Variant Flight Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Variant Flight Rules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Archtyrant Terevoth
01-15-08, 04:17 PM The Problem:Well, quite simply, flight rules in D&D suck. We've got a 2-D battlemap, yet the flight rules pretend that it's 3-D. We have pretty much no rules to handle cone effects fired upwards or downwards at angles, except to do calculus and fire out the thing's area. We have weird things like maximum up angle of 60 degrees in the maneuverability listings. I mean, what the hell?

Yeah, a computer can do all that stuff fine, but I'm a real person. Screw that.

Archtyrant's Simplified Flight Rules

Basics: A flying creature has the following properties:

Normal DMG rules for maneuverability classes apply. This determines minimum forward speed, hover capability, moving backwards, reverse, Turn, turn in place and maximum turn. The rules for moving up and down are superceded by these rules.
A flying creature still takes up a space on the map, as though it were on the ground. Other creatures cannot stop in this space, but they may move through it freely.
A flying creature can move through other creature’s spaces.
A flying creature ignores penalties for unsteady ground.
Area effects, such as web or fog, affect flying creatures normally, assuming the effect is in their layer (see layers below).
Unless a flying creature is hovering or has perfect manueverability, it does not threaten an area.
A flying creature generally cannot be attacked with melee attacks by a non-flying creature.

Layers: Instead of a specific altitude in feet, flying creatures are going to be assigned a flight layer. The three basic layers are: low, medium, high.
A layer is a specific level on the battlemap. The exact altitude is unimportant, but generally layers go in blocks of approximately 50 ft. When indoors, you may have a maximum layer based on the ceiling. Sometimes you may not be able to fly at all. Don’t worry if you happen to make a layer only 30 ft or 70 ft above another layer, it really doesn’t matter.

Low Layer: You are flying somewhat off the ground, barely out of melee range. This is the default layer of flight and is the same layer as normal ground creatures for the purposes of spells. That is, an area spell affects you normally on this layer, and there’s no added range for ranged attacks. In most respects, you’re treated exactly like a ground creature.
Medium layer: You are some 50 ft off the ground or so. A creature in the medium layer is on a separate plane as far as area spells are concerned. Thus you can fire a spell into the medium layer, but it won’t affect the low or high layers. If you target the low layer, it won’t affect the medium layer.
High Layer: You are some 100 ft or so off the ground. This is treated as another separate layer for area spells.
Other Layers: You can add as many other layers as necessary if you have truly high flying fliers. Each layer can just be labeled High+1, High+2 and so forth. Each is treated as it’s own layer for spell effects. Also you may want to add in lower layers, to represent chasms and the like. These can be Low –1, low-2 and so forth. They work exactly like normal layers do.

Changing Layers: Moving between layers requires a special move action used solely for this purpose. If you are going up, it does not count towards your normal lateral movement to maintain your maneuverability. Thus unless you have perfect maneuverability you must usually double move. Going down fulfills your normal movement and thus you may choose to dive straight down if you choose, even doing a double move to cover two layers.

Ground Flying: If you are in the low layer, you may choose to skim the ground instead of flying slightly above melee range. Sometimes due to a low ceiling you are forced to use ground flying. If you do this, foes cannot move through your space (as though you were a ground creature), and you can be targeted normally with melee attacks. Switching from ground flying to normal flight is done as part of normal movement, but does not cost you anything, you may do so freely as part of your movement.

Hovering: A hovering creature threatens an area as normal. Note that to threaten ground targets, you must be using ground flying. Otherwise, you cannot threaten targets in the same layer.

Perfect Maneuverability: A creature with perfect maneuverability threatens an area as normal. Note that to threaten ground targets, you must be using ground flying. Otherwise, you cannot threaten targets in the same layer.

Melee While Flying:
While attacking something on the same layer, you provoke attacks of opportunity from it as normal.
If you wish to melee attack a creature that is ground-based, you become vulnerable to melee attacks during your action, as though you were ground flying. At the end of your action this immunity fades. Thus a creature with a longspear may be able to stab you before you approach, even though you happen to be flying. Assuming his reach exceeds yours.

Charging While Flying: As part of a charge, a creature can descend up to two layers (suffering the usual penalties and bonus. It may move up to twice its movement on the map while doing this. If you have perfect maneuverability, you may charge upwards. Otherwise, you cannot charge up layers.

Ranged attacks over multiple layers: When firing a ranged attack, it suffers no penalty it is treated as being an extra 50 ft distance if fired from a higher layer and an extra 100 ft distance if fired from a lower layer. This is cumulative per layer. So firing from low to high counts as a 200 ft distance. This is not true distance, but rather distance used to determine range increment, as it is harder to fire a weapon upwards than downwards.

Spells onto different layers: Each layer counts as 50 ft for purposes of spell effects. Thus you must add another 50 ft to your spell range to try to reach a layer up or down. Firing from the low to the high layer requires an extra 100 ft of range, more so than the battlemap would show.
For area spells, radius spells are unchanged when fired from different layers. Line spells always strike only a single creature, since they travel at layers at an angle.
Cone spells become burst spells with a radius of 25 ft per layer traversed (assuming the cone can even reach that far). If you’re worried about a cone passing through multiple layers, a cone creates two areas of effect, effectively two bursts (each with a radius of 25 ft per layer traversed). The first cone occurs at half the distance of the second cone. So if you fired a 120 ft cone from the low layer to the high layer at a target 20 ft north. There would be a burst on the medium layer centered 10 ft north of you, with a radius of 25 ft. On the high layer, there would be a burst centered 20 ft away from you, with a radius of 50 ft.
Cones require a length of at least 60 ft or 120 ft to reach up or down one layer, respectively.

Layer Offset: Sometimes a given piece of terrain may have a layer offset. This means that you add or subtract one from the basic layers. Low becomes medium, medium becomes high. For instance, a tower may have a layer offset of +1. This means that a creature standing on the tower is considered to be at the medium layer. Similarly, a 40 ft deep pit may have an offset of –1. So a creature in the pit would be considered to be at layer low-1.

Stacked Layers (variant): For ease of play, creatures in different layers still take up battlemap space, so that it is not ever necessary for two miniatures to become stacked which makes life easier. However, in certain battles, like fighting in a long vertical shaft, it may become necessary to have minis be over or under each other in layers. This is a special case that the DM may choose to implement.
dengarbountyhunter
01-22-08, 10:56 PM What really bugs me:

WHY THE HELL are there "Turn", "turn in place" and "maximum turn" options!?

For example:
1) a creature with an average flight maneuverability can "turn" (45° after 5 ft) or "maximum turn" (90° on a single square).
2) a creature with a good maneuverability can spend 5 ft of movement to "turn in place" (max 90°) or "maximum turn" (any angle).

What the funk?!?

Back on topic: I don't like your rules, simply because 50-ft thick layers are too vague. The 3-D component isn't that hard to use anyway, just take 15 minutes and draw all the "up angles", "down angles" and "between down and up" for each maneuverability and you can just refer to these drawings in the future. What I do to represent altititude is I use modelling clay (make a kind of pillar on which sits the flying creature) and note the actual height (because modelling clay isn't that accurate). I use modelling clay for pretty much anything in fact :).
True, it bugs me when a flying creature stops over another one. But D&D IS a game that needs visualisation.
Vindiction7
01-28-08, 12:02 PM The Problem:Well, quite simply, flight rules in D&D suck. We've got a 2-D battlemap, yet the flight rules pretend that it's 3-D. We have pretty much no rules to handle cone effects fired upwards or downwards at angles, except to do calculus and fire out the thing's area. We have weird things like maximum up angle of 60 degrees in the maneuverability listings. I mean, what the hell?

Don't be silly, Trigonometry works just fine! :P

Yeah, a computer can do all that stuff fine, but I'm a real person. Screw that.
Hah, what do you think the odds are that WotC won't be smart enough to make their D&D computer program do it either? And then try to sell us a game table 1.5 that only fixes that one small, specialized issue of the game at the cost of buying all our digital upgrade dealies again?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Archtyrant Terevoth 01-15-08, 04:17 PM	The Problem:Well, quite simply, flight rules in D&D suck. We've got a 2-D battlemap, yet the flight rules pretend that it's 3-D. We have pretty much no rules to handle cone effects fired upwards or downwards at angles, except to do calculus and fire out the thing's area. We have weird things like maximum up angle of 60 degrees in the maneuverability listings. I mean, what the hell? Yeah, a computer can do all that stuff fine, but I'm a real person. Screw that. Archtyrant's Simplified Flight Rules Basics: A flying creature has the following properties: Normal DMG rules for maneuverability classes apply. This determines minimum forward speed, hover capability, moving backwards, reverse, Turn, turn in place and maximum turn. The rules for moving up and down are superceded by these rules. A flying creature still takes up a space on the map, as though it were on the ground. Other creatures cannot stop in this space, but they may move through it freely. A flying creature can move through other creature’s spaces. A flying creature ignores penalties for unsteady ground. Area effects, such as web or fog, affect flying creatures normally, assuming the effect is in their layer (see layers below). Unless a flying creature is hovering or has perfect manueverability, it does not threaten an area. A flying creature generally cannot be attacked with melee attacks by a non-flying creature. Layers: Instead of a specific altitude in feet, flying creatures are going to be assigned a flight layer. The three basic layers are: low, medium, high. A layer is a specific level on the battlemap. The exact altitude is unimportant, but generally layers go in blocks of approximately 50 ft. When indoors, you may have a maximum layer based on the ceiling. Sometimes you may not be able to fly at all. Don’t worry if you happen to make a layer only 30 ft or 70 ft above another layer, it really doesn’t matter. Low Layer: You are flying somewhat off the ground, barely out of melee range. This is the default layer of flight and is the same layer as normal ground creatures for the purposes of spells. That is, an area spell affects you normally on this layer, and there’s no added range for ranged attacks. In most respects, you’re treated exactly like a ground creature. Medium layer: You are some 50 ft off the ground or so. A creature in the medium layer is on a separate plane as far as area spells are concerned. Thus you can fire a spell into the medium layer, but it won’t affect the low or high layers. If you target the low layer, it won’t affect the medium layer. High Layer: You are some 100 ft or so off the ground. This is treated as another separate layer for area spells. Other Layers: You can add as many other layers as necessary if you have truly high flying fliers. Each layer can just be labeled High+1, High+2 and so forth. Each is treated as it’s own layer for spell effects. Also you may want to add in lower layers, to represent chasms and the like. These can be Low –1, low-2 and so forth. They work exactly like normal layers do. Changing Layers: Moving between layers requires a special move action used solely for this purpose. If you are going up, it does not count towards your normal lateral movement to maintain your maneuverability. Thus unless you have perfect maneuverability you must usually double move. Going down fulfills your normal movement and thus you may choose to dive straight down if you choose, even doing a double move to cover two layers. Ground Flying: If you are in the low layer, you may choose to skim the ground instead of flying slightly above melee range. Sometimes due to a low ceiling you are forced to use ground flying. If you do this, foes cannot move through your space (as though you were a ground creature), and you can be targeted normally with melee attacks. Switching from ground flying to normal flight is done as part of normal movement, but does not cost you anything, you may do so freely as part of your movement. Hovering: A hovering creature threatens an area as normal. Note that to threaten ground targets, you must be using ground flying. Otherwise, you cannot threaten targets in the same layer. Perfect Maneuverability: A creature with perfect maneuverability threatens an area as normal. Note that to threaten ground targets, you must be using ground flying. Otherwise, you cannot threaten targets in the same layer. Melee While Flying: While attacking something on the same layer, you provoke attacks of opportunity from it as normal. If you wish to melee attack a creature that is ground-based, you become vulnerable to melee attacks during your action, as though you were ground flying. At the end of your action this immunity fades. Thus a creature with a longspear may be able to stab you before you approach, even though you happen to be flying. Assuming his reach exceeds yours. Charging While Flying: As part of a charge, a creature can descend up to two layers (suffering the usual penalties and bonus. It may move up to twice its movement on the map while doing this. If you have perfect maneuverability, you may charge upwards. Otherwise, you cannot charge up layers. Ranged attacks over multiple layers: When firing a ranged attack, it suffers no penalty it is treated as being an extra 50 ft distance if fired from a higher layer and an extra 100 ft distance if fired from a lower layer. This is cumulative per layer. So firing from low to high counts as a 200 ft distance. This is not true distance, but rather distance used to determine range increment, as it is harder to fire a weapon upwards than downwards. Spells onto different layers: Each layer counts as 50 ft for purposes of spell effects. Thus you must add another 50 ft to your spell range to try to reach a layer up or down. Firing from the low to the high layer requires an extra 100 ft of range, more so than the battlemap would show. For area spells, radius spells are unchanged when fired from different layers. Line spells always strike only a single creature, since they travel at layers at an angle. Cone spells become burst spells with a radius of 25 ft per layer traversed (assuming the cone can even reach that far). If you’re worried about a cone passing through multiple layers, a cone creates two areas of effect, effectively two bursts (each with a radius of 25 ft per layer traversed). The first cone occurs at half the distance of the second cone. So if you fired a 120 ft cone from the low layer to the high layer at a target 20 ft north. There would be a burst on the medium layer centered 10 ft north of you, with a radius of 25 ft. On the high layer, there would be a burst centered 20 ft away from you, with a radius of 50 ft. Cones require a length of at least 60 ft or 120 ft to reach up or down one layer, respectively. Layer Offset: Sometimes a given piece of terrain may have a layer offset. This means that you add or subtract one from the basic layers. Low becomes medium, medium becomes high. For instance, a tower may have a layer offset of +1. This means that a creature standing on the tower is considered to be at the medium layer. Similarly, a 40 ft deep pit may have an offset of –1. So a creature in the pit would be considered to be at layer low-1. Stacked Layers (variant): For ease of play, creatures in different layers still take up battlemap space, so that it is not ever necessary for two miniatures to become stacked which makes life easier. However, in certain battles, like fighting in a long vertical shaft, it may become necessary to have minis be over or under each other in layers. This is a special case that the DM may choose to implement.
dengarbountyhunter 01-22-08, 10:56 PM	What really bugs me: WHY THE HELL are there "Turn", "turn in place" and "maximum turn" options!? For example: 1) a creature with an average flight maneuverability can "turn" (45° after 5 ft) or "maximum turn" (90° on a single square). 2) a creature with a good maneuverability can spend 5 ft of movement to "turn in place" (max 90°) or "maximum turn" (any angle). What the funk?!? Back on topic: I don't like your rules, simply because 50-ft thick layers are too vague. The 3-D component isn't that hard to use anyway, just take 15 minutes and draw all the "up angles", "down angles" and "between down and up" for each maneuverability and you can just refer to these drawings in the future. What I do to represent altititude is I use modelling clay (make a kind of pillar on which sits the flying creature) and note the actual height (because modelling clay isn't that accurate). I use modelling clay for pretty much anything in fact :). True, it bugs me when a flying creature stops over another one. But D&D IS a game that needs visualisation.
Vindiction7 01-28-08, 12:02 PM	The Problem:Well, quite simply, flight rules in D&D suck. We've got a 2-D battlemap, yet the flight rules pretend that it's 3-D. We have pretty much no rules to handle cone effects fired upwards or downwards at angles, except to do calculus and fire out the thing's area. We have weird things like maximum up angle of 60 degrees in the maneuverability listings. I mean, what the hell? Don't be silly, Trigonometry works just fine! :P Yeah, a computer can do all that stuff fine, but I'm a real person. Screw that. Hah, what do you think the odds are that WotC won't be smart enough to make their D&D computer program do it either? And then try to sell us a game table 1.5 that only fixes that one small, specialized issue of the game at the cost of buying all our digital upgrade dealies again?