Post/Author/DateTime	Post
caeruleus 09-22-04, 12:41 PM	One thing I like about older editions of D&D is that some classes had pretty high ability score requirements before you can take that class. This made, for example, paladins more rare than fighters. Paladins were also more powerful than fighters in previous editions; they were basically fighters with more abilities. Assuming such a thing is desireable, consider the following. I'm only going to consider fighters, barbarians, paladins, and rangers here. Anyone can become a fighter. But in order to become a barbarian, a paladin, or a ranger, a character needs to meet certain ability score minimums, such as a 17 Charisma for a paladin (or whatever). In order to reflect how these characters were basically (if not 100%) fighters with yet more abilities, allow such characters to gestalt with the fighter class. Barbarians, paladins, and rangers become more rare, and more powerful. Yes, this can be "unbalancing". I'm not concerned with that, because I'm trying to recreate the imbalance of earlier editions. (It's not that I think imbalance is good, this is just an exercise to see if this aspect of older editions can be done in a 3.x context.) Any thoughts on how this might be done better?
Digital_Druid 09-25-04, 01:44 AM	You know caeruleus I like that idea alot (if im correct gastalt is taking a level in 2 classes at once but leveling up in both at the same time as if they were one class).. but i have always been one for each character being distinct from another and in certain areas be higher or lower it adds that swirl of realism to fantasy i like... im might look into this myself let me know if u figure anything out :ayyyy!:
caeruleus 09-26-04, 03:09 PM	Yes, that's basically what gestalt is (in a D&D context anyway). It's from Unearthed Arcana. I'm glad you like the idea... the lack of many replies seems to suggest most people are lukewarm about it.
Digital_Druid 09-26-04, 06:00 PM	Yeah i wouldnt be suprised there are alot of new players out there that dont like old school anything, given i say d20 is far better system than the old but there were certain things about old school that just never made it into 3e, the restrictions of 2e and such are what made it fun like only ultra special elves could be paladins and it couldnt be as easy to be many things but hopefully we can keep this goin
Kiri Sittori 09-29-04, 09:58 AM	Actually, I happen to LIKE 2e. :) Thus, I'll try to help you out (though I'd like to avoid auto-gestalt Paladins.) Classes: (Experience modifiers apply to any experience earned, and are applied before multiclass modifiers.) Fighter: No bonus feats; gain Leadership at L7. No experience adjustment. Paladin: No change needed. -10% experience. Ranger: Either MUST use two-weapon style, or just use 3.0 ranger. Gain Leadership (including animal Cohorts) at L8. -10% experience. Cleric: No change. Gain leadership at L8. +25% experience. Druid: No change, unless you want to use Hierarchy rules. NO experience adjustment. Wizard: No bonus feats. Loss of familiar is save or die (Fort partial: lose one Con point permanently.) -25% experience. (For extra nastiness, familiars do NOT gain hit points according to the wizard's level.) Sorcerer: Does not exist. Rogue: Sneak attack is a damage multiplier applied to *rolled weapon damage* only, and progresses at every four levels after first. Leadership is gained at L10. +50% experience. Bard: Must prepare spells, and cannot cast in armour. Leadership is gained at L8. +50% experience. Barbarian: Basically a variant fighter. Specialist wizards: Automatically gain both Spell Focus feats, and Arcane Defence, in the school of choice. Prohibitions: Abjurer - Transmutation and illusion Conjurer - Divination and evocation* Diviner - Conjuration Enchanter - Evocation and necromancy Evoker - Enchantment and conjuration Illusionist - Evocation, Necromancy, and Abjuration* Necromancer - Illusion and enchantment Transmuter - Abjuration and necromancy *Conjurer may prohibit transmutation+evocation, if you wish to follow 3.5 prohibition rules. *If you wish to use 3.5 prohibitions, illusionists can keep either evocation or abjuration. Necromancy is the direct opposition, and so must be opposed. -Skills: Concentrate does not exist. (All called-for Concentrate checks are assumed to fail automatically.) Move Silently and Hide are exclusive to rogue and ranger. Listen, Decipher Script, Use Magic Device, Pick Pockets, and Climb are exclusive to rogues and bards. Search (application: find traps) and Disable Device are exclusive to rogue. -Feats: Metamagic feats do not exist. Item Creation feats do exist, but generally aren't worth the trouble. :) -Racial class limitations and multiclassing: Characters must stick with whatever class(es) are started with. Multiclass characters use gestalt rules, and divide their experience according to how many classes they have (2 or 3.) Dwarves: Fighter, cleric, or rogue (Ftr/Clr or Ftr/Rog) Elves: Fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue, or ranger (any combinations with Ftr, Wiz, and Rog) Gnomes: Fighter, illusionist, cleric, rogue (any two) Halflings: Fighter, cleric, rogue (Ftr/Rog) Half Elves: Fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue, ranger, bard, druid (Ftr/Clr, Ftr/Wiz, Ftr/Rog, Ftr/Drd, Clr/Rgr, Drd/Rgr; Ftr/Clr/Wiz, Ftr/Rog/Wiz, Ftr/Drd/Wiz.) -Human multiclassing: Use standard 3e rules, but ANY class that is classed out of is "closed" (ie, all classes follow the Paladin/Monk rule.)