Variant: WP and VP (Diehard?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Variant: WP and VP (Diehard?) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Herr Doktor
02-19-04, 11:21 PM I've created this thread for those of us who want to run their campaign(s) using this variant rule.

There are some obvious questions that come up as one looks over this section... One of the most noteable being "What the heck does Diehard do if there is no longer any negative HP, or HP at all for that matter, involved in the game?"

I'd say that Diehard would provide a bonus to the Fort saved made to stabilize and such, though I'm not sure how high the bonus might be while still keeping the feat "balanced."

Any suggestions? Other questions concerning WP and VP?
Archangel
02-20-04, 09:20 AM Actually the biggest question is why is weapon fighting suddenly a lot more powerful then spellcasting?
Kaya Kenobi
02-20-04, 10:26 AM It should be equal. I slash to the neck is just as dangerous as a fireball centered on something.
Misyrr
02-20-04, 10:45 AM I'm not sure what I'd do about Diehard. You seem to be on the right track.Originally posted by Archangel
Actually the biggest question is why is weapon fighting suddenly a lot more powerful then spellcasting? Spells that require attack rolls can critical, making them just as dangerous. I might also rule that a critical failure on a Saving Throw against a damaging spell (i.e. fireball) would apply the damage directly to Wound Points.
alric_gaidin
02-20-04, 03:18 PM First off I'd like to say the the VP/WP system works great. No complaints at all. However unless you have these items as house rules aswell:

-- Armor grants DR (only vs. Wound damage)
-- Each class has a Defense Bonus progression
-- unmodified crit ranges cap at 19-20

... it can be very difficult to implement into a normal D&D game.
Misyrr
02-20-04, 06:54 PM Originally posted by alric_gaidin
First off I'd like to say the the VP/WP system...

-- unmodified crit ranges cap at 19-20
I'm unfamiliar with the system overall and will be testing it for the first time this Sunday. The large threat ranges are pretty scary, but a houserule like that would touch a lot of aspects of the game.

What happens to the Improved Critical feat, or the Keen magical property? Should they vanish as well?

Using that houserule how would you determine which weapons have which threat range (19-20 or 20)?
alric_gaidin
02-23-04, 05:55 PM Originally posted by Misyrr

Using that houserule how would you determine which weapons have which threat range (19-20 or 20)?

Convert them all this way:
-- Weapons with 19-20 crit ranges or x3 multipliers get docked down to only 20
-- Weapons with 18-20 crit ranges (or higher) or x4 multipliers (or higher) become 19-20.
-- Improved Critical and Keen both stack and work normally.

Or at least, with my experience with SW, thats how I would handle it. Others on these board might think otherwise.

~Alric
Xychotic
02-23-04, 07:51 PM I have been using v/wp since Spycraft came out. However, I kept negative hit points.

As it stands, it works very well. I plan to include the armor as DR rules. However, I'm kinda wicked, I just reduced the multiplier of every weapon by one, and decided that a crit goes strait to wounds.... yes, scythes deal x3 wound damage on a crit.

As for Diehard, I'd say that your character stays fully functional while dying and disabled. He's still dying (must make Fort saves) or disabled (becomes dying if he exerts himself), but can go through the whole battery of actions.
Thelon Fairblade
03-02-04, 08:50 AM I had a thought about spells months ago, before I even heard about VP/WP in Star Wars:

Each damage-dealing spell *also* inflicts 1 wound point per spell level, regardless of the Vitality Damage inflicted. Magic Missile = 1 wound point. Fireball, 3 WP. Meteor Swarm, 9 WP.

Some tweaks for this would be
-- only applies on a failed save (no save = always applies)
-- doubling it, but it only applies when you fail the save
-- doubling it, but half damage if you make the save
-- Adding the caster's "spell stat" modifier to the damage (probably only on a failed save)
-- On a critical hit (or critical spell failure), no *extra* WP damage is inflicted (because the spell is already inflicting its normal damage to WP)

Thoughts?
Thelon Fairblade
03-04-04, 08:42 AM :bump:
VanDeBeast
03-04-04, 04:38 PM Since Diehard is supposed to keep you going when your injuries are knocking you down I think the following might work well.
--Does not become fatigued when taking WP damage, while the character still has WP>0.
--Cannot become stunned due to WP damage while WP>0.
--Does not become disabled at WP=0, but does need to save to avoid dying.
--Once WP=0 character becomes fatigued.
--Character can be stunned once WP=0.

The ideas are a little rough, and potentially unbalanced, but I think it keep to the spirit of the feat.
Count Arioch the 28th
03-04-04, 07:37 PM Sounds kind of weak, but then again, so was diehard.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Herr Doktor 02-19-04, 11:21 PM	I've created this thread for those of us who want to run their campaign(s) using this variant rule. There are some obvious questions that come up as one looks over this section... One of the most noteable being "What the heck does Diehard do if there is no longer any negative HP, or HP at all for that matter, involved in the game?" I'd say that Diehard would provide a bonus to the Fort saved made to stabilize and such, though I'm not sure how high the bonus might be while still keeping the feat "balanced." Any suggestions? Other questions concerning WP and VP?
Archangel 02-20-04, 09:20 AM	Actually the biggest question is why is weapon fighting suddenly a lot more powerful then spellcasting?
Kaya Kenobi 02-20-04, 10:26 AM	It should be equal. I slash to the neck is just as dangerous as a fireball centered on something.
Misyrr 02-20-04, 10:45 AM	I'm not sure what I'd do about Diehard. You seem to be on the right track.Originally posted by Archangel Actually the biggest question is why is weapon fighting suddenly a lot more powerful then spellcasting? Spells that require attack rolls can critical, making them just as dangerous. I might also rule that a critical failure on a Saving Throw against a damaging spell (i.e. fireball) would apply the damage directly to Wound Points.
alric_gaidin 02-20-04, 03:18 PM	First off I'd like to say the the VP/WP system works great. No complaints at all. However unless you have these items as house rules aswell: -- Armor grants DR (only vs. Wound damage) -- Each class has a Defense Bonus progression -- unmodified crit ranges cap at 19-20 ... it can be very difficult to implement into a normal D&D game.
Misyrr 02-20-04, 06:54 PM	Originally posted by alric_gaidin First off I'd like to say the the VP/WP system... -- unmodified crit ranges cap at 19-20 I'm unfamiliar with the system overall and will be testing it for the first time this Sunday. The large threat ranges are pretty scary, but a houserule like that would touch a lot of aspects of the game. What happens to the Improved Critical feat, or the Keen magical property? Should they vanish as well? Using that houserule how would you determine which weapons have which threat range (19-20 or 20)?
alric_gaidin 02-23-04, 05:55 PM	Originally posted by Misyrr Using that houserule how would you determine which weapons have which threat range (19-20 or 20)? Convert them all this way: -- Weapons with 19-20 crit ranges or x3 multipliers get docked down to only 20 -- Weapons with 18-20 crit ranges (or higher) or x4 multipliers (or higher) become 19-20. -- Improved Critical and Keen both stack and work normally. Or at least, with my experience with SW, thats how I would handle it. Others on these board might think otherwise. ~Alric
Xychotic 02-23-04, 07:51 PM	I have been using v/wp since Spycraft came out. However, I kept negative hit points. As it stands, it works very well. I plan to include the armor as DR rules. However, I'm kinda wicked, I just reduced the multiplier of every weapon by one, and decided that a crit goes strait to wounds.... yes, scythes deal x3 wound damage on a crit. As for Diehard, I'd say that your character stays fully functional while dying and disabled. He's still dying (must make Fort saves) or disabled (becomes dying if he exerts himself), but can go through the whole battery of actions.
Thelon Fairblade 03-02-04, 08:50 AM	I had a thought about spells months ago, before I even heard about VP/WP in Star Wars: Each damage-dealing spell also inflicts 1 wound point per spell level, regardless of the Vitality Damage inflicted. Magic Missile = 1 wound point. Fireball, 3 WP. Meteor Swarm, 9 WP. Some tweaks for this would be -- only applies on a failed save (no save = always applies) -- doubling it, but it only applies when you fail the save -- doubling it, but half damage if you make the save -- Adding the caster's "spell stat" modifier to the damage (probably only on a failed save) -- On a critical hit (or critical spell failure), no extra WP damage is inflicted (because the spell is already inflicting its normal damage to WP) Thoughts?
Thelon Fairblade 03-04-04, 08:42 AM	:bump:
VanDeBeast 03-04-04, 04:38 PM	Since Diehard is supposed to keep you going when your injuries are knocking you down I think the following might work well. --Does not become fatigued when taking WP damage, while the character still has WP>0. --Cannot become stunned due to WP damage while WP>0. --Does not become disabled at WP=0, but does need to save to avoid dying. --Once WP=0 character becomes fatigued. --Character can be stunned once WP=0. The ideas are a little rough, and potentially unbalanced, but I think it keep to the spirit of the feat.
Count Arioch the 28th 03-04-04, 07:37 PM	Sounds kind of weak, but then again, so was diehard.