Using Action Points... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Using Action Points... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Eldren
05-25-04, 12:05 AM I've been allowing the PCs to use action points in my campaign. This has resulted in some rather overpowering situations, since the PCs have action points but the enemies they're facing don't (mostly because I just don't want to sit down and calculate the action points for each encounter they have).

I'm debating removing the use of action points from my next session and forward, but I know that this is going to result in cries of outrage from my players. If I can find some way to keep action points more balanced, so the expenditure of a point by each character each round doesn't result in an automatic victory from the party (I know the PCs are ultimately supposed to come out on top, and I have no problem with this, but the use of action points is severely limiting how challenging that victory is), then I'll happily explore it, but if someone can't come up with something workable, then I'm going to have to bite the bullet and dump the use of action points at my next session.

Thoughts and/or input?
Jimmy_Groove
05-25-04, 03:55 AM Major opponents should have action points. Just give them either their level in action points or whatever you consider to be a fair and reasonable amount. Also, since action points make characters stronger you should up the power level of the opponents the characters face. Remember that it is your job to challenge the party, and feel free to do that any way it takes.
Degobah
05-28-04, 04:59 AM I'd have to ask where are all these action points coming from? As I understand it once used an AP is gone for good. If anything the NPCs could have more action points than the PCs do. Do that for a session and the players should be overjoyed that you're removing them :)
Jaerom Darkwind
05-28-04, 04:40 PM Well, don't bother working out how many action points the NPCs have. Just fudge it (as a DM, it's your right). Whenever the PCs seem to have too much of an edge, you just bring in the Action Points to even things out. Action Points are a great DM Cheating tool.
trapspringer
06-01-04, 12:10 AM It sounds (and that is as far as I mean, it sounds) like your players are regenerating action points. You gain them at level up. The End. You spend it, it leaves and don't come back no ways no hows.
Flamy
06-01-04, 01:07 AM I think people here have stumbled upon a point. where are all those action points coming from? I mean, you gte a set amount per level and no more till you level up. Does this mean that they're leveling up every session?

Seriously though, instead of removing them, give soem to the NPCs. Fight fire with fire! The game will probably become balanced and, if it still doesn't it'll be easier to remove it. "Remember, NPCs can use Action Points too..."
Veton
06-01-04, 02:42 AM Also, have you been calculating how much GP worth of Action Points they have?

If I remember correctly, one Action Point is equal to 10 * Character Level as one AP can do a lot. If you are giving them lots of APs and treasure as well, they might have a lot to use.
Riznar
06-01-04, 03:57 AM I use action dice as a reward system instead of something that comes with levels. Whenever a player does something particularly clever or cool, I give them an action die. I have them keep track of how many they've earned throughout the campaign, so they have a "score" and try to raise it.

It has worked really well, and my players are really unlucky, so they never have more than 2 or 3 action die at their disposal.

I also like to give action die to a player in situations where they're earning exp and the rest of the party isn't. For instance, recently one of my players foiled his assassination and thus didn't need to be rescued. So he got an action die.
trapspringer
06-05-04, 03:33 PM Original poster!! Your being berated and attacked!!! Where are you to answerr questions??
Keltheos
06-09-04, 06:24 PM Like Rinzar I'm using action points (well, dice). Basically, we've adopted the action dice system from Spycraft into our campaign and use it for a number of effects including boosting damage dice and forcing 'falters' on an opposing roll.

Party members gain a specific amount of dice at the start of each session (currently, its 3d4), and then expend them as needed, gaining them as the DM (me) determines they should (i.e. for good roleplaying, for making the table laugh, for rescuing an innocent, etc). This keeps the players working toward the little carrot of a die throughout the game (and they don't overly abuse them either). And, since its a single die it doesn't ruin the mechanics with automatic successes, etc.

Likewise, the DM gets a pool of dice equal to the number of dice each party member gets (3) AND the total number of characters playing (say 4) for a total of 7, but those 7 dice cover ALL the NPC's, not just one. My pool only refreshes when I give a player a die (i.e. I get one as well). Did I mention the bennie for the DM is that his action die is a d12?

So far we've been enjoying this system.
Arnkel
06-09-04, 08:44 PM I always allow a character one re-roll/redo per adventure. They don't carry over, but a character can give his to an ally. The trade off is, that since I roll behind a dm screen, I can fudge the dice rolls of the NPCs if I feel the characters are taking too easy or rough a time, in a sense, the NPCs are getting a dramatic reroll of their own.
The Commoner
06-15-04, 10:04 PM Actions Points are a good concept, but I do not like the UA system for them. Instead of the get set number of points every level, treat them as Heroic Rewards. I kind of treat it like the Force Point system from the 2nd Edition Star Wars game, where points were awarded for "very heroic actions" (i.e. blowing up a Star Destroyer to save a rebel convoy, saving an important diplomat from lazer blast maybe even taking the blast yourself, etc.).
With my version I reward characters 1 to 3 points per adventure or episode (which is usually only 1) based on the level of heroic actions that they took in the adventure. It is also different for each character, we had a rouge that stayed in the background and played distance combat for three game sessions and only got 1 character point. This was because he didn't do anything really heroic. I mean he didn't take any hits and played it smart, but he also left the Ranger that cast Longstrider on him to give him extra movement to flank stranded after detemining shoot and run was a better tactic. The ranger on the other hand recieved 2 action points that game for disarming two gnolls from flailing the cleric (without the Improved disarm feat thus instigating an AoO) and another for diving after a fighter that was drowning (due to heavy armor after failing a balance check crossing over a rock bridge over an Underdark Pool). He saved the fighter with an assisted swimming check and took some bites damage from carnivourous fish inhabiting it.
Also my version allows you to spend an action points to improve or save your life above and beyond the standard addition to dice rolls. The following list is how they may be spent:

1 Action Point may be spent to immediately stabilize yourself when on Death's Door (-1 to -9 HP).

5 Action Points may be spent to save your life against a killing blow or Death effect (The character is stabilized at -9 HP though)

10 Action points to gain 1 skill rank in a skill from you character skill list.

25 Action Points may be spent to gain a Non-Combat/Non-Metamagic/Non-Item Creative/Non-Psionic Feat. Basically the feats in line with Skill Focus.

35 Action Points may be spent to gain a Combat/Metamagic/Item Creation/Psionic Feat.

40 Action Points may be spent to improve an ability score.

It takes about 20 game sessions to get to 25 Action Points (thus free feat) with my system and by that time the charcters are 8th or 9th level and that is based on the fact the character has been using almost none of their points for die rolls. I also get to control distribution of the Action Points, so it is never imbalanced. I had a player ask why the same ranger was getting a free feat with his APs and why he was at half that. It was because he kept using them.

Note: Also if a character uses an action point while sacrificing theirselves to save others (i.e. jumping in front of a Disentegrate spell, holding off an orc hoard while other's escape, etc. Then the character gets that point back on top of new points. Combined group attack and team efforts don't.
I hope this helps.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Eldren 05-25-04, 12:05 AM	I've been allowing the PCs to use action points in my campaign. This has resulted in some rather overpowering situations, since the PCs have action points but the enemies they're facing don't (mostly because I just don't want to sit down and calculate the action points for each encounter they have). I'm debating removing the use of action points from my next session and forward, but I know that this is going to result in cries of outrage from my players. If I can find some way to keep action points more balanced, so the expenditure of a point by each character each round doesn't result in an automatic victory from the party (I know the PCs are ultimately supposed to come out on top, and I have no problem with this, but the use of action points is severely limiting how challenging that victory is), then I'll happily explore it, but if someone can't come up with something workable, then I'm going to have to bite the bullet and dump the use of action points at my next session. Thoughts and/or input?
Jimmy_Groove 05-25-04, 03:55 AM	Major opponents should have action points. Just give them either their level in action points or whatever you consider to be a fair and reasonable amount. Also, since action points make characters stronger you should up the power level of the opponents the characters face. Remember that it is your job to challenge the party, and feel free to do that any way it takes.
Degobah 05-28-04, 04:59 AM	I'd have to ask where are all these action points coming from? As I understand it once used an AP is gone for good. If anything the NPCs could have more action points than the PCs do. Do that for a session and the players should be overjoyed that you're removing them :)
Jaerom Darkwind 05-28-04, 04:40 PM	Well, don't bother working out how many action points the NPCs have. Just fudge it (as a DM, it's your right). Whenever the PCs seem to have too much of an edge, you just bring in the Action Points to even things out. Action Points are a great DM Cheating tool.
trapspringer 06-01-04, 12:10 AM	It sounds (and that is as far as I mean, it sounds) like your players are regenerating action points. You gain them at level up. The End. You spend it, it leaves and don't come back no ways no hows.
Flamy 06-01-04, 01:07 AM	I think people here have stumbled upon a point. where are all those action points coming from? I mean, you gte a set amount per level and no more till you level up. Does this mean that they're leveling up every session? Seriously though, instead of removing them, give soem to the NPCs. Fight fire with fire! The game will probably become balanced and, if it still doesn't it'll be easier to remove it. "Remember, NPCs can use Action Points too..."
Veton 06-01-04, 02:42 AM	Also, have you been calculating how much GP worth of Action Points they have? If I remember correctly, one Action Point is equal to 10 * Character Level as one AP can do a lot. If you are giving them lots of APs and treasure as well, they might have a lot to use.
Riznar 06-01-04, 03:57 AM	I use action dice as a reward system instead of something that comes with levels. Whenever a player does something particularly clever or cool, I give them an action die. I have them keep track of how many they've earned throughout the campaign, so they have a "score" and try to raise it. It has worked really well, and my players are really unlucky, so they never have more than 2 or 3 action die at their disposal. I also like to give action die to a player in situations where they're earning exp and the rest of the party isn't. For instance, recently one of my players foiled his assassination and thus didn't need to be rescued. So he got an action die.
trapspringer 06-05-04, 03:33 PM	Original poster!! Your being berated and attacked!!! Where are you to answerr questions??
Keltheos 06-09-04, 06:24 PM	Like Rinzar I'm using action points (well, dice). Basically, we've adopted the action dice system from Spycraft into our campaign and use it for a number of effects including boosting damage dice and forcing 'falters' on an opposing roll. Party members gain a specific amount of dice at the start of each session (currently, its 3d4), and then expend them as needed, gaining them as the DM (me) determines they should (i.e. for good roleplaying, for making the table laugh, for rescuing an innocent, etc). This keeps the players working toward the little carrot of a die throughout the game (and they don't overly abuse them either). And, since its a single die it doesn't ruin the mechanics with automatic successes, etc. Likewise, the DM gets a pool of dice equal to the number of dice each party member gets (3) AND the total number of characters playing (say 4) for a total of 7, but those 7 dice cover ALL the NPC's, not just one. My pool only refreshes when I give a player a die (i.e. I get one as well). Did I mention the bennie for the DM is that his action die is a d12? So far we've been enjoying this system.
Arnkel 06-09-04, 08:44 PM	I always allow a character one re-roll/redo per adventure. They don't carry over, but a character can give his to an ally. The trade off is, that since I roll behind a dm screen, I can fudge the dice rolls of the NPCs if I feel the characters are taking too easy or rough a time, in a sense, the NPCs are getting a dramatic reroll of their own.
The Commoner 06-15-04, 10:04 PM	Actions Points are a good concept, but I do not like the UA system for them. Instead of the get set number of points every level, treat them as Heroic Rewards. I kind of treat it like the Force Point system from the 2nd Edition Star Wars game, where points were awarded for "very heroic actions" (i.e. blowing up a Star Destroyer to save a rebel convoy, saving an important diplomat from lazer blast maybe even taking the blast yourself, etc.). With my version I reward characters 1 to 3 points per adventure or episode (which is usually only 1) based on the level of heroic actions that they took in the adventure. It is also different for each character, we had a rouge that stayed in the background and played distance combat for three game sessions and only got 1 character point. This was because he didn't do anything really heroic. I mean he didn't take any hits and played it smart, but he also left the Ranger that cast Longstrider on him to give him extra movement to flank stranded after detemining shoot and run was a better tactic. The ranger on the other hand recieved 2 action points that game for disarming two gnolls from flailing the cleric (without the Improved disarm feat thus instigating an AoO) and another for diving after a fighter that was drowning (due to heavy armor after failing a balance check crossing over a rock bridge over an Underdark Pool). He saved the fighter with an assisted swimming check and took some bites damage from carnivourous fish inhabiting it. Also my version allows you to spend an action points to improve or save your life above and beyond the standard addition to dice rolls. The following list is how they may be spent: 1 Action Point may be spent to immediately stabilize yourself when on Death's Door (-1 to -9 HP). 5 Action Points may be spent to save your life against a killing blow or Death effect (The character is stabilized at -9 HP though) 10 Action points to gain 1 skill rank in a skill from you character skill list. 25 Action Points may be spent to gain a Non-Combat/Non-Metamagic/Non-Item Creative/Non-Psionic Feat. Basically the feats in line with Skill Focus. 35 Action Points may be spent to gain a Combat/Metamagic/Item Creation/Psionic Feat. 40 Action Points may be spent to improve an ability score. It takes about 20 game sessions to get to 25 Action Points (thus free feat) with my system and by that time the charcters are 8th or 9th level and that is based on the fact the character has been using almost none of their points for die rolls. I also get to control distribution of the Action Points, so it is never imbalanced. I had a player ask why the same ranger was getting a free feat with his APs and why he was at half that. It was because he kept using them. Note: Also if a character uses an action point while sacrificing theirselves to save others (i.e. jumping in front of a Disentegrate spell, holding off an orc hoard while other's escape, etc. Then the character gets that point back on top of new points. Combined group attack and team efforts don't. I hope this helps.