Unified Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Unified Magic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
anonymity
10-14-05, 01:35 AM Magic is a staple of the fantasy genre. Arguably, fantasy is defined by the presence of it. In D&D, there are several distinct ways to gain magical aptitude.

Wizard
Learning to cast spells as a wizard requires meticulous study and unusual Intelligence. Does this mean magic is simply a matter of learning gestures and incantations? Also, why can only a certain number of spells be cast per day?
Sorcerer/Bard
The innate magic of Sorcerers and Bards seems to be a talent. You either have it or you don't, and though force of personailty helps you use your talent, you will never cast a single sorcerer or bard spell not matter how hard you try or how high your Charisma unless you have "it". Does this mean magic is simply a random gift of genetics or fate?
Cleric/Paladin
Clerics and Paladins have thier own source of magic, religion. Does thier power stem from devoutness, or is it actually the power of thier god manfiested through the believer?
Druid/Ranger
Druids and Rangers have perhaps the strangest source of magical power; nature. One might argue druids are simply specialized clerics and rangers specialized paladins, but many don't, and so we have to consider yet another source of magic. What exactly is nature, and how does it give magic?
Psionics
I am sure many people will claim Psionics aren't magic. Fair enough, but this confuses the question of where does magic come from further. If Psions can manipulate reality in some way that is distinct from magic, where exactly does that power come from?

I could go on, about creatures who seemed to have evolved consistant methods of applying magic and about "nonmagical" fighters and rougues who achieve superhuman abilities at the higher levels, but my point is this.
I realize many people simply accept that there are numerous sources of magical aptitude and leave it at that, but I for one wish the game mechanics were such that magic is a single, unified force. Does anyone have any thoughts on having one source, one rationale, for magical power? Is there a way, by subtly altering mechanics or really good explaining, to have all the magical classes wield a single force without completely rewriting the classes and magic system?
I can't be the only one who has wondered about this.
jagggar
10-14-05, 01:41 AM The simplest method is to just say that there is one magical source for all. The reason people have different ways to cast and different spells is because of the way they learn to interact with it.
Cymraegmorgan
10-14-05, 02:46 AM Though I have done an awful lot of rewriting to classes and the magic system, my Campaign Settings rationale for the various sorts of character power is thus:
Divine Classes draw power from the Deisphere, that pattern of divine energy weaving its way through all the Created and Uncreated.

Culture Classes draw power from the Sorusphere, the sum total of cooperative energy, as well as the complimenting energies that surge through the Spheres.

Arcane Classes draw power from the Ecosphere, the five elements and the myriad combinations they make throughout Altvogge.

Psionic Classes draw their power from the Psychosphere, the some total of mental energy in the Spheres and Planes.

Utility Classes draw their power from within their individual essence directly from their own Egosphere.

My CS is linked in my sig, for more info.
syrinth
10-14-05, 12:04 PM I am so stealing that cymraeg lol.

You don't mind do ya?
Cymraegmorgan
10-14-05, 12:32 PM I am so stealing that cymraeg lol.

You don't mind do ya?

Not a bit. That is why on my CS website I put that on an OGL page. :D
00_Whupass
10-14-05, 02:33 PM Interestingly enough one of the projects I currently have eating away at my limited free time is the construction of a new campaign setting, and one of the fundamental conciets I set out for myself when writing the setting is to blur the lines on the distinct sources of magical power. In this setting, which is as of yet unnamed, I have laid out a few guidelines for magic:

1. All magic, both divine and arcane draws its power from extraplanar sources.
2. There are no living active deities
3. Magic cannot be "learned", it is fundamentally beyond human understanding.

These three factors have led to some interesting facets of the character classes. Since magic cannot be learned that means wizards, and anyone else who brings forth magical energies as a result of cloistered study, such as the Arcanist from the upcoming Heroes of Horror, would have to be fundamentally changed. Sorcerers, Bards and Favored Souls, are those who have been in some way fundamentally touched by planar energies, perhaps they were born in a place where the fabric that separates the planes has worn thin, or perhaps they have an Outsider in their ancestry. Clerics, Paladins, Warlocks and Hexblades all quite litterally barter with extraplanar entities, offering servitude, their own souls, or making sacrifices, in exchange for magical power. I've considered allowing wizards, spell thieves, warmages and other classes who traditionally gained magic through study to instead have uncoverd some ritual take extraplanar energies by force, but thats still rolling around in the gristmill of my brainpan.

So as you can see in this setting all magic is either begged, borrowed or stolen, form a single source.
anonymity
10-14-05, 08:00 PM The simplest method is to just say that there is one magical source for all. The reason people have different ways to cast and different spells is because of the way they learn to interact with it.

Yes, but I am too picky for that (hypothetically). I want there to be one way to interact with magic. Is there anyway to achieve this without killing off all magical class except for one or two?

Cryeag, thats interesting. Basically, there are five distinct types of magic?
Cymraegmorgan
10-14-05, 08:41 PM Cryeag, thats interesting. Basically, there are five distinct types of magic?

Five different types of power, some are easier to express as magic, like arcane and divine.
FlameLover
10-14-05, 10:11 PM In the CS i'm working on i've decided to remove arcane/divine magic and make all magic just "magic". In this world magic is dark and occult and is something that is accepted but not understood - similar to gravity in the 1800s-1900s. No-one knows how or why but they do know that it happens and you can write formulas to predict how it will affect things but how it happened or why was out of reach.

As for mechanically how to do it i'm just making one single caster class that requires Int, Cha & Wis for succesful casting and i'm just opening it up sort-of. There aren't rigid "spells" in this system but elements, methods and rituals which you combine and modify to gain effects. Ofcourse there are base things to work from like say a "Mage Hand" ability but you can augment it with feats, class abilities, etc.

But if you don't want anything too drastic just remove either divine, arcane (prep) or arcane (div). Easy :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
anonymity 10-14-05, 01:35 AM	Magic is a staple of the fantasy genre. Arguably, fantasy is defined by the presence of it. In D&D, there are several distinct ways to gain magical aptitude. Wizard Learning to cast spells as a wizard requires meticulous study and unusual Intelligence. Does this mean magic is simply a matter of learning gestures and incantations? Also, why can only a certain number of spells be cast per day? Sorcerer/Bard The innate magic of Sorcerers and Bards seems to be a talent. You either have it or you don't, and though force of personailty helps you use your talent, you will never cast a single sorcerer or bard spell not matter how hard you try or how high your Charisma unless you have "it". Does this mean magic is simply a random gift of genetics or fate? Cleric/Paladin Clerics and Paladins have thier own source of magic, religion. Does thier power stem from devoutness, or is it actually the power of thier god manfiested through the believer? Druid/Ranger Druids and Rangers have perhaps the strangest source of magical power; nature. One might argue druids are simply specialized clerics and rangers specialized paladins, but many don't, and so we have to consider yet another source of magic. What exactly is nature, and how does it give magic? Psionics I am sure many people will claim Psionics aren't magic. Fair enough, but this confuses the question of where does magic come from further. If Psions can manipulate reality in some way that is distinct from magic, where exactly does that power come from? I could go on, about creatures who seemed to have evolved consistant methods of applying magic and about "nonmagical" fighters and rougues who achieve superhuman abilities at the higher levels, but my point is this. I realize many people simply accept that there are numerous sources of magical aptitude and leave it at that, but I for one wish the game mechanics were such that magic is a single, unified force. Does anyone have any thoughts on having one source, one rationale, for magical power? Is there a way, by subtly altering mechanics or really good explaining, to have all the magical classes wield a single force without completely rewriting the classes and magic system? I can't be the only one who has wondered about this.
jagggar 10-14-05, 01:41 AM	The simplest method is to just say that there is one magical source for all. The reason people have different ways to cast and different spells is because of the way they learn to interact with it.
Cymraegmorgan 10-14-05, 02:46 AM	Though I have done an awful lot of rewriting to classes and the magic system, my Campaign Settings rationale for the various sorts of character power is thus: Divine Classes draw power from the Deisphere, that pattern of divine energy weaving its way through all the Created and Uncreated. Culture Classes draw power from the Sorusphere, the sum total of cooperative energy, as well as the complimenting energies that surge through the Spheres. Arcane Classes draw power from the Ecosphere, the five elements and the myriad combinations they make throughout Altvogge. Psionic Classes draw their power from the Psychosphere, the some total of mental energy in the Spheres and Planes. Utility Classes draw their power from within their individual essence directly from their own Egosphere. My CS is linked in my sig, for more info.
syrinth 10-14-05, 12:04 PM	I am so stealing that cymraeg lol. You don't mind do ya?
Cymraegmorgan 10-14-05, 12:32 PM	I am so stealing that cymraeg lol. You don't mind do ya? Not a bit. That is why on my CS website I put that on an OGL page. :D
00_Whupass 10-14-05, 02:33 PM	Interestingly enough one of the projects I currently have eating away at my limited free time is the construction of a new campaign setting, and one of the fundamental conciets I set out for myself when writing the setting is to blur the lines on the distinct sources of magical power. In this setting, which is as of yet unnamed, I have laid out a few guidelines for magic: 1. All magic, both divine and arcane draws its power from extraplanar sources. 2. There are no living active deities 3. Magic cannot be "learned", it is fundamentally beyond human understanding. These three factors have led to some interesting facets of the character classes. Since magic cannot be learned that means wizards, and anyone else who brings forth magical energies as a result of cloistered study, such as the Arcanist from the upcoming Heroes of Horror, would have to be fundamentally changed. Sorcerers, Bards and Favored Souls, are those who have been in some way fundamentally touched by planar energies, perhaps they were born in a place where the fabric that separates the planes has worn thin, or perhaps they have an Outsider in their ancestry. Clerics, Paladins, Warlocks and Hexblades all quite litterally barter with extraplanar entities, offering servitude, their own souls, or making sacrifices, in exchange for magical power. I've considered allowing wizards, spell thieves, warmages and other classes who traditionally gained magic through study to instead have uncoverd some ritual take extraplanar energies by force, but thats still rolling around in the gristmill of my brainpan. So as you can see in this setting all magic is either begged, borrowed or stolen, form a single source.
anonymity 10-14-05, 08:00 PM	The simplest method is to just say that there is one magical source for all. The reason people have different ways to cast and different spells is because of the way they learn to interact with it. Yes, but I am too picky for that (hypothetically). I want there to be one way to interact with magic. Is there anyway to achieve this without killing off all magical class except for one or two? Cryeag, thats interesting. Basically, there are five distinct types of magic?
Cymraegmorgan 10-14-05, 08:41 PM	Cryeag, thats interesting. Basically, there are five distinct types of magic? Five different types of power, some are easier to express as magic, like arcane and divine.
FlameLover 10-14-05, 10:11 PM	In the CS i'm working on i've decided to remove arcane/divine magic and make all magic just "magic". In this world magic is dark and occult and is something that is accepted but not understood - similar to gravity in the 1800s-1900s. No-one knows how or why but they do know that it happens and you can write formulas to predict how it will affect things but how it happened or why was out of reach. As for mechanically how to do it i'm just making one single caster class that requires Int, Cha & Wis for succesful casting and i'm just opening it up sort-of. There aren't rigid "spells" in this system but elements, methods and rituals which you combine and modify to gain effects. Ofcourse there are base things to work from like say a "Mage Hand" ability but you can augment it with feats, class abilities, etc. But if you don't want anything too drastic just remove either divine, arcane (prep) or arcane (div). Easy :)