Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dragonwriter 12-01-05, 11:52 AM	Some of my friends voiced a complaint about the system of rolling a single die every level to calculate your HP. Constitution modifier or no constitution modifier, no one likes to have their Barbarian roll a 1 when he reaches level 2. To help with this, I thought up the following variant: For all effects dealing with a creature's number of hit dice (such as spell which affect so many hit dice worth of creatures), treat hit dice rules as per normal. However, during the actual process of rolling Hit Dice, the player may choose any of the following combinations of dice rolls to roll with: Class levels with d4 Hit Dice: 1d4. Class levels with d6 Hit Dice: 1d6 or 2d3. Class levels with d8 Hit Dice: 1d8 or 2d4. Class levels with d10 Hit Dice: 1d10 or 2d5. Class levels with d12 Hit Dice: 1d12, 2d6, or 3d4. To roll a d3, roll a d6 the indicated number of times, dividing by half each time, and add the results. To roll a d5, roll a d10 the indicated number of times, dividing by half each time, and add the results. Behind the Curtain The more dice the player chooses to roll, the higher their guaranteed minimum Hit Points for that round are, but also the less likely it is for them to roll their maximum HP that round. In the end, the more dice they roll, the more likely they are to roll towards the average. Note that there are no calculations for using d2s, since doing so would mean flipping a coin and getting either 1 or 2 HP out of it, a system which would, mathematically speaking, ensure the character at LEAST half their possible maximum HP for that level, and which, mathematically speaking, would be more likely to get them, on average, 75% of their possible HP. This system DOES increase character strength slightly, since the overall average roll is slightly higher than half, thanks to bell-curve probability, but I personally don't think it increases strength so much as to be completely broken. Questions? Comments? Dumb remarks?
Jerks 12-01-05, 01:55 PM	Hmm, I'm taking 12d1 everytime. I can see what you meant, but technically a 12d1 would give you 12 hit point everytime. As a DM, I as generous with hit points as I tend to throw everything and the kitchen sink at the players...they need all the help they can get. I've used a number of methods in the past. d4 = take roll d6 = reroll 1's d8 = reroll 1's & 2's d10 = reroll 1's, 2's & 3's d12 = reroll 1's, 2's, 3's & 4's In the current campaign, at level-up the GM and player both roll one hit die and the player takes the better result.
Gilean 12-01-05, 02:31 PM	What Jerks said. You effectively give maximum hit points for each hit die. One solution; after rolling the hit points, the player can choose to reroll it with a die one category lower. So, a barbarian rolls 3 hit points. He can reroll it with a d10. Result: 1. Reroll with a d8. 5. Be happy and smile. You can include or not include d3 and d2. Your call. One option is letting toughness (the underpowered one) give the ability to reroll, instead of taking it for granted.
Dragonwriter 12-01-05, 06:20 PM	Hmm, I'm taking 12d1 everytime. I can see what you meant, but technically a 12d1 would give you 12 hit point everytime. How so? You take a coin (or 12 coins), pick a side and either flip it twelve times (if you have one coin), or throw all the coins into the air. If you picked Heads, the number of Heads that you got is how many HP you earned that level. With THAT being the d1 system, you don't gain a minimum of 1HP per coin thrown, so how are you guaranteed to get 12HP every time? In point of fact, you're ALMOST guaranteed to get exactly the average number of HP, since there are so many "dice" thrown. *confused*
Otherguy 12-01-05, 06:32 PM	How so? You take a coin (or 12 coins), pick a side and either flip it twelve times (if you have one coin), or throw all the coins into the air. If you picked Heads, the number of Heads that you got is how many HP you earned that level. With THAT being the d1 system, you don't gain a minimum of 1HP per coin thrown, so how are you guaranteed to get 12HP every time? In point of fact, you're ALMOST guaranteed to get exactly the average number of HP, since there are so many "dice" thrown. *confused* A coin is a d2. It has two sides. One side is worth 1 and one is worth 2. A d1 would only have one side, and it would only be worth 1. Dice generally don't have a 0 side, and the 0 on a d10 stands for 10. Characters aren't able to gain NO hit points on a die. My old group used a rule that I loved. You'd roll your die and either your DM or another player would roll another one behind a screen or their hand. Then you pick either the one you can see or the one you can't. If I roll a 1 I'll obviously take the one behind the hand. As a variant of that variant, you're not allowed to take 1s. If you roll a 2 and the DM a 1 you take the 2. If you both roll 1s you both reroll. Of course, if you roll a 3 and take the DMs roll and he rolls a 2 you're stuck with the 2.
Dragonwriter 12-01-05, 08:39 PM	I understand the problem, now. Geez, I figured this would be easier. Oh well.
Jerks 12-01-05, 10:53 PM	As I said in my first post, I understood what you meant by a d1, but existing D&D terminology would indicate a d1 as having only 1 side. Yours is probably more "officially" a d2-1. :) With that said, I don't know if I'd bother with the pennies. If a player wants that option just go ahead and let them take one-half the max roll. This variant for fixed h.p. per level can be found in the DMG. I'm a fan of simplicity so having to choose with die to roll seems a bit too complex. I'd just pick one die or combo of dice for each die and stick with it. So maybe, d4 = 1d4 d6 = 2d3 d8 = 2d4 d10 = 2d5 d12 = 3d4 This will eliminate the chance of rolling a 1 (for every except wizards) and trend the hit point to be slightly better than the existing average.
Thelon Fairblade 12-02-05, 09:22 AM	We use these methods: 1) You roll, GM rolls hidden. You choose. 2) Flat rate: don't roll, just take 50%. (higher power games, 75%). 3) Toughness: in addition to the +3hp, you automatically get max hp on your *next* level's hp. We thought about combining all of the above. Each level, you can either take 75%, or do the "pick best of two rolls"; if you don't like the result, you get 50%. Didn't do this... everyone said they'd just take 75% and be done with it.
Tyler Do'Urden 12-02-05, 04:48 PM	Why not just reroll 1s? No elaborate reworking of the hit point rules, just reroll 1s. Simplify.
Dragonwriter 12-03-05, 11:12 AM	Because a 2 isn't that great of an improvement for a d10 or d12 Hit Dice character. Though I like Jerk's idea. The whole point is not to completely eliminate the possibility of low rolls, simply to make them less likely. Made some slight changes now, btw.
Tenzhi 12-03-05, 11:22 AM	You could just reroll 1s for d4s and d6s, 1s and 2s for d8s and d10s, and 1-3 for d12.
KhalaKyRelai 12-03-05, 08:49 PM	for the game i'm dming right now, i just give max hp for the first few hit dice rather than just one. maybe up to five. maybe every other level to do a little balancing, or perhaps as follows: Level 1 - Max HP Level 2 - Max HP Level 3 - Roll and keep Level 4 - Max HP Level 5 - Roll and keep Level 6 - Roll and keep Level 7 - Max HP 8, 9, 10 - Roll and keep etc. this could stop after a while.
lostone 12-05-05, 09:30 AM	d4 = take roll d6 = reroll 1's d8 = reroll 1's & 2's d10 = reroll 1's, 2's & 3's d12 = reroll 1's, 2's, 3's & 4'sI'd prefer something like this. Or let them roll the normal roll and if they are not happy with it they can choose to take the average roll for that die type -.5 (round down). So everyone would have at least average hitpoints for there character unless they roll badly every level and opt for the average rounded down. (Example: Barb rolls his d12 and gets a 2, he opts to take the average rounded down which is a 6). How so? You take a coin (or 12 coins), pick a side and either flip it twelve times (if you have one coin), or throw all the coins into the air. If you picked Heads, the number of Heads that you got is how many HP you earned that level. With THAT being the d1 system, you don't gain a minimum of 1HP per coin thrown, so how are you guaranteed to get 12HP every time? In point of fact, you're ALMOST guaranteed to get exactly the average number of HP, since there are so many "dice" thrown.As stated previously a coin is a d2 (two sides). A d1 is a marble/ball/sphere. A sphere only has 1 side. :D
Millennium 12-05-05, 07:23 PM	The way I do it is that you can reroll your Hit Die as many times as you want per level, but each roll has a -X penalty, where X is the number of times you've already rolled. The first roll, therefore, is at no penalty. If you don't like the result, you can reroll at a -1. If you don't like that result, you can reroll at -2. Minimum 1 HP per level, of course, and you can keep rerolling until either you accept the result or you can't get anything but a 1.
Kalriem 12-05-05, 08:03 PM	I like my variant: You can't roll lower than your Constitution modifier. If you do, you reroll. The exception to this is those who have Con mods larger than their max HP. In that case, just take the roll.
FlameLover 12-05-05, 08:15 PM	I like the way they do it in Iron Heroes, d4 = d4+0/level d6 = d4+2/level d8 = d4+4/level d10 = d4+6/level d12 = d4+8/level This is a good boost for melee characters so overall helps fighters/barbarians mostly (although monsters would GREATLY benefit).
Jerks 12-05-05, 09:08 PM	I like the Iron Heroes method. Quick and easy, and it nets the players the benefits of the die they are taking the class for. When you really think about it, rolling hit points doesn't make sense from all other design stand points of the d20 system. In every instance I can think of class abilities are just given flat-out. A rogue doesn't have to roll 1d8 for his skill points each round, so why should a fighter have to roll 1d10 for his hit points? For something so VITAL to the fighting classes it seems just wrong to have them risk rolling a 1's and 2's for a couple of levels and thus being totally gimp. Man, I never really looked at it like that before. I think the traditional method for rolling hit points may be one of those hold-overs from 2nd ed, that maybe should of gone the way of ThAC0.
Gilean 12-07-05, 11:38 AM	I like my variant: You can't roll lower than your Constitution modifier. If you do, you reroll. The exception to this is those who have Con mods larger than their max HP. In that case, just take the roll.So, a rogue with 20 con rerolls until a 6 comes up, but one with 24 con just takes the roll? Does not make sense to me. Or am I misunderstanding?
lostone 12-07-05, 11:44 AM	So, a rogue with 20 con rerolls until a 6 comes up, but one with 24 con just takes the roll? Does not make sense to me. Or am I misunderstanding?I think he meant that you just assume you roll a six. But that would also apply for a rogue having a 20 con, since you will end up with a six anyway. :confused:
Gilean 12-07-05, 12:27 PM	I think he meant that you just assume you roll a six.That would make sense.
Koga:The ninja trick 12-07-05, 12:41 PM	Actually, this could be the start of balancing out the classes.. Standard Classes: Standard classes are the list whom are assumed to have automatic maximum HP, no die rolls. This list includes. Fighter. Sorcerer. Warlock. Soulknife. Paladin. Wilders. Spellthief. Marshal. Thug. Advanced Classes: Advanced classes are the list who get +1HP every level. (To insure no-one just gains 1HP a new level.) This list includes. Rogue. Bard. Barbarian. Rangers. Battle-Sorcerers. Monk. Traditional Classes: Traditional classes roll a hit die as normal with no extra bonuses besides that of thier normal con modifier. Cleric. Psi-Warrior. Wizard. Psion. Druid. It's may require a side-note to remind you of this ruling, but could very well offer more even gaming amongst the characters..
starfire311 12-07-05, 05:22 PM	our system is simple 1d4=3 HPs 1d6=4 HPs 1d8=5 HPs 1d10=6 HPs 1d12=7 HPs and ofcourse Max at 1st
Jerks 12-07-05, 10:17 PM	our system is simple 1d4=3 HPs 1d6=4 HPs 1d8=5 HPs 1d10=6 HPs 1d12=7 HPs and ofcourse Max at 1st Yes it's simple, but the one problem with taking the average (round-up) is that the high hit die guys suffer in comparison to the low hit die guys. In a rolling situation, if I get a 3 on a d4 I'm pumping my fist in victory. If I get a 7 on a d12, I'm content to get above average...but not exactly jumping for joy.
2y1y1z2 12-07-05, 11:20 PM	Had a similar discussion before. Here's what someone came up with. RELIABLE TOUGHNESS Benefit: Instead of rolling hit dice as normal, you instead use this method. d4 = 1d4+1 d6 = 1d4+2 d8 = 1d4+3 d10 = 1d4+4 d12 = 1d4+5 This feat ensures that you get at least half of your class's hit die, but also eliminates the chances of gaining a really high roll. die min max d4 2 5 d6 3 6 d8 4 7 d10 5 8 d12 6 9 As you can see, it benefits spellcasters a great deal, but it also prevents your barbarian from rolling a 1.
FriendlyBiscuit 12-09-05, 02:18 AM	I like the way they do it in Iron Heroes, d4 = d4+0/level d6 = d4+2/level d8 = d4+4/level d10 = d4+6/level d12 = d4+8/level I'm a big fan of everyone having more hitpoints, including monsters. When there are more hitpoints, players are encouraged to do more logical things, like trap or escape their enemies, than take their chances with attrition. But a barbarian in that system, by level 10, has a minimum of 88 HP, without Con! I think I'll go with d4 = d4+0/level d6 = d5+1/level (d10/2 round up) d8 = d6+2/level d10 = d7+3/level (d8, but reroll 8s) d12 = d8+4/level I hate full casters just as much as the next Occult Slayer, but the Iron Heroes System brutalizes them. Even with my system, a great deal of fighters or fighter-like classes and prestige classes will have a minimum of 4 HP per level (plus Con!). That's still pretty significant.
Jester_ 12-10-05, 06:34 PM	The system I use is the following (BTW don't quote me on the CON Bonus cuz it's been about 7 years since I've played - I'm recently trying to get back into it). At 1st Level, each character gets MAX HP + CON Bonus + CON SCORE. So a FTR w/ CON 18 would start w/ 31hps (10+3+18) A MAG w/11 CON would start w/ 15hps (4+0+11) Each level thereafter they get 1/2 MAX HP + CON Bonus until the original CON SCORE is paid back. So the above examples at level 2 would be: FTR = +8 more hps (1/2 MAX HP (d10 or +5) + CON Bonus (+3)) putting him @ 39 total. MAG = +2 hps (1/2 MAX HP (d4 or +2) + CON Bonus (+0)) putting him @ 17 total. Usually takes about 2-7 levels depending on CON score/class to pay back but this method ensures PCs get a nice boost early on, and then once their CON score is paid back I usually just do the "re-roll anything lower than CON Bonus" as someone above mentioned. In the above examples the FTR would continue to get +8hps/level until lvl 5 @ which point he only has 3 points to pay back so he would receive 10hps (MAX HP = 10-3 payback points = +7 + CON Bonus of +3 for a total of +10). The FTR would have 65hps @ Level 5 and from there on out would simply do normal /d10 re-rolling any 1/2/3s. So @ Level 10 this particular FTR would range from 100 to 130hps, w/ the average being about 115. The MAG would continue to get +2hps/level until level 7 @ which point he only has 1 point left to pay back and would receive +3hps. At level 7, the MAG would have 28 hps, and @ lvl 10 would have anywhere from 31 to 40 hps. It's not complicated at all (really it isn't heh), and in my case (majority of players were hack & slash) allowed them to jump right in to some action without having to worry about dying in one hit (esp casters). And after the first few levels (which usually go by quick anywayz) it doesn't have much of an impact anymore. I really liked this becuz it opened up the realm of possibilities for those first few levels a lot more as far as mobs and traps and what not.
lostone 12-11-05, 07:18 AM	I'm a big fan of everyone having more hitpoints, including monsters. When there are more hitpoints, players are encouraged to do more logical things, like trap or escape their enemies, than take their chances with attrition.I personally feel that is a flawed statement. It has been my experience that when the enemies/monsters have more hitpoints the players will play smarter. However, when the players have more hit points they tend to take stupid risks.
darkwarrior42 12-11-05, 07:40 AM	More hitpoints means you can survive a mistake that would otherwise have killed you, but also means you're more likely to survive a run of bad luck. *shrug* if battles run longer, then it's less likely a single lucky roll will swing the entire combat, but stupid risks become less stupid because you're more likely to survive if it doesn't pan out. I think it's not better or worse... just different. btw, LostOne, I like the icon... Cabal Interrogator?
Banedir 12-11-05, 08:03 AM	Yes it's simple, but the one problem with taking the average (round-up) is that the high hit die guys suffer in comparison to the low hit die guys. Yeah, the low hit die guys are given a slight advantage because three out of four, while supposed to be "average", is actually three quarters hit points. So the mages are guaranteed three quarters maximum while the barbarian only gets slightly above half. There is a counterbalance to this, however, which is that while hit points are "nice" for a wizard or rogue, that's all they are. Hit points for a fighter or barbarian on the other hand, go to the very heart of their effectiveness, and if they're guaranteed better than the intended average, then they can count on being effective...and as it said in the DMG, at least in the 3.0 DMG, bad hit points hurt more than good hit points help. I like the idea of rolling more dice for hit points to reduce the randomness factor, but anything that has to use a D5 seems a bit skewy to me. I think you'd get better results with a flat rate system. I also like the sound of the system where you roll a D4 and add an amount, that's the best compromise I've seen yet.
lostone 12-11-05, 08:06 AM	btw, LostOne, I like the icon... Cabal Interrogator?Honestly I'm not sure, just thought it looked cool. :D
darkwarrior42 12-11-05, 08:23 AM	I just pulled out my magic uncommons... it is the Cabal Interrogator, zombie wizard. I was always fond of him... I like any creature that directly deprives your foes of resources :-D
Kuraito 12-11-05, 08:43 AM	The HP method has been a subject of debate for a long time in my group. We mostly us the old "Take Half" variant from 3.0, where you could take half your maximum roll, not average, HALF. We kept it because when we switched to 3.5 we all agreed on this. Simply, with the Average variant, rolling is not smart. Mathmatically, you'll end up with that exact amount, but you run a good chance of getting less (really bad) and only a moderate chance of getting better (good, but not great). With HALF though, you make a trade. Safty, the die cannot screw you over in rerturn for the mathmatically assured overall bonus that rolling gets. Most people who roll will have higher HP then taking HALF, but most likely the same as average. But on the downside, you have the chance of getting screwed over alot. I personally like it that way. While it has bitten some of my d10 characters in the rear end (I always rolled :embarrass ) its mathmatically sound. If the fighters paranoid, they can take half, but realize that mathmatically they lose compared to someone who braved the odds and rolled. Edit: Also, with this varient you can go ahead an ditch the whole "Players are slightly stronger with this varient" line. Its pretty balanced really, you give up about the same, safty against low rolls in return for a lower overall yeild. This method, combined with point buy, allows characters to be built without the DM present, which can be handy.
Cymraegmorgan 12-11-05, 09:38 AM	Since no one wants to travel in a party with a wizard with bad hp, this method is slanted toward the low die classes, while still giving the tanks a better than even break. d4 = 4 +/- Con modifier. d6 = 4 + d2 +/- Con modifier. d8 = 4 + d4 +/- Con modifier. d10 = 6 + d4 +/- Con modifier. d12 = 6 + d6 +/- Con modifier.
lostone 12-11-05, 09:44 AM	Just curious if anyone has just given a flat % of the max hit points possible? d4 = 3 d6 = 4.5 (round up even levels round down odd levels) d8 = 6 d10 = 7.5 d12 = 9 Seems simple enough to me, doesn't give max hit points, gives better than average. And the best part is, there is no bad rolls.
Cymraegmorgan 12-11-05, 09:47 AM	Just curious if anyone has just given a flat % of the max hit points possible? d4 = 3 d6 = 4.5 (round up even levels round down odd levels) d8 = 6 d10 = 7.5 d12 = 9 Seems simple enough to me, doesn't give max hit points, gives better than average. And the best part is, there is no bad rolls. Most players I know do not want average. They want to avoid minimum like Death himself, but want a good chance at maximum.
lostone 12-11-05, 11:03 AM	Most players I know do not want average. They want to avoid minimum like Death himself, but want a good chance at maximum.LOL. Then my option is better than rolling. Rolling, unless they're using loaded dice or some houserule "reroll 1's & 2's" they will end up with close to average over the course of 20 levels. If they're consistently coming off with higher than average rolls (not counting con bonus) then they're cheating or amazingly lucky (and should go to Vegas). :D
Jesper 12-14-05, 12:51 PM	I like my variant: You can't roll lower than your Constitution modifier. If you do, you reroll. The exception to this is those who have Con mods larger than their max HP. In that case, just take the roll. So its better for a wiz to have 16 con then 18 as with 16 you will get full hp a level and with 18 you get a random number?
Dragonblade275 12-14-05, 09:58 PM	When you really think about it, rolling hit points doesn't make sense from all other design stand points of the d20 system. In every instance I can think of class abilities are just given flat-out. A rogue doesn't have to roll 1d8 for his skill points each round, so why should a fighter have to roll 1d10 for his hit points? For something so VITAL to the fighting classes it seems just wrong to have them risk rolling a 1's and 2's for a couple of levels and thus being totally gimp. Man, I never really looked at it like that before. I think the traditional method for rolling hit points may be one of those hold-overs from 2nd ed, that maybe should of gone the way of ThAC0.I think you're right. That's why in our group player characters always get max hit points, but so do major villains or other major npc's or any monsters or characters that use the elite array. Other monsters/characters have average hit points per hit die.
Jerks 12-14-05, 10:22 PM	I think you're right. That's why in our group player characters always get max hit points, but so do major villains or other major npc's or any monsters or characters that use the elite array. Other monsters/characters have average hit points per hit die. I'm glad it's not just me. The effects of multiple bad rolls is just too detrimental to leave it up to chance.
Icosahedron 12-18-05, 04:55 AM	Im glad it's not just me. The effects of multiple bad rolls is just too detrimental to leave it up to chance. You ain't kidding.... My DM allows us to reroll our hp if we want, but we must drop down a die, so one guy after rolling a one on a d12, rerolls with a d10 and gets a one. So he rerolls again, this time with a d8 and gets a one again. So he trys again with a d6 and of course gets a one. He rolls a d4 and gets- you guessed it- a one. He finally flips a coin (heads=2, tails=1). You can probably guess what he got... We just let him have full points, we felt bad for him. This sort of dice luck was par for him.
lostone 12-18-05, 08:32 AM	We just let him have full points, we felt bad for him. This sort of dice luck was par for him. :rofl: What do you expect when you use cheap loaded dice? :devil:
Jerks 12-18-05, 10:25 AM	:rofl: What do you expect when you use cheap loaded dice? :devil: I can't imagine the poor self-esteem of a player that's willing to by "low-roll" loaded dice. "I don't feel worthy enough to roll max damage."
lostone 12-18-05, 10:47 AM	I can't imagine the poor self-esteem of a player that's willing to by "low-roll" loaded dice. "I don't feel worthy enough to roll max damage."I meant he bought cheap loaded dice that were manufactured wrong, with the low numbers on the sides that come up more.
Jerks 12-18-05, 11:06 AM	I knew what you meant. ;) Does anyone else think of Octopussy everytime someone mentions loaded dice? "Always a double-six when you need it!" Like Bond, it may be advisable to all GMs to periodically roll the player's dice against them, just to be sure everything's on the up and up. :angelhide
lostone 12-18-05, 11:21 AM	Like Bond, it may be advisable to all GMs to periodically roll the player's dice against them, just to be sure everything's on the up and up. :angelhideI just tell any new group or player that I reserve the right to trade dice with them at any time for the remainder of the session. Then I tell them about the time I actually did catch a player with loaded dice. I grabbed them and used them for the rest of the night against the group. It resulted in a TPK, and I never saw those dice at the gaming table ever again (they were a very distinctive...outhouse brown color). Amazingly, that player started rolling more average rolls. :D
Jerks 12-18-05, 11:44 AM	Thankfully I've never had this problem with a player, but I must say your way of dealing with it was very nicely handled.
Phalse_One 12-26-05, 01:30 PM	I use a simple rule. Max HP for first level, after that average HP each level thereafter (DO NOT ROUND UP OR DOWN, just ignore the fraction). This results in an extra HP at every odd-numbered level (after 1st). A barbarian with a Constitution of 10 or 11 would have the following HP (assuming he never increases his Con or takes feats to increase his HP): 1st level: 12 (+12) 2nd level: 18 (+12+6.5) 3rd level: 25 (+12+6.5+6.5) 4th level: 31 (+12+6.5+6.5+6.5) 5th level: 38 (+12+6.5+6.5+6.5+6.5) I'm sure you get the pattern by now. The players do not have an option to roll for HP, rolled HP is simply too random for something that you are stuck with for your character's full career. If you roll low at 2nd level, those 'missing' HP are still 'missing' at 100th level. I use the same calculation for monsters (non-elite creatures do not gain Max HP at 1st level, so a kobold expert has 3 +/_ Con, but a kobold Fighter has 10 HP +/- Con. As a side note, this makes changing to an undead much easier to figure out (the whole change HD to d12s things can really suck if you have to roll 12d12 and hope you get higher than your 12th level character already has). I think it is very important to make sure that all players have to use the same rule for rolling for HP, that way you don't have three fighters with the same ability scores with HPs of 25, 75 and 100 (how would you feel if you were MR 25 HP). I played as a fighter with in a combat-class heavy campaign (fighter, paladin, ranger, and rogue as well as NPC cleric) and even though I had the highest Con I had 20 HP lower than either the paladin or ranger. On a related note I think point buy is important for ability scores as well. Some people like random though, so to each their own.
Witchblade 12-26-05, 05:45 PM	Just curious if anyone has just given a flat % of the max hit points possible? d4 = 3 d6 = 4.5 (round up even levels round down odd levels) d8 = 6 d10 = 7.5 d12 = 9 Seems simple enough to me, doesn't give max hit points, gives better than average. And the best part is, there is no bad rolls. Exactly, I don't see what the fuss is all about.
Puggins 12-27-05, 02:28 PM	I'm another DM who nixed random die-rolling. I also wanted to make sure that classes didn't benefit disproportionally from any given method, so my rule was to take 75% of the maximum die roll of each level, add them up and discard the fraction. So a fighter3/ranger4 (who started as a ranger) would get: 8 + 22.5 + 24 = 54.5 -> 54 hit points Rolling for hit points is an artifact from previous editions that needed to die but was kept alive for old times' sake. I can't fault 'em for the decision, truth be told, but mayeb int he next edition they'll feel comfortable enough to get rid of it.
darklogic 12-31-05, 12:13 AM	Honestly, I find the classes to be balanced in favor of spellcasters as it stands, especially full spellcasters. By the time you get toward epic levels, or heck even 6th + level spells, spellcasters can do things than can make most melee combat oriented classes obsolete. So I am particularly generous with hit points. Every time a character would otherwise roll a hit die for gaining a level, they instead take the full ammount of hit points that a maximum die roll could produce and subtract two from the total. Then add Constitution modifier for good or ill, with a minimum hit point gain of one. Grant full hit points at first level as per normal rules in the PHB. This does several things. 1.It gives full spellcasters with d4 HD only 2 hit points per level, or as low as 1 hit point per level if they treat Con as a dump stat. It forces them to do only what they do well: spellcasting. I particularly believe that spellcasters need to have someone to act as a human shield to be effective, otherwise they'd be loners and not members of a party. A Wizard, by level 25 without taking Con into account, will have 50 Hp. That's meant to be a major ouch, and it is. 2.It rewards fighers and barbarians for doing what they do best: tanking. The idea of a wizard rolling a 4 when a barbarian rolls a 1 is obscene to me. So I make sure that the fighting classes have exponentially more hit points per HD than their spellcasting counterparts, and I find this balances my games a lot. A Barbarian at level 25, for example, before con is considered, has 250 hit points, five times as many as a wizard, even though his hit die is only three times as good under the standard rules. 3.It creates an easy to follow multiplier for increases in hit points for the classes, as follows. d4s = 2 hit points d6s = 4 hit points, twice as many as d4s d8s = 6 hit points, three times as many as d4s d10s = 8 hit points, four times as many as d4s d12s = 10 hit points, five times as many as d4s