Unescapable Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Unescapable Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dragonman407
03-05-06, 01:57 AM I was thinking about how in some fantasy worlds, magic is very powerfull and does what it is meant to do no matter what. So I decided to try to find a way to bring a system like this into D&D. I have not found a sure way to balance out this huge increase in power of spellcasters, but I have come up with a few ideas.

I am mostly basing this idea off of the books Eragon and Eldest. One thing I thought I could do was to use spell points along with a magic using energy variant. spell points would be kept secret from the players and so would the scores for any saves the opponents make. Reflex saves still do as they should in order to avoid spells that allow reflex saves, but spells that only allow fortitude or will saves can not be escaped. Instead, the target still rolls their save and the result is subtracted from your spell point pool, along with the points used by the spell itself. If a character's spell points run all the way out, they switch to taking non-lethal damage. If your non-lethal damage is maxed (hp taken down to 0) and you have no spell points left, you fall unconscious, but if you use enough points to take you down to -10, you die. If a targets save is enough to drain the caster of all of his sp and makes him/her fall unconscious or die, the spell fails and the target escapes unscathed. This system ensures that characters will be cautious with the magic they have because they have no indication of how much sp they have left, except for how tired they are, and beacause they do not know if what the target will roll on his save is enough to kill him or nock him out.

I'm not sure if this idea totally balances out the results of the magic, but in any case, you would need to be very cautious about what kind of enemies you throw at the party and you would have to greatly increase the cost of any "death" and "resurection" spells, or completely remove them.

Questions? Coments? Ideas?
Lina_Inverse
03-05-06, 03:09 AM The player casts the inescapable death spell at the supreme god.
The mage casts an enslavement spell upon the PCs, thus makeing any form of domination inate railroading.
The gm uses an instant death spell on a pc, thus forceing the pc to die with no chance to save himself(more railroading!)

A GM has no right to railroad. Therefore such a system violates the gms dutys.
dragonman407
03-05-06, 12:57 PM there would obviously be some changes to keep these things from happening. You can completely remove death spells and make sure that enemies do not have any spells that do things like what you are talking about. Also, the amount of sp would probably lessen, and if a mage tried to cast a spell on the entire party, he would be drained of sp from all of the pcs' saves and probably die. I'm trying to create a system that will fit in a setting like that from the Eragon and Eldest series.
Delfedd
03-05-06, 01:11 PM First, use the magic points system from UU, but then change it so that when the character looses half their MP they get fatigued or something. if it reaches -1 they are unconcious, And if the MP reaches -10, they die.

I would also suggest incorperating the Truename magic, although we haven't seen it yet.

Have healing spells affect MP as well as HP.
You can never cast a spell which is either a) higher level than the normal spell level, and b) higher than your HP.

Oh, and for sorcerers/shades I would rule that they can use magic of a higher level than their own, but doing so costs more MP, as well as opens them up to spirits, making them become warlocks, trading their sorcerer levels for Warlock, gaining +4 Strength, +2 constitution,

Battle sorcerers should be a big part of the classes.
Lina_Inverse
03-06-06, 03:01 PM there would obviously be some changes to keep these things from happening. You can completely remove death spells and make sure that enemies do not have any spells that do things like what you are talking about. Also, the amount of sp would probably lessen, and if a mage tried to cast a spell on the entire party, he would be drained of sp from all of the pcs' saves and probably die. I'm trying to create a system that will fit in a setting like that from the Eragon and Eldest series.

Charm, polymorph etc. Any form of binary effect spell would be broken under such a system. Many of which are staples of any magical concept. Even debuffs could easily become game breakingly power under such a system.

Saveing throws exist for a reason.
Lucan_Desmond
03-07-06, 11:21 PM I'm a huge fan of Eragon and Eldest and I would love to see a roleplaying system based on that world. But you also have to realize that Lina_Inverse is right too, remember that in Eragon and Eldest that mages were gods on the battlefield. With a simple thought they could kill thousands, to incorperate this system you would have to also put a lot of thought into how the mages could defend themselves and their companions (as many as a small army) against such powerful magic. At this point it becomes a battle of the minds very similar to psychic combat. The magic system you're trying to create would meld magic and psionics. I'm not very versed in psionics so I won't venture any attempts at creating rules for such a system, but I suggest you study both the rules for magic and psionics before moving forward with this system. When you have a better idea as to how this might work I would love to hear all you've come up with!

Good luck and happy gaming!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dragonman407 03-05-06, 01:57 AM	I was thinking about how in some fantasy worlds, magic is very powerfull and does what it is meant to do no matter what. So I decided to try to find a way to bring a system like this into D&D. I have not found a sure way to balance out this huge increase in power of spellcasters, but I have come up with a few ideas. I am mostly basing this idea off of the books Eragon and Eldest. One thing I thought I could do was to use spell points along with a magic using energy variant. spell points would be kept secret from the players and so would the scores for any saves the opponents make. Reflex saves still do as they should in order to avoid spells that allow reflex saves, but spells that only allow fortitude or will saves can not be escaped. Instead, the target still rolls their save and the result is subtracted from your spell point pool, along with the points used by the spell itself. If a character's spell points run all the way out, they switch to taking non-lethal damage. If your non-lethal damage is maxed (hp taken down to 0) and you have no spell points left, you fall unconscious, but if you use enough points to take you down to -10, you die. If a targets save is enough to drain the caster of all of his sp and makes him/her fall unconscious or die, the spell fails and the target escapes unscathed. This system ensures that characters will be cautious with the magic they have because they have no indication of how much sp they have left, except for how tired they are, and beacause they do not know if what the target will roll on his save is enough to kill him or nock him out. I'm not sure if this idea totally balances out the results of the magic, but in any case, you would need to be very cautious about what kind of enemies you throw at the party and you would have to greatly increase the cost of any "death" and "resurection" spells, or completely remove them. Questions? Coments? Ideas?
Lina_Inverse 03-05-06, 03:09 AM	The player casts the inescapable death spell at the supreme god. The mage casts an enslavement spell upon the PCs, thus makeing any form of domination inate railroading. The gm uses an instant death spell on a pc, thus forceing the pc to die with no chance to save himself(more railroading!) A GM has no right to railroad. Therefore such a system violates the gms dutys.
dragonman407 03-05-06, 12:57 PM	there would obviously be some changes to keep these things from happening. You can completely remove death spells and make sure that enemies do not have any spells that do things like what you are talking about. Also, the amount of sp would probably lessen, and if a mage tried to cast a spell on the entire party, he would be drained of sp from all of the pcs' saves and probably die. I'm trying to create a system that will fit in a setting like that from the Eragon and Eldest series.
Delfedd 03-05-06, 01:11 PM	First, use the magic points system from UU, but then change it so that when the character looses half their MP they get fatigued or something. if it reaches -1 they are unconcious, And if the MP reaches -10, they die. I would also suggest incorperating the Truename magic, although we haven't seen it yet. Have healing spells affect MP as well as HP. You can never cast a spell which is either a) higher level than the normal spell level, and b) higher than your HP. Oh, and for sorcerers/shades I would rule that they can use magic of a higher level than their own, but doing so costs more MP, as well as opens them up to spirits, making them become warlocks, trading their sorcerer levels for Warlock, gaining +4 Strength, +2 constitution, Battle sorcerers should be a big part of the classes.
Lina_Inverse 03-06-06, 03:01 PM	there would obviously be some changes to keep these things from happening. You can completely remove death spells and make sure that enemies do not have any spells that do things like what you are talking about. Also, the amount of sp would probably lessen, and if a mage tried to cast a spell on the entire party, he would be drained of sp from all of the pcs' saves and probably die. I'm trying to create a system that will fit in a setting like that from the Eragon and Eldest series. Charm, polymorph etc. Any form of binary effect spell would be broken under such a system. Many of which are staples of any magical concept. Even debuffs could easily become game breakingly power under such a system. Saveing throws exist for a reason.
Lucan_Desmond 03-07-06, 11:21 PM	I'm a huge fan of Eragon and Eldest and I would love to see a roleplaying system based on that world. But you also have to realize that Lina_Inverse is right too, remember that in Eragon and Eldest that mages were gods on the battlefield. With a simple thought they could kill thousands, to incorperate this system you would have to also put a lot of thought into how the mages could defend themselves and their companions (as many as a small army) against such powerful magic. At this point it becomes a battle of the minds very similar to psychic combat. The magic system you're trying to create would meld magic and psionics. I'm not very versed in psionics so I won't venture any attempts at creating rules for such a system, but I suggest you study both the rules for magic and psionics before moving forward with this system. When you have a better idea as to how this might work I would love to hear all you've come up with! Good luck and happy gaming!