Post/Author/DateTime	Post
technochris81 03-31-06, 12:54 AM	char A has a STR 10 char B has a STR 20 should char A ever be able to beat char B at armwrestling? according to normal rules, this would just be char A = 1d20 + 0 vs. char B = 1d20 + 4 most would agree, this isn't even close to being true to life. you could also do a similar situation with say.....a chess game. and you could assume that neither character had any skill ranks or anything to help them. could a INT 20 char ever really lose to an INT 10 character at chess? what i suggest is something like this: char A = 10 + 1d4 vs. char B = 20 + 1d4 this would allow a char with say a 18 STR to beat a 20 STR char sometimes. but, as it should be, the 20 STR char would still win most times. i'm just trying to get something that works better for opposed rolls. please offer other variants if you want. -chris
strumbleduck 03-31-06, 01:27 AM	I always figured that something like an arm wrestle would work like a "complex skill check" (from UA). The two contestants would roll repeated strength checks, and there'd be some rule for determining the winner (e.g., the first contestant to win three opposed strength checks in a row). I think something similar would be true for most competitive games. Games take a long time precisely because players must repeatedly demonstrate their skill to prove victorious. Something like an IQ test works the same way: each individual question is an intelligence check, but the fact that there are so many questions eliminates the randomness.
Xeviat-DM 03-31-06, 02:11 AM	I agree; an opposed skill check should be a complex skill when it comes to prolonged contests. A raw strength check, for instance, is like when someone tries to push you away; even if they're stronger, sometimes they will fail.
technochris81 03-31-06, 08:11 AM	good points thank you
Mist of Shadows 03-31-06, 07:33 PM	Arm wrestling is a bit more then just I win you lose but to me the ability check is sort of silly. take some one with an even worse str say 4 so a -3 We are talking about children here almost or very weak maybe crippled people. No take a str 4 person and a str 20 person On rolls it looks like this 20 -3 = 17 So str twenty person rolls a 13 and wins. 19 -3 = 16 So str twenty person rolls a 12 and wins. 18 -3 = 15 So str twenty person rolls a 11 and wins. 17 -3 = 14 So str twenty person rolls a 10 and wins. 16 -3 = 13 So str twenty person rolls a 9 and wins. 15 -3 = 12 So str twenty person rolls an 8 and wins. 14 -3 = 11 So str twenty person rolls a 7 and wins. 13 -3 = 10 So str twenty person rolls a 6 and wins. 12 -3 = 9 So str twenty person rolls a 5 and wins. 11 -3 = 8 so str twenty person rolls a 4 and wins. 10 -3 = 7 so str twenty person rolls a 3 and wins. 9 - 3 = 6 So str twenty person rolls a 2 and wins. 8 - 3 = 5 So str twenty person rolls a 1 and wins. roll of 7 or below and str 4 loses. So a garentied loss only 40% of the time for a person with a str of 4. So that leaves 11 numbers that could win. Only a hand full of numbers that might have a shot at winning. But still that's way more then anyone with a strength of 4 should have against someone stronger then body builders that aren't in the genious book of world records. Str 4 light load is 13 pounds, medium is 14 to 26 pounds, 27 to 40 is a heavy load. Str 20 133 lbs or less for a light. 134 to 266 for a medium and 267 to 400 pounds for a heavy load. And yet it's possible to win on 11 dice throws. It shouldn't be possible at all without dm mods. Ie topless waitress walks by, halfling stabs the stronger guy, or something strange happens. I normally tell the players to say a str score no higher then their own that they want to wrestle at. If the other person is within four then we roll otherwise the stronger person wins. It tends to work well for games that aren't really based on skill. There is some skill in that str of 4 difference but past that a str of 4 should have NO chance. Yeah the dice could make him win way more then he should. I mean the str 4 rolls a 15 that drops it to a 12 The str of 20 rolls a 7 they tie. Anything lower is a loss. I see nothing wrong with telling the str 4 character that he loses horribly and painfully.
Phoenix Knight 04-01-06, 12:35 PM	I see nothing wrong with telling the str 4 character that he loses horribly and painfully. Now you're my hero. I actually kind of like the original suggestion about using d4s, though I might go with d6s. I like it, because, I think many players may want the roll, or else they feel cheated. This is the kind of situation that is not a problem in a success-based system, but it is tricky because of the degree of variance in a d20 roll, which exceeds the variance of modifiers on abilities. You could also say, 1d6 + ability mod. Str 4 = 1d6 -3 (max 3) Str 20 = 1d6 + 5 (min 6)
Mist of Shadows 04-01-06, 02:00 PM	I actually sort of like the 1d6 plus mod idea. I mean if the str 20 rolls a 1 that's a 6 If I str twelve character rolls a 6 he could win. But it would require a one in 36 chance. The chances increase as your strength gets closer together showing the degree of skill in arm wrestling. Where as a 11 or less str loses always. I'm fine with that. maybe have two rolls. That would reduce the chance of the str 12 person to winning to 1 in 1296 I think. Because he would have to roll a 6 twice while the str 20 would have to roll a 1 twice.