UnA Paladin of Freedom [Archive] - Wizards Community

UnA Paladin of Freedom [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ghorrin
02-16-04, 08:25 PM Hey there,

So I've been chewing on Unearthed Arcana for a few days now. I like the variant paladin ideas, filling out the other corners of the alignment grid. I like the Paladin of Freedom to the point where I might make one up to be my "emergency standby character," the pre-cooked guy you keep around and ready to step in as a replacement if your current PC becomes purple worm chow. But I have a question or two about them.

1) They have an aura of resolve that gives them immunity to compulsion effects. Anyone else find it odd that while they're immune to compulsion, they're still affected by charm effects?

2) I think giving them Remove disease as a spell-like ability makes them feel a little too much like standard paladins (the only game-mechanic difference between the two becomes what their auras protect against). I was thinking that instead, PoF's could Break enchantment. If you think that might be more/too powerful, maybe change the Target for this Sp to simply be "One living creature" instead of one per caster level.

I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks. Let freedom ring, baby!

Later on,
Ghorrin
Fiendish Dire Weasel
02-17-04, 12:44 AM Gah! Book... not... out... here... Argh! The Paladin of Freedom has been one of the things I've really been looking forward to. Someone needs to post it (with a copy of the OGC for leagal purposes) *hint* *hint* :angel:
Mutant for Hire
02-17-04, 01:02 AM Compulsion is a denial of freedom, whereas charm is influence without denial of choice.

And I consider the Cure Disease part of the "Good" axis, rather than the "Lawful" part. Remember that the other two Paladins get "Cause Disease".
LaegolasGreenleaf
02-18-04, 12:45 PM Ghorrin
Are there any good ranger variants in Unearthed Arcana?
Krelios
02-18-04, 01:15 PM The Urban Ranger and the Wilderness Rogue are both good Ranger variants. They also have a Prestige version of the Ranger (along with the Bard and Paladin) but that would require the removal of those as basic classes.
Ghorrin
02-18-04, 05:31 PM What Krelios said, plus there's also a Planar variant to the ranger (fiendish/celestial animals).

Mutant, it just strikes me as a little odd that PoFs have got immunity to the stronger of the two effects, but are still susceptible to the weaker one. I'm wracking my brain, but I can't recall any prior instances of an ability affecting charm or compulsion, but not both. Can you?

Later on,
Ghorrin
ZebRaderJedi
02-20-04, 07:47 PM Ghorrin, I really like your Break Enchantment idea.

*yoink* :D

Cheers!
Zeb
Ghorrin
02-21-04, 01:58 AM Zeb, I'm just curious, are you going to yoink it exactly as the spell, or using my one-target-only idea (the more I think about it, the more I like it as the latter)?

Also, any chance I could get you to throw 2 copper pieces at my aura of resolve dilemma?

Later on,
Ghorrin
Fiendish Dire Weasel
02-21-04, 03:02 AM I think being immune to compulsions has more downsides than being immune to fear: Bless, Prayer, Heroism and Aid are, among other beneficial spells compulsions you can no longer have effect you, I don't think there are any benificial fear effects. While there are a lot of compulsion effects I think fear is a much more widespread ability for critters to have. Considering that this ability is a bit less powerful than immunity to fear and due to the nature of the class/source of the ability, I would say including charms wouldn't be too bad, since charms are just weaker compulsions. It would be like if immunity to fear didn't protect you from being shaken :)
Ghorrin
02-21-04, 10:10 AM Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel
...Bless, Prayer, Heroism and Aid are, among other beneficial spells compulsions you can no longer have effect you...

Yumpin' yiminy, I hadn't even thought of that angle! I suppose you can't lower your aura to receive a beneficial effect like you can with spell resisitance, eh? Hmmm. Well, if you can't, this might all file under P for, "the Price you pay for getting most of a paladin's powers with a much less restrictive code of conduct."

Later on,
Ghorrin
ZebRaderJedi
02-21-04, 11:05 AM Originally posted by Ghorrin
Zeb, I'm just curious, are you going to yoink it exactly as the spell, or using my one-target-only idea (the more I think about it, the more I like it as the latter)?

Also, any chance I could get you to throw 2 copper pieces at my aura of resolve dilemma?

Later on,
Ghorrin

Sure thing, Ghorrin! I like the one-target-only idea a lot, and that's what I'll use.

As for Aura of Resolve, I was thinking about having it work exactly like the Holy Liberator Prc ability: "Immune to Charm and Compulsion" - that's both a positive and a negative, plus as a bonus keeps the rules the same for classes and PrCs. Defenders of the Faith has the HL PrC if you don't happen to have that book.

What do ya think? IMHO, PoF is basically a core class HL.

Zeb
Ghorrin
02-21-04, 11:15 AM Hey,

I don't have DotF, so I'd basically forgotten about the holy liberator. I'll have to take a look at them when I'm at my buddy's place later today, but I bet you're right, PoFs pretty much replace them straight away. As far as the term 'holy liberator' goes, I figure that becomes the name for the CG equivalent of a holy avenger sword... :)

Later on,
Ghorrin
ZebRaderJedi
02-21-04, 11:25 AM Hey, Holy Liberator as the name for the "Holy Avenger" weapon for a PoF sound great!

When you take a look at HL, check out it doesn't have remove disease, the "subversion" ability is pretty well in synch with your Break Enchanmtment by person idea.

Game on,
Zeb
Kaardomos
02-21-04, 12:08 PM Originally posted by Ghorrin
Yumpin' yiminy, I hadn't even thought of that angle! I suppose you can't lower your aura to receive a beneficial effect like you can with spell resisitance, eh?
As long as you concider the aura to be a "special resistance to magic", you can voluntarily be effected.
3.5 PHB pg 177:
Even a character with a special resistance to magic(Such as an elf's resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this quality.
Alaina
02-23-04, 12:42 AM page 58 gives another option for your "backup guy" with a substitution for remove disease/other defensive powers

i think the Paladin of Tyranny looks like a dude with BMF on his wallet.
flyingmoose
02-23-04, 01:54 AM Say, whaddya call the standard paladin now (assuming you allow the other three)? Paladin of Tyranny, Paladin of Slaughter, Paladin of Freedom... Paladin of Justice? Paladin of Righteousness?

Somebody help me out here.
Fiendish Dire Weasel
02-23-04, 02:20 AM UA says "Paladin of Honor", though "Paladin of Justice" doesn't sound to bad either.
RoastSlinky
02-23-04, 03:46 AM Paladin of Justice would be better for my LN Fighter/Cleric of St. Cuthbert......
caeruleus
02-23-04, 10:01 AM Check out Dragon issue #310, which had paladins of different alignments. If I recall correctly, the chaotic good version (called an Avenger) had break enchantment instead of remove disease. I don't remember if it was able to use it the same number of times per week that the standard paladin used remove disease, or whether it slowed down the progression.

Another thing I liked about the version in Dragon is that it had an aura of chaos, detect law, and smite law, rather than aura of good, detect evil, and smite evil.

Draco Caeruleus
Fiendish Dire Weasel
02-23-04, 01:58 PM Paladin of Justice would be better for my LN Fighter/Cleric of St. Cuthbert...... I disagree personally. I always have seen "Justice" being LG, not LN. LN is order/law, which as we see in real life, law often has nothing to do with justice.
Another thing I liked about the version in Dragon is that it had an aura of chaos, detect law, and smite law, rather than aura of good, detect evil, and smite evil. Personally, I'd rather have smite evil than smite law, which is better for a CG Paladin though, I'm not sure. Considering the LG Paladin doesn't have smite chaos, the CG Paladin having smite evil makes sense.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ghorrin 02-16-04, 08:25 PM	Hey there, So I've been chewing on Unearthed Arcana for a few days now. I like the variant paladin ideas, filling out the other corners of the alignment grid. I like the Paladin of Freedom to the point where I might make one up to be my "emergency standby character," the pre-cooked guy you keep around and ready to step in as a replacement if your current PC becomes purple worm chow. But I have a question or two about them. 1) They have an aura of resolve that gives them immunity to compulsion effects. Anyone else find it odd that while they're immune to compulsion, they're still affected by charm effects? 2) I think giving them Remove disease as a spell-like ability makes them feel a little too much like standard paladins (the only game-mechanic difference between the two becomes what their auras protect against). I was thinking that instead, PoF's could Break enchantment. If you think that might be more/too powerful, maybe change the Target for this Sp to simply be "One living creature" instead of one per caster level. I'd love to hear what anyone else thinks. Let freedom ring, baby! Later on, Ghorrin
Fiendish Dire Weasel 02-17-04, 12:44 AM	Gah! Book... not... out... here... Argh! The Paladin of Freedom has been one of the things I've really been looking forward to. Someone needs to post it (with a copy of the OGC for leagal purposes) hint hint :angel:
Mutant for Hire 02-17-04, 01:02 AM	Compulsion is a denial of freedom, whereas charm is influence without denial of choice. And I consider the Cure Disease part of the "Good" axis, rather than the "Lawful" part. Remember that the other two Paladins get "Cause Disease".
LaegolasGreenleaf 02-18-04, 12:45 PM	Ghorrin Are there any good ranger variants in Unearthed Arcana?
Krelios 02-18-04, 01:15 PM	The Urban Ranger and the Wilderness Rogue are both good Ranger variants. They also have a Prestige version of the Ranger (along with the Bard and Paladin) but that would require the removal of those as basic classes.
Ghorrin 02-18-04, 05:31 PM	What Krelios said, plus there's also a Planar variant to the ranger (fiendish/celestial animals). Mutant, it just strikes me as a little odd that PoFs have got immunity to the stronger of the two effects, but are still susceptible to the weaker one. I'm wracking my brain, but I can't recall any prior instances of an ability affecting charm or compulsion, but not both. Can you? Later on, Ghorrin
ZebRaderJedi 02-20-04, 07:47 PM	Ghorrin, I really like your Break Enchantment idea. yoink :D Cheers! Zeb
Ghorrin 02-21-04, 01:58 AM	Zeb, I'm just curious, are you going to yoink it exactly as the spell, or using my one-target-only idea (the more I think about it, the more I like it as the latter)? Also, any chance I could get you to throw 2 copper pieces at my aura of resolve dilemma? Later on, Ghorrin
Fiendish Dire Weasel 02-21-04, 03:02 AM	I think being immune to compulsions has more downsides than being immune to fear: Bless, Prayer, Heroism and Aid are, among other beneficial spells compulsions you can no longer have effect you, I don't think there are any benificial fear effects. While there are a lot of compulsion effects I think fear is a much more widespread ability for critters to have. Considering that this ability is a bit less powerful than immunity to fear and due to the nature of the class/source of the ability, I would say including charms wouldn't be too bad, since charms are just weaker compulsions. It would be like if immunity to fear didn't protect you from being shaken :)
Ghorrin 02-21-04, 10:10 AM	Originally posted by Fiendish Dire Weasel ...Bless, Prayer, Heroism and Aid are, among other beneficial spells compulsions you can no longer have effect you... Yumpin' yiminy, I hadn't even thought of that angle! I suppose you can't lower your aura to receive a beneficial effect like you can with spell resisitance, eh? Hmmm. Well, if you can't, this might all file under P for, "the Price you pay for getting most of a paladin's powers with a much less restrictive code of conduct." Later on, Ghorrin
ZebRaderJedi 02-21-04, 11:05 AM	Originally posted by Ghorrin Zeb, I'm just curious, are you going to yoink it exactly as the spell, or using my one-target-only idea (the more I think about it, the more I like it as the latter)? Also, any chance I could get you to throw 2 copper pieces at my aura of resolve dilemma? Later on, Ghorrin Sure thing, Ghorrin! I like the one-target-only idea a lot, and that's what I'll use. As for Aura of Resolve, I was thinking about having it work exactly like the Holy Liberator Prc ability: "Immune to Charm and Compulsion" - that's both a positive and a negative, plus as a bonus keeps the rules the same for classes and PrCs. Defenders of the Faith has the HL PrC if you don't happen to have that book. What do ya think? IMHO, PoF is basically a core class HL. Zeb
Ghorrin 02-21-04, 11:15 AM	Hey, I don't have DotF, so I'd basically forgotten about the holy liberator. I'll have to take a look at them when I'm at my buddy's place later today, but I bet you're right, PoFs pretty much replace them straight away. As far as the term 'holy liberator' goes, I figure that becomes the name for the CG equivalent of a holy avenger sword... :) Later on, Ghorrin
ZebRaderJedi 02-21-04, 11:25 AM	Hey, Holy Liberator as the name for the "Holy Avenger" weapon for a PoF sound great! When you take a look at HL, check out it doesn't have remove disease, the "subversion" ability is pretty well in synch with your Break Enchanmtment by person idea. Game on, Zeb
Kaardomos 02-21-04, 12:08 PM	Originally posted by Ghorrin Yumpin' yiminy, I hadn't even thought of that angle! I suppose you can't lower your aura to receive a beneficial effect like you can with spell resisitance, eh? As long as you concider the aura to be a "special resistance to magic", you can voluntarily be effected. 3.5 PHB pg 177: Even a character with a special resistance to magic(Such as an elf's resistance to sleep effects) can suppress this quality.
Alaina 02-23-04, 12:42 AM	page 58 gives another option for your "backup guy" with a substitution for remove disease/other defensive powers i think the Paladin of Tyranny looks like a dude with BMF on his wallet.
flyingmoose 02-23-04, 01:54 AM	Say, whaddya call the standard paladin now (assuming you allow the other three)? Paladin of Tyranny, Paladin of Slaughter, Paladin of Freedom... Paladin of Justice? Paladin of Righteousness? Somebody help me out here.
Fiendish Dire Weasel 02-23-04, 02:20 AM	UA says "Paladin of Honor", though "Paladin of Justice" doesn't sound to bad either.
RoastSlinky 02-23-04, 03:46 AM	Paladin of Justice would be better for my LN Fighter/Cleric of St. Cuthbert......
caeruleus 02-23-04, 10:01 AM	Check out Dragon issue #310, which had paladins of different alignments. If I recall correctly, the chaotic good version (called an Avenger) had break enchantment instead of remove disease. I don't remember if it was able to use it the same number of times per week that the standard paladin used remove disease, or whether it slowed down the progression. Another thing I liked about the version in Dragon is that it had an aura of chaos, detect law, and smite law, rather than aura of good, detect evil, and smite evil. Draco Caeruleus
Fiendish Dire Weasel 02-23-04, 01:58 PM	Paladin of Justice would be better for my LN Fighter/Cleric of St. Cuthbert...... I disagree personally. I always have seen "Justice" being LG, not LN. LN is order/law, which as we see in real life, law often has nothing to do with justice. Another thing I liked about the version in Dragon is that it had an aura of chaos, detect law, and smite law, rather than aura of good, detect evil, and smite evil. Personally, I'd rather have smite evil than smite law, which is better for a CG Paladin though, I'm not sure. Considering the LG Paladin doesn't have smite chaos, the CG Paladin having smite evil makes sense.