Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EvilVegan 09-07-07, 02:40 PM	Unknown character: I was considering running a campaign where the player involvement in character creation is a bit more limited. They tell me what they want their abilities, BAB, saves, skills, and HD to be (I'll make a chart), then they tell me what they want to be able to do. From that point on I'll determine their class abilities. They still pick feats and skills, but the levelling process will be behind the scenes and more fantastic. All of the characters will effectively be psions/warlocks/sorcerers/favored souls/etc, but they won't know what they are. They'll just get new abilities usable so many times per day. The power level, flavor, and utility will vary depending on their other abilities. If someone wanted d12 hit die, 4 skill points, full BAB, and one good save, I could gear them as a barbarian or a warblade. If they wanted to be poor BAB, 2 skill points, I could gear them as psions. The plot would revolve around one major point but the minor portions would be them coming to learn how to use their powers. Chart: Hit Die d12 8 d10 6 d8 4 d6 2 d4 0 BAB Full 4 Average 2 Poor 0 Saves (cumulative) Poor 0 Average 2 Good 4 Skill points 10 8 8 6 6 4 4 2 2 0 Feat progression Every even level 8 Every 3rd level 6 Every 4th level 4 Every 5th level 2 Every 6th level 0 So a warblade (20 points) would have fewer points for abilities, but the base line psion (6 points) would have plenty. These points are completely arbitrary and are just a basis for upper and individual power limits. If someone designs a 42 point character (d12 hit die, all good saves, 10 skill points, full BAB, fighter feat progression) they wouldn't get any "special powers", but they would still rock. Suggestions? Kudos? I don't really know if I need more info since it's just a idea that probably won't get much play.
Talisman 09-07-07, 11:21 PM	It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how workable it is. Problems: Players are unable to effectively map out their characters' progression ahead of time. A lot of players (myself incuded) like to sit down and design our characters through 10-15-20 levels, before deciding on the most fun/efficient build. Who gets to pick spells/powers/invocations? You? Players may feel cheated. The players? You lose some of that aura of mystery. Who decides what sort of special ability each PC gets? For instance, does Player A get psionic powers and Player B get divine spells? Why? Balance. The numbers you have look like a decent starting point, but I can easily see this leading to unbalanced, under- or overpowered, or just plain screwy characters. Class abilities. If I want evasion, can I get it? If not, that's lame. If so, how? As a feat? (bad idea...class abilities aren't feats for a reason) As an arbitrary, when-the-GM-says-so thing? PrCs. How in the holy jumping nether reaches of Limbo will you handle those? I may sound negative, but it comes from harsh experience (skills-based, classless D&D variant...long story). I like the underlying concept, but this needs a lot of work before I would feel comfortable with it. That being said, I do like the basic idea.
EvilVegan 09-08-07, 10:18 AM	It's an interesting idea, but I'm not sure how workable it is. Problems: Players are unable to effectively map out their characters' progression ahead of time. A lot of players (myself incuded) like to sit down and design our characters through 10-15-20 levels, before deciding on the most fun/efficient build. Who gets to pick spells/powers/invocations? You? Players may feel cheated. The players? You lose some of that aura of mystery. Who decides what sort of special ability each PC gets? For instance, does Player A get psionic powers and Player B get divine spells? Why? Balance. The numbers you have look like a decent starting point, but I can easily see this leading to unbalanced, under- or overpowered, or just plain screwy characters. Class abilities. If I want evasion, can I get it? If not, that's lame. If so, how? As a feat? (bad idea...class abilities aren't feats for a reason) As an arbitrary, when-the-GM-says-so thing? PrCs. How in the holy jumping nether reaches of Limbo will you handle those? I may sound negative, but it comes from harsh experience (skills-based, classless D&D variant...long story). I like the underlying concept, but this needs a lot of work before I would feel comfortable with it. That being said, I do like the basic idea. You don't sound negative at all. All very important points! One thing I was considering (since I often only have 2 regular players) was doing it as part of a gestalt game. The players determine one progression and I throw on a "mystery class" giving them the extra abilities they need. That would allow people to build their own progressions with PrCs etc. Then I would use their base-line abilities as a springboard. I also would give them "primer" abilities and they can train these or not. For instance: Party fighting an ogre on bridge, they're 2nd level. The ogre slams Player A off the side, over a fall of about 90 feet. Player A falls about 30 feet (or more) and then suddenly his fall slows (slow fall/catfall) and he takes no damage. So now he's got slowfall so many times per day. He can work on this ability and by 3rd level he's got a levitate ability, then fly by 5th level. If he wanted to work it out differently he could choose to get a telekinetic ability instead. If they could reasonably figure out another way to link an ability (mass alteration, telekinesis, flight, etc) they can get it, but most of their abilities will be abilities of necessity. On the other hand if the player is naturally a psion/sorcerer it would work differently. He would find himself more capable in combat or with more hit points than he should logically have. He'd learn a maneuver that he could use once per encounter. Or he'd have evasion. It all depends on their stats. A sorcerer with a high dex might have rogue abilities, a wizard with str/con would get warblade abilities, cleric would blend well with crusader, and so on. Of course this will make the game more "super-heroey" but if you take a step back from D&D and look at the psion/sorcerer they would easily fit in any comic book. And what about a Warlock? I shoot lasers out of my hands all day and can fly while invisible? (I made a warforged warlock named Sentinel) So I'm not that worried about it, plus both of my players are huge comic fans. As for divine/arcane I was going to base that on their stats, if they're high Int they get arcane, if they're high Wisdom they get nature, if they're high Charisma they get divine. If they have all good mental stats they get psionics. I divide magic up differently in my campaigns. Arcane (Int) is utility/blasting, Divine (Cha) is healing/buffing, and Nature (Wis) is a mixture of arcane/divine at higher levels. All the divisions have some summoning and divination. Psionics is different but the same. :) As for prestige classes, well, for one most of my core players don't usually go into PrCs and two, if they do we make one up that matches their character and the world. . . it makes the story more seamless. There is no reason for all these splats to have 80 PrCs for organizations that don't exist in my world, but I do see a need for elite classes/abilities.
Avenger314 09-08-07, 11:31 PM	Heya, I posted a somewhat similar idea on this thread: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=916566 I'm curious what you think of it. One thing you may want to consider: Keep the core classes intact, letting the players levle up as normal. But you have a secret list of extra bonuses they may get (similar to a major bloodline). Don't give them an LA, just maybe throw in slightly tougher monsters. For example, one player is a psion as normal and advances by the book. What he doesn't know (but you do) is that his brain contains a miniscule (blood-cell sized) intelligent crystal parasite. At times, it resonates with psionic energy: Unpredictably, he might suddenly find a power maximized or he gets a second will saving throw. Another character might be a hexblade. Unknown to him, one of his ancestors was an efreet. You occasionally tell him to add a bonus to an ability score or skill check, coinciding secretly with the Efreet bloodline. Jim
EvilVegan 09-09-07, 08:46 AM	That's approximately what I was going to do, but the benefits would be greater. Because my party is small.