Vitality and wound points (need help) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Vitality and wound points (need help) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
DragonBringerX
08-16-06, 03:28 AM ok...got a quick question here.
In the Vp/Wp system it says that b/c crit's dont deal extra damage but instead damage your wound points, weapons that have a higher crit multiplier instead have an increased threat.
x3 = 19-20
x4 = 18-20
x5 = 17-20
so my Q. is: if you have a scythe (18-20 now) and pick up improved crit, would the range increase to 15-20 crit? and what if i did have a x5 weapon (weapon master pclass), does that mean the threat is actually 13-20? if so...holy :gah:
Tenzhi
08-16-06, 04:27 AM When using VP/WP, methinks it would not be untoward to change Improved Critical so that it only increased the threat range by one point.
DarkThoughts24
08-16-06, 09:00 AM yeah, the star wars d20 goes with the +1 rule for improved critical and it was the first source of vitality/wound points.
Millennium
08-16-06, 12:04 PM so my Q. is: if you have a scythe (18-20 now) and pick up improved crit, would the range increase to 15-20 crit? and what if i did have a x5 weapon (weapon master pclass), does that mean the threat is actually 13-20? if so...holy :gah:
By RAW (in whatever way the term RAW applies to Unearthed Arcana), you are correct. However, it is extremely common for DMs using Vitality/Wounds to also apply the Star Wars rule that effects which ordinarily double a weapon's threat range instead only add 1 to it.
DragonBringerX
08-16-06, 08:16 PM so...if a weapon master (scythe) had one, he would have a crit range of 15-20? I do believe he has to have improved crit feat, if not then a weapon master with the impr crit feat.
-for all those lacking their books at the moment, weapon master increases the threat range and the critical multiplier
:fight!:
DarkThoughts24
08-17-06, 11:03 PM 16-20 but yeah
Thunder Rift
08-19-06, 10:20 AM When i tried Vitality and wounds system I didnt even allow the weapon master class.
DragonBringerX
08-26-06, 03:03 PM 16-20 but yeah

no it would be 15-20 b/c it's normaly 18-20,
then weapon master up's the crit to x5...so 17-20,
then it also up's the crit threat by 1...so 16-20,
then improved crit feat...so 15-20. (...sorry i had to )
Jerks
08-26-06, 03:39 PM One thing I did with the Vitality/Wounds system is to have the weapons deal double vitality with anything in an expanded range, and only deal wounds on a natural 20.

That way
DragonBringerX
08-27-06, 04:19 AM what do you mean "expanded range"?
LordPendragon
08-27-06, 11:31 AM what do you mean "expanded range"?He means anything that threatens a critical hit but isn't a natural 20; ie a 19 when using a longsword.
Jerks
08-27-06, 12:39 PM He means anything that threatens a critical hit but isn't a natural 20; ie a 19 when using a longsword.

Exactly. With the nature of vitality and wounds we felt fairer and helped "rebalance" weapons the easiest.
Xeviat-DM
08-27-06, 02:59 PM I went the opposite way: I left weapon threat ranges and critical multipliers alone. Here's how it works:

Player 1 rolls an attack with a longsword (19-20/x2) and rolls a 19; a hit. Player 1 then rolls damage, 1d8+3, and applies it to their opponent's Vitality. Then, Player 1 rolls to confirm their critical hit, and rolls a 13; still a hit. Player 1 then rolls damage once more, still 1d8+3, and applies it to their opponent's Wound points.

So the first x1 of the critical multiplier goes to VP, while the remainder goes to wounds.

So an Axe (20/x3) would deal 1d8+? to VP and 2d8+2x? to WP on a successful critical hit.

I've ran the numbers on this: a scimitar will crit 3 times more often than a pick, but a pick will crit for three times the effectiveness. Technically the high threat range items are better, because wound damage fatigues and high multipliers tend to waste damage, but dealing a horrendous crit with a pick is fun for PCs.

I'm still looking into ways to increase WP over the course of the game, aside from handing out lots of Con boosting items or encouraging people to take toughness for +3 WP. It seems like a feat like endurance could grant WP damage reduction, or at the very least a feat tied to endurance.
LordPendragon
08-27-06, 04:12 PM I like that idea about dividing the critical damage.

Will Improved Toughness be available?? If so, will it add WP or VP??
Jerks
08-27-06, 04:25 PM I like that idea about dividing the critical damage.

Will Improved Toughness be available?? If so, will it add WP or VP??

I don't know how others rule it, but generally "flat" bonuses to hit points increase Wound points (such as Toughness). While things like Improved Toughness (which has a number based on hit dice) improve Vitality.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DragonBringerX 08-16-06, 03:28 AM	ok...got a quick question here. In the Vp/Wp system it says that b/c crit's dont deal extra damage but instead damage your wound points, weapons that have a higher crit multiplier instead have an increased threat. x3 = 19-20 x4 = 18-20 x5 = 17-20 so my Q. is: if you have a scythe (18-20 now) and pick up improved crit, would the range increase to 15-20 crit? and what if i did have a x5 weapon (weapon master pclass), does that mean the threat is actually 13-20? if so...holy :gah:
Tenzhi 08-16-06, 04:27 AM	When using VP/WP, methinks it would not be untoward to change Improved Critical so that it only increased the threat range by one point.
DarkThoughts24 08-16-06, 09:00 AM	yeah, the star wars d20 goes with the +1 rule for improved critical and it was the first source of vitality/wound points.
Millennium 08-16-06, 12:04 PM	so my Q. is: if you have a scythe (18-20 now) and pick up improved crit, would the range increase to 15-20 crit? and what if i did have a x5 weapon (weapon master pclass), does that mean the threat is actually 13-20? if so...holy :gah: By RAW (in whatever way the term RAW applies to Unearthed Arcana), you are correct. However, it is extremely common for DMs using Vitality/Wounds to also apply the Star Wars rule that effects which ordinarily double a weapon's threat range instead only add 1 to it.
DragonBringerX 08-16-06, 08:16 PM	so...if a weapon master (scythe) had one, he would have a crit range of 15-20? I do believe he has to have improved crit feat, if not then a weapon master with the impr crit feat. -for all those lacking their books at the moment, weapon master increases the threat range and the critical multiplier :fight!:
DarkThoughts24 08-17-06, 11:03 PM	16-20 but yeah
Thunder Rift 08-19-06, 10:20 AM	When i tried Vitality and wounds system I didnt even allow the weapon master class.
DragonBringerX 08-26-06, 03:03 PM	16-20 but yeah no it would be 15-20 b/c it's normaly 18-20, then weapon master up's the crit to x5...so 17-20, then it also up's the crit threat by 1...so 16-20, then improved crit feat...so 15-20. (...sorry i had to )
Jerks 08-26-06, 03:39 PM	One thing I did with the Vitality/Wounds system is to have the weapons deal double vitality with anything in an expanded range, and only deal wounds on a natural 20. That way
DragonBringerX 08-27-06, 04:19 AM	what do you mean "expanded range"?
LordPendragon 08-27-06, 11:31 AM	what do you mean "expanded range"?He means anything that threatens a critical hit but isn't a natural 20; ie a 19 when using a longsword.
Jerks 08-27-06, 12:39 PM	He means anything that threatens a critical hit but isn't a natural 20; ie a 19 when using a longsword. Exactly. With the nature of vitality and wounds we felt fairer and helped "rebalance" weapons the easiest.
Xeviat-DM 08-27-06, 02:59 PM	I went the opposite way: I left weapon threat ranges and critical multipliers alone. Here's how it works: Player 1 rolls an attack with a longsword (19-20/x2) and rolls a 19; a hit. Player 1 then rolls damage, 1d8+3, and applies it to their opponent's Vitality. Then, Player 1 rolls to confirm their critical hit, and rolls a 13; still a hit. Player 1 then rolls damage once more, still 1d8+3, and applies it to their opponent's Wound points. So the first x1 of the critical multiplier goes to VP, while the remainder goes to wounds. So an Axe (20/x3) would deal 1d8+? to VP and 2d8+2x? to WP on a successful critical hit. I've ran the numbers on this: a scimitar will crit 3 times more often than a pick, but a pick will crit for three times the effectiveness. Technically the high threat range items are better, because wound damage fatigues and high multipliers tend to waste damage, but dealing a horrendous crit with a pick is fun for PCs. I'm still looking into ways to increase WP over the course of the game, aside from handing out lots of Con boosting items or encouraging people to take toughness for +3 WP. It seems like a feat like endurance could grant WP damage reduction, or at the very least a feat tied to endurance.
LordPendragon 08-27-06, 04:12 PM	I like that idea about dividing the critical damage. Will Improved Toughness be available?? If so, will it add WP or VP??
Jerks 08-27-06, 04:25 PM	I like that idea about dividing the critical damage. Will Improved Toughness be available?? If so, will it add WP or VP?? I don't know how others rule it, but generally "flat" bonuses to hit points increase Wound points (such as Toughness). While things like Improved Toughness (which has a number based on hit dice) improve Vitality.