Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grammaticus 02-27-06, 12:18 AM	The variant turning rules (destruction of the undead) allow for a cleric to inflict damage of 1d6 per level to all undead within 30 feet. No restriction on Hit Die, they can save with a will DC of 10 plus cleric level plus cha bonus. Now, under the Sun domain the granted power is greater turning and it allows the cleric to destroy undead rather than turn them as normal. How do you handle a cleric using the granted power of the sun domain while using the variant rule in CD? It is too powerful to just let them destroy all undead within 30 feet rather than cause damage as the variant rule allows on a turn attempt. This would unbalance an encounter with a particularly powerful undead NPC, allowing an instant kill.
Oneiros 02-27-06, 02:22 PM	How do you handle a cleric using the granted power of the sun domain while using the variant rule in CD? It is too powerful to just let them destroy all undead within 30 feet rather than cause damage as the variant rule allows on a turn attempt. This would unbalance an encounter with a particularly powerful undead NPC, allowing an instant kill.Right now I'm treating it as being able to use the Empower Turning feat on one turn attempt per day, which increases the damage by 50%. That may be a little powerful, though, so I've been thinking of maybe giving them +1d6 damage at first level, and then another +1d6 at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th levels, but the bonus applies to all turn attempts.
Mist of Shadows 02-27-06, 03:28 PM	From a players point of view dropping somethign from I get some benifit all the time from a granted ability to I get some bonus once a day stinks. Sun priests should be a force of destruction when it comes to undead.
ChimericalWolf 02-27-06, 03:53 PM	From a players point of view dropping somethign from I get some benifit all the time from a granted ability to I get some bonus once a day stinks. Sun priests should be a force of destruction when it comes to undead. Uh, Sun priests only Greater Turn once/day, buddy. I'd say the Sun domain allows the cleric to make one Greater Turning once/day. Just use the regular turning rules, and make it a Greater. Describe it the same way you do the damage turning, but more flashy.
Oneiros 02-27-06, 04:14 PM	I'd say the Sun domain allows the cleric to make one Greater Turning once/day. Just use the regular turning rules, and make it a Greater. Describe it the same way you do the damage turning, but more flashy.Not sure what you mean, CW. How would you "make it a Greater" with the d6/level damage rule? Per the SRD (emphasis mine):Once per day, you can perform a greater turning against undead in place of a regular turning. The greater turning is like a normal turning except that the undead creatures that would be turned are destroyed instead.How do you identify those creatures that "would be turned" under the variant?
ChimericalWolf 02-27-06, 05:38 PM	Mrr, what I mean to say is once/day, allow the Sun priest to ignore the Turning Damage Variant. Once/day, the Sun priest makes a turning check, straight from the PHB, and destroys all the undead who're affected. So, for the sake of an ability that modifys turning, suspend the Turning Damage Variant.
Grammaticus 02-27-06, 06:19 PM	Mrr, what I mean to say is once/day, allow the Sun priest to ignore the Turning Damage Variant. Once/day, the Sun priest makes a turning check, straight from the PHB, and destroys all the undead who're affected. So, for the sake of an ability that modifys turning, suspend the Turning Damage Variant. Personally I like this way of handling it too. It is one of two ways I was looking at doing it. The other would be to let the priest use 1d8 damage once/day as well. But, by just using the normal core rules, it keeps the ability balanced and since you don't have to convert it, then no one can really feel like they were robbed and we don't have to deal with making it over powered. Actually we have a Cleric and a Paladin that are using it. In a pinch last session, we just let them add 3d6 to the turn attempt (mimicked the Exalted Turning feat) and decided to review for a long term solution. The players with the ability don't think that is strong enough and the power end of the spectrum thought she should be able to destroy all undead withing 30 feet regardless of HD. I think there will be debate as the Cleric and Paladin want to only use damage versus conventional turn. I'm not the DM, so it will be his call. He just is not a big rules guy and is pretty easy going. We may have to settle on the 1d8 conversion. I just thing and extra 18 points damage to all undead within 30 feet at 13th level is too much. It may just be a case of finding myself in a high power game and that not really being the kind of game I like best. I thought I would ask to see if anyone else had come across this problem. Thanks and if anyone has other ideas, please do post.
Mist of Shadows 02-28-06, 01:03 AM	Yeah well I wasn't reading things well enough. The best is probably to just have it distroy the undead like in the old system.
Oneiros 02-28-06, 09:16 AM	Mrr, what I mean to say is once/day, allow the Sun priest to ignore the Turning Damage Variant. Once/day, the Sun priest makes a turning check, straight from the PHB, and destroys all the undead who're affected. So, for the sake of an ability that modifys turning, suspend the Turning Damage Variant.The only catch with mixing the two is, if there are any undead in the area which the Sun priest fails to turn, those undead suffer no effect whatsoever. With the variant they would a least suffer half damage on a successful save. I mean, that's really the reason for the variant, to avoid the all or nothing effect of the core mechanic. I think some method of allowing a once-a-day damage increase is probably the best method. Using d8's is only going to increase average damage by 1 point per die. Alternately, the Sun domain could give a bonus on the Save DC against the turning damage, like +4, so there's a much better chance that the undead will take full damage.