Variant: PrC druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Variant: PrC druid [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Abulafia
06-27-06, 04:36 PM The druid class is powerful in some ways, and limited in others. It's not quite a replacement for the cleric, but it offers a lot of cool new abilities for a divine caster. . . almost like a prestige class!

Here's my attempt to re-jigger the druid class into a prestige class for woodsy clerics. Basically, the druid class abilities are compressed into a 10-level PrC, with prereqs limiting entry to after 5th level. The idea is for a character to be able to retain some hard-to-replace cleric abilities (spontaneous cures, turning undead) and improve their spell list in return for harder requirements (it basically requires access to the Plant or Animal domain, plus a new feat and some difficult skill requirements). For those who like their PrC to be organization or culture-oriented, I think it adds some game flavor as well. What do you think?

Druid PrC

Prerequisites:

Knowledge (nature) 8 ranks
Survival 4 ranks
Feat: Nature Sense (new feat that replicates Druidic 1st-level ability of the same name (+2 to Knowledge (Nature) and Survival))
Ability to cast 3rd-level divine spells, which must include either Dominate Animal or Plant Growth (or both).
Alignment: NG, N, NE, LN, or CN
Special: must be accepted into the Order of the Druids, which requires an oath to not use metal armor or shields. Any Druid who violates this oath loses access to the Druid class features listed below, although s/he can still cast spells or use the class features from whatever classes she previously had.

Class Features:

HD: d8
Skills (4 pts/level): Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Religion), Listen, Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Swim.
Weapon & Armor Proficiencies: Druids gain no proficiencies in weapons or armor, although they must abide by their oath to not use metal armors or shields (see above).
Base Attack Bonus: as Cleric.
Saves: as Cleric.

1 -- Animal Companion, Wild Empathy, Druidic Spontaneous Casting, spells
2 -- Wild shape 2/day, Woodland Stride
3 -- Wild shape 3/day, Trackless Step
4 -- Wild shape (Large), Resist Nature's Lure
5 -- Wild shape 4/day, Venom Immunity
6 -- Wild shape (Tiny), Bonus Domain
7 -- Wild shape (Plants)
8 -- A Thousand Faces
9 -- Wild shape 5/day
10 -- Wild shape (Huge), Timeless Body

All PrC abilities are the same as the druid base-class abilities of the same name, except level-based effects use 5+druid PrC level instead of druid class level. For example, a character with 2 levels in the Druid PrC could have a tiger animal companion like a character with 7 levels in the druid class.

Druidic Spontaneous Casting: Can convert prepared spells into Summon Nature's Ally spells of the same level or lower. Character retains any spontaneous casting ability from another class (like cleric's spontaneous cure spells).

Spells: At each level, a druid gains spells per day as if she gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class qualified her for the PrC, including domain spells (if applicable).

Bonus Domain: Gains access to one of the following domains: Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Sun, Water. Does not gain an extra domain slot. (this is included as an attempt to re-add some distinctly druidic spells to the character's spell list)

Questions? Comments? Suggestions?
kabof
07-03-06, 08:35 AM So, erm... using your idea, I'm going to have a druid that can use Divine Metamagic. /o/
It's too much, I guess. You should unpower the PrC in some way.
ForgottenCode
07-03-06, 10:42 AM Yeah, this is too much, I think. You end up with a caster who can Wild Shape, Turn Undead for Divine Metamagic. Spontaneously cast both healing and summon nature's ally spells. Etc, etc.

Cleric/Druid are powerful enough as they are. This is a bad idea, methinks.
fatal error
07-04-06, 05:58 PM Yea, the problem is, you're 'sacrificing' one skill point a level and one feat, to gain wildshape, an animal companion, and some other boons. All this, while still not losing a single level of spellcasting. Now, the ironic thing is of course that you can normally play a druid and not even sacrifice a skill point or feat and its considered balanced.

The ability to combine the two most powerful classes, gaining almost all the druid's non-spellcasting benefits with the cleric's spell progression (remember, clerics aren't losing any class features for taking this class) makes this just insanity.

Which of course brings up my frustration with most prestige classes made for spellcasters. Since wizards, sorcerers, clerics and to a lesser extent druids are all defined by their spells, no one wants to play one just to prestige class and lose them. After all, a fighter doesn't lose BAB or HP for going into a fighting prestige class. However, because the cleric, sorcerer and wizard have no class features, unlike the fighter, barbarian and ranger, the caster oriented prestige classes must in turn give them features to make the PrC unique, yet cannot take from any of the base classes' features. Thus, caster prestige classes fall into one of three catagories:
Partial progression, in which the three lost levels of spells are made up for in class abilities, the fact that they still get 9th level spells being the saving grace of this method, though they'll still at times be one or two spell levels behind other classes until 20.
Full progression, generally these are just better, unless you have to jump through hoops to meet the requirements, there's no reason not to take a class that will give you more class features for no cost.
Bad, either it has ridiculous multiclassing requirements that it doesn't repay, or it has a partial progression that isn't properly paid off with good class features. These are the classes you look at and say, "What would ever make me want to play one of these?".

But, I digress, the main point is a PrC druid, and in this incarnation, it is unbalanced.
FeceMan
07-05-06, 12:54 AM I'd highly recommend the Warcraft RPG (not World of Warcraft, but Warcraft) PHB supplement, as it does this with a number of classes (ranger, druid, paladin, etc.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Abulafia 06-27-06, 04:36 PM	The druid class is powerful in some ways, and limited in others. It's not quite a replacement for the cleric, but it offers a lot of cool new abilities for a divine caster. . . almost like a prestige class! Here's my attempt to re-jigger the druid class into a prestige class for woodsy clerics. Basically, the druid class abilities are compressed into a 10-level PrC, with prereqs limiting entry to after 5th level. The idea is for a character to be able to retain some hard-to-replace cleric abilities (spontaneous cures, turning undead) and improve their spell list in return for harder requirements (it basically requires access to the Plant or Animal domain, plus a new feat and some difficult skill requirements). For those who like their PrC to be organization or culture-oriented, I think it adds some game flavor as well. What do you think? Druid PrC Prerequisites: Knowledge (nature) 8 ranks Survival 4 ranks Feat: Nature Sense (new feat that replicates Druidic 1st-level ability of the same name (+2 to Knowledge (Nature) and Survival)) Ability to cast 3rd-level divine spells, which must include either Dominate Animal or Plant Growth (or both). Alignment: NG, N, NE, LN, or CN Special: must be accepted into the Order of the Druids, which requires an oath to not use metal armor or shields. Any Druid who violates this oath loses access to the Druid class features listed below, although s/he can still cast spells or use the class features from whatever classes she previously had. Class Features: HD: d8 Skills (4 pts/level): Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Nature), Knowledge (Religion), Listen, Profession, Ride, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Swim. Weapon & Armor Proficiencies: Druids gain no proficiencies in weapons or armor, although they must abide by their oath to not use metal armors or shields (see above). Base Attack Bonus: as Cleric. Saves: as Cleric. 1 -- Animal Companion, Wild Empathy, Druidic Spontaneous Casting, spells 2 -- Wild shape 2/day, Woodland Stride 3 -- Wild shape 3/day, Trackless Step 4 -- Wild shape (Large), Resist Nature's Lure 5 -- Wild shape 4/day, Venom Immunity 6 -- Wild shape (Tiny), Bonus Domain 7 -- Wild shape (Plants) 8 -- A Thousand Faces 9 -- Wild shape 5/day 10 -- Wild shape (Huge), Timeless Body All PrC abilities are the same as the druid base-class abilities of the same name, except level-based effects use 5+druid PrC level instead of druid class level. For example, a character with 2 levels in the Druid PrC could have a tiger animal companion like a character with 7 levels in the druid class. Druidic Spontaneous Casting: Can convert prepared spells into Summon Nature's Ally spells of the same level or lower. Character retains any spontaneous casting ability from another class (like cleric's spontaneous cure spells). Spells: At each level, a druid gains spells per day as if she gained a level in whatever divine spellcasting class qualified her for the PrC, including domain spells (if applicable). Bonus Domain: Gains access to one of the following domains: Air, Animal, Earth, Fire, Plant, Sun, Water. Does not gain an extra domain slot. (this is included as an attempt to re-add some distinctly druidic spells to the character's spell list) Questions? Comments? Suggestions?
kabof 07-03-06, 08:35 AM	So, erm... using your idea, I'm going to have a druid that can use Divine Metamagic. /o/ It's too much, I guess. You should unpower the PrC in some way.
ForgottenCode 07-03-06, 10:42 AM	Yeah, this is too much, I think. You end up with a caster who can Wild Shape, Turn Undead for Divine Metamagic. Spontaneously cast both healing and summon nature's ally spells. Etc, etc. Cleric/Druid are powerful enough as they are. This is a bad idea, methinks.
fatal error 07-04-06, 05:58 PM	Yea, the problem is, you're 'sacrificing' one skill point a level and one feat, to gain wildshape, an animal companion, and some other boons. All this, while still not losing a single level of spellcasting. Now, the ironic thing is of course that you can normally play a druid and not even sacrifice a skill point or feat and its considered balanced. The ability to combine the two most powerful classes, gaining almost all the druid's non-spellcasting benefits with the cleric's spell progression (remember, clerics aren't losing any class features for taking this class) makes this just insanity. Which of course brings up my frustration with most prestige classes made for spellcasters. Since wizards, sorcerers, clerics and to a lesser extent druids are all defined by their spells, no one wants to play one just to prestige class and lose them. After all, a fighter doesn't lose BAB or HP for going into a fighting prestige class. However, because the cleric, sorcerer and wizard have no class features, unlike the fighter, barbarian and ranger, the caster oriented prestige classes must in turn give them features to make the PrC unique, yet cannot take from any of the base classes' features. Thus, caster prestige classes fall into one of three catagories: Partial progression, in which the three lost levels of spells are made up for in class abilities, the fact that they still get 9th level spells being the saving grace of this method, though they'll still at times be one or two spell levels behind other classes until 20. Full progression, generally these are just better, unless you have to jump through hoops to meet the requirements, there's no reason not to take a class that will give you more class features for no cost. Bad, either it has ridiculous multiclassing requirements that it doesn't repay, or it has a partial progression that isn't properly paid off with good class features. These are the classes you look at and say, "What would ever make me want to play one of these?". But, I digress, the main point is a PrC druid, and in this incarnation, it is unbalanced.
FeceMan 07-05-06, 12:54 AM	I'd highly recommend the Warcraft RPG (not World of Warcraft, but Warcraft) PHB supplement, as it does this with a number of classes (ranger, druid, paladin, etc.)