Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Delbert_Less 09-01-06, 07:51 PM	I'm currently working on my campaign and there's one place, where players will eventually enter the vacuum. Is there any official rules 'bout it or do I have to invent it myself?
DragonBringerX 09-01-06, 11:59 PM	none that i know of...i think unfortunatly your going to have to "do it yourself". a few Q's though: Are your PC's going to have a means of breathing? Are your PC's going to have a means of not exploding? (lack of pressure!) Are your PC's going to be weightless (0g like in space) or with gravity? If so, then how will they move, magic? Tips: You may want to consider some special magic meant for vacum's and such...such as Nothingness Breathing Transmutation Level: Cleric 4, Drd 4, Wiz/Sor 4 Components: S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Living creatures touched Duration: 2 hours/level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: yes (harmless) You, and living creatures touched can now breath and survive in a vacum for the duration of the spell. This spell does not enable creatures to move in zero gravity, such as in space. Arcane Material Component: A peice of black leather, usualy cured.
AT-AT Assault 09-02-06, 12:07 AM	Jedi Counseling 89 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20060518jc89), scroll down and you'll find some official vacuum rules. Mind you these were made for the SW RPG, so you might have to increase the DCs to account for magic bonuses that are non-existant in the SW RPG. Also 4 meters = 2 squares = 10 Feet.
AT-AT Assault 09-02-06, 12:11 AM	Are your PC's going to have a means of not exploding? (lack of pressure!)Contrary to popular belief, you do not explode upon exposure to hard vacuum (the Human body is a lot tougher than you think it is). NASA had an astronaut exposed to a near complete vacuum in an Earth bound experiment. He fell unconsicous, they filled the chamber and when it was back to about .15 atomspheres he started to regain consciouness.Are your PC's going to be weightless (0g like in space) or with gravity? If so, then how will they move, magic?The spell, Fly should be sufficient to account for this.
Chainsaw 09-02-06, 02:40 AM	Well there is no air, so use the suffocation rules. The above poster is right, your head doesn't explode if you take off your helmet in space, you just can't breathe. Also, keep in mind sound does not travel in a vacuum. Not like those hollywood movies with lasers spraying and bombs exploding. And that brings me to another point....fires are impossible in an oxygen-free environment.
AT-AT Assault 09-02-06, 12:09 PM	Well there is no air, so use the suffocation rules. The above poster is right, your head doesn't explode if you take off your helmet in space, you just can't breathe. Also, keep in mind sound does not travel in a vacuum. Not like those hollywood movies with lasers spraying and bombs exploding. And that brings me to another point....fires are impossible in an oxygen-free environment.Conventional fires, yes. Ever see an underwater flare? They have the oxygen in the combustible itself. Same goes with rockets, and such. All you really need to do is add a nitrate to your combustible and you can make it flare up (or go boom) wherever you are.
DragonBringerX 09-02-06, 04:02 PM	i know you don't explode the instint your exposed to a hard vacuum, but you will eventually. As all your blood boils and finds the quickest way to escape your body...you'll die a very slow/painful death. Not to mention if their in space, they'll freeze to death before they'll suffocate, or burn to a crisp if there facing the sun.
AT-AT Assault 09-02-06, 04:23 PM	i know you don't explode the instint your exposed to a hard vacuum, but you will eventually. As all your blood boils and finds the quickest way to escape your body...you'll die a very slow/painful death. Not to mention if their in space, they'll freeze to death before they'll suffocate, or burn to a crisp if there facing the sun.Pressure: Maybe, but most likely not. Your lungs would be the easiest outlet for you blood cells. You will not freeze to death in space. In space there is no cold material to steal your heat, the only way to lose heat is by emitting it as infrared radiation, something fleshy bodies do at a very slow pace. Being within about 2 or 3 AU of an average star will fry you (if there is a line of sight between you and the star), but the lack of oxygen will almost always be the way you die in a vacuum.
058 09-02-06, 05:55 PM	If you're naked in space, it's likely you'll also be within the same distance of a star as a habitable planet, which means that temperatures would be rather high, as opposed to low. You're still catching sunlight, which will keep you perfectly warm, until you manage to get far enough away that the heat dissipates, by which time you'll likely have suffocated. Your blood does not boil in space(unless you get too close to an extreme heat source), nor does your heart explode or your lungs implode or your eyes fall out of your head. The only hostile things about space are its lack of anything breathable, the difficulty of maneuvering in near-zero gravity, and fast moving foreign objects. By the way, as a valid explanation for sound and explosions in sci-fi flicks: For the fire, most spacecraft carry oxygen or some other gas for the occupants to inhale, which would burn when the craft was destroyed, causing a short-lived explosion. While sound may not transmit through space due to a lack of gas to carry the vibrations, whatever either gets hit or does the shooting will experience the vibrations, meaning that the sound will carry to the occupants, and one could argue that a space battle is performed from the viewpoint of the pilot or passengers.
Darth Sephiroth 09-02-06, 06:33 PM	The explosion only comes from explosive decompression not from the vacuum itself. Also you ought to take a look at the MSRD for it, I'd guess it's already there
Rhialto 09-02-06, 08:28 PM	ok, there are a number of issues. The low pressure means that boiling points go way down (this is the same effect that lowers the boiling point of water high on a mountain). Blood and other body fluids WILL boil at almost any normal temperature in a vacuum. Your head (or anything else) will not explode. Human bodies are made of tougher material than that. Your lungs might explode. The only way this would happen is if you have a full breath of air and try to hold it. That air would try to expand due to the lower pressure, and the easiest way to do that would be through the mouth and nose. If you take this option, deliberately not holding your breath would prevent this. Any membranous part of the body, such as the eyes and the inner lining of the mouth, can quickly get significant damage from dessication as the body fluids evaporate out through those points. This can be easily prevented by closing those orifices or protective clothing to cover them. Suffocation suffers the standard rules for no air, but the lung lining can suffer dessication damage as above. Outer space at Earth distances is generally too hot on parts facing the sun and too cold on parts facing away. However, there is no heat transfer from outside by convection. And unless they are on a planetary body, there is no conduction either, leaving only radiation. Radiation heat transfer isn't really fast enough to matter (you'll suffocate long before), and can be avoided entirely if the person is tumbling, even a very slow tumble. With internal convection (ie blood flow), that day/night side issue becomes even less of an issue. Conclusion: Suffocation - usual rules for not breathing. DM judgement on whether they should be allowed to try to hold their breath. If that cinematic option is chosen, they should automatically be unable to even try. Dessication: Assume they close their eyes if trained for this situation unless they intentionally look around. Untrained people won't close their eyes unless the player specifically says so. Figure a CON check each round eyes are open. First failed one results in "seriously dry eyes", second in -2 on all vision related tasks, third in temporary blindness, 4th in permanent blindness. For lungs, CON check each round as above. Each fail results in -1 CON. It takes 1d6 days of complete rest and a successful CON check to recover each point. Suitable protective clothing can prevent eye/lung damage. Substitute fortitude checks for CON checks if you feel that way inclined. Explosive decompression: You won't explode. can't happen. However, the force of moving air in a room at normal pressure suddenly dropping to vacuum can throw the person against a hard surface. Treat this as falling damage from where the character was to wherever that hard surface is.
DragonBringerX 09-03-06, 01:43 AM	Conclusion: Suffocation - usual rules for not breathing. DM judgement on whether they should be allowed to try to hold their breath. If that cinematic option is chosen, they should automatically be unable to even try. Dessication: Assume they close their eyes if trained for this situation unless they intentionally look around. Untrained people won't close their eyes unless the player specifically says so. Figure a CON check each round eyes are open. First failed one results in "seriously dry eyes", second in -2 on all vision related tasks, third in temporary blindness, 4th in permanent blindness. For lungs, CON check each round as above. Each fail results in -1 CON. It takes 1d6 days of complete rest and a successful CON check to recover each point. Suitable protective clothing can prevent eye/lung damage. Substitute fortitude checks for CON checks if you feel that way inclined. Explosive decompression: You won't explode. can't happen. However, the force of moving air in a room at normal pressure suddenly dropping to vacuum can throw the person against a hard surface. Treat this as falling damage from where the character was to wherever that hard surface is. sounds bout right:P
Rhialto 09-04-06, 03:58 AM	Extra notes for magic: Vacuum will not transmit sound, so the entire area is effectively under a non-magical silence effect. This may make casting spells with a verbal component into a non-trivial task. Similarly, and sound-based attacks will utterly fail. Without any oxygen present, fire based attacks will also be limited. Any natural fire will extinguish instantly with no useful effect. Natural fires that carry their own oxygen source (magnesium oxide flares, napalm, etc) can burn as long as that source of oxygen remains. magical fires should burn for a fraction of a second normal burn time (halve usual damage) then extinguish, unless they somehow create an oxygen source or are self-replenishing somehow. Lightning and electrical attacks should have half normal range, as it is that much harder for them to arc across a vacuum. However, because the electrical arc won't be dissipated by an atmosphere, add +1 damage per die rolled. I think that's all the obvious cases.
Sinaz 09-05-06, 12:12 PM	I'm currently working on my campaign and there's one place, where players will eventually enter the vacuum. Is there any official rules 'bout it or do I have to invent it myself? Just remember... the only rule you need... "In space, no one can hear you scream..."
Delbert_Less 09-05-06, 03:02 PM	Thanks a lot for you responses, guys! Special thanks to Rhialto. P.S.: A nice comment from Sinaz. I'll post my variant later.
DragonBringerX 09-05-06, 10:21 PM	[QUOTE=Rhialto]Extra notes for magic: Vacuum will not transmit sound, so the entire area is effectively under a non-magical silence effect. This may make casting spells with a verbal component into a non-trivial task. Similarly, and sound-based attacks will utterly fail. QUOTE] DO note my spell i placed up there has NO verbal component...i guess i should state that this doen't allow you to breath alien substances or atmospheres that you couldn't normally breath...such as water, alien plantet, etc???
Legdiwena 09-06-06, 12:59 AM	would it function same as silence or not? you just need to speak words, they don't have to be heard by anything
DragonBringerX 09-06-06, 01:00 AM	the spell funtions as if it were a "silent spell" per the metamagic feat...
Legdiwena 09-06-06, 01:07 AM	talking about spells in general, not just ones without a verbal component
Rhialto 09-06-06, 04:00 AM	would it function same as silence or not? you just need to speak words, they don't have to be heard by anything If a mage casts a spell in a forest, and there is no one to hear him casting it, is it really cast or not? There's several ways to resolve this: 1) the mage himself needs to hear the spell being cast. This only requires that his own sense of hearing be intact. Vacuum is irrelevant, as his own body can transmit the sound to his ears internally. This is probably not a good campaign option, as a mage who loses his hearing is pretty much :censored: . 2) An external observer needs to hear the spell being cast. This requires both an atmosphere, or both to be in solid contact with a large object (ie gravity based standing, not just touching a starship hull) to transmit teh sound, and a observer actually present. Further, that observer must have functioning ear drums. This may be why many mages have familiars if you go down this option. 3) An 'objective' observer must be able to hear the mage. This is basically option 2, but without the requirement that the observer be actually present, just that a potential observer should be able to hear the mage. 4) The mage need only go through the muscular actions (vocal box muscle contractions) necessary to make the noise, regardless of whether an observer is present, regardless of whether there is a mediukm to transmit sound, and possibly regardless of whether he moves those muscles with enough force to generate meaningful volume in a sound-friendly environment. Personally, I favour option 2, but each to their own.
Delbert_Less 09-06-06, 10:32 AM	In Vacuum everyone considered deaf. So, here is rule for it from SRD: Deafened: A deafened character cannot hear. She takes a –4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Listen checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components. Characters who remain deafened for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.
Delbert_Less 09-06-06, 11:19 AM	Here's my view on vacuum. In fact it's a compilation of all good ideas posted here as well as my own. I tried to make it as simple as possible, without going too far away from realism. Please make a judgment :) New Environment: Vacuum Sudden exposure to such area deals 1d6 points of constitution damage to any living creature (DC 20 Fort save to avoid). After that, all living creatures receive 1 point of constitution damage each round (DC 20 Fort save to avoid). Creatures of tiny size or smaller are not allowed a Fort save. Furthermore, all creatures that need to breathe begin to suffocate. Unlike being underwater or engulfed in smoke, one can't hold its breath without damaging its lungs. Thus, one must immediately begin making Constitution checks (DC 10, +1 per additional round) to avoid falling unconscious, as per the normal rules for suffocation (Page 304 of DMG). Any membranous part of the body, such as the eyes and the inner lining of the mouth, can quickly get significant damage from desiccation as the body fluids evaporate out through those points. This can be easily prevented by closing those orifices or protective clothing to cover them. Those, who close their eyes, are considered blinded (Page 300 of DMG). Those who do not do anything about it receive 1 Con damage each round, (No save is allowed). No sound can penetrate such area, and nothing that happen inside can be heard, so everyone inside considered deaf (Page 300 of DMG), as well as entire area is considered to be under a non-magical silence effect. All the spells with [Fire] descriptor automatically fail in such areas, due to lack of oxygen.
AT-AT Assault 09-06-06, 12:18 PM	If a mage casts a spell in a forest, and there is no one to hear him casting it, is it really cast or not? There's several ways to resolve this: 1) the mage himself needs to hear the spell being cast. This only requires that his own sense of hearing be intact. Vacuum is irrelevant, as his own body can transmit the sound to his ears internally. This is probably not a good campaign option, as a mage who loses his hearing is pretty much :censored: . 2) An external observer needs to hear the spell being cast. This requires both an atmosphere, or both to be in solid contact with a large object (ie gravity based standing, not just touching a starship hull) to transmit teh sound, and a observer actually present. Further, that observer must have functioning ear drums. This may be why many mages have familiars if you go down this option. 3) An 'objective' observer must be able to hear the mage. This is basically option 2, but without the requirement that the observer be actually present, just that a potential observer should be able to hear the mage. 4) The mage need only go through the muscular actions (vocal box muscle contractions) necessary to make the noise, regardless of whether an observer is present, regardless of whether there is a mediukm to transmit sound, and possibly regardless of whether he moves those muscles with enough force to generate meaningful volume in a sound-friendly environment. Personally, I favour option 2, but each to their own.I would say that for number three the objective observer is magic itself. The force of magic is all pervasive (except where spells have caused magic to cease, like anti-magic [you could think of the spell as telling magic not to be in a certain place for a certain amount of time]), and magic has to hear the verbal component of spells that have them (and since sound cant be transmitted in space, magic cant hear the spell). Make sense?
Sinaz 09-06-06, 12:22 PM	I'm following this thread with interest... I have a simple question for debate: Why does magical fire suffer in a vacuum? Or, inversely, what does magical fire combust normally? If you cast fireball, you aren't venting napalm out of your hand and igniting it with a pilot flame... you are just conjuring a big ball of violent fire. I could see that a cast fireball would move through the vacuum producing its own fire and heat... that could radiate and burn on contact, but perhaps that nothing could actually ignite from it without an additional source of oxygen. Discuss amongst yourselves... what is the true nature of magical fire?
AT-AT Assault 09-06-06, 12:55 PM	I'm following this thread with interest... I have a simple question for debate: Why does magical fire suffer in a vacuum? Or, inversely, what does magical fire combust normally? If you cast fireball, you aren't venting napalm out of your hand and igniting it with a pilot flame... you are just conjuring a big ball of violent fire. I could see that a cast fireball would move through the vacuum producing its own fire and heat... that could radiate and burn on contact, but perhaps that nothing could actually ignite from it without an additional source of oxygen. Discuss amongst yourselves... what is the true nature of magical fire?Magical fire is fueled by the gaseous waste produced by fiends; magic siphons it from the infernal plans. :D
Millennium 09-06-06, 02:09 PM	would it function same as silence or not? you just need to speak words, they don't have to be heard by anything This is true, but speaking requires you to move air through your respiratory system. The sounds are produced by a combination of two things: restricting and cutting off this air in specific ways (unvoiced consonants), and the vibration of the vocal cords (vowels and voiced consonants). Theoretically a water-breathing creature could speak by moving water in a similar manner; I can't think of any real-world creature that does that, but this is a fantasy game and it's easy enough to imagine creatures that do. In a vacuum, there's no air, water, or anything else to move. Without that, you can't speak. If you could speak, nobody else would be able to hear you, but since you can't speak that doesn't even matter.
Legdiwena 09-06-06, 02:23 PM	would a creature that doesn't require breathing take damage in vacuum? such as high lvl VoP with greater sustenance
Delbert_Less 09-06-06, 05:51 PM	would a creature that doesn't require breathing take damage in vacuum? such as high lvl VoP with greater sustenance No, it would not take damage from sources connected with breathing, but still its body fluids will boil (if any exist), and it still will be deaf etc. However, even some breathing creatures can live in vacuum, such as Tardigrade (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade). About fire: Yes, indeed, the nature of magical fire is magic itself. However, a fire cannot exist in area without oxygen, such as vacuum. Even magical fire is still fire - you can read the description of all [fire] spells from SRD\PHB. Btw, will there be any response for my vacuum variant?
Rhialto 09-06-06, 06:04 PM	Here's my view on vacuum. In fact it's a compilation of all good ideas posted here as well as my own. I tried to make it as simple as possible, without going too far away from realism. Please make a judgment :) New Environment: Vacuum Sudden exposure to such area deals 1d6 points of constitution damage to any living creature (DC 20 Fort save to avoid). After that, all living creatures receive 1 point of constitution damage each round (DC 20 Fort save to avoid). Creatures of tiny size or smaller are not allowed a Fort save. Furthermore, all creatures that need to breathe begin to suffocate. Unlike being underwater or engulfed in smoke, one can't hold its breath without damaging its lungs. Thus, one must immediately begin making Constitution checks (DC 10, +1 per additional round) to avoid falling unconscious, as per the normal rules for suffocation (Page 304 of DMG). Any membranous part of the body, such as the eyes and the inner lining of the mouth, can quickly get significant damage from desiccation as the body fluids evaporate out through those points. This can be easily prevented by closing those orifices or protective clothing to cover them. Those, who close their eyes, are considered blinded (Page 300 of DMG). Those who do not do anything about it receive 1 Con damage each round, (No save is allowed). No sound can penetrate such area, and nothing that happen inside can be heard, so everyone inside considered deaf (Page 300 of DMG), as well as entire area is considered to be under a non-magical silence effect. All the spells with [Fire] descriptor automatically fail in such areas, due to lack of oxygen. About the eyes... you have CON damage if kept open, and characters can close their eyes to prevent this. But there doesn't appear to be any rule for blindness if eyes are kept open. The only damage taken is to CON, and not eye-specific effects. Also, what if eyes are protected but lungs aren't, or vice versa? After all, eyes are relatively simple to protect (just close them), but it would essentially require a pressure-sealed helmet or facemask (facemask being even higher technology than a full helmet) to protect the lungs. Even pinching the nose wouldn't really stop the air pressure from escaping. science question: Would pinching your nose form an effective barrier to help in holding your breath/preventing lung dessication in RW physics? Regarding speaking in a vacuum: I say you can do it. Speaking involves not just making the air molecules (which don't exists there) vibrate, but also the relevant voice box structures. I'd rule that this is sufficient to transmit the sound internally within your own body. It would be an oddly distorted version of your normal voice to be sure, but everyone sounds differently to themselves compared to how they sound to others for precisely this reason. This is a real observable effect (just listen to your recorded voice).
Delbert_Less 09-06-06, 06:45 PM	I may add blindness, if eyes are kept open for.. say 5 rounds (30 seconds), but the bigger rules about other things may be very cumbersome. There are already too much rules for vacuum, so I'd just better stop on this point and anyone else, who want to use vacuum in their campaigns may increase the number of rules as they desire. In fact, I’d prefer to lessen the number of rules, but... well, make them somewhat hardcore. For example: Everyone receives 1 Con damage each round without a right for saving throw, since the environment is absolutely unfriendly and unusual for any creature. All are considered deaf and the area itself is considered as if it was under the non-magical silence effect. [Fire] spells do not works, as well as normal fire does not burn, due to lack of oxygen. All are suffocating from the moment, they are exposed to vacuum and have to make CON checks (DC 10, +1 for additional round) not to fall unconscious. About Speaking: Not a single sound can be heard in vacuum. But as I've said earlier spellcasting in vacuum is the same as spellcasting while being deaf, which results in 20% chance of failure.
Millennium 09-08-06, 02:38 PM	would a creature that doesn't require breathing take damage in vacuum? such as high lvl VoP with greater sustenance Such a creature wouldn't suffocate, but suffocation is not the only danger in a vacuum. The extremely low pressure presents other problems which can cause damage. Damage-wise, I'd just do a relatively simple abstraction: perhaps 2d6 points of bludgeoning damage per round, not unlike being deep underwater except that the damage is from low pressure rather than high. A character in vacuum cannot see or speak, and can only hear things in direct contact with his body. Characters who require air immediately begin to suffocate. Natural flight through wings or buoyancy is not possible, but magical flight still works.
Delbert_Less 09-09-06, 04:16 AM	Such a creature wouldn't suffocate, but suffocation is not the only danger in a vacuum. The extremely low pressure presents other problems which can cause damage. Damage-wise, I'd just do a relatively simple abstraction: perhaps 2d6 points of bludgeoning damage per round, not unlike being deep underwater except that the damage is from low pressure rather than high. A character in vacuum cannot see or speak, and can only hear things in direct contact with his body. Characters who require air immediately begin to suffocate. Natural flight through wings or buoyancy is not possible, but magical flight still works. Pardon me, but you are wrong: there's nothing that can stop anyone from seeing in vacuum.
Rhialto 09-09-06, 06:09 AM	Pardon me, but you are wrong: there's nothing that can stop anyone from seeing in vacuum. Yes there is. Just not at first. Vacuum has a curious effect on the boiling point of liquids. When exposed to a vacuum, the boiling point of human body fluids drops to about -240 degrees celsius. This has a very bad effect on most membraneous organic structures, such as lungs, nose, mouth, and eyes. So, while you could keep your eyes open, if you have any expectation of getting out of that vacuum alive and value your eyesight, you'd keep your eyes shut rather tight. Dessicated eyes aren't much use to anyone, except possibly as a component in certain magical spells. I've no hard figures, but I'd guess that a couple of minutes exposure to hard vacuum with eyes open would do permanent harm to your eyesight from such dehydration, in the form of astigmatism and miscellaneous visual artifacts as teh eyeballs would probably rehydrate unevenly as they recover, losing their spherical shape necesssary for perfect visual acuity. Much longer than that would probably cause total vision loss for most practical purposes.
Delbert_Less 09-09-06, 06:27 AM	a couple of minutes exposure to hard vacuum with eyes open would do permanent harm to your eyesight Indeed! But there's nothing that can stop you from seeing everything for this couple of minutes... The vision would be blured, however.
Millennium 09-09-06, 11:06 AM	Pardon me, but you are wrong: there's nothing that can stop anyone from seeing in vacuum. ...other than the fact that keeping your eyes open in a vacuum would be really, really painful. I suppose it might not be a bad idea to allow some kind Wisdom check every round to let characters ignore the pain and open their eyes, but other than that instinct would simply be too strong: you have to keep your eyes closed.
Vengeblade 09-11-06, 05:17 AM	Actually the only liquid to boil would most likely be on your tongue. The reports from NASA state that your blood vessels can keep enough pressure on your blood to prevent it from reaching too low a boiling point. Once you pass out and then go into shock, then your pressure drops even more and boil away.
Grod_The_Giant 09-12-06, 09:38 AM	I would say that, exposed to a vacuum without any protection, breathing creatures die. You can argue about it, but I would estimate that within six seconds (a round) just about anything would die. That being said, in a magical universe, there are alternatives: (Note: not knowing the background, you might have to mess with my explanation of the history) Armor of the Void: history: crafted long ago by elven mages, this armor was intended to let creatures survive in the emptiness of space. Many copies were made before the program was abandoned. appearence: It looks like a cross between plate mail and a thicj coat- very thick, heavy fabric that covers the whole body. The helmet (which looks like a ski mask with eye covers) is screwed onto the neck. The whole assembly takes the same ammount of time as plate mail to put on. Due to it's thickness, it has (in addition to any armor worn under it), an AC bonus of 1, a maximum dex bonus of 4, armor check penalty of -4, arcane spell failure or 20% and weight of 20 pounds. powers: When worn (it can be worn over light and medium armor) it allows the wearer to survive in a vacuum. They are unaffected by extreme heat and cold, weightlessness, and lack of air. They can fly through space at a speed of 40 feet/ round. strong transmutation, caster level 1, craft wonderous item, endure elements, nothingness breathing, fly. price: 21,000 gold. Nothingness Breathing Transmutation Level: Cleric 4, Drd 4, Wiz/Sor 4 Components: S, M/DF Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Touch Target: Living creatures touched Duration: 2 hours/level Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless) Spell Resistance: yes (harmless) You, and living creatures touched can now breath and survive in a vacum for the duration of the spell. This spell does not enable creatures to move in zero gravity, such as in space. Arcane Material Component: A peice of black leather, usualy cured. Great spell. Just what you would need for an outer-space expadition in d&d.
Rhialto 09-12-06, 11:23 AM	Actually the only liquid to boil would most likely be on your tongue. The reports from NASA state that your blood vessels can keep enough pressure on your blood to prevent it from reaching too low a boiling point. Once you pass out and then go into shock, then your pressure drops even more and boil away. I'm not so sure about that. Any membraneous surface is vulnerable, or more specifically, any surface that the body will try to keep moist and would be damaged if allowed to dry out. The lining of tehmouth is somewhat questionable in that regard. The nose linings will be god for nosebleeds for quite a while afterwards, and the inside linings of your lung are there specifically to be single cell barriers of minimal thickness between blood and the air (now vacuum). Lungs are incrediubly vulnerable to damage from this kind of dessication. I'll admit to being a little more shaky on the vulnerability of the eyes, as a large portion of that isn't living cell tissue. Blood and other liquids in other areas are unlikely to boil away, as body tissues are sufficient to maintain pressure. It's only where the body naturally tries to maintain a wet surface that dessication poses a threat. I would say that, exposed to a vacuum without any protection, breathing creatures die. You can argue about it, but I would estimate that within six seconds (a round) just about anything would die. Nice try grod, but people have already survived exposure for longer than that with no lasting effects.
Legdiwena 09-14-06, 01:35 PM	The Answer From the now extinct page http://medlib/jsc.nasa.gov/intro/vacuum.html: How long can a human live unprotected in space? If you don't try to hold your breath, exposure to space for half a minute or so is unlikely to produce permanent injury. Holding your breath is likely to damage your lungs, something scuba divers have to watch out for when ascending, and you'll have eardrum trouble if your Eustachian tubes are badly plugged up, but theory predicts -- and animal experiments confirm -- that otherwise, exposure to vacuum causes no immediate injury. You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness. Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) start after ten seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from lack of oxygen. Injuries accumulate. After perhaps one or two minutes, you're dying. The limits are not really known. You do not explode and your blood does not boil because of the containing effect of your skin and circulatory system. You do not instantly freeze because, although the space environment is typically very cold, heat does not transfer away from a body quickly. Loss of consciousness occurs only after the body has depleted the supply of oxygen in the blood. If your skin is exposed to direct sunlight without any protection from its intense ultraviolet radiation, you can get a very bad sunburn. At NASA's Manned Spacecraft Center (now renamed Johnson Space Center) we had a test subject accidentally exposed to a near vacuum (less than 1 psi) in an incident involving a leaking space suit in a vacuum chamber back in '65. He remained conscious for about 14 seconds, which is about the time it takes for O2 deprived blood to go from the lungs to the brain. The suit probably did not reach a hard vacuum, and we began repressurizing the chamber within 15 seconds. The subject regained consciousness at around 15,000 feet equivalent altitude. The subject later reported that he could feel and hear the air leaking out, and his last conscious memory was of the water on his tongue beginning to boil. Aviation Week and Space Technology (02/13/95) printed a letter by Leonard Gordon which reported another vacuum-packed anecdote: "The experiment of exposing an unpressurized hand to near vacuum for a significant time while the pilot went about his business occurred in real life on Aug. 16, 1960. Joe Kittinger, during his ascent to 102,800 ft (19.5 miles) in an open gondola, lost pressurization of his right hand. He decided to continue the mission, and the hand became painful and useless as you would expect. However, once back to lower altitudes following his record-breaking parachute jump, the hand returned to normal."
Arkan_Shadesfire 09-22-06, 07:48 AM	A lot of good, scientific arguments here--but this is 3.5 D&D, where fire spells work just as well underwater as they do on land, gargantuan insects aren't crushed under the wieght of their exoskeletons, and physics as we know it never existed. The DMG has rules for suffocation, cold dangers, heat dangers, and extreme pressure at ocean depths. I'd just rule that extreme lack of pressure in D&D is just as bad and use those rules as needed. The key word there is in D&D--not in reality.
Seldriss 09-22-06, 08:08 AM	A lot of good, scientific arguments here--but this is 3.5 D&D, where fire spells work just as well underwater as they do on land, gargantuan insects aren't crushed under the wieght of their exoskeletons, and physics as we know it never existed. QFT Indeed, it was said a long time ago by the creators of the game that matter in D&D wasn't even made from atoms, but from elemental fragments.
Rhialto 09-23-06, 11:18 PM	Just to round off this discussion, D20 Future has some official rules on the matter of how long you can survive in a vacuum.