Variant Rogue question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Variant Rogue question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
masterofmayhem
06-06-04, 08:58 PM Well, a friend of mine was curious as to whether or not the variant rogue class (from Unearthed Arcana) who trades sneak attack for fighter feats gets access to the fighter-only feats (weapon specialization, greater weapon focus, and greater weapon specialization). We are of two minds on this, so help would be appreciated.

Also, on another (mostly) unrelated topic, does a rogue have to make a hide/move silently check while attacking? For example, if Bob the rogue sneaks up behind a kobold, and said kobold already failed his spot/listen checks, does Bob have to make another hide/move silently check at –20 (because he is attacking)? Or does the PH mean that the –20 to hide while attacking is while you’re already in a big fight?

EDIT: Here's his reasoning on why variant rogues should get access to the feats:
1) PH was made without UA and variant rogues in mind.
2) Without access to the feats, VR's are exceedingly weak and useless.
3) Their description says they get bonus feats "as the fighter," so they should be able to get any feat a fighter can get.
Contrast
06-06-04, 09:11 PM Citing the Psychic Warrior (Expand Psionics Handbook version) as an example, no.

It would seem appropriate that only Fighters recieve Fighter-Only feats.
DragonWatcher
06-06-04, 09:34 PM Nope, the variant rogue from UA does not get access to Fighter-Only feats. He may get fighter-style bonus feats, but he's still not a fighter.

As far as your hide question...

If you remain hidden while approaching a target, and attack on a turn that you began hidden, there is no additional Hide roll or penalty to your check. However, if you wish to remain hidden while you attack (so that neither your victim, nor his buddies really know for sure where you are), you must make a hide check as part of that round (at -20). Hiding in this way is a move equivalent action (based off the sniping rules), and therefore you may only make a single attack when attempting to remain hidden.

Your other option is to attack, retreat, find cover or concealment, hide again, creep up, attack, repeat.
Commander of Chaos
06-10-04, 09:05 PM i agree with my opinion
masterofmayhem
06-10-04, 11:33 PM What was your opinion? I don't remember . . .
BTW, is there any chance of getting a definitive answer via actual written rules? Anyone know of where some might be?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
masterofmayhem 06-06-04, 08:58 PM	Well, a friend of mine was curious as to whether or not the variant rogue class (from Unearthed Arcana) who trades sneak attack for fighter feats gets access to the fighter-only feats (weapon specialization, greater weapon focus, and greater weapon specialization). We are of two minds on this, so help would be appreciated. Also, on another (mostly) unrelated topic, does a rogue have to make a hide/move silently check while attacking? For example, if Bob the rogue sneaks up behind a kobold, and said kobold already failed his spot/listen checks, does Bob have to make another hide/move silently check at –20 (because he is attacking)? Or does the PH mean that the –20 to hide while attacking is while you’re already in a big fight? EDIT: Here's his reasoning on why variant rogues should get access to the feats: 1) PH was made without UA and variant rogues in mind. 2) Without access to the feats, VR's are exceedingly weak and useless. 3) Their description says they get bonus feats "as the fighter," so they should be able to get any feat a fighter can get.
Contrast 06-06-04, 09:11 PM	Citing the Psychic Warrior (Expand Psionics Handbook version) as an example, no. It would seem appropriate that only Fighters recieve Fighter-Only feats.
DragonWatcher 06-06-04, 09:34 PM	Nope, the variant rogue from UA does not get access to Fighter-Only feats. He may get fighter-style bonus feats, but he's still not a fighter. As far as your hide question... If you remain hidden while approaching a target, and attack on a turn that you began hidden, there is no additional Hide roll or penalty to your check. However, if you wish to remain hidden while you attack (so that neither your victim, nor his buddies really know for sure where you are), you must make a hide check as part of that round (at -20). Hiding in this way is a move equivalent action (based off the sniping rules), and therefore you may only make a single attack when attempting to remain hidden. Your other option is to attack, retreat, find cover or concealment, hide again, creep up, attack, repeat.
Commander of Chaos 06-10-04, 09:05 PM	i agree with my opinion
masterofmayhem 06-10-04, 11:33 PM	What was your opinion? I don't remember . . . BTW, is there any chance of getting a definitive answer via actual written rules? Anyone know of where some might be?