Post/Author/DateTime	Post
StrahdVonZarovich 11-08-04, 12:43 PM	Ok, straigh on topic for today, how does the system for bloodline lvls works exactly ? If I did, understand it well enough, with my crapy english skills, you have to sacrifice a ''lvl-up'' to gain the benefits from a bloodline lvl ? If that is so, then I have to say(IMHO) thats its the biggest waste of experience points that I have ever seen. UA have some good things like the ''LA gradual destroying system'' and the variants but bloodline lvls ? Hummft... Also what do you guys thinks about the alternate XP system given at the end of the book ? I say its great, 'cause IMHO, gettin' about 190 000 Xp points and going to lvl-20 is freakin' easy in 3.0 and in 3.5. Back to 'ol 2e edition XP system !
Morwen 11-08-04, 12:47 PM	The Bloodline system gives you certain benefits, but in return for those benefits you must take "Bloodline levels" every now and then. For a major bloodline, you must take 1 level of Bloodline before or upon reaching character level 3 (So, at level 3 you would be a Cleric2/Bloodline1 for instance). You must have taken 2 levels of Bloodline before or upon reaching level 6, and 3 levels before or upon reaching level 12 (The aforementioned Cleric would then be a Cleric9/Bloodline3).
StrahdVonZarovich 11-08-04, 12:51 PM	Humm thats what I though...it confirms my thoughs on this matter...that thing is a big waste of XP, well of course thats still only my opinion. Feel free to like it or not(the bloodline system).
Fixxxer 11-08-04, 06:26 PM	Humm thats what I though...it confirms my thoughs on this matter...that thing is a big waste of XP, well of course thats still only my opinion. Feel free to like it or not(the bloodline system). I don't really see why it's such a big waste of XP. I mean, when you level up, you basically get a number of benefits based on the idea that you've learned and grown from your experiences. When you take a bloodline level instead, you basically get a number of benefits based on the idea that you've learned and grown from your experiences. I'm not seeing much of a difference.
Ranger REG 11-08-04, 07:39 PM	Humm thats what I though...it confirms my thoughs on this matter...that thing is a big waste of XP, well of course thats still only my opinion. Feel free to like it or not(the bloodline system). Well, it is a payoff for those bloodline abilities you gained by character level, which is scattered, not like the feature you gain only by acquiring class level.
algritz 11-09-04, 10:25 AM	Well in a very high-powered game I DMed, I allowed gestalt character to take a bloodline. This resulted in very potent character as the bloodline ended in costing nearly nothing.
StrahdVonZarovich 11-09-04, 12:12 PM	Well in a very high-powered game I DMed, I allowed gestalt character to take a bloodline. This resulted in very potent character as the bloodline ended in costing nearly nothing. Gestalt AND Bloodline lvls, Jesus that just sound crazy...well in my humble opinion of course.
Kadasbrass 11-12-04, 01:10 AM	The best way to understand bloodlines levels is that they act as level adjestment. In fact thats what they are, instead of starting with a 1 2 or 3 level adjestment, it appears in the form of a class that you have to take every so often or take a expirence penalty (You can't force someone to take a level in something, you can however tell them its in their best interest though to do so). Thats why the bloodline clase offers no hit dice, saves, or BAB or spell increase. I don't normally DM, but did few weeks back, since was only two at first, I allowed them to try a gestal. What I did is said that you start by picking any two classes, you are 'creating' a new class, if you multiclass from this class you can only do a single class in any new classes, but may freely level in your new Hybred Gestalt class. Of course I made agreement with them, that if they both agreed to be Kobolds I would allow them to do something different (Wasn't going to tell them about Gestalts unless they agreed to be kobolds), and then 'made' two others that came over to do the same. Personaly I don't aprove of gestalts, only would consider them again if single player game, or if there was two and no chance of anyone else coming over, and even then I might place a even greater limit (or meets my aproval).
eggplantm 11-12-04, 02:19 PM	Also what do you guys thinks about the alternate XP system given at the end of the book ? I say its great, 'cause IMHO, gettin' about 190 000 Xp points and going to lvl-20 is freakin' easy in 3.0 and in 3.5. Back to 'ol 2e edition XP system ! I've used the alternate xp system in the back of that book for a while now and I really like it. There is only one drawback in that characters who have fallen behind in levels because of being raised or if they just started out at a lower level will never catch up to the same level as the other characters.
DM Zoc 11-12-04, 05:29 PM	Blood-line levels are ridiculously over-powered if you know what you're doing. The key is in the increased user-level for class based skills (add blood-line levels to all of your classes for determining features that are based on class-level); this adds to your level for a lot of things, like caster level, but it can also be used to circumvent many other things. Here are a few examples, many of which are open to interpretation: Monk unarmed damage (arguably, an ability gained at first level that improves with Monk levels). Intelligence bonus to AC (as granted by Duelist, Bladesinger, and Invisible Blade) normally has a maximum limit equal to your level; this lets you have 13 or more levels in a class for these purposes. Alternatively, a Duelist 1/ Bladesinger 1 with 4 blood-line levels can have +10 to AC (from +5 Intelligence). Rogue Sneak Attack damage (arguably, an ability gained at first level which improves with rogue level.) Undeniably, sneak attack damage from multiple sources stacks: if you can find two core classes which provide sneak attack then multi-classing one level in each and then taking two blood-line levels will give you +4d6 sneak damage. In the extreme, finding ten classes which provide sneak attack damage and taking ten blood-line levels will grant you sneak attack damage of +60d6 (as though you were level 11 in ten different classes). Assassin Death Attack increases with your level. Also to keep in mind is that the Assassin class only has skill ranks as a pre-requisite; you don't need BAB or any such level-dependent thing. You could conceivably take one level in Rogue (max out Disguise, put four ranks in Hide and Move Silently) then take three blood-line levels, then take one level in another class (assume there's a Ninja class that offers sneak attack and has Hide/Move as class skills), and then get directly in Assassin at level 5, at which point you would have +6d6 sneak attack (see above) but also a DC (14+Int mod) Death Attack. Undead limits. As previously stated, blood-line levels increase caster level. A multi-class Cleric5/Wizard7 would normally be able to control 48 HD of undead (20 from Cleric, and 28 from Wizard). Adding in 8 blood-line levels would increase this to 52 from Cleric and 60 from Wizard, for a total of 112. Note that it is a better alternative to take levels in Mystic Theurge, in most cases, if your DM is using the optional rule on Prestige Classes.
JohnSnow 11-12-04, 05:52 PM	Personally, I think Bloodlines work better if you simply give every character a bloodline of a certain level. This powers characters up a little. The bloodlines in Unearthed Arcana are actually quite modest compared to some systems I've seen. Fantasy Flight's Midnight has a system of Heroic Paths which make even Major bloodlines look weak. Of course, in Midnight, the Heroic Paths offset lower levels of PC magic items. The whole idea can be broken down to "Personal power" over "Gadget power." I'm thinking about using a variant rules set to up-power PCs directly, rather than just turning them into walking collections of magical equipment.
StrahdVonZarovich 11-12-04, 06:52 PM	Well, so far, the Bloodline system seem either very liked or very disliked...its 50/50 as they say. But please keep on, with your arguments guys, I'm curious to see more of 'em.
pentagonal_penguin 11-13-04, 06:49 AM	(You can't force someone to take a level in something, you can however tell them its in their best interest though to do so). Random pickiness for today: There is an artifact in Draconomicon that is like the book of Exalted Deeds for sorcerers, ie they get enough exp to level up, but must take this level in sorcerer.
Ranger REG 11-13-04, 09:57 PM	Well, so far, the Bloodline system seem either very liked or very disliked...its 50/50 as they say. But please keep on, with your arguments guys, I'm curious to see more of 'em. Well, to be honest, I haven't made up my mind to like or dislike it. My earlier experience with Bloodline is the version developed for Birthright.
StrahdVonZarovich 11-13-04, 11:19 PM	Birthright, and what exactly is birthright ?
Kadasbrass 11-14-04, 06:27 PM	Random pickiness for today: There is an artifact in Draconomicon that is like the book of Exalted Deeds for sorcerers, ie they get enough exp to level up, but must take this level in sorcerer. Only if their a Sorcerer to begin with, and its not 'easy' to force someone to read it. So if they decide to read the book and are forced to level in sorcerer again they are a victim of their own actions. The only thing I did was give them the ability to aquire an Book.
Ranger REG 11-15-04, 02:51 AM	Birthright, and what exactly is birthright ? Not Birthright, Birthright. A campaign setting published by TSR that also introduced a dominion managment rule system. IOW, you can play a baron or a lord at 1st-level and be involved in diplomacy and politics. A pen-n-paper version of Age of Empire. The setting also introduced deity-based bloodline as a sort of "divine right of kings."
StrahdVonZarovich 11-16-04, 12:45 AM	Hum interesting game, is it still available ?
Ranger REG 11-16-04, 03:22 AM	Hum interesting game, is it still available ? Check eBay. Or Birthright.net website.
Ualaa 11-16-04, 05:18 AM	Birthright was my favorite 2nd edition setting. It is a combination of a standard campaign setting with a very unique flavor and politics, as in each character runs a domain or organization or perhaps a kingdom, and attempts to advance it, while NPC's and possibly other players compete for the same limited resources. The setting is low magic, in the sense that there are possibly a dozen or so wizards who have reached 16th or higher level in recorded history. Thousands of years ago, the old gods had a war. Basically this culminated in a great battle where all the gods died. Their top followers inherited a large portion of their divine essence becoming powers in and of themselves. Those families whose ancestors were present at the battle obsorbed a portion of this divine energy. Their descendents have received this power as a bloodline. Through killing others with bloodlines, your bloodline can be improved. Each bloodline is given a numerical rating from 1 to 100. The higher your rating, the greater your chance for powers to be present. Some powers are common throughout various bloodlines, while others are only available to specific bloodlines. The abilities were divided into Minor, Major and Great powers. The focus of the game was not improving the bloodlines, but that was an aspect of the game. Creatures known as Awnsheighlien who had absorbed Azrai's bloodline mutated into animal/human hybrids of great power, who were motivated by little else beyond improving their bloodlines and expanding their territories. The setting was great both as a setting and as a wargaming activity, with the possiblity of using both aspects for great variety.
StrahdVonZarovich 11-16-04, 12:27 PM	Well, thank you very much for the infos you two. I'll look at these links, this looks very interesting to say the least.