Unearthed Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Unearthed Psionics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DarkJediReborn
05-18-05, 03:51 PM I'm not sure if this is the right board or not, but the discussion should fall in this area.
Anyway, what I'd like to know is, has anyone used the variants in UA to think up variant psionic classes? Or power systems? I'm putting together a no-magic-all-psionics campaign and could really use some ideas to expand the normal psionic classes. Thanks in advance.
BTW, I may not check back for a couple of days, so no hurry or anything.
Dr_Draco
05-18-05, 06:30 PM Here's some ideas:

Make the Soulknife and Psychic Warrior PrCs.

A Variant Soulknife. For example:

Monastic Soulknife
Remove Psychic Strike
Remove Speed of Thought
Remove Mind Blade Enhancement
Add Monk's Speed Bonus
Add a Flurry of Blows ability that works when using the mindblade
Add an ability similar to the monk's Ki Strike

Take some PrCs and make them base classes. Sangehirn is a good choice.

Add a variant Psionic Combat system like the one in my sig (no, it is nothing like 3.0 psionic combat).

Make a generic Psychic class and add some of the Psychic Warrior and Soulknife abilities to the generic Warrior.
Voila!
05-20-05, 10:08 PM I have questioned this as well: Psionic Specialization (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6147991#post6147991).

If you want variant psionic classes, Szatany has come up with a great wealth of information detailing possibilities:
Ultimate Psycker (psychic warrior) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=337972)
Ultimate Mentalist (soulknife) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=369376)
Ultimate Wilder (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=385484)
Crunchy Frog
05-21-05, 11:18 AM There used to be a series of articles on wizards.com called "The Mind's Eye." It had interesting psionic stuff, including a psionic version of the rogue and monk. The whole run is available in two .pdf files (one for 3.0, one for 3.5) here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20041029a).
DarkJediReborn
05-22-05, 12:27 PM Thanks to all who replied.
Over the weekend, I tried to come up with an Oriental-feel class based on the psion and the Wu Jen from OA and CA. Rather than post the whole thing, I'll give what has changed from the base psion (all other abilities are as the psion):
The Yogi: The ultimate pinnacle of the merging of mind and body, the Yogi studies his mind and body to find the best way for them to combine in an unstoppable force.
Alignment: The Yogi cannot be chaotic since some measure of discipline is required for the Yogi's path.
Weapons: All simple.
Skills: All as Egoist.
Discipline: Must be psychometabolism. The Yogi cannot select powers from other disclipline lists except with Expanded Knowledge.
Sudden Sense: Once per day, a 1st level Yogi can reroll initiative before the order is determined. He takes the better of the two rolls.
Develop Power: At third level and every three levels thereafter, the Yogi selects one power he knows and modifies it by one of the following feats: Burrowing Power, Enlarge Power, Expand Power, or Maximize Power. The point cost does not change, more than one of these feats can be added to a power, and it does not require the Yogi to expend his psionic focus.
Taboos: As Wu Jen, but terminates the Yogi's powers for that day.

What do you think? I was considering replacing some of the Develop Powers with something like Timeless Body or Diamond Soul, but wasn't sure where to put those abilities.
Trask
05-22-05, 01:40 PM Allowing a class to Maximize every use of a power without raising the pp cost of it on every manifestation is positively broken. :)
DarkJediReborn
05-23-05, 09:18 AM Given. I'll remove Max Power from the options. It was just that seeing the selection for Wu Jen, each metamagic feat would raise the level by at most one, so I was looking for metapsi feats that raised the cost by at most two. I don't know what I was thinking when I posted.

Anyway, I decided to remove the Level 6 ability to replace it with Purity of Body, the level 12 ability with Diamond Body, and the level 18 ability with Timeless Body. This is to fit in with the concept of the Yogi's connection with his/her body and to eliminate some of the shameless copying of the Wu Jen.

Is it better? worse? Any comments?
DarkJediReborn
05-26-05, 12:20 PM Three days, no replies? C'mon, NOW it's getting urgent that the ideas start flowing.
:help: :help: :help:
DarkJediReborn
05-27-05, 09:44 AM Here's an idea that I had posted at another time to make a form of recharging psionic points.

Rather than prevent one from manifesting powers of that level, I decided to have the points themselves recharge at a set rate equal to half your total manifester level rounded down (except in the case of level 1; see below).

In this manner, however, level 1 psions seem to get the shaft at a recharge rate of 0 per round. I did not, however, want the psion to have the same recharge rate as a second level psion, so every other round after the psion finished manifesting, a 1st level psion recharges one point.

For all psions, points begin recharging one round after they have finished manifesting to ensure that a psion does not have a virtually unlimited amount of points that recharge every time he manifests.

How does it look?
DarkJediReborn
05-31-05, 08:48 AM No one loves me. Sigh... :weep:

Anyway, I have here a class that is as yet unnamed, but it is supposed to be more wizardly than the psion. I made this class to represent all those psions who know more than their fellows but aren't quite as good manifesters. Also, since I have never used the code block and am unsure of what I'm doing, I'll just post it all by description and not in a table.
BAB: As psion (1/2 level)
Good Saves: Will
Skills: Concentration, Craft, Knowledge(all), Profession, Psicraft.
Skill Pts: 2+Int mod (*4 at 1st level)
Power Point Progression: As the Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana's Spell
Point system.
Powers Known: Unlimited, based on Intelligence. First level characters know two plus their Intelligence modifier powers at first level. It takes longer than normal to manifest these powers, however - free, immediate, and swift powers take up a standard action, and move or standard action powers require a full-round action. Powers that already take up a full round action require no extra time. Cannot use Quicken Power on these powers. The maximum level for powers is as a psion.
Powers Mastered: One per level. These powers take the normal amount of time to manifest. Quicken Power can be used on these Powers Mastered.
Bonus Feats: At 1st, 5th, and every five levels thereafter. Can select only from the Item Creation or Metapsionic feat lists, or the Power Mastery feat.

Power Mastery [General]
You have gained more control over your psychic powers
Prereq: Manifester level 3rd.
Benefit: You can designate one of your powers known as a Mastered power. This allows you to use that power without it having a longer manifesting time. This feat can be taken multiple times, each time applying to another power.

Alright, so who likes it or would change it or will get back to me please? :D
Ra-Tiel
06-01-05, 07:11 AM Hi.

===

@DarkJediReborn:
No one loves me. Sigh... :weep:
Perhaps nobody loves dark jedis? ;) :P

---

Anyways, I'll add my two cents to your ideas (in no particular order).

---

(1) Recharging PPs
Well, I personally have tried to come up with a balanced method to implement a way for the spellpoint based casting to recharge their spellpoints reserves (it was for a WLD campaign), and I've failed. There is no balanced way known to me that you could walk that wouldn't throw balance out of the window. The point is, casters are (at least to a certain degree) balanced with the fact that they cannot run around throwing spells the whole day. For psionics the same is true. A psion who could throw his powers unchecked the whole day would more likely sooner than later break your game and make it less fun for the other players.

---

(2)Recharge Psionics
A similar problem creeps up here, but from a mechanics point of view. Recharge magic is based on the time it takes to recharge spellslots of a specific level, but psionics don't have spellslots of a fixed level. A psion who augments a crystal shard to 7pps is - effectively - spending as much resources as a wizard casting a level 4 spell. So your problem is: how do you determine the effective level, and thereby the time it takes to recharge, with the psionic system? Because if you based it on the pp cost it would normally have, you run into the following problems:

You need recharge times for powers of up to level 13, because a wilder could wild surge for an effective ML of 26 at level 20. How do you measure this?
and
You don't really hinder a psionic character. In the first round, he could manifest an energy ray with 20pps, the next round with 18pps, the next round with 16pps, the next round with 14pps, and by now his "20pps-slot" should be recharged.

If you base the recharge on power level, or even on each individual power, you severely hinder manifesting characters. Especially wilders get the shaft, as they simply cannot afford to know that many offensive powers. Additionally, there are many spells that have specific recharge rates; how would you judge what powers have specific recharge rates?

In my opinion, psionics are not just magic with a different mechanic, but something really different. So, it is not possible - or even a good idea at all - to try to convert everything that's possible for magic to psionics. The dreaded "Psionic X" syndrom, as it was named...

---

(3)Int-based custom class
Perhaps you should take a look at the Erudite, from a Dragon magazine some time back. It's very similar to a "psionic wizard", and the guys in the Psionics forum have even done some tweaks to it to make it streamlined like the rest of v3.5 psionics. Perhaps you should just ask in that board about it, I'm sure somebody has the old thread subscribed or bookmarked.

---

(4)The Mind's Eye
Somebody mentioned this retired web article, and it's really good, but some things haven't been revised for v3.5 before the article got closed. But IIRC, somewhere on the web there's a fan made site that continues the Mind's Eye. AFAIK, it's called "The Third Eye". Perhaps ask around in the psionics board or try metacrawler or google to find it.

---

(5)Oriental style custom class
Also a bit back, Dragon magazine had an issue about psionics in an oriental setting. I'm sorry that I can't give you the specific issue numbers, but I'm not at home right now so I can't access my "draconic library" in these moments. IIRC, it was for v3.0 psionics, but it should be easily converted to v3.5, because it was just about combat styles, a bit philosophy, and so on. But I might be wrong on this, because it's been a long time since I've read that issue.

---

I hope that my comments at least gave you something to work with, and helped you a bit.

===

Greetings,
_Ra-Tiel.
DarkJediReborn
06-03-05, 10:24 AM Ra-Tiel: Found the Third Eye website and incorporated the variant Psionic Combat system. I didn't, however, search for the Dragon issues with Oriental psionics or the Erudite yet, but I will be soon.

As for recharging power points, I agree that basically unlimited powers per day is unbalanced. That idea stemmed from the Jedi Knights games where your Force power recharged after so many seconds and I wanted to incorporate that into the campaign (I know the Force isn't straight-up psionics, so no one blast me for that statement).

As for no one loving Dark Jedis, well, I guess that's true also. ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkJediReborn 05-18-05, 03:51 PM	I'm not sure if this is the right board or not, but the discussion should fall in this area. Anyway, what I'd like to know is, has anyone used the variants in UA to think up variant psionic classes? Or power systems? I'm putting together a no-magic-all-psionics campaign and could really use some ideas to expand the normal psionic classes. Thanks in advance. BTW, I may not check back for a couple of days, so no hurry or anything.
Dr_Draco 05-18-05, 06:30 PM	Here's some ideas: Make the Soulknife and Psychic Warrior PrCs. A Variant Soulknife. For example: Monastic Soulknife Remove Psychic Strike Remove Speed of Thought Remove Mind Blade Enhancement Add Monk's Speed Bonus Add a Flurry of Blows ability that works when using the mindblade Add an ability similar to the monk's Ki Strike Take some PrCs and make them base classes. Sangehirn is a good choice. Add a variant Psionic Combat system like the one in my sig (no, it is nothing like 3.0 psionic combat). Make a generic Psychic class and add some of the Psychic Warrior and Soulknife abilities to the generic Warrior.
Voila! 05-20-05, 10:08 PM	I have questioned this as well: Psionic Specialization (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=6147991#post6147991). If you want variant psionic classes, Szatany has come up with a great wealth of information detailing possibilities: Ultimate Psycker (psychic warrior) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=337972) Ultimate Mentalist (soulknife) (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=369376) Ultimate Wilder (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=385484)
Crunchy Frog 05-21-05, 11:18 AM	There used to be a series of articles on wizards.com called "The Mind's Eye." It had interesting psionic stuff, including a psionic version of the rogue and monk. The whole run is available in two .pdf files (one for 3.0, one for 3.5) here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20041029a).
DarkJediReborn 05-22-05, 12:27 PM	Thanks to all who replied. Over the weekend, I tried to come up with an Oriental-feel class based on the psion and the Wu Jen from OA and CA. Rather than post the whole thing, I'll give what has changed from the base psion (all other abilities are as the psion): The Yogi: The ultimate pinnacle of the merging of mind and body, the Yogi studies his mind and body to find the best way for them to combine in an unstoppable force. Alignment: The Yogi cannot be chaotic since some measure of discipline is required for the Yogi's path. Weapons: All simple. Skills: All as Egoist. Discipline: Must be psychometabolism. The Yogi cannot select powers from other disclipline lists except with Expanded Knowledge. Sudden Sense: Once per day, a 1st level Yogi can reroll initiative before the order is determined. He takes the better of the two rolls. Develop Power: At third level and every three levels thereafter, the Yogi selects one power he knows and modifies it by one of the following feats: Burrowing Power, Enlarge Power, Expand Power, or Maximize Power. The point cost does not change, more than one of these feats can be added to a power, and it does not require the Yogi to expend his psionic focus. Taboos: As Wu Jen, but terminates the Yogi's powers for that day. What do you think? I was considering replacing some of the Develop Powers with something like Timeless Body or Diamond Soul, but wasn't sure where to put those abilities.
Trask 05-22-05, 01:40 PM	Allowing a class to Maximize every use of a power without raising the pp cost of it on every manifestation is positively broken. :)
DarkJediReborn 05-23-05, 09:18 AM	Given. I'll remove Max Power from the options. It was just that seeing the selection for Wu Jen, each metamagic feat would raise the level by at most one, so I was looking for metapsi feats that raised the cost by at most two. I don't know what I was thinking when I posted. Anyway, I decided to remove the Level 6 ability to replace it with Purity of Body, the level 12 ability with Diamond Body, and the level 18 ability with Timeless Body. This is to fit in with the concept of the Yogi's connection with his/her body and to eliminate some of the shameless copying of the Wu Jen. Is it better? worse? Any comments?
DarkJediReborn 05-26-05, 12:20 PM	Three days, no replies? C'mon, NOW it's getting urgent that the ideas start flowing. :help: :help: :help:
DarkJediReborn 05-27-05, 09:44 AM	Here's an idea that I had posted at another time to make a form of recharging psionic points. Rather than prevent one from manifesting powers of that level, I decided to have the points themselves recharge at a set rate equal to half your total manifester level rounded down (except in the case of level 1; see below). In this manner, however, level 1 psions seem to get the shaft at a recharge rate of 0 per round. I did not, however, want the psion to have the same recharge rate as a second level psion, so every other round after the psion finished manifesting, a 1st level psion recharges one point. For all psions, points begin recharging one round after they have finished manifesting to ensure that a psion does not have a virtually unlimited amount of points that recharge every time he manifests. How does it look?
DarkJediReborn 05-31-05, 08:48 AM	No one loves me. Sigh... :weep: Anyway, I have here a class that is as yet unnamed, but it is supposed to be more wizardly than the psion. I made this class to represent all those psions who know more than their fellows but aren't quite as good manifesters. Also, since I have never used the code block and am unsure of what I'm doing, I'll just post it all by description and not in a table. BAB: As psion (1/2 level) Good Saves: Will Skills: Concentration, Craft, Knowledge(all), Profession, Psicraft. Skill Pts: 2+Int mod (*4 at 1st level) Power Point Progression: As the Sorcerer from Unearthed Arcana's Spell Point system. Powers Known: Unlimited, based on Intelligence. First level characters know two plus their Intelligence modifier powers at first level. It takes longer than normal to manifest these powers, however - free, immediate, and swift powers take up a standard action, and move or standard action powers require a full-round action. Powers that already take up a full round action require no extra time. Cannot use Quicken Power on these powers. The maximum level for powers is as a psion. Powers Mastered: One per level. These powers take the normal amount of time to manifest. Quicken Power can be used on these Powers Mastered. Bonus Feats: At 1st, 5th, and every five levels thereafter. Can select only from the Item Creation or Metapsionic feat lists, or the Power Mastery feat. Power Mastery [General] You have gained more control over your psychic powers Prereq: Manifester level 3rd. Benefit: You can designate one of your powers known as a Mastered power. This allows you to use that power without it having a longer manifesting time. This feat can be taken multiple times, each time applying to another power. Alright, so who likes it or would change it or will get back to me please? :D
Ra-Tiel 06-01-05, 07:11 AM	Hi. === @DarkJediReborn: No one loves me. Sigh... :weep: Perhaps nobody loves dark jedis? ;) :P --- Anyways, I'll add my two cents to your ideas (in no particular order). --- (1) Recharging PPs Well, I personally have tried to come up with a balanced method to implement a way for the spellpoint based casting to recharge their spellpoints reserves (it was for a WLD campaign), and I've failed. There is no balanced way known to me that you could walk that wouldn't throw balance out of the window. The point is, casters are (at least to a certain degree) balanced with the fact that they cannot run around throwing spells the whole day. For psionics the same is true. A psion who could throw his powers unchecked the whole day would more likely sooner than later break your game and make it less fun for the other players. --- (2)Recharge Psionics A similar problem creeps up here, but from a mechanics point of view. Recharge magic is based on the time it takes to recharge spellslots of a specific level, but psionics don't have spellslots of a fixed level. A psion who augments a crystal shard to 7pps is - effectively - spending as much resources as a wizard casting a level 4 spell. So your problem is: how do you determine the effective level, and thereby the time it takes to recharge, with the psionic system? Because if you based it on the pp cost it would normally have, you run into the following problems: You need recharge times for powers of up to level 13, because a wilder could wild surge for an effective ML of 26 at level 20. How do you measure this? and You don't really hinder a psionic character. In the first round, he could manifest an energy ray with 20pps, the next round with 18pps, the next round with 16pps, the next round with 14pps, and by now his "20pps-slot" should be recharged. If you base the recharge on power level, or even on each individual power, you severely hinder manifesting characters. Especially wilders get the shaft, as they simply cannot afford to know that many offensive powers. Additionally, there are many spells that have specific recharge rates; how would you judge what powers have specific recharge rates? In my opinion, psionics are not just magic with a different mechanic, but something really different. So, it is not possible - or even a good idea at all - to try to convert everything that's possible for magic to psionics. The dreaded "Psionic X" syndrom, as it was named... --- (3)Int-based custom class Perhaps you should take a look at the Erudite, from a Dragon magazine some time back. It's very similar to a "psionic wizard", and the guys in the Psionics forum have even done some tweaks to it to make it streamlined like the rest of v3.5 psionics. Perhaps you should just ask in that board about it, I'm sure somebody has the old thread subscribed or bookmarked. --- (4)The Mind's Eye Somebody mentioned this retired web article, and it's really good, but some things haven't been revised for v3.5 before the article got closed. But IIRC, somewhere on the web there's a fan made site that continues the Mind's Eye. AFAIK, it's called "The Third Eye". Perhaps ask around in the psionics board or try metacrawler or google to find it. --- (5)Oriental style custom class Also a bit back, Dragon magazine had an issue about psionics in an oriental setting. I'm sorry that I can't give you the specific issue numbers, but I'm not at home right now so I can't access my "draconic library" in these moments. IIRC, it was for v3.0 psionics, but it should be easily converted to v3.5, because it was just about combat styles, a bit philosophy, and so on. But I might be wrong on this, because it's been a long time since I've read that issue. --- I hope that my comments at least gave you something to work with, and helped you a bit. === Greetings, _Ra-Tiel.
DarkJediReborn 06-03-05, 10:24 AM	Ra-Tiel: Found the Third Eye website and incorporated the variant Psionic Combat system. I didn't, however, search for the Dragon issues with Oriental psionics or the Erudite yet, but I will be soon. As for recharging power points, I agree that basically unlimited powers per day is unbalanced. That idea stemmed from the Jedi Knights games where your Force power recharged after so many seconds and I wanted to incorporate that into the campaign (I know the Force isn't straight-up psionics, so no one blast me for that statement). As for no one loving Dark Jedis, well, I guess that's true also. ;)