change in this situation. For the sneak attack, the detectives don't need further progression, so that progression gets dumped. However, the character wants some simple divination magic or other "suitable" class ability deemed to be "worth" 1d6 sneak attack every 2 levels. The character gives up his progression of further sneak attack dice (though he doesn't lose his old abilities, he still has some tricks up his sleeve) in exchange for something appropriate - maybe divination spell like abilities and track feat, I don't know. From this point on, the character (say he's seventh level) progresses as his original class in all ways except sneak attack. He also progresses starting as a first level for purposes of his tracking and divination spells. Naturally, I agree that this system could be abused... So, I would incorporate the -20% XP rule... Your first "class" is your favoured "class". After that you get one set of as many progression changes as you want for free (make it count). AFTER YOUR FIRST CHANGE, each INDIVIDUAL progression changed later is -20% XP, your second individual progression change is -40% XP, your third is -60% XP, and your fourth is -80% XP. All you have to do is IGNORE two rules; 1 that prestige classes don't count towards XP penalties, and 2 that classes within 1 level of each other are fine. I don't know, I thought of this just this minute, haven't thought it through completely... Any thoughts? L8er evilgenius I'm feelin it. This could work easy. I'll update all the most recent recomendations on christmas eve, and post psionic rules late christmas eve. Post a change you might want to suggest some time betwen today and thursday, about 11 pm eastern. Peace.
ArochanoX 12-22-04, 05:02 AM	There's a some kind of flaw I think, because you can be 9th level caster in both druid and wizard type casting. lvl9 arcane casting 12points lvl9 divine casting 8 points battle wizard (arcane -2points) lawbound (arcane -1point, divine -1point) naturekeeper (divine(nature) -1 point) total: lvl9 arcane casting 9points lvl9 druid casting 6points total 15 points For both spellcastings I use wisdom as a casting stat, second stat would be con and third dex due poor saves and poor hd.
Crave 12-22-04, 11:36 AM	There's some kind of flaw here, I think, because you can be a 9th level caster in both druidic and wizard casting. 9th arcane casting 12points 9th divine casting 8 points battle wizard (arcane -2points) lawbound (arcane -1point, divine -1point) naturekeeper (divine (nature) -1 point) total: lvl9 arcane casting 9points lvl9 druid casting 6points total 15 points For both spellcastings I use wisdom as a casting stat, second stat would be con and third dex due poor saves and poor hd. There are a few flaws with your class, the first is you can only take one restriction. Also, you have no BAB, no HD, no saves, and poor skills. Sure, you could cast some good stuff, but once your done with your casting, your dead. A character like that wouldn't survive very far during the first few levels, even though its very powerful at later levels. I did that on purpouse to stop something like this. You COULD however, use this: Keeper of the magi's order 6th level casting wizard (arcane) (4 -1), 6th level casting divine (nature) (4 - 1), 2 high saves (2), d6 (1), adept (3), slowfall (2) Law bound There, you have a very "Anime" type spell caster. Forsively lawful, caster of both types of spells, high reflex save and will save, d6 spell casting, 6 + skills per level, and slow fall. - edit (SWEET WE MADE THE 4th PAGE! Keep those post commin'!)
ArochanoX 12-22-04, 12:16 PM	the first is you can only take one restriction Somehow I must have misread that part of the text.. :D Good I can't have that class after all!
Ra-Tiel 12-22-04, 01:05 PM	I have to congratulate you for Uber Generics, Crave! I've been pulling similar thoughts out of my mind lately, but I could have never done it so damn good as you! :cheer: :cheer: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: :clap: :clap: :cheer: :cheer:
theHermit 12-24-04, 03:24 PM	I love this system! I'm gonna adopt this in my next campaign!!! Keep up the good work. *subscribes to thread*
theHermit 12-24-04, 03:28 PM	Also, if you don't mind, I'm going to copy all this into a document and pdf-it for my viewing ease. I'll post it here if ya want. EDIT: PDF'ed with minor formatting changes and the odd spelling fix :) UberGenerics (Beta 2.0) PDF Version (http://www.brambletyefarm.com/UGeneric.pdf) EDIT #2: This is only the first book, the second one I haven't got around to yet. :P
Crave 12-25-04, 02:54 AM	I have to congratulate you for Uber Generics, Crave! I've been pulling similar thoughts out of my mind lately, but I could have never done it so damn good as you! :cheer: :cheer: :clap: :clap: :bow: :bow: :clap: :clap: :cheer: :cheer: I love this system! I'm gonna adopt this in my next campaign!!! Keep up the good work. *subscribes to thread* Also, if you don't mind, I'm going to copy all this into a document and pdf-it for my viewing ease. I'll post it here if ya want. EDIT: PDF'ed with minor formatting changes and the odd spelling fix :) UberGenerics (Beta 2.0) PDF Version (http://www.brambletyefarm.com/UGeneric.pdf) EDIT #2: This is only the first book, the second one I haven't got around to yet. :P Did i ever mention how much I love you guys? Update is coming up, Psionics should be up some time christmas night. Check UA/DMG and UG book 1 for updates
theHermit 12-26-04, 12:58 PM	Did i ever mention how much I love you guys? Update is coming up, Psionics should be up some time christmas night. Check UA/DMG and UG book 1 for updates I'll copy the new stuff when I get a chance, I'm at my future parents-in-law's house right now. Merry X-Mas everyone! EDIT: Oh, a side note. Once you get this finalized and I pdf-it I'm gonna have one printed and bound for myself. I love this concept and I find books much easier to read. I know a place that'll possibly do it very cheaply (~$10.00 :)) and there's always kinkos...or something, so I can have a book version of UberGenerics! :-D EDIT #2: Also, I'm updating the content slightly so that it's OGL compatible. as it is, it's skirting the edge of copyrights by being out on the internet (the pdf version. I'm pretty sure wizard's doesn't care about the posts on this board :)) (Just have to remove the words "Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Unearthed Arcana". Oh, and add the OGL liscense on the end... :)). Thanks to the fact that the SRD is OGL, I can do this. EDIT #3: Typo in the PDF version: Expert was set at 4 points. It's supposed to be 5. Also, did not include the description for the Remove Disease progression. EDIT #4: Error in both versions (in regards to Expert): 7 extra skills = 7+10 = 17, not 21. :) EDIT #5: The rouge has lost it's Evasion/Improved Evasion Skills in this sstem. Where should we put those?
Crave 12-27-04, 01:35 AM	I'll copy the new stuff when I get a chance, I'm at my future parents-in-law's house right now. Merry X-Mas everyone! EDIT: Oh, a side note. Once you get this finalized and I pdf-it I'm gonna have one printed and bound for myself. I love this concept and I find books much easier to read. I know a place that'll possibly do it very cheaply (~$10.00 :)) and there's always kinkos...or something, so I can have a book version of UberGenerics! :-D EDIT #2: Also, I'm updating the content slightly so that it's OGL compatible. as it is, it's skirting the edge of copyrights by being out on the internet (the pdf version. I'm pretty sure wizard's doesn't care about the posts on this board :)) (Just have to remove the words "Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Unearthed Arcana". Oh, and add the OGL liscense on the end... :)). Thanks to the fact that the SRD is OGL, I can do this. EDIT #3: Typo in the PDF version: Expert was set at 4 points. It's supposed to be 5. Also, did not include the description for the Remove Disease progression. EDIT #4: Error in both versions (in regards to Expert): 7 extra skills = 7+10 = 17, not 21. :) EDIT #5: The rouge has lost it's Evasion/Improved Evasion Skills in this sytem. Where should we put those? Speaking of "OGL" and "Books", how many of you would actually BUY an Uber Generics books? You know, filled with all kinds of....stuff. I'm thinking about making a webpage where I'd place all my varient systems and stuff. I've got a lot of ideas, and I've love to make it all OGL compatible and find publishers and all that good stuff, but unfortunately for me, I've got stufff in the way. Like college decisions and crap. *Sigh* I hate having this money on the mind like super entreupenur mind and not being old enough to use it. If I do find a webpage were i can put all this stuff, UG will be free, and so will all its updates, but I think it'd be cool to put out a 200 some odd page filled with previously created NPCs, monsters, foes, classes and stuff all using the UG system. It'd have all the stuff featured in the first, second (and soon to come) 3rd books. It'd also feature varient builds that my friends, you guys and I have made. It'd probably also have some pictures in it done by some friends of mine or that I'd have to commission. I'd also probably start putting out some other books featuring other systems I've thought up of that I've yet to release (IE: Varient magic system, a D20 modern type thing 'cept with fantasy classes ((and prestige classes)), and a campaign setting (or two) that I came up with). If the site does well enough...It'll keep rising up from there. Speaking of the 3rd book, I'm REALLY sorry I haven't finished it yet. I PROMISE It'll be done before new years. My Decemberween gifts have been....Grabbing. To say the least I'm hooked on Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories. Thanks for all the feed back thus far you guys. Oh, and BTW, I suggest that instead of getting a fully bound book "the Hermit", that you get a book like thing with a small three ringed binder in it. That way you can constantly take out pages and put them back in. I'd love feedback from everyone as to how the system is doing in all of your campaigns. Anywho, thanks, love you guys, and please continue to tell me what you think Peace - Crave
theHermit 12-27-04, 01:55 AM	Thanks for all the feed back thus far you guys. Oh, and BTW, I suggest that instead of getting a fully bound book "the Hermit", that you get a book like thing with a small three ringed binder in it. That way you can constantly take out pages and put them back in. I'd love feedback from everyone as to how the system is doing in all of your campaigns. Anywho, thanks, love you guys, and please continue to tell me what you think Peace - Crave It's Philip, if you want. I usually print out things in book format (having already printed 1 book of NPCs and locations for my homebrew campaign setting. try www.cafepress.com (http://www.cafepress.com), they print books for you at extremely reasonable prices (and allow you to sell them with markup. You don't get professional editing or anything, but hey, it works. :) BTW, any comments on the Evasion/IE issue? I may have missed something, but it seems to be missing.
theHermit 12-27-04, 02:26 AM	Barbarian 1/1 (3), One Save (1), d12 (4), Skillful (1), Medium Combatant (2 - 1), Rage (3), Damage Reduction (1), Trap sense (1) = 15 Level Feats 1. Fast Movement 2. Uncanny Dodge 3. 4. 5. Improved Uncanny Dodge 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Extra 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. Extra 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. Extra Result: 3 extra feats...not bad. Bard Bard: 3/4 (1), Two saves (2), d6 (1), Adept (3), Light Combatant (1), Bardic Music (2), Inspire courage (1), Arcane Teacher (4) = 15 Level Feats 1. Lore 2. Extra 3. 4. 5. Extra 6. 7. 8. 9. 10. Extra 11. 12. 13. 14. 15. Extra 16. 17. 18. 19. 20. Extra Result: 4 extra feats... Cleric: 3/4 (1), twos saves (2), d8 (2), Medium Combatant (2), Divine master (Beliefs/religion) (8) = 15 Result: All the bonus feats are unused...hrm.... Druid: 3/4 (1), twos saves (2), d6 (1), Divine master (Nature) (8 - 1), wildshape (4 - 1), skillful (1), nature keeper = 15 The feats for druids don’t really fit. I’m okay with this. Moving on... Skipping fighter...it’s perfect. Monk: 3/4 (1), Three saves (4), d8 (2), skillful (1), slowfall (2 - 1), unarmored speed (2), unarmored strike (2), AC bonus when unarmored (1 - 1) Body (2), Law bound/Less = 15 points The monk looses access to Evasion and Improved Evasion at the appropriate levels...not sure why... Haven’t done the rest of the classes...point it out if I’ve messed something up, but I seem to be confused about some specifics. Some classes get extra feats (as compared to the SRD 3.5) and some lose features (only a little). I love this system and want to see it work :) keep up the good work man! EDIT: Also, the 3.5 Monk has feats at 1st, 2nd, & 6th levels along with all its features. I don't belive this is possible under this system, but it's close.
taltamir 12-27-04, 04:23 AM	oooh, this is nice... Don't worry about not being able to recreate all the core classes with a standard design.. this will be impossible since those core classes were NOT created using such a generalist template. Also... how about seperating the skillpoints per level and the amount of class skills? Have a way to calculate them, instead of just pairing up certain set amount of class skills with set amount of skills per level. (so you can have a high int character with not so many skillpoints per level... like a 2+int... but lots of class skills). And an option for "all X" skills... things such as craft, profession, and knowledge have that variant in the core rules. And it seems like a good idea here too. Something like: 1 more point per 2 more class skills 1 more point per 2 more skills per level above 2+int 2 or 3 points all knowledge 1 or 2 points all craft 0 or 1 point all profession (since those are practically useless... heck, give profession as class skill for everyone, including commoners, for free...) I mean, you already accounted for certain skills being BETTER but making them special... why not account for certain skills being LESS useful... (btw, should spellcraft be something special?)
theHermit 12-27-04, 12:25 PM	oooh, this is nice... Don't worry about not being able to recreate all the core classes with a standard design.. this will be impossible since those core classes were NOT created using such a generalist template. Also... how about seperating the skillpoints per level and the amount of class skills? Have a way to calculate them, instead of just pairing up certain set amount of class skills with set amount of skills per level. (so you can have a high int character with not so many skillpoints per level... like a 2+int... but lots of class skills). And an option for "all X" skills... things such as craft, profession, and knowledge have that variant in the core rules. And it seems like a good idea here too. Something like: 1 more point per 2 more class skills 1 more point per 2 more skills per level above 2+int 2 or 3 points all knowledge 1 or 2 points all craft 0 or 1 point all profession (since those are practically useless... heck, give profession as class skill for everyone, including commoners, for free...) I mean, you already accounted for certain skills being BETTER but making them special... why not account for certain skills being LESS useful... (btw, should spellcraft be something special?) Take a look at the commoner base class. All the profession and craft skills are included in that package. Note: True on the exact base class thing...I guess I'm just weird. Okay, but I'm gonna change some things in the version I use. Crave, I'll let you know what I find works the best for me. :w00t:
theHermit 12-28-04, 01:15 AM	I had an idea.... what would people think of: UberGenerics Class Creation Competition!!! Entries could be graded on rules usage, originality, etc. I think it would be cool. Just an idea.
ArochanoX 12-28-04, 03:28 AM	I like it!
taltamir 12-28-04, 04:47 AM	and we could try to break the rules some :P... the munchikinism fire test. Oh anyways... I dont think its a bad thing that you can have 9th level progression for arcane and 4th for devine, or 9th devine and 6th arcane (well, except maybe the skewedness, you would THINK that with arcane magic being inferior it will cost LESS... only reason I ever choose arcane over devine casting is because of role playing reasons...). It doesnt have to match up. You could have a class thats just that, a follower of the god of magic for example, with uneven focus on the arcane and devine aspects of magic, but the practice of both. Etc. Having the BAB, HP, saves, etc of a commoner JUST so that you would be able to cast 4th or 6th level spells of one kind when you can cast 9th level of the other is actually really BAD. Its practically useless, as a 9th level spell is always gonna be far superior (so, its just a few extra low level spells... ie... the same as multiclassing, except with crappier saves, feats, etc). I cite my first ever DnD rules character, Neverwinter nights... a Wizard 1/Sorcerer 1/Bard 1.... and then I scrapped it because it was unplayable ;p. Anyways, uber generics should be about removing limitations, should it not? if you have a reasonable role playing reasons to do that, go ahed and do it... What I would be interested in seeing is an ACCELERATED magic course, where you forgo the bab, saves, skills, etc... all to focus ENTIRELY on raw casting power (maybe take crafter or whatever its called). This will fit nicely with certain NPCs, and with the idea of a SCHOLARLY mage (one that never left the mage college and thus cant fight or whatever despite being high level)
theHermit 12-28-04, 07:27 AM	Well, munchkinism tests are fun, true. We could do that. I just thought it would be cool to see what this could do... Also, I love some of the ideas that come out of contests. They're so original. I'm always checking the DM Competitions because they produce some good stuff. :) EDIT: As in this, my first UG Class: Feature Points 3/4 BAB 1 Two Saves 2 d8 2 Wild Shape 5 Unarmored Speed 2 – 1 * Divine Student (Nature) 2 – 1 * Light Combatant (All M) 1 Remove Disease 1 Skillful 1 Lawless Bound * Total = 15 Class Skills: Skillful = 12 1. Concentration (Free) Craft 2. Diplomacy 3. Disguise 4. Handle Animal 5. Heal 6. Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (arcana) 7. Knowledge (the planes), Knowledge (religion) 8. Listen (Free) Profession 9. Ride 10. Spellcraft 11. Survival 12. Swim Feats: 1st Nature Sense 2nd Wlid Shape (animal) 5th Open 10th Open 15th Wild Shape (tiny) 20th Open Notes: Wild Shape (animal) was taken at 2nd level so that the Shaper could be effective before 5th level. This feat would have been obtained for free (as of 5th level), but this way te Shaper isn’t a combat liability till then. The suggested bonus feats are (assuming the character meets the prerequisites): 5th: Wild Shape(Humanoid), 10th Wild Shape (Elemental), 20th: Wild Shape (Dragon). These feats could be taken earlier (if the character has feats that are open at the normal open feat levels) Shaper of the Wild The woods are a dark and fearful place. Only the shapers find comfort there. Masters of the wild, and Chameleons of Nature, the shapers stride through the woodlands as if they were home. Frightening indeed is an angry shaper. Characteristics shapers usually adventure to protect their homeland or territory. They are also known to go on crusades to save wild areas from “corruption” by civilized cultures. While they tend to be a bit standoff-ish, shapers form lasting relationships with people who get to know them, and easily befriend druids and clerics of like-minded gods. shapers are always chaotic in temperment, and they tend towards chaotc-neutral. Game Rule Information Armor and Weapon Proficiencies: shapers are proficient with all martial weapons, but not armor or shields. Alignment: Any non-lawful Hit Die: d12 Skills Per level: 4+Int (4x first level) Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Listen (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str). Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Unarmored Speed Bonus 1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Wild Empathy, Animal Companion, Nature Sense +0 ft. 2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Wild Shape (Animal), Wild Shape(1x/day) +0 ft. 3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 +10 ft. 4th +3 +4 +1 +4 +10 ft. 5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Bonus Feat +10 ft. 6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Wild Shape (2x/day), Remove disease 1/week +20 ft. 7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Wild Shape (3x/day) +20 ft. 8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6 Wild Shape (4x/day) +20 ft. 9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Remove disease 2/week +30 ft. 10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Wild Shape (Large), Wild Shape(5x/day) +30 ft. 11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 +30 ft. 12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Wild Shape (Plant), Remove disease 3/week +40 ft. 13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 +40 ft. 14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Wild Shape(6x/day) +40 ft. 15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 Wild Shape(Huge), Wild Shape (Tiny), +50 ft. Remove disease 4/week 16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 +50 ft. 17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 +50 ft. 18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Remove disease 5/week +60 ft. 19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 +60 ft. 20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Bonus Feat +60 ft. shaper Spells per Day Level 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 1 - - - - 2 - - - - 3 - - - - 4 0 - - - 5 0 - - - 6 1 - - - 7 1 - - - 8 1 0 - - 9 1 0 - - 10 1 1 - - 11 1 1 0 - 12 1 1 1 - 13 1 1 1 - 14 2 1 1 0 15 2 1 1 1 16 2 2 1 1 17 2 2 2 1 18 3 2 2 1 19 3 3 3 2 20 3 3 3 3 Animal Companion: A shaper may begin play with an animal companion selected from the following list: badger, camel, dire rat, dog, riding dog, eagle, hawk, horse (light or heavy), owl, pony, snake (Small or Medium viper), or wolf. If the campaign takes place wholly or partly in an aquatic environment, the following creatures are also available: crocodile, porpoise, Medium shark, and squid. This animal is a loyal companion that accompanies the shaper on his adventures as appropriate for its kind. A 1st-level shaper’s companion is completely typical for its kind except as noted below. As a shaper advances in level, the animal’s power increases as shown on the table. If a shaper releases his companion from service, he may gain a new one by performing a ceremony requiring 24 uninterrupted hours of prayer. This ceremony can also replace an animal companion that has perished. Nature Sense (Ex): A shaper gains a +2 bonus on Knowledge (nature) and Survival checks. Remove Disease (Sp): At 6th level, a shaper can produce a remove disease effect, as the spell, once per week. He can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth). Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a shaper gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the shaper spell list. A shaper must choose and prepare his spells in advance (see below). To prepare or cast a spell, a shaper must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a shaper’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the shaper’s Wisdom modifier. Like other spellcasters, a shaper can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The shaper Spells per Day. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Wisdom score. When Table: The shaper Spells per Day indicates that the shaper gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Wisdom score for that spell level. The shaper does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does. A shaper prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though he cannot lose a prepared spell to cast a cure spell in its place. A shaper may prepare and cast any spell on the ranger spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation. Through 3rd level, a shaper has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his shaper level. Spontaneous Casting: A shaper can channel stored spell energy into summoning spells that he hasn’t prepared ahead of time. He can “lose” a prepared spell in order to cast any summon nature’s ally spell of the same level or lower. Fast Movement (Ex): At 3rd level, a shaper gains an enhancement bonus to his speed, as shown on Table: The shaper. A shaper in armor or carrying a medium or heavy load loses this extra speed. Illiteracy: Shapers do not automatically know how to read and write. A shaper may spend 2 skill points to gain the ability to read and write all languages he is able to speak. A shaper who gains a level in any other literate class automatically gains literacy. Any other character who gains a shaper level does not lose the literacy he or she already had. Wild Empathy (Ex): A shaper can improve the attitude of an animal. This ability functions just like a Diplomacy check made to improve the attitude of a person. The shaper rolls 1d20 and adds his shaper level and his Charisma modifier to determine the wild empathy check result. The typical domestic animal has a starting attitude of indifferent, while wild animals are usually unfriendly. To use wild empathy, the shaper and the animal must be able to study each other, which means that they must be within 30 feet of one another under normal conditions. Generally, influencing an animal in this way takes 1 minute but, as with influencing people, it might take more or less time. A shaper can also use this ability to influence a magical beast with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2, but he takes a –4 penalty on the check. Wild Shape (Su): At 2nd level, a shaper gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. His options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the polymorph spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per shaper level, or until he changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal the shaper is familiar with. A shaper loses his ability to speak while in animal form because he is limited to the sounds that a normal, untrained animal can make, but he can communicate normally with other animals of the same general grouping as her new form. (The normal sound a wild parrot makes is a squawk, so changing to this form does not permit speech.) A shaper can use this ability more times per day at 6th, 7th, 10th, 14th, and 18th level, as noted on Table: The shaper. In addition, he gains the ability to take the shape of a Large animal at 8th level, and a Tiny or Huge animal at 15th level. The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s shaper level. At 12th level, a shaper becomes able to use wild shape to change into a plant creature with the same size restrictions as for animal forms. (A shaper can’t use this ability to take the form of a plant that isn’t a creature.) Ex-Shapers A shaper who becomes lawful loses the ability to wild shape and remove disease and cannot gain further levels as a shaper. He retans all other benefits of the class. THE SHAPER’S ANIMAL COMPANION A shaper’s animal companion is different from a normal animal of its kind in many ways. A shaper’s animal companion is superior to a normal animal of its kind and has special powers, as described below. Class Bonus Natural Str/Dex Bonus Special Level HD Armor Adj. Tricks Adj. 1st–2nd +0 +0 +0 1 Link, share spells 3rd–5th +2 +2 +1 2 Evasion 6th–8th +4 +4 +2 3 Devotion 9th–11th +6 +6 +3 4 Multiattack 12th–14th +8 +8 +4 5 15th–17th +10 +10 +5 6 Improved evasion 18th–20th +12 +12 +6 7 Animal Companion Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the companion’s kind, but make the following changes. Class Level: The character’s shaper level. The shaper’s class levels stack with levels of any other classes that are entitled to an animal companion for the purpose of determining the companion’s abilities and the alternative lists available to the character. Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Remember that extra Hit Dice improve the animal companion’s base attack and base save bonuses. An animal companion’s base attack bonus is the same as that of a shaper of a level equal to the animal’s HD. An animal companion has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). An animal companion gains additional skill points and feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice. Natural Armor Adj.: The number noted here is an improvement to the animal companion’s existing natural armor bonus. Str/Dex Adj.: Add this value to the animal companion’s Strength and Dexterity scores. Bonus Tricks: The value given in this column is the total number of “bonus” tricks that the animal knows in addition to any that the shaper might choose to teach it (see the Handle Animal skill). These bonus tricks don’t require any training time or Handle Animal checks, and they don’t count against the normal limit of tricks known by the animal. The shaper selects these bonus tricks, and once selected, they can’t be changed. Link (Ex): A shaper can handle his animal companion as a free action, or push it as a move action, even if he doesn’t have any ranks in the Handle Animal skill. The shaper gains a +4 circumstance bonus on all wild empathy checks and Handle Animal checks made regarding an animal companion. Share Spells (Ex): At the shaper’s option, he may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) he casts upon himself also affect his animal companion. The animal companion must be within 5 feet of him at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the animal companion if the companion moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the animal again, even if it returns to the shaper before the duration expires. Additionally, the shaper may cast a spell with a target of “You” on his animal companion (as a touch range spell) instead of on himself. A shaper and his animal companion can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the companion’s type (animal). Evasion (Ex): If an animal companion is subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, it takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw. Devotion (Ex): An animal companion gains a +4 morale bonus on Will saves against enchantment spells and effects. Multiattack: An animal companion gains Multiattack as a bonus feat if it has three or more natural attacks and does not already have that feat. If it does not have the requisite three or more natural attacks, the animal companion instead gains a second attack with its primary natural weapon, albeit at a –5 penalty. Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, an animal companion takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and only half damage if the saving throw fails.
taltamir 12-28-04, 02:57 PM	Oh yea... here is one. How do the spell lists work now?
theHermit 12-28-04, 04:09 PM	Oh yea... here is one. How do the spell lists work now? Well, for arcane casters the list is usually the entire Wiz/Sor list. For divine(nature) casters and divine(b/r) 4 level casters, the list is up to the Player/DM. I would use the druid, ranger, and paladin for reference, though maybe this should be set to a point system as well? Or not. may be to complicated.
taltamir 12-28-04, 04:28 PM	How about just meshing them together? Bard + Wiz/sorc list make the arcane list. All the devine ones make the devine list. This might be considered alittle overpowering... but eh. I think its cool and kinda makes sense. Otherwise I would say CHOOSE a list when you choose the profession.
ArochanoX 12-28-04, 05:30 PM	for theHermit's contest: Yet unnamed sturdy guy bab 3/4 1p 3 saves 4p d12HD 4p squire 3p med. combatant 2p (all armor) damage reduction 1p ------ total 15p lvl bab f r w special 1 0 2 2 2 bonus feat 2 1 3 3 3 bonus feat 3 2 3 3 3 4 3 4 4 4 bonus feat 5 3 4 4 4 6 4 5 5 5 7 5 5 5 5 DR 1/- 8 6 6 6 6 bonus feat 9 6 6 6 6 10 7 7 7 7 DR 2/- 11 8 7 7 7 12 9 8 8 8 bonus feat 13 9 8 8 8 DR 3/- 14 10 9 9 9 15 11 9 9 9 16 12 10 10 10 bonus feat, DR 4/- 17 12 10 10 10 18 13 11 11 11 19 14 11 11 11 DR 5/- 20 15 12 12 12 bonus feat I haven't yet decided what all those bonus feats are, I think they're going to be something like evasion, mettle etc. etc. These unnamed sturdy guys practise their endurance in rough environments. They practise toughness of body, willpower of mind and the link between these two - it's not enough to be a tough and solemn, you need to be able to link these two together as speed of thought between the mind and the muscle. Through difficult and long training, these unnamed sturdy guys learn to yield more and more.
taltamir 12-28-04, 06:41 PM	They also chew rocks and spit nails... or did that saying go differently?
theHermit 12-29-04, 12:17 PM	for theHermit's contest: *snip* I haven't yet decided what all those bonus feats are, I think they're going to be something like evasion, mettle etc. etc. These unnamed sturdy guys practise their endurance in rough environments. They practise toughness of body, willpower of mind and the link between these two - it's not enough to be a tough and solemn, you need to be able to link these two together as speed of thought between the mind and the muscle. Through difficult and long training, these unnamed sturdy guys learn to yield more and more. When you get it finalized, let me know. I guess I'll judge, since I have nothing better to do. Anyone else want to judge? Points: 1-10 Rules usage 1-10 Completeness 1-10 Uniqueness 1-10 Usability Crave, if you think we're hijacking your thread, we can move this somewhere else. NOTE: Obviously if you judge, you can't also enter. EDIT: I'm gonna move this to it's own thread to stir up some involvement... The Thread is Here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=357014)
Crave 01-02-05, 11:18 PM	Ok guys, I'm gonna have to wait a bit before I post psionics. I've never actually PLAYED a psionic character, or campaign for that matter. So I'm gonna try and read real deep into the rules. No official release date yet, but the second this is up, I'll start working on my other projects, which I hope you guys will enjoy. Also, I'd love to judge the UG contest. As for the "Races of" book, from the way it looks lik eis your gonna have to wait until i get to those. I'm saving up for a laptop, so that I can work on UG, my poetry, and some other stuff on the go. Well, that's what i can say for now. Peace yall.
Crashy75 01-06-05, 08:13 PM	Just hitching a ride...
Crave 01-08-05, 11:52 PM	Good news everyone! I just got the "Complete Adventurer" and i must say, the complete series is completely necessary. Infact, i am completely satisfied with them as a whole. It wasn't a complete dissapointment. All puns aside, now that my collection of the "Complete" series is totalled, i can start work on the series. Expect this enhancement to be HUGE, including Prestige progressions for ALL the PRCs, progressions for all the base classes, new feat translations for class abilities, new restrictions, and new completely original progressions. I've always wanted to make my own progressions and see how they work. They will be centered around the "Wild" and "Divine" feats. once the complete series is done (and the psionic series, i promise to finish it soon, really!), I will take a break from UG. Afterwards, i will continue to finalzing the "UG" collection, and will make a SRD compatible. I will make a book filled with UG information and a website (where i can post UG stuff that ISN'T SRD compatible for you using pleasure, IE: If another book comes out with a new core class or prestige class such as the artificer or the PRCs from the "Races of" books). The UG book will be for sale, and will hopefully spawn enough funds for me to be able to start up my own gaming company. After UG, I will be working on my campaign setting. If UG sells, my campaign setting will be the next thing to hit shelves. I'll make sure to put up plenty of previews and stuff. For those of you that want to know about my campaign setting, I'll say this much: Chose your side, and chose it wisely, 'cause your head, heart and soul rest in the balance. As for what will happen with UG. All this information will be moved to my website, the thread will (hopefully) die off the wizard's boards, and i will become wealthy and successful and people will love me. LOVE ME I SAY! As for the terrain books, I hope to post those up sometime as well. I personally do not own a single terrain book. Since 2005 looks light on my wallet, I will probably spend my future funds on the races books, the terrain books, and the two new d20 books coming out this year. I'm a HUGE fan of the D20 series, and have collected every book to date (Modern, future, urban arcana, firearms, menace manual). Which reminds me. I will not be adding the "D20" books to the list of books i will translate into UG. I think the class system in the D20 books works just fine. However, i do plan on making a D20 Fantasy book. A lot of people have been working on d20 fantasy books, but (i think) they missed some of the points of the system. How many of you will be interested in buying that as well?
Mind Rogue 01-09-05, 10:26 AM	Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the concept of the generics so that people can get their base ideas down simply without multiclassing? The idea should be giving the player the most versatility in the shortest amount of space. Trying to go through and disect every prestige class may give lots of versatility, but it is difficult to do it succinctly. One problem with the prestige progressions is that either the character has to pay for them immediately, in which case he is underpowered until he meets the prerequisites for the progression, or else he has to multiclass to buy the progression in a different class, and multiclassing with generics defeats the entire point. If you really want to include prestige class abilities, I would suggest to either convert them into abilities that are balanced for lower level characters or else to allow the player to build their own base class (which is exactly how they want it), and then force them to multiclass into the prestige class that they want. Also, now that I think about it, the idea of "building a class" under this system is a bit rediculous. There are no classes. Instead, everyone just happens to get different benefits at different times. Everyone will call themselves whatever they want to, and two people with the same title, like "wizard" might have incredibly different abilities.
taltamir 01-09-05, 02:09 PM	like 4 levels arcane magic vs 9.... not all who go to the mage academy apply themselves with the same zeal, or have the same talent ;p...
Crave 01-09-05, 02:31 PM	Now correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the concept of the generics so that people can get their base ideas down simply without multiclassing? The idea should be giving the player the most versatility in the shortest amount of space. Trying to go through and disect every prestige class may give lots of versatility, but it is difficult to do it succinctly. One problem with the prestige progressions is that either the character has to pay for them immediately, in which case he is underpowered until he meets the prerequisites for the progression, or else he has to multiclass to buy the progression in a different class, and multiclassing with generics defeats the entire point. If you really want to include prestige class abilities, I would suggest to either convert them into abilities that are balanced for lower level characters or else to allow the player to build their own base class (which is exactly how they want it), and then force them to multiclass into the prestige class that they want. Also, now that I think about it, the idea of "building a class" under this system is a bit ridiculous. There are no classes. Instead, everyone just happens to get different benefits at different times. Everyone will call themselves whatever they want to, and two people with the same title, like "wizard" might have incredibly different abilities. Thanks for the feed back man...but can you say it a little nicer next time? I'll admit, the "Prestige Progressions" need work. Originally, i was going to take all "Prestige Progressions" and make them work like normal ones, streching out there abilities and when they work. Essentially, they'd be just like normal progressions. However, there is a key difference between normal classes and prestige classes, and that is that prestige classes specialize abilities that your already focused in. Prestige progressions don't really make you any weaker at first level then they do at any of the other levels. None of the progressions are front loaded. Everyone still gains at least one feat at first level. The point of UG is to be able to build a character closer to how you wanted him to be. It gives you the tools necessary so that you could build a dwarven fighter with both arcane casting and divine casting. Certian combinations of classes aren't possible with the D&D core rules set and needed modifying, and some characters are down right impossible to do, dying off in early levels before they could achieve thier long, complicated path of rules doging and feat taking. if i wanted to make a character that focused in Every route of magic (Druidic, cleric, wizard, sorcerer) I'd have to do some kind of complicated class build that would end up way under powered. With UG, you can take all 4 types of casting up to 6th level, take a restriction, and have enough left over for one save. At first level, you can cast enough 0 level spells to get you by a few encounters, and last long enough to get to your later level of power. Thats whats cool about UG, the options. Also, what you said towards the end of the post, well the system was intentionally designed to be like that. There are at least 5 different ways you can make an assasin in D&D, but they would all work differently. One might go down the assasin PRC, one might be a rogue/ranger, one might be a shadow mind, one might be a thief acrobat, one might even be an exemplar. Essentially though, they are all assasins. The only time people really use "Multiclassing" in UG is if they have a change in paths. If a paladin stops doing good after total corruption and becomes a deadly dark night, he can just respend his points to make a new "Class" to match his new outlook. it isn't really multiclassing as much as it is a change in paths. The only reason everyone has been using the term "Class" in this thread is for lack of a better term. Infact, one of my favorite character concepts comes from a spin like this. I had one character with levels in Sorcerer, but all of his spells had the range of personal. I also gave him no ranks in spell craft, and little ranks in knowledge arcana. He didn't know he was a sorcerer, he simply thought his spells were just a craft he had been able to master. Another cool character i planed on playing was a rogue who had plenty of ranks in bluff, talking skills, and use magic device. He'd carry around scrolls and wands and staves, and simply call himself a "Mage" or a "Cleric" or a "theurge" even, if he mastered it far enough. The character wouldn't have a single level in wizard or cleric, but he could pull off a lot of necessary check to come off as one. That just part of the fun in D&D. If you have a problem with a certian mechanic and a possible solution, please post a way to fix it. I'm slightly hurt from the way you posted. I've put a lot of hard work into this system, and I'm giving it out for free. Next time please respond a bit nicer.
sazisme 01-10-05, 11:32 AM	Ranger is my favorite class, so it is of course the only one I tried to see how well I could re-create using UG since the DM is planning on using it in the next campaign. Now, this is the template suggested in Chapter 9: "Ranger: 1/1 (3), two saves (2), d8 (2), Medium Combatant (2 -1), Favored Enemy (2), Divine student (Nature) (2), Squire (2), combat style (1) = 15" Did I miss something? Because first I see that Squire costs 3 points, and I don't see combat style listed anywhere. I'm assuming that you are really just taking squire, and combat style is wrapped into that. I also don't see Evasion anywhere exept as a suggested feat on page 2 of the thread. I'd suggest adding that to the "UG Book". But my real problem with this suggested build is that you have created a ranger that gets 2+int skills per level, and can not take Listen, Spot, Search, Hide, or Move Silently as class skills. In my opinion, without those class skills you can't call it a ranger... Now, if I were to try to accurately recreate the Ranger from the SRD, it would look like this: 1/1 BAB (3 pts), 2 good saves (2 pts), d8 hitdie (2 pts), Adept (3 pts), Squire Feats (3 pts), Med. Combatant (1 pt), Divine Student (2pts), Favored Enemy (2 pts). Feats taken with Squire/Regular slots are [Combat Style x3, Track, Endurace, Woodland Stride, Swift Tracker, Hide in Plain Sight, Camoflage, and Evasion if it is "official"] for 10 feats. (You'd get 13 from the Squire+Regular) Total = 18 points. Yes, this has 3 extra feats. But I can't find a way to address that, other then to not take squire and lose 4 feats. I don't expect to be able to completely recreate the core classes. Especially since this would enable me to finally create my non-spellcasting ranger the way *I* want him to be. But 3 points (which is incidentally exactly what adding Adept to the Chapter 9 suggested Ranger would be) seems like a big leap. Or did I miss something somwhere?
Mind Rogue 01-10-05, 09:02 PM	I'm sorry I was so harsh. I don't think that a character who wants to continue down the same path (such as Crave's assasin example), should be forced to retool their progression at fifth or seventh level because of how the progressions work. Also, some progressions (including basic ones) don't give benefits for several levels (Damage Reduction comes to the top of my head). I think a better method would be to convert all the abilities into feats (rolling weak ones together), and then having characters simply choosing how often they get bonus feats. Then, all a player has to do to change their path is select a different feat.
taltamir 01-10-05, 11:41 PM	mmm... how about this... First we need to deferentiate between a change of direction, and a change of heart. #1. A paladin falling and becoming a blackgaurd would likely loose his smite evil abilities, etc. And would gain others instead. How do we work that out? #2. A warrior decides he wants to start learning magic... how do we work that out? I think those two represent the two different kinds of class change you would encounter. A change of heart (#1) and a change of path (#2). I think those should work in a different way. Then there is something in the middle. A change where you dont loose any current abilities, but should stop gaining new ones... I think seperate systems should be worked out for this. I think for #1 it should be a loose X levels and just change to the new class at that new level. And for #2 it will likely just be taking a new "class". What do you think? Also, you should not try and design those to fit with normal PrCs... in fact, PoweR Classes loose their point if you are able to make a custom tailored to you "class"
Mind Rogue 01-11-05, 10:22 AM	well, for the warrior-turned mage, we could try to instigate some feat-based spellcasting. I know this exists somewhere, but I've never seen it. Instead, here is an idea I've come up with (but never tested). Magical Talent Prerequisite: Will Save +2 Benefit: Choose four 0th level spells (cantrips) and two first level spells. You can cast a three cantrips each day and one first level spell, in any combination you choose. These are spontaneous spells, and they are charisma based (a high charisma increases the save DC and spells per day, and you must have a charisma of 10 + spell level). The spells incur the normal spell failure associated with wearing armor. Improved Magical Talent Prerequisite: Magical Talent, Will Save +3 Benefit: You now have access to spells of the next level. You now know an additional spell of each level you have access to (inluding the new one), and you gain an additional spell per day for each of those spell levels. Special: You can choose this feat multiple times. Each time, you gain access to a new spell level, spells known, and more spells per day. Each time, the required Will Save goes up by 1. Spell Power Prerequisite: Magical Talent Benefit: You gain another 1st level spell per day. Special: You can choose this feat multiple times. Each time, you gain access of a spell of the next level. Spell Knowledge Prerequisite: Magical Talent Benefit: Choose a spell of up to the second highest level available to you. You now know that spell. Special: You can choose this feat multiple times. Each time, you learn an additional spell. Compared to the sorcerer, this character gets fewer higher level spells per day, but knows more and gets more lower level spells per day. Also, they get spells a level before the wizard, and I'm not exactly sure how to fix it.
ArochanoX 01-17-05, 04:07 PM	After tough mathematical equations, I managed to create a system that allows you to create any type of wizardy casting. I haven't had time to calculate sorcerous or divine castings. First choose what is the highest level spell you would like to cast, then determine how many spells you would like to be able to cast per day at each spell level at level 20. For example wizard has 9th level spells as highest and 4 spells per day. From those values you are able to determine class's caster points with the following equation: highest level spells value (see table below) x slots at level 20 highest level spells - value 1 - 1 2 - 3 3 - 6 4 - 10 5 - 15 6 - 21 7 - 28 8 - 36 9 - 45 You get the uber generic point value to that casting by multiplying it by 1/15 ~ 0,0666666666666. Then progressions. The following table shows what's the highest level spell character can cast at that level. Because of the balancing mathematics 10, 11 and 12 level castings are not as powerful. _______spell level_____ lvl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1 - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 - - 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 3 - - 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 1 1 1 4 - 1 1 1 1 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 5 - 1 1 2 2 2 2 3 3 2 2 2 6 - 1 1 2 2 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 7 - 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 4 4 4 4 8 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 4 4 4 4 9 1 1 2 2 3 4 4 4 5 5 5 5 10 1 1 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 5 6 6 11 1 1 2 3 3 4 5 5 6 6 6 6 12 1 1 2 3 4 5 5 5 6 6 7 7 13 1 2 3 3 4 5 5 6 7 7 7 8 14 1 2 3 4 4 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 6 7 8 8 8 9 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 7 8 8 9 10 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 9 9 10 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 10 11 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 Getting tough? It's getting even more tougher. Then you must make the table for your character's spell progression. First take wizard's progression and modify it. The numbers show how many caster points character has at that level. wizard's caster points: lvl caster points difference from previous level 1 1 - 2 2 +1 3 4 +2 4 7 +3 5 10 +3 6 15 +5 7 20 +5 8 27 +7 9 34 +7 10 43 +9 11 52 +9 12 63 +11 13 74 +11 14 87 +13 15 100 +13 16 115 +15 17 130 +15 18 147 +17 19 163 +16 (+17) 20 180 +17 (+19) Now you must calculate how many caster points your class has at that level. It's quite simple: ( caster points at level 20 / 180 ) x caster points wizard has at that level rounding down Then use your caster points at that level to spell slots. Level 1 slot costs 1 point, level 2 slot costs 2, level 3 costs 3 and so on. Use your caster points from highest level slot you have at that level. For example: I want to make a caster that has 6 spells per day and 7th level spells. It has 28 x 6 = 168 caster points He gains higher level slots at levels 3,6,8,11,14 and 16 Caster point curve looks like this: 168/180 = 0,93333 And now adding the points converted to spell levels: caster points: lvl points - difference 1 0 - - 2 1 +1 3 3 +2 4 6 +3 5 9 +3 6 14 +5 (+4) 7 18 +4 8 25 +7 (+6) 9 31 +6 10 40 +9 (+8) 11 48 +8 12 58 +10 13 69 +11 14 81 +12 15 93 +12 16 107 +14 17 121 +14 18 137 +16 19 152 +15 (+16) 20 168 +16 ___spells_____ lvl 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 1 0 - - - - - - 2 1 - - - - - - 3 1 1 - - - - - 4 2 2 - - - - - 5 3 3 - - - - - 6 4 3 1 - - - - 7 5 3 2 - - - - 8 5 4 2 1 - - - 9 5 5 2 2 - - - 10 6 4 3 3 - - - 11 6 4 4 3 1 - - 12 6 5 5 3 2 - - 13 6 6 5 4 3 - - 14 6 6 5 4 4 1 - 15 6 6 5 5 5 1 - 16 6 6 5 5 5 2 1 17 6 6 6 6 5 2 2 18 6 6 6 6 6 3 3 19 6 6 6 6 6 5 5 20 6 6 6 6 6 6 6 This casting costs 168 * 0,06666666 = 11,2 points. Maybe 11 points is good enough. After some polishing, the numbers rise in order which helps things. The numbers should grow as evenly as possible. Take example from tables published by wotc. Enjoy! critique. Maybe Crave even wants to add this quite complex system to his wonderful uber generics system. If some part of this need clarifying, please ask!
ArochanoX 01-18-05, 08:58 AM	Highest level spell values for higher level spells: 10 - 55 11 - 66 12 - 78
taltamir 02-25-05, 10:38 PM	I use this as an example as to how broken clerics are... Personally for a balanced game I would make the devine and arcane casting cost the SAME. Cleric casting is arguably BETTER then arcane casting, yet costs 1.5 times as much? this makes absolutely no sense whatsoever from an empirical stand point (but does if you understand how broken divine casters are).
PaTRiXXX 02-28-05, 06:17 AM	Are "Squire" (3 points) and "Master" (6 points) bonus feats in addition to the ones at lvl 1, 2, 5, 10, 15 and 20? or are the bonus feats instead of the ones you gain as comonner.
Crave 03-12-05, 01:17 PM	Hey everyone. I suppose i owe you all some kind of appology. As you might have noticed when it comes to UG, there are spikes of lots of work, followed by lows of little work. Thats beceause i work on UG when i have time. I appologize for making everyone wait SO long for psionics, and for a pdf release of UG, and for a fixing of the rules which has been starved for since the introduction of Prestige Progressions. I promise you guys that i will try my hardest to try and release the UG work, as soon as my school works done. Long story short, family problems are a big issue for me write now, i need to get over some psycholigical mind block i put up, and i need to finish my work. I actually should be taking the SATs right now, but i postponed them and requested to take it next time around. I need a bit of time to work out some issues, but commeth spring break, I will work harder. This will be followed by a new website, a fixing of rules, and hopefully soon, the release of my varient rule book. I'd love to give you guys all my Ideas in one huge big flow of fun and free ness, but i need some free time, some time to work out my issues, and i need some time to work hard enough to achieve my dream of becoming a well known Game Designer. If ya'll want to know, my dream is to become the Steven Spielburg of game design. Yeah, big dream i know. Just to give a rough idea of what the books should consist of: I'm hoping to make it about 400 pages, with less pretty pictures and much more structure and core. It will basically be an Idea pool. Varients will range from using the UG system, a new way of taking on multiclassing, new core classes, a varient core class list, a varient way of spell casting, a way of giving much more flavor to mechanics, and have the mechanics make sense with the flavor. Part of the varients, actually, will be flavor based enitrely, just tweeks to give alternate feels on to your campaign setting, and the little things that can make a huge deal in your campaign. Before i go, I'll awnser a few of your questions. Arochanox, I like your system, and wish to read a bit deeper into it. I would use it myself, but i don't deal with casting past 9th level. However, it IS interesting, and could make for interesting new core classes, like a wizard who only casts up to 3rd level spells, but casts ALOT of them, all of the time, with lots of amps via metamagic and what not. It would make a great wizard varient for a low magic campaign setting. I use this as an example as to how broken clerics are... I couldn't agree with you any more dude. I don't like divine casters much as they are, and think that they should be set back a decimal or two, to match up with the wizard and sorcerer. Thats why the druid comes off with a blow to the stomach in my system, and why in its earlier stages it didn't even exsist. Do you think i should just say "Screw the core rulebooks, I'll go with MY balancing state of mind", or should i just agree with whats in the books and continue to work like that? Are "Squire" (3 points) and "Master" (6 points) bonus feats in addition to the ones at lvl 1, 2, 5, 10, 15 and 20? or are the bonus feats instead of the ones you gain as comonner. They are not in addition, they replace them. Squire replaces the original set of feat progression, and so does master. Oh, BTW, my birthday is comming up! Hopefully, with my next few installment ins pay checks and family gifts, I'll be able to buy some more books. It's really becoming a pain the the arse to afford things now adays, but that Ipod sure does look sexy, and man how I'd be better off with a cell phone. Snoop dog says i should get the side kick, but I've also been thinking about the Ngage. Its a wee bit off topic, but which one do you think i should get? The ngage or the sidekick 2? Anyways, enough about my personal life, enjoy UG, and keep truckin everybody!
taltamir 03-13-05, 02:41 PM	the second quote in your post says "originally posted by taltamir" but it was posted by someone else. And yea the druid and cleric do that. I mean common, is devine magic REALLY worth only 2/3 of arcane magic BEFORE alignment restrictions make it cheaper? Id just get an alignment restricted devine magic + body... the ultimate attack caster monk (with monks feats making him untouchable, so he can safely cast his magic from afar). If I want the ultimate shapeshifter, druid magic + body. the list goes on.
AndrewRF 03-15-05, 01:56 AM	Crave, A big thanks for all of your work on this. It is really well done! Here are a few easy additions. A bunch of new wild shape abilities and some new progressions that are almost identical to existing ones. Note: None of this material is in the SRD, so I've limited my descriptions. Please let me know if what I've included is a problem. Sneak Attack Alternatives: Skirmish and Sudden Attack The Ninja and Scout base classes in the Complete Adventurer introduce two interesting variants on the Rogue's Sneak Attack ability. Sudden Strike seems identical to Sneak Attack, except that it only activates when the opponent is denied their DEX bonus (normal flanking doesn't activate it). Skirmish only activates on a turn when the character moves at least 10 feet. It provides only half the damage advancement of Sneak Attack (extra d6 at 1, 5, 9, 13, 17) but fills in the other odd levels with a +1 competence bonus to AC. So at level 19, it is 5d6 and +5AC instead of 10d6. Each of these strike me as slightly weaker than the standard sneak attack. Sudden Strike is limited by the flanking restriction and Skirmish by the movement restriction - there are very few ways to move 10 feet and attack more than once in a round. I'd suggest making them 4 points alternatives to Sneak Attack. Rage Alternatives: Dervish Dance and Frenzy The Frenzied Berserker and Dervish PrCs from the Complete Warrior have abilities (Frenzy and Dervish Dance) that bear a lot of structure similarity to Barbarian's Rage. I'd suggest adding them as a drop in (3 point) alterative to Rage with the following adjustments: 1. Greater Rage replaced with Greater Frenzy or Dance of Death 2. Tireless Rage replaced with Tireless Frenzy or Tireless Dance 3. Indomitable Will replaced with Deathless Frenzy or ??? (maybe Elaborate Parry) 4. Mighty Rage replaced with Inspire Frenzy or A Thousand Cuts. They should probably each be 1/day. Alternately, IF and ATC could be used by burning a regular slot (i.e. 1 dance slot provides 1 round of ATC). 6. Each dance/day allowed grants +1 to attack and damage rolls (instead of having these two aspects advance separately). Smite Alternatives: Kiai Smite and Smite the Guilty The Samurai base class (Complete Warrior) and Vigilante PrC (Complete Adventurer) each have alternative versions of the Paladin's Smite ability. The Samurai's Kiai Smite can be used on any opponent. It provides an attack and damage bonus equal to the character's CHA bonus (min +1) for the next attack. The Vigilante's Smite the Guilty can be used on someone whom the character has personally seen committing a crime. It provides the characters CHA bonus (min 0) to the next melee attack roll and deals +1/level damage. Additional Wild Shape Options The Master of Many Forms PrC in the Complete Adventurer offers a lot of additional Wild Shaping options. I'm not sure if they should be packaged as a Progression, added as extra feats or both. In either case: New Sizes You can now wild shape into known forms of this size. +1 wild shape/day. 1. Wild Shape (Diminutive) 2. Wild Shape (Gargantuan) New Forms You can now wild shape into creature of this type. +1 wild shape/day 1. Wild Shape (Giant) 2. Wild Shape (Monstrous Humanoid) 3. Wild Shape (Fey) 4. Wild Shape (Vermin) 5. Wild Shape (Aberration) 6. Wild Shape (Ooze) 7. Wild Shape (Undead): From the Blighter PrC (Complete Divine). New Abilities Enhancements to existing wild shape abilities 1. Shifter's Speech: Retain speaking ability when wild shaped 2. Fast Wild Shape: Wild Shape as a move action 3. Extraordinary Wild Shape: Gain form's Extraordinary special qualities when wild shaped.
Crave 03-18-05, 09:07 AM	Crave, A big thanks for all of your work on this. It is really well done! Here are a few easy additions. A bunch of new wild shape abilities and some new progressions that are almost identical to existing ones. Note: None of this material is in the SRD, so I've limited my descriptions. Please let me know if what I've included is a problem. Sneak Attack Alternatives: Skirmish and Sudden Attack The Ninja and Scout base classes in the Complete Adventurer introduce two interesting variants on the Rogue's Sneak Attack ability. Sudden Strike seems identical to Sneak Attack, except that it only activates when the opponent is denied their DEX bonus (normal flanking doesn't activate it). Skirmish only activates on a turn when the character moves at least 10 feet. It provides only half the damage advancement of Sneak Attack (extra d6 at 1, 5, 9, 13, 17) but fills in the other odd levels with a +1 competence bonus to AC. So at level 19, it is 5d6 and +5AC instead of 10d6. Each of these strike me as slightly weaker than the standard sneak attack. Sudden Strike is limited by the flanking restriction and Skirmish by the movement restriction - there are very few ways to move 10 feet and attack more than once in a round. I'd suggest making them 4 points alternatives to Sneak Attack. Rage Alternatives: Dervish Dance and Frenzy The Frenzied Berserker and Dervish PrCs from the Complete Warrior have abilities (Frenzy and Dervish Dance) that bear a lot of structure similarity to Barbarian's Rage. I'd suggest adding them as a drop in (3 point) alterative to Rage with the following adjustments: 1. Greater Rage replaced with Greater Frenzy or Dance of Death 2. Tireless Rage replaced with Tireless Frenzy or Tireless Dance 3. Indomitable Will replaced with Deathless Frenzy or ??? (maybe Elaborate Parry) 4. Mighty Rage replaced with Inspire Frenzy or A Thousand Cuts. They should probably each be 1/day. Alternately, IF and ATC could be used by burning a regular slot (i.e. 1 dance slot provides 1 round of ATC). 6. Each dance/day allowed grants +1 to attack and damage rolls (instead of having these two aspects advance separately). Smite Alternatives: Kiai Smite and Smite the Guilty The Samurai base class (Complete Warrior) and Vigilante PrC (Complete Adventurer) each have alternative versions of the Paladin's Smite ability. The Samurai's Kiai Smite can be used on any opponent. It provides an attack and damage bonus equal to the character's CHA bonus (min +1) for the next attack. The Vigilante's Smite the Guilty can be used on someone whom the character has personally seen committing a crime. It provides the characters CHA bonus (min 0) to the next melee attack roll and deals +1/level damage. Additional Wild Shape Options The Master of Many Forms PrC in the Complete Adventurer offers a lot of additional Wild Shaping options. I'm not sure if they should be packaged as a Progression, added as extra feats or both. In either case: New Sizes You can now wild shape into known forms of this size. +1 wild shape/day. 1. Wild Shape (Diminutive) 2. Wild Shape (Gargantuan) New Forms You can now wild shape into creature of this type. +1 wild shape/day 1. Wild Shape (Giant) 2. Wild Shape (Monstrous Humanoid) 3. Wild Shape (Fey) 4. Wild Shape (Vermin) 5. Wild Shape (Aberration) 6. Wild Shape (Ooze) 7. Wild Shape (Undead): From the Blighter PrC (Complete Divine). New Abilities Enhancements to existing wild shape abilities 1. Shifter's Speech: Retain speaking ability when wild shaped 2. Fast Wild Shape: Wild Shape as a move action 3. Extraordinary Wild Shape: Gain form's Extraordinary special qualities when wild shaped. Thanks for the feed back. A lot of this stuff was going to be made once I started working on a website. I have a friend of mine whose crazy at HTML, so he's gonna help me out. But you guys as the fans can help me out too. I need to know what programs can help me compile images into a pdf format, so i can sell my work on RPG drive thru. Also, were can i go and get a cheap .com or .org address. You can expect the complete work to be posted some time in spring break, and some work will definatly be done this weekend. Sorry for neglecting you guys so long. Thanks everyone, oh, and my birthdays on monday, so hopefully I'll get some more books so i can add it on for you guys. Peace ya'll.
AndrewRF 03-18-05, 01:39 PM	There are tons of companies that offer domain registration and hosting. I've registered a couple of domains with Domain Direct (http://domaindirect.com) and been happy with the service. They charge around $15/year for domain registration. They offer more expensive solutions that also include hosting, but I haven't tried them, so I don't know if they are any good. You can find a complete list of registrars at: http://www.internic.net/regist.html or you could google for something like "cheap domain names" or "cheap hosting"
taltamir 03-18-05, 07:55 PM	i have seen cheaper domain registrations. Also, you can just go with a free no-ip address or another of that kind.
Urzza 04-17-05, 01:52 PM	look at the Animal Companion feat, If im reading it right, it says if you take it twice, you take a -4 penitly to your level when determsning your Animal Companion?
Crave 05-01-05, 01:14 AM	look at the Animal Companion feat, If im reading it right, it says if you take it twice, you take a -4 penitly to your level when determsning your Animal Companion? Yeah, but thats changing so that you get a minus equal to the level that you took it at. I think i should do the same with Familiars. I'm definatly going to be tacking on a good few things to this system to help you out with your familiar. heheheheheh *suddenly gets a flash of a 1950's documentary. "Your familiar and you"*I figured out where i can sell these books, and just how much they will be for. The book is going to be over 200 pages, that much i promise. If its only 200 pages, then it'll cost about 20 bucks. I want the book to hit (at least) 300 pages, which would cost 25 bucks, and if it hits exactly how much i want it to be, a whooping 400+ pages, It'll cost 30 bucks. I'm going to be selling it in actual physical form, It will be d20 compatible (as in all of it), and a good deal of the book will be considered OGL up to an extent. I also now have a blog, where all updates on the progress of the book will be posted until i get a website. The blog can be found here (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog). Until then, Peace. MC Crave, number 2000 (not to be confused with another MC, who is number one with the ladies, and foaming with rabies)
Etiquette_Gnome 05-03-05, 04:21 PM	You give the option for sneak attack as a bonus feat. Can be this taken if you already have the sneak attack progression? I wonder because you could build a rogue-type with an unholy volume of sneak attack progression were they to stack (up to about 20d6 sneak attacks).
Crave 05-03-05, 10:05 PM	You give the option for sneak attack as a bonus feat. Can be this taken if you already have the sneak attack progression? I wonder because you could build a rogue-type with an unholy volume of sneak attack progression were they to stack (up to about 20d6 sneak attacks). :whatsthis :eek: :OMG! NO! no...Christ no.....As a DM I literally FEAR sneak attack, and as a player i want to do nothing more but take advantage of it with every feat, spell and character build possible. I *think* i mention in the feat that you are not allowed to do both, but if it doesn't say that i will change it. OH yeah, notice this thing on the bottom of the post. When i post in here (And on my blog) I will be detailing what I'm working on to add to my book, so that way you know what to expect in my book. Current 8 pages of the week detail on: Playing the offspring of your character
Kayoz_Majick 05-18-05, 07:58 PM	Holy beans, Batman. This system rocks. I love it. Luckily, as an experienced (sorta) DM, and having all new-ish players, I can impliment this and they will never know what they are missing! yes! I would like to impliment this into my next campaign-in-the-making, if you dont mind. A few of my campaign ideas can be found here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=427013) (divine magic do-away), here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=424971) (campaign setting), and here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=424879) (the new/only core race in my campaign setting) ;) sorry about advertising on your post (not really :D) btw, you are my hero! i love these ideas.
BronzeBeard 08-04-05, 01:31 PM	Hello again, crave. How are you? I wanted to ask you if you will expand and enhance the chapters already exist? Why I ask that? that's because I'm a freak of martial arts and eastern campains. I would like to have the options available at the Oriental Adventures book - all those attack styles and abilities. Besides, love your work (you should already know, you're in my cavern...)
Ned the Normal 08-22-05, 05:20 PM	The blog can be found here (http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog). Until then, Peace. Truly stunning work, I know that I will purchase a copy when it is published. I seem to be having a little trouble with your link. When I click on it, it sends me to a registration screen.
Linkrulesx10 08-24-05, 03:20 AM	I think this system is great and I can't wait for it to be published properly. I am about to start playing with a really loose DM so I will use these rules to make the charecter I will be using with him
Kidthulu 08-29-05, 05:04 PM	I vote for a public release!
Thelon Fairblade 08-29-05, 05:17 PM	Wow... one of my rule-crunching players and I were just starting to talk about how we wanted to improve the UA Generic system, so I thought I'd check out this "old" thread and scavenge a couple ideas. 45 minutes later, I finish reading 5 pages of stuff! Again I say, wow! Um, I applaud your entrepenurial plans... but of course I'd love to get this stuff for free instead! Some comments and thoughts: Cleric and Druid: if they can't be made exactly in UG, too bad! Arcane and Divine casting should be equal in cost. IMO, they are equal in ability, just with different focus, *IF* neither side starts with "can cast in armor". Which leads to... I didn't see a "can cast in armor" ability or feat. We (my players and I) had a differing thought for casting stat: INT for "spells known", WIS for "bonus spells per day", and CHA for "Spell DC". This is obviously weaker than normal spellcasting -- might this MADstyle restriciton have a place in UG? (And how would it, with the "1 restriction" rule?) Some feats are weaker than others. Toughness for +3 hp, or Improved Toughness for +1/lvl? Power Attack or Acrobatic? Check the Paragon Class thread for a comparison (by Haldrik, I think). PrCs... .the "evilgenius method" seems the clearest. Fighter to Arcane Archer? Give up feat progression, purchase Enhance Arrows. Oh, and btw, PrC progressions and feats.... Wow again! Gaining spells later in your career (i.e. Change of career "multiclassing")... give something up and pick up the progression you want. I suggest 6-level spells, since 4-lvl means you have to wait again, and 9-level isn't worth the price since you'll never get there.... Bardic spell progression.... core, it gets more spells known than Sorc, but fewer spells per day. I didn't see that option in UG, just a 6-level spontaneous option. Divine/Belief spells: Giving 2 domains is over the top, in UG, I think. That's essentially a "buy 1 spell casting, get 1-2 feats/progressions free" sale, not to mention also getting the extra daily spell. I think the extra stuff you rolled into the spellcasting purchases (I presume in order to make the Core classes) should be outside. The casters are already considered the "most powerful", usually in "Druid, Cleric, Wizard" order. 'K, that's all I've got say right now. The whole "go home, pick up the kids" thing is impinging on my time (only 18 minutes late leaving work!)....
Mandrake 09-04-05, 07:34 PM	This look very promising. But i too have a problem accessing your blog. I even signed up for Myspace.com but i cant find your blog anywhere... :confused:
sindar 09-05-05, 12:20 AM	Well using the Generic classes I was trying to a hybrid psychic warrior / monk. As I was spending my 15 points I found a problem Squire only grants 7 feats, a psychic warrior however has 8 bonus feats (all of which I need for the build, as well as 2 from flaws). After some quick math I came up with a mid-progression between Squire and Master. Expert 4 points You gain bonus feats at the following levels:1st, 2nd, 4th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, and 20th
deadDMwalking 09-05-05, 12:32 AM	I'm not a fan of the bonus feat progression you're offering, Sindar. It just seems that it is a way to get all the benefits of the "master" version for the first several levels. While advancement to 20th level may be standard in some games, it isn't in all. Your progression offers 8 feats in 20 levels. I'd think a 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th is better, offering only 7 feats. If 8 is truly desired, they could be offered at even levels only except 10th and 20th. 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th. Anyways, I like the general system and have been following for a long time, but I'd like to see it honed to the point where leveling is based on being granted a certain number of points, allowing for "multiclassing" easily between different builds. For example, perhaps I begin play as a fighter character, but it becomes apparent that the party needs a cleric. I can divert my "levels" into cleric spell progression, but not advance as much as a fighter.... Something like that.
sindar 09-05-05, 12:46 AM	I'm not a fan of the bonus feat progression you're offering, Sindar. It just seems that it is a way to get all the benefits of the "master" version for the first several levels. While advancement to 20th level may be standard in some games, it isn't in all. Your progression offers 8 feats in 20 levels. I'd think a 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th, 12th, 15th, 18th is better, offering only 7 feats. If 8 is truly desired, they could be offered at even levels only except 10th and 20th. 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th. Anyways, I like the general system and have been following for a long time, but I'd like to see it honed to the point where leveling is based on being granted a certain number of points, allowing for "multiclassing" easily between different builds. For example, perhaps I begin play as a fighter character, but it becomes apparent that the party needs a cleric. I can divert my "levels" into cleric spell progression, but not advance as much as a fighter.... Something like that. Your logic reguarding the feats does not match with the system as presented, both the squire and Master progressions offer a bonus feat at first and second level and end at 20. Squire (Genric expert UA) Three Points You gain bonus feats at the following levels:1st, 2nd, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, 20th Master (Genric Warrior UA) Six Points You gain bonus feats at the following levels:1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, 18th, 20th Both progessions front load (something they tryed to be rid of 3.5 but failed when they created the genric classes), this is why I feel it's ok for my progession to front load (just following WOTC example as there the games creator and publisher.). Also if you hate my bonus feat idea, I know your hate my unarmored defense progession ideas. My build (using the system as presented) 3/4 BAB (One Point), Two Save (Two Points), d8 (Two Points), Squire (Three Points), Light Combatant (One point) (1), AC bonus when unarmored (One Point), Psionic Teacher (Five Points) (Wis) Total: 15 points First level bonus feat:6th sense Additional Bonus feats: As fighter bonus feats My build (using using the feat progession I created) 3/4 BAB (One Point), One Save (one Points), d8 (Two Points), Expert (Four Points), Light Combatant (One point) (1), AC bonus when unarmored (One Point), Psionic Teacher (Five Points) (Wis) Total: 15 points First level bonus feat:6th sense
Crave 09-08-05, 11:41 AM	Ok, its time for me to come clean to you guys. I haven't worked on UG this summer. I know, this is going to annoy alot of you, and i deserve all the hate mail i get. The current system as it stands is nice, but still has a lot to hammer out, and a lot of work needs to be done, and i understand a lot of you will be annoyed. You have every right to be, but let me tell you why i haven't worked on UG. The truth of it all is, I'm only in highschool. I've been working hard at a near by ice cream store, and my parents are going through a crazy divorce. In the middle of the summer, i flew to the Dominican republic, my home country, where i spent some time with my father, who i hadn't seen for about 7 months, and only saw about monthy the previous school year. Long story short, computer usuage has been limited, internet access has been even more so. And amist all of this, i don't even know where im going to finish highschool, or if i can afford college for that manner. I work for all of my money on my own, my father at one point owed me close to 500 dollars, and my mother kept telling me she didn't have money to give me. So now I'm here, in the Dominican republic, working at a cyber cafe to earn a couple of extra pesos until stuff gets worked out. Now for the good news: While all this junk has been going on, I spent all that time off the internet reading my D&D books. What does that mean? The following: Psionics will be available by the end of september. New, completely original progressions and restrictions will be made, and The PrC system has been FIXED. I've also decided what im going to do with the publishing. I found a website where i can publish books, and if that doesnt work I'm getting a job at kinkos when i get back to NY (which I have been told is some time this weekend). Also, for all of you who wanted this material to continue free, well, it will. I took some influence from webcomics, and decided that i would update on a regular bases, like they do. The material will be posted free, weekly, on saturdays (or fridays), and you will be able to post comments on how to balance it. Then, when I have gotten through sufficient enough material, i will publish the book, but keep the free stuff on the internet. Everyone who playtests my material and posts balancing comments will be given credit to in the book, so when you go out and buy a copy, you actually have your online user name posted in it. Hopefully, this will lessen the tension and anxiety for new material, and if i work just hard enough, you guys may be seeing a website by christmas time. I thank everyone for there patience and support. If anyone can lend a helping hand, or a push in a good direction (Cheap webhosting, adspace, cheap hobby stores in the NY, NY area, or if anyone knows where i can by D&D stuff in the DR), it will all be appreciated. Until then, I'm running off right now to update the spells section, the feat progressions, and then to begin working on psionics. Peace. (Edited because i didn't know that the "p" word was considered a curse word on these message boards.) If anyone needs to contact me, my e-mail is Craveykins@gmail.com
Thelon Fairblade 09-09-05, 08:32 AM	Good luck with your RL situation, Crave! I think your publishing idea is a good one; I know several players in my group who have purchased the Order of the Stick books despite reading the comic religiously online.
Kidthulu 09-12-05, 11:56 AM	someone should totally make a char gen program for this.
Misato001 09-24-05, 08:25 AM	Hi, l love your work :D Will you be adding Eldritch Blast ?, plus Invocations to this ?
Bluntpencil2001 09-30-05, 12:42 PM	I love this system, it seriously eliminates scary multiclass prestige combos. BUT I think that your bonus feat progressions are unbalanced at low levels. If someone puts a lot of points into the 'Master' ability, they don't have any advantage over a 'Squire' or 'Warrior' for at least a couple of levels.
Bluntpencil2001 09-30-05, 01:54 PM	Hmm... I think I shall create a character using these rules! As always, a noble knight! (From a low-magic campaign! Because I can't be bothered sorting out magic gear.) Sir Jasperre d'Aleron, Lawful Good, Level 12 Human Knight Errant The Knight Errant Full Base Attack (3) Good Fortitude Save (1) d10 HD (3) Warrior (4) Heavy Combatant(3-1) Bardic Music (2) Zealot of the Gods Class Skills (2 points per level): Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Gather Information, Knowledge (History), Knowledge (Local), Knowledge(Nobility), Knowledge(Religion), Perform, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Survival STR 16 DEX 10 CON 16 INT 14 WIS 8 CHA 18 HP: 113 AC: 20 Saves: Fort+15, Ref+8, Will+7 Attack(Lance): +17/+12/+7 (D8+5/19-20/x3) Attack(Sword): +16/+11/+6 (D8+3/19-20) Attack(Hammer): +16/+11/+6 (D8+3/x3) Feats: Mounted Combat, Ride-by-Attack, Spirited Charge, Trample, Cavalry Charger Weapon Focus(Lance), Weapon Specialization(Lance), Improved Critical(Lance) Power Attack Bardic Knowledge Special Mount Special: Bardic Music 12/day (Countersong, Inspire Courage+2, Inspire Competence, Inspire Greatness, Song of Freedom) Divine Grace, Aura of courage and divine health. Note: Jasperre gains access to the Bardic Knowledge feat and Inspire Courage ability because he does not gain access to Fascinate or Suggestion. Skills: Diplomacy+17 GatherInfo+14 Handle Animal+9 Intimidate+5 Knowledge(History)+7 Knowledge(Local)+7 Knowledge(Nobility)+7 Knowledge(Religion)+3 Perform(Sing)+19 Ride+17 Sense Motive+4 Survival+3 Gear: Masterwork Fullplate, Masterwork Longsword, Masterwork Lance, Masterwork Heavy Shield, Masterwork Warhammer, Masterwork Light Chain (Chain Shirt) Barding, Masterwork Military saddle, Camping gear. Jasperre is a charismatic young knight, wandering from place to place doing good deeds such as saving damsels in distress, slaying vile monsters (like the dreaded Jabberwock!), defeating evildoers and ne'er-do-wells and rescuing kittens from trees (with his handy 10 foot long lance!). He is accompanied by his trusty warhorse named Belle and is armed with the finest weaponry the kingdom's artisans have to offer. He lives by his native wit, earning his meals and a bed to stay in for a performance, be it with his voice or his lance. He has sworn to never sleep under the same moon twice, his life an eternal quest of honour, it knows to settling down or peace.
Koga:The ninja trick 10-02-05, 12:48 AM	The Koga is VERY impressed! This is genious! You took the commoner, and made it into the onion kid of D&D! And succesfuly pulled off believable customization projects! The Koga would kiss you, but he aint that type of guy. :P
FlameLover 10-02-05, 01:40 AM	May i ask your position to use a modifed system of this in an RPG/CS I'm working on? I was going to have base, advanced and prestige classes or maybe advanced feats but i like this system alot more than what i have. So could i use some parts of it? I'd give you credit ofcourse :)
Theodoxus 10-16-05, 05:09 PM	Hey Crave, I was looking for some Generic class information and stumbled on your effort, and 7 hours later, after reading, dissecting, rereading and mashing rules together, I must say your effort is impressive. On that note, couple things I'd point out... Prestige classes - it was mentioned somewhere in there that prestige classes kind of turn a generic character concept on its head - being 'precise' instead of generic. I happen to agree, but I think that if prestige abilities were incorporated as feats, rather than progressions, it would greatly simplify the fuss. Feats can have some rather gruling prerequisites, and theres no reason that 'prestige' feats couldn't be even more so. Perhaps a linear progression of feats (not to steal your word) for most prestige classes. Of course, the player would be sacrificing his precious feats to accomplish it, but such feats would be more powerful than your typical ones. I don't think they'd work for some classes, like Thaumaturge. I also house ruled that Arcane and Divine masters cannot buy points in any type of the others spellcasting ability. This limits arcane damage with divine healing. Since there's no natural limiting factor on a generic character otherwise having both types of spells at the same time (unlike classic wizard/cleric, etc. where a player would have to multiclass and thus limit their power in such a way. In short, for my next campaign where I will be using this system, I going to convert more abilities into feats rather than progressions. This also adds a bonus for those players who choose to change concepts mid stream - as I can rework a basic 'generic template' faster if I'm not worrying about a lot of disjointed progressions. One more note, for non-atoned fallen classes, such as Law Bound - I changed the wording a little - the character looses all supernatural abilities bought with the restriction, but any extraordinary or ordinary abilities remain, though they can't progress unless Atoned. If the player does not atone, they create a new template. They are forbidden from using the original abilities bought with Law Bound, but any other abilities are fine, and if they keep some of their old ones, they will again progress normally. This to me seemed to limit the pain of remaking a new template while still forcing a player into limits based on their actions. All in all, this is really great - and a nice gem to discover. Thanks for your hard work, hope all is well. Theo
Thelon Fairblade 10-17-05, 09:33 AM	Yeah, one thought I had about prestige classes is to go back to the "prestige" concept. Keep things simple, make them "progressions" or "feats" as approprite, but require that either (a) they must be learned from an instructor (i.e. the prestigous organization), or (b) a "sacrifice feat" must be expended (i.e. "Self Taught X - you may now select a progression/feat from Prestige Class X", like "self-taught Arcane Archer")... Obviously, *someone* had to start the organization, and they wouldn't have had any teachers... but it is easier for someone to learn from an instructor! It would also allow "rogue" or "unalligned" characters who possess prestigious abilities but aren't members of the organization, and all the RP opportunities that might entail!
Crave 10-21-05, 06:23 PM	Huzzah! Bet you didn't see this one coming, did you? OK, so, good news everyone. I'm picking up html, and the website is in the works. The Psionic generics will be available, and so will a few new collums. I came up with the name for my site, which will also be the name of my upcoming game company. Uh...OH YEAH! I'm gonna be at Bakuretsucon (I think its a .org site) were i will be showing off the first form of my card game, "Traitor". If anyone is in the area, come on down and check it out. OK? Aight, peace everyone!
TheWinterBard 11-07-05, 06:28 PM	Several things: Firstly, this is beautiful and /very/ unique; obviously the most freeform class possible. I don't want to know how hard this was to organize, but... wow. This is exactly what I've been looking for for a while. Nice! Couple of questions, though; I'm sure the answers are in here somewhere but I have definitely overlooked them if they are. Is there any way to get evasion and/or improved evasion? Also, a couple bonus feats have as their prerequisite, "Wild Empathy", but I can't figure out how this is acquired in the first place. Aside from that, this is soo much spiffy. Or something :)
Theodoxus 11-07-05, 06:46 PM	When I originally read about the uber generics, there was something niggling at the back of my brain, and it took a lot of time and restructuring of the premise to work it out, and then it hit me. This allows for a very nice creation of a template for 1st - 20th level, ala the Savage Species book, but it doesn't allow for interchange of concept from level to level. I worked it out for myself to allow for just that thing, and I think it takes the bulky start and makes it rather elegant. Basically, you get 15 points to spend each level, same general restriction (can't have more than two of the 'good' stats, etc.) plus a few more to keep magic from getting out of linel; basically, if you started out with 12 points in a magic class, you can't 'downgrade' at a later point to buy back additional abilities. Whereever you stopped at with the mastery is where you're stuck. If you then buy a 6 point magic tradition, that tradition starts at 1st level (much like the classic paladin or ranger gaining spells at a higher level, but their progression starts at 1st level spells.) Essentially what this does is take the away from a templated viewpoint (ie, always stuck with Dx HD and 'y' skill points per level, etc.) and allows for variation as a character progresses. Feats are based on a simple point system, but limited to a maximum of 1 every other level, as per fighter; aside from the level bonus feats. Just thought I'd throw that out, in case anyone else was trying to design a character using this system and getting away from recreating the PHB classes and out into the world, and realizing the system didn't present any way to easily multiclass... Have fun all. Theo
Mind Rogue 11-10-05, 10:51 AM	Ya, that's bothered me too, and I think that I or someone else voiced that concern a long while ago. I had been working for a little while to create an even more generic generic class. The basic gist of the thing is that at each level, you get so many level points to increase your attributes that you spread arround between HD, BAB, saves, and skill points. You get the same amount of points at first level, but depending on which spot you put them in, they have some bonus effect, such as more weapon proficiencies for putting them into BAB or an extra point on the base save. So on that scale, you can try to change direction just by puttin the points into a different attribute. I don't recall the exact numbers I used, but you could effectively make any of the d20 Modern base classes with it, or you could end up with a fighter that effectively only has d8 HD. The second part is that at every odd level, you would get a special ability pulled off from a tree, which might include things like Evasion, Uncanny Dodge, Turn Undead, and so on. Thus, every odd level, you can try to change direction by picking up an ability off of a completely different tree, or you can continue in the same direction by picking a higher up tree ability. I am also thinking that there would be a +2 class points ability so that if your fighter kept taking it, it would average so that he would have the normal fighter BaB, HD, saves, and skill points but no abilities. Finally, at first level and every even level, you get a bonus feat in addition to the ones you get every third level and at zeroth level. Naturally, you have to meet the prerequisites for the feat. In the end, you can basically get any of the d20 Modern classes or the fighter, although they would have a little bit broader choice in the way of abilities and bonus feats. Most of the other classes couldn't be directly replicated, since they usually don't have so many bonus feats and they often require more abilities, but you might be able to create similar characters. Also, to create NPC classed people, you just have to remove the abilities and bonus feats. This can create the aristocrat, warrior, and expert classes, and your commoners will have a little substance (they'll be tougher, or better fighters, or they'll have skills).
TheWinterBard 11-17-05, 09:43 PM	Question: is there any way to acquire the lay on hands ability?
TheWinterBard 11-24-05, 08:11 PM	Wow, I keep asking questions... but I am confused.. The description for the Bardic Music progression states: "You gain the Bardic Music ability (as per the bard.) You gain your first song and counter song at first level. Then you gain another song at 2nd, 4th, 8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th. You may select any song you meet the requirements form." What list of songs is this going from? I have seen no list but the standard bard list, and those are not the levels at which songs are gained. Please help, I want to make a character with this feature!! :help:
Ra-Tiel 01-06-06, 05:51 AM	Hi. === Finally I found it again! :D Just a quick question, though... [...]I'm picking up html, and the website is in the works. The Psionic generics will be available, and so will a few new collums. I came up with the name for my site, which will also be the name of my upcoming game company.[...] Any chance of posting the url? I really like your idea! :) === Greetings, _Ra-Tiel.
Crave 01-06-06, 08:11 AM	Hi. === Finally I found it again! :D Just a quick question, though... Any chance of posting the url? I really like your idea! :) === Greetings, _Ra-Tiel. Thanks Ra-tiel, I actually lost the URL to this myself, and was hopping for this to happen. The site isn't done -yet- But i decided to work all of saturday so that I can hopefully put it up some time this week or the next, as for the issues stated earlier (reffering to lay on hands, bardic music, and the lack of class changing), I'll get on that. Thanks for the feedback, more soon. Happy 2006!
Tamelo 03-07-06, 06:32 PM	I've been following this for a while, and it seems to be coming along. Good work. In other words: BUMP
Kayoz_Majick 03-07-06, 09:41 PM	I have been kicking around UberGenerics for a while now. One of the things that I have noticed, and racked my brain trying to come up with a solution is... Yep, Turn/Rebuke Undead. The ONLY reference I found to this is in the Belief/Religion blurb. It states Beliefs/religion: Belief/religion characters always have to choose what type of energy they use, positive or negative. If they choose positive, they gain the ability to cast cure spells spontaneously by using a spell per day of appropriate level, and they can only turn undead. If they choose negative, then they can spontaneously cast any inflict spells by using a spell per day of appropriate level. Also, they can only rebuke undead. Both always come with Aura of (insert alignment). You also gain two domains that have some sort of relation to your belief or religion, but can only prepare spells from one of your selected domains This does NOT cost points, and has no other stated prereqs.... SCARY!!! If read correctly (or incorrectly in my sickly devious mind) any character can gain the ability to turn/rebuke undead and channel energy without spending any points please help me if I am totally mistaken on this!!! :plotting: :uh-huh: :nonono: :mymy: :blink: :shocked: :OMG!
Kayoz_Majick 03-10-06, 09:32 AM	:bump:ity :bump: :bump:, :bump:ity :bump: :bump:, look at frosty go....... :D
TheWinterBard 03-10-06, 06:26 PM	If read correctly (or incorrectly in my sickly devious mind) any character can gain the ability to turn/rebuke undead and channel energy without spending any points Well, it seems to me that what should really be said is "it doesn't cost any /extra/ points". You have to be able to do the belief/religious casting of spells first, and that does cost.
Evanta 04-16-06, 05:52 AM	This deserves a bump!
Kayoz_Majick 04-20-06, 09:59 PM	Psionic Ocean Six Points You gain highest level of Power Point Reserves Psionic Lake Two Points You gain a medium level of Power Point Reserves Psionic Puddle One Point You gain the lowest level of Power Point Reserves ------------------------- Psionic Master Three Points You gain the 9th level of psionic Power Levels Known Psionic Teacher Two Points You gain the 6th level of psionic Power Levels Known Psionic Student One Point You gain the 4th level of psionic Power Levels Known ------------------------- Psionic Knight Three Points You gain the highest level of Psionic Powers Known (can only be taken with Psionic Master) Psionic Squire Two Points You gain the medium level of Psionic Powers Known Psionic Page One Point You gain the lowest level of Psionic Powers Known ========= Psionic: Psionic characters tap the power of the mind and body to achieve fantastic results. They embrace the immense power of consciousness directly, manifesting their internal desires directly on the world by force of will alone. Mental Discipline: By utilizing a strict regimen of meditation, you undergo an internal quest of self-revelation and subconscious discovery over months or even years. Overcoming the internal fears and demons that plague us all, you learn to call upon an ever growing internal reservoir of psionic power to shape the world around you. This casting style is similar to the Sorcerer, with some subtle and yet major differences. The first difference between the two being that there is a power point reserve from which the psionic character draws from to “cast” their spells. Another difference being that the sorcerer is a live-by-the-seat-of –your-pants character, while the mentally disciplined psionic character is more akin to the monk with daily routines of meditation and self-discovery. This style of psionic character can manifest their powers either from being wise (wisdom) or more commonly studious (intelligence). Raw Emotion: With strict mental discipline comes vast power; at the opposite end of the psionic spectrum comes pure, raw emotion. With a passion seldom matched by any character, except perhaps the rare divine caster, this type of psionic character runs down the path of psionic power. Being able to exceed normal capabilities with surges of raw emotion, you increase greatly the powers manifested, but also risk a mental burn out. Discipline has no meaning to this character, having achieved power by throwing temper tantrums. ==--==--==--==--==--== Psionic: With psionics, you gain a power point reserve which increases per level and a number of powers known. You also gain a number of bonus points depending on how high your casting stat is. There are also three progressions to choose from; power point advancement, powers known and max power level known. You must first choose your Power Point Progression, then Maximum Power Level Known, and finally the number of Powers Known. ==--==--==--==--==--== Power Point Progression Level High Mid Low None* 1 2 1 0 0 2 6 3 1 0 3 11 6 3 0 4 17 10 5 0 5 25 15 7 0 6 35 21 11 0 7 46 28 15 0 8 58 36 19 0 9 72 45 23 0 10 88 55 27 0 11 106 66 35 0 12 126 78 43 0 13 147 91 51 0 14 170 105 59 0 15 195 120 67 0 16 221 136 79 0 17 250 153 91 0 18 280 171 103 0 19 311 190 115 0 20 343 210 127 0 *Can only be chosen with the Psionic Feat Progression Maximum Power Level Known Level 9th 6th 4th None* 1 1st 1st 1st 0 2 1st 1st 1st 0 3 2nd 1st 1st 0 4 2nd 2nd 1st 0 5 3rd 2nd 1st 0 6 3rd 2nd 2nd 0 7 4th 3rd 2nd 0 8 4th 3rd 2nd 0 9 5th 3rd 2nd 0 10 5th 4th 2nd 0 11 6th 4th 3rd 0 12 6th 4th 3rd 0 13 7th 5th 3rd 0 14 7th 5th 3rd 0 15 8th 5th 3rd 0 16 8th 6th 4th 0 17 9th 6th 4th 0 18 9th 6th 4th 0 19 9th 6th 4th 0 20 9th 6th 4th 0 *Can only be chosen with the Psionic Feat Progression Powers Known Level High¹ Mid² Low² None³ 1 3 1 1 0 2 5 2 2 0 3 7 3 2 0 4 9 4 3 0 5 11 5 3 0 6 13 6 4 0 7 15 7 4 0 8 17 8 5 0 9 19 9 5 0 10 21 10 6 0 11 22 11 6 0 12 24 12 7 0 13 25 13 7 0 14 27 14 8 0 15 28 15 8 0 16 30 16 9 0 17 31 17 9 0 18 33 18 10 0 19 34 19 10 0 20 36 20 11 0 1. Can only be chosen with 9th or 6th level Powers Known. 2. Can be chosen with any level of Powers Known 3. Can only be chosen with the Psionic Feat Progression myself: any helpful suggestions or helpful snide remarks would be much appreciated. Just trying to keep this alive and out there.... If anyone has already done this, or has the URL to Crave's site, that would be nice too.
Kayoz_Majick 04-20-06, 10:06 PM	BONUS FEATS Uncanny Dodge: retain bonus to Dex even if caught flat footed. If immobile, Dex bonus no longer applies. Improved Uncanny Dodge: Can no longer be flanked. Prerequisite: Uncanny Dodge. Master of the Dead: Can control up to (Class level * 5) HD of Skeletons and Zombies by making a Charisma check vs. DC (15 + HD). If the you or your allies attack the target (before or after the check), it cannot be controlled. Receive a –2 penalty on Fortitude saves vs. Negative Levels. Prerequisites: must be evil, and have highest spell progression of Arcane, Divine or Psionics. Special: you now have pale skin, a low body temperature, and glassy looking eyes. Aura of the Grave: You no longer need to sleep and are now immune to sleep effects; you are immune to natural diseases. Prerequisites: Master of the Dead Special: Your skin becomes stretched and your eyes look hollow. Knowledge (arcane) check of DC 25 will now identify you as being a Deathwalker. Shroud of Death: You gain a +4 circumstance bonus on saves against Poison, Paralysis and Mind-affecting effects. Also gain a 50% resistance to sneak attacks and critical hits. You no longer need to eat and sleep. Prerequisites: Aura of the Grave. Special: Receive a –2 penalty on Charisma, Bluff, and Diplomacy checks against non-Undead. Mastery of Undeath: You can Turn/Rebuke Undead as a cleric of the same level (1 + Charisma modifier) times per day (if already able to Turn/Rebuke Undead, gain a +6 bonus to the check). Prerequisites: Shroud of Death. Special: You begin to look very corpse-like. Mantle of Undeath: You gain the undead subtype descriptor. Prerequisites: Mastery of Undeath. PROGRESSIONS! Battle Ecstasy: Three Points You gain a +4 bonus to Dexterity and Constitution, a -2 penalty on Will saves, a +1 bonus to your Damage Reduction (DR 1 / — if you do not have any yet). Resonant Music: Two Points You learn songs that boost your allies. Discordant Music: Two Points You learn songs that negatively affect your enemies. Thunder Strike: Five Points You can release electricity to damage and deafen enemies. Flailing Strike Two Points Take a penalty for random number of extra attacks. Displacing Stance: One point Enter stance to gain a percent miss chance. Smite Heathen: Three Points You gain the Smite Heathen progression as listed in chapter 5. Smite Construct: Three Points You gain the Smite Construct progression as listed in chapter 5. Turn/Rebuke Construct: One Point Gain the ability to Turn/Rebuke Constructs. Prerequisites: Must be able to Turn/Rebuke Undead. Turn/Rebuke Heathen: One Point Prevent Divine casters from casting spells for a period of time. Blessed Radiance: Two Points You gain the Blessed Radiance progression as listed in chapter 5. Prerequisites: Must be a Divine Caster and take the Zealot of the Gods restriction. Deathwalker: Three Points You gain the Deathwalker Progression as listed in Chapter 5. PROGRESSIONS! (Extended) Battle Ecstasy: You gain Battle Ecstasy at 1st level and an extra rage at 4th level, and every four levels there after (8th, 12th, 16th, and 20th). You gain Indomitable Will at level 14, Tireless Battle Ecstasy at level 17 (same as Tireless Rage), and Mighty Rage at level 20. Resonant Music: At level 1 you learn Inspire Courage (+ 1 bonus) countersong and fascinate, at level 3 you learn Inspire Competence, at level 6 you learn Suggestion, at level 8 Inspire Courage is improved to a +2 bonus, at level 9 you learn Inspire Greatness, at level 12 you learn the Song of Freedom, at level 14 Inspire Courage is improved to a +3 bonus, at level 15 you learn Inspire Heroics, at level 18 you learn Mass Suggestion, at level 20 Inspire Courage is improved to a +4 bonus. Discordant Music: At level 1, you can learn Instill Fear(- 1 penalty) countersong and fascinate, at level 3 you can learn Encourage Failure, at level 6 you learn Suggestion, at level 8 Instill Fear is improved to a -2 penalty, at level 9 you learn Dishearten, at level 12 you learn the Dirge of Binding, at level 14 Instill Fear is improved to a -3 penalty, at level 18 you learn Drain Prowess and Mass Suggestion, at level 20 Instill Fear is improved to a -4 Penalty. Thunder Strike: As part of a melee attack you may discharge electrical energy causing electrical damage (no save) and make the opponent deaf (Save vs. Fort to Neg, DC is constitution based). Temporary deafness lasts for 3d6 rounds. Starts at level 2 for 1d6 electrical damage 1/day. Increases by 1d6 damage and 1/day at levels 6, 11, 15, and 20 Flailing Strike: When making a Full Round Attack with either Unarmed Strike or a light weapon, you have the option of taking a Penalty to hit (–2 at 1st, –1 at 5th, –0 at 9th) to receive a random number of extra attacks (minimum +0). Number of attacks; Level 1= 1d4-1, level 5= 1d4, level 10= 1d6-1, level 15= 1d6 Displacing Stance: When active, attacks on you have a 20% Miss Chance at 7th level and a 50% at 12th level. Activating this ability is a Standard Action and it can be used (½ class level) rounds per day. Smite Heathen: Add Charisma modifier to the attack roll & +1/class level damage. Must be declared before the attack is made. If the target is not in a class that can cast Divine spells, then the smite damage has no effect. This ability does not affect those who share your own faith. Smite Construct: This ability works just like ‘Smite Evil’, except the Construct can be of any alignment. Turn/Rebuke Heathen: You can use a ‘Turning’-like ability on Divine spellcasters. You make a Turn Check and Turn Damage rolls as a Cleric three levels lower. Casters that are “Turned” cannot cast Divine spells for 1 minute. If “Destroyed”, the caster cannot cast Divine spells for 24 hours. Either effect is cancelled if you (but not your allies) attack the target –or– the target receives an Atonement spell. This works the same for either Turning or Rebuking. Turn/Rebuke Construct: Able to Turn / Destroy Constructs as a Cleric three levels lower Usable 3 + Charisma modifier times per day. Blessed Radiance: Cast Daylight as a Free Action. The spell is always centered on you and is cast at your effective level. Starting at level 5, 1/day, and increasing 1/day every 5 levels to a maximum of 4/day at level 20. Deathwalker: gain the following feats; Master of the Dead level 1, Aura of the Grave level 5, Shroud of Death level 10, Mastery of Undead level 15, Mantle of Undeath level 20. Also gains alternate ability to summon Undead Familiar (same restrictions and abilities apply)
Kayoz_Majick 04-20-06, 10:09 PM	*Divine Student Two Points You gain up to 4th level divine spells. *Divine Teacher Four Points You gain up to 6th level divine spells. Special: Turn/Rebuke Undead costs one less point, cannot take Nature’s keeper as a restriction. *Divine Master Twelve Points You gain up to 9th level divine spells. Special: Turn/Rebuke Undead costs two less points, cannot take Nature’s keeper as a restriction. Turn/Rebuke Undead Two Points You gain the ability to turn or rebuke undead.
Kayoz_Majick 04-20-06, 10:39 PM	Standard Cleric: 3/4 (1), Two Saves (2), d8 (2), Medium Combatant (2- 2), Divine Master (12-3), Turn/Rebuke Undead (2-2) = 15 uhm maybe for a restriction have it reduce cost of Divine Master by 3, and Medium Combatant by 1, and if code is broken all casting ability and turn/rebuke ability lost (which is true for the cleric) until attoned for. thats about the only way that I see it working.. more to come for the psionic classes... rough drafts above,....... :)
Crave 04-22-06, 06:34 PM	Hey everyone. I stopped in after noticing that Uber Generics has jumped up again in the wizard’s boards. While I must say I am thrilled that people are still excited about Uber Generics, I must ask politely that no one please post any new material for it. I have dreams of some day publishing this work, but I've been busy with family issues, legal issues, and a recent death. I can't tell you when exactly new work will come, but if you could please enjoy the work that has been laid out so far, I will try my hardest to some day bring this all back into its former glory. Until then, please remain patient. Thank. Crave PS nice work Kayoz, though I disagree with some of that stuff.
Kayoz_Majick 04-23-06, 01:10 AM	No offence taken, Crave. Sorry if I gave any. Was looking through it again the other day, and decided to post some thoughts. I will refrain from this in the future :) My condolences to you for the death in your family, it's never easy to lose a loved one.
Blazinghand 05-11-06, 10:59 PM	:bump: More people should see this. This is truly an amazing concept which is beautifully developed. I can't wait to see book three, should it be made. This is the best "build a class" rule set I've seen. Using it, a DM could also make a set of alternate classes for use in place of the PHB base classes. I applaud your work. I read this a few months ago, and bookmarked it. I used it in a couple of campaigns, and from what I have seen, it works beautifully. Just letting you know there are some loyal readers out there, Crave.
DarthReaper 05-15-06, 09:25 PM	Crave I love the Uber Generics and now that the Psionic progressions are up I'm very excited and can't wait to use them, I will most likely allow my players to build there starting base class using the Uber generic rules and allow them to multiclass as normal but only with the players handbook classes and prestiage classes. Also have you given any thought to creating a Modern Uber Generics ?
Crave 05-16-06, 12:25 AM	Hey guys thanks for the reply. Modern generics will not be made, simply because i think the class system is fine. However, I've seen many attempts at a "d20 fantasy" adn will, instead, persue my own vision on how D&D can be played usin gthe d20 modern classes. I also plan on making a "d20 superhuman", using current rules involving the d20 system to stat out builds for super heroes using the d20 classes. I gave some thought to creating base classes then prestige classes but the design got a wee bit too genre specific and other things began tangling my web, so i decided the d20 classes would fit closest. I have read mutants and masterminds, but I wanted to write my own system. No reason, just 'cause. As for the future of uber generics, uber generics is going under a heavy revision, called "uber generics: Recall". This is going to fix many of the little bugs in the system and tweak it, making it easier to use, a bit more flexible and a hell of a lot easier to read. A lot of the insipration actually, came from mutants and masterminds (as did the original system, note the 15 points per class thing). When will the revision be up? I don't know, hopefully soon, but I'm trying to work around my everyday work schedule to find time to write it. I've also been attempting to save up money for a laptop so that way i can write all the time. My big problem is that I've been spending a lot of my time outside the house, mostly because I'm at work or a new friend from college just came back, so i go hang out with them. I wanna get one of those super cheap dell laptops so i can work all the time, friends house and everything. hopefully, I'll be seeing that kind of money soon. I've been debating about whether or not i should put out a black and white book with all the uber generics material in it, and some extra free bees for cheap, (like, 10 bucks a copy) so that It can make way too getting a laptop so i can speed things up, but hopefully that wont be necessary. anyways, I figured i should just give you guys an update. The first section, the "intro page" has been revised, and so has the first chapter. I'm currently working through the second chapter, updates will come more frequently, I'm hoping each wensday i'll update a certian amount of new material, and then reward myself with comic books. I will also start making more frequent posts on this thread, and hopefully start giving you guys updates on my life and such. Just in case anyone was interested. Anyways, I'll see you guys around, thanks for the dedication. PS: I WILL be attending Gen Con, Indy, so anyone who wants to find me and give me a nuggie for not updating is welcome to do so ^_^
Blazinghand 05-20-06, 04:17 PM	It is cool that you are going to refine the Uber Generics system. It certainly beats the (non-uber) generics system that UA has. I like the psionics system, too. On the first page, it would be a good idea to link to the second book, because unless someone knows where it is, it is hard to find prestige progressions, UA rules, etc. on the third page. (Oh, and uh, :bump:.)
Crave 05-30-06, 02:05 AM	Ok, so update time. I did some net shopping and I'm thinking about picking up an account with Cologuys (http://webhosting.cologuys.com/) because they host Machall (www.machall.com), and machall rocks. I'm finishing up most of the big uber generics re make, which will include a few very much asked for changes. Once thats up, I'm gonna ask a friend of mine for some cover art and release the uber generics "White book". This will lead to the buying of a basic dell laptop and a website, which will then lead to a much more frequent update. I've got a lot of ideas planned for you guys, like d20 class system stuff, a campaign setting I've been writing, and some blog info so you guys can all know what I'm doing. Hmm, what else. Oh yeah, my senior prom is this friday, I saw x-men 3 (on release night) and my girlfriend is making me read holly black books. Does anyone know who holly black is? Because I've asked every nerd i know and no one does. Thats all for now. Hopefully, some time late tommorrow, recall will be posted. Finger crossed comrads. Crave.
Crave 05-31-06, 01:16 AM	So I wasn't able to get Recall up, and I got flooded with work hours around my prom. Now I need to go by some impossible schedule tommorrow to make sure I can have my tux. Yah, Thats just like me to go promising something and then not do it. Sorry ladies and gents, but recall has to wait. I'm so close to quiting my job its not funny. Anyways, I gotta do somehting, so heres a teaser of things to come: Untouchable Through dificult training, you have mastered how to be physically untouchable. Point Value: One (1) Ties: Physical (Dex, Con). Mental (Wisdom) Sub-tie: Mystic (Arcanic, Religious, Natural, Psionic), Societal (law) When unarmored and unencumbered, you gain a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks. This bonus applies to your AC against touch attacks and when flatfooted. You loose the bonus when you are immobilized, helpless, wearing any form of armor when carrying a shield or when carrying a medium or heavy load. Ties Dex: Your untouchable bonus is also added to all reflex saves. You still retain your bonus when wearing light armor. This progression also cost an additional point. Con: You now add your constitution bonus to your AC, and you still retain your bonus when carrying a medium load. This progression also cost an additional point. Wis: Your wisdom bonus is now added to your AC. This progression costs an additional point Sub-ties Law If you tie untouchable to wisdom, you may also sub tie it to law. Doing this adds a law restriction to the progression. You can only continue taking levels in a class featuring this progression if your alignment is lawful. If you change your alignment outside of law, you may no longer take levels in a class featuring this progression but still retain the ability up to the level you have accomplished. Taking this sub tie reduces the cost by one. Mystic The untouchable ability is now considered a magical bonus to your AC which stacks with any other bonus (except when tied to nature, see below). If it is tied to arcane casting, its considered a spell like ability and can be dispelled. If it is psionically tied, its considered a psionic bonus and can be removed by dispell psionics. If its tied to divine (belief) it is a bonus granted to you by your beliefs and is considered a divine ability which can also be dispelled. If it is a divine (nature) ability, it counts as a natural armor bonus. The stat you use to cast spells is added to your AC, and if you ever lose access to your spell casting power, run out of spells per day, spell points or power points, you also lose your bonus until you regain access. More to come buds. Till then, I'm posting the chicken scratch versions of the first 2 chapters. Enjoy.
Crave 06-26-06, 02:25 PM	Wow, have i seriously not updated since prom? Thats wack. anyways, i decided the boys at coldstone can go ahead and take the ice cream where the sun don't shine, so now that i quit my job i got more time to do what I've been wanting to do: Work on uber generics. I'm gonna see if i can spend a goood deal of today and tommorrow writting and job hunting, maybe spend a little bit of time with my babe, but i figured i should give you guys an update. Oh, and if your not reading Marvel's Civil War, you should be. Thats all for now.
Voila! 10-13-06, 06:16 PM	I just stumbled across this old thread, and I have to say I like it. I just have one question: where does it say how many points you get and when? I've looked up and down and can't find that anywhere.
Crave 10-16-06, 01:32 AM	Every time you take a new level in a new class, you get 15 points to spend on that class alone. (More later....Wow)
Ra-Tiel 12-09-06, 06:36 PM	:bump: How's it going Crave? You know you have a bunch of drooling idiots out here waiting for the next update? ;) :D :P
Rangerman 12-10-06, 08:43 PM	Crave do you have a PDF version of this? The one on the first page of the thread doesn't seem to be working.
Tytalus 02-06-07, 09:56 PM	What's the status of this work? Is there a a recent update? Maybe a PDF version?
PhaedrusXY 02-06-07, 11:19 PM	Absolutely fantastic. I can't believe that I didn't see this before. I made a fighter/monk generic replacement a while back based along similiar lines. To see the entire core rules set done like this just blows my mind. Great job! I just downloaded the entire thread! This is only the second one that I've ever done that with. :D I would love to have a PDF of this, also. And if you haven't, you might check out the Mutants and Masterminds d20 game. It is a superhero game that is at its core d20 based, but uses a completely generic character building system similiar to what you have here (but with totally different, super-hero type powers).
FrostWolf 02-11-07, 01:33 PM	I like this! Can you please add something? The articifer from Eberron gets an ability called Craft Homuculus at forth level. Lets you make construcs that are weaker than golems, and upgrade their HD (by adding more for time and money) later. If this was already added, on what page of this topic? I was looking to build a sort of Arcane Ranger thing that got a little construct instead of an animal companion. (Mechanic/Ranger-thing...) Sorry, and thank you in advanced.