Variant to Sneak Attack/Crit Ummunity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Variant to Sneak Attack/Crit Ummunity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
anonicon
02-25-08, 03:13 PM Hey-o,

For 3.5 creatures/monsters that are normally immune to criticals or sneak attacks, how much would recommend reducing their CR by if you remove the immunity?

For example, per the SRD, undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures are immune to crits/S.A. If a monster had a CR of 10 or less, would you reduce its CR by 1, 2, or 3, or a set %, assuming all else about the monster is the same?

Thank you for any help.

Chuck
anonicon
02-26-08, 05:28 PM :bump:

Ideas?
Tequila_Sunrise
02-26-08, 07:35 PM Hmm, that's tough because crits don't actually happen very often (except maybe in high level 3.0) and immunity to sneak attacks is such a situational ability. I'd say from CRs 1-10, lower them by 1, and then CRs 11-20, lower them by 2.

Alternatively, there are simpler ways of allowing rogues to be useful against crit-immune critters, if that is what you're trying to do. There's an alternate class ability in the Dungeonomicon that allows a rogue to trade his Trapsense progression for the ability to deal half sneak attack damage against all creatures who are normally immune to such.

Hope that helps,
TS
skywyze
03-04-08, 06:27 PM I simply removed all inherent sneak attack and crit immunities from monster types and gave those monster types maximum hit points for every hit die. This was done because sneak attack is as useful as the balls on a christmas tree at higher levels - everyone and their mom is immune. This way, the only ones who'd be immune are those who actually paid for it: Fighters in Heavy Fortification armor and casters under the effect of spells that specifically state they protect against such things. Liches can cast the spells to achieve that effect and tanks can achieve it as well, but it's no longer free. And sneak attacks are now incredibly useful, due to the massive hit point pools of these creatures.

Any effect that would give the monster a constitution score also removes their ability to get maximum hit points every level as well, as a counter-balance. It's worked extremely well so far and has caused some very good teamwork between the cleric and rogue (Turn Undead + Sneak attack, repeat).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
anonicon 02-25-08, 03:13 PM	Hey-o, For 3.5 creatures/monsters that are normally immune to criticals or sneak attacks, how much would recommend reducing their CR by if you remove the immunity? For example, per the SRD, undead, constructs, oozes, plants, and incorporeal creatures are immune to crits/S.A. If a monster had a CR of 10 or less, would you reduce its CR by 1, 2, or 3, or a set %, assuming all else about the monster is the same? Thank you for any help. Chuck
anonicon 02-26-08, 05:28 PM	:bump: Ideas?
Tequila_Sunrise 02-26-08, 07:35 PM	Hmm, that's tough because crits don't actually happen very often (except maybe in high level 3.0) and immunity to sneak attacks is such a situational ability. I'd say from CRs 1-10, lower them by 1, and then CRs 11-20, lower them by 2. Alternatively, there are simpler ways of allowing rogues to be useful against crit-immune critters, if that is what you're trying to do. There's an alternate class ability in the Dungeonomicon that allows a rogue to trade his Trapsense progression for the ability to deal half sneak attack damage against all creatures who are normally immune to such. Hope that helps, TS
skywyze 03-04-08, 06:27 PM	I simply removed all inherent sneak attack and crit immunities from monster types and gave those monster types maximum hit points for every hit die. This was done because sneak attack is as useful as the balls on a christmas tree at higher levels - everyone and their mom is immune. This way, the only ones who'd be immune are those who actually paid for it: Fighters in Heavy Fortification armor and casters under the effect of spells that specifically state they protect against such things. Liches can cast the spells to achieve that effect and tanks can achieve it as well, but it's no longer free. And sneak attacks are now incredibly useful, due to the massive hit point pools of these creatures. Any effect that would give the monster a constitution score also removes their ability to get maximum hit points every level as well, as a counter-balance. It's worked extremely well so far and has caused some very good teamwork between the cleric and rogue (Turn Undead + Sneak attack, repeat).