Vitality/Wounds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Vitality/Wounds [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Bohica
08-08-05, 10:12 AM If wounds are expected to represent the actual physical damage that a character takes isn't it odd that according to UA a character heals 1 point of wound damage per day per character level.

I believe this is a more realistic damage system and find it odd that characters could recover from sword and axe wounds so quickly. Is it unreasonable to only allow characters to recover 1 wound point per day period, and two at most with bed rest?

Bohica
Gold Katana
08-08-05, 11:15 AM Reasonable but BORING! It's an adventure game, not a replication of reality.
Sinaz
08-08-05, 12:45 PM If wounds are expected to represent the actual physical damage that a character takes isn't it odd that according to UA a character heals 1 point of wound damage per day per character level.

I believe this is a more realistic damage system and find it odd that characters could recover from sword and axe wounds so quickly. Is it unreasonable to only allow characters to recover 1 wound point per day period, and two at most with bed rest?

Bohica

It's not that unreasonable.

I'm not entirely familiar with the wound/vitality system. I do, however use a home grown wound system where you're HP will restore as normal, but your wounds, which accumulate penalties as a form of damage in area specific ways, heal at one point per day, period. So, if a character has wounds on his arm totaling -3 to the checks specific to his arms, then each day that penalty diminishes by 1... but his overall HP can totally heal. (oh, but each part of the body heals one point of wounds per day... forgot to specify that... so after one day of healing, outstanding wounds on the arm, leg, and torso will all heal by one point... but it's 1 point period like you suggested.)

You also have to consider that as the characters increase in level thier capacity for wounds increases... so healing only one point per day could draaaaag if a character is capable of suffering tons of wounds.
Gold Katana
08-08-05, 01:32 PM There is no site specific wounding.

One hp per day leads to massive down time at every level beyond 1st. In the pursuit of reason, you've created a very unreasonable situation: Pee Wee Herman gets knocked to within an inch of his life (down to 1 hp) while the same happens to Conan da' Barbarian. Now, Pee Wee's back to full health inside of two or three days, while Conan takes months to reach that level. That's why the healing goes up per level, to keep the healing rates equal.
Temrek
08-08-05, 02:19 PM Wounds are usually the same for a 1st level character as for a 20th level character as long as they have the same constitution score.

No its not unreasonable as long as healing magic fixes it too, you may also consider doubling it with long term care.
Bohica
08-08-05, 02:49 PM Thanks for your opinions. Boring or not, realistic is the way I like it.

Bohica
Ranger REG
08-09-05, 05:08 AM If wounds are expected to represent the actual physical damage that a character takes isn't it odd that according to UA a character heals 1 point of wound damage per day per character level.

I believe this is a more realistic damage system and find it odd that characters could recover from sword and axe wounds so quickly. Is it unreasonable to only allow characters to recover 1 wound point per day period, and two at most with bed rest?
That's up to you. In the suggestion above, it is not unreasonable. Some DMs may opt to allow wound healing rate equal to your Con bonus (minimum of 1) per day, or 1 + Con modifier (again minimum of 1).

Unearthed Arcana is just a "big book of variant rules."
Aurotuli
08-09-05, 05:51 PM Most characters in the game are NPCs, and most NPCs are first level, so assuming they are not killed by a longsword, say, they still take 4.5 average damage. Considering the cost of magical healing it will not be an option, so they will require 4 to 5 days to fully recover. Granted, that is not overly accurate, but then neither is the Wound / Vitality system.

If you want accuracy, state every day of full (day and night) rest grants +1/2 Wound healing, thus increasing the time to 8 to 10 days. Furthermore, state that unless magical healing is used there is a chance for infection - require a Con check (DC 5 to 10) verse a minor infection (say Fatigue, or Sickened, or both, or perhaps - even worse - Con 1, or Str 1, or one point of damage to some other ability score). This would be more accurate, but it would also be more problematic, especially if Con were chosen/rolled. Also, this would work best only at earliest levels, as at higher levels diseases are less worrying (at these DCs, anyhow) and magical healing - even if only Cure Minor Wounds - is common. Note that Cure Minor Wounds would be enough to prevent infection.

Finally, note that even if the above is used, I would still allow Vitality to restore itself as normal, as that is more a matter of stamina than actual wounds, and restoring one per character level per restful night or restful day makes sense. Sure the Wounds part healing that fast does not, but then it is meant to allow the characters to return to adventuring sooner rather than have them moaning in bed for several days as they recuperate from what would normally be considered a minor wound - at least in typical games.

I probably would also allow +1 Wound healing per restful day and night, as the idea of +1/2 Wound healed is almost as bad as +1/2 skill ranks or +1/2 level. Ability points in d20 should not be fragmented into halves (or quarters, for that matter). Hmm, say absolute bedrest for an entire day-night results in +1 wound healing, while restful - but not bedrest - days result in requiring twice as long to heal (two restful day-nights). No rest on the second day invalidates the benefit of the first (restful) day. That might work (for realism purposes). But be warned, increased realism can make for less enjoyable games unless your players like realism with all its gritty unpleasantness. Catching a chill (Dex 1, or Fatigue) from an infection might not be their cup of tea.
solandras
08-10-05, 05:51 AM My DM has it so Vitality comes back as HP normally do...level per day, then then has Wounds come back at 1/week...seeing as to realistically, people who get ran through with a long sword (take about 4-5 wounds) aren't going to get better anytime soon, so 4-5 days is crap, so 4-5 weeks makes a bit more sense.
Jerks
08-10-05, 09:25 PM I too think that Wounds/level/day is too much. One of the nice things about the Vit/Wound system is that your Wounds are divorced from your level. Star Wars rules had 1 Wound recovered per day of rest. So you basically had to go a whole day without getting beat on again to even begin to recover.

In my D&D "test" game in which I incorporated Vit/Wounds, this is the system I chose.

D&D has some pecularities as far as large monsters with bonus Wounds go. Of course, the healing rate of dragons and other such beasties is pretty much a non-issue as they either die in combat or they don't. You don't have to worry about it.
Bohica
08-11-05, 06:24 PM You guys are cruel when it comes to taking wound damage, but I like it. By forcing my characters to "heal up" I am allowing for my skill based characters to accomplish goals out of a dungeon, creating more opportunites for role-playing, and keeping the characters from going from levels 1 to 15 in a month's time.

I am currently running a magically toned down Dragonlance campaign. I am trying to keep the Solamnic culture as close to a feudal society as possible. This is forcing me to perform A LOT of overhauls to the Dragonlance settings. Regardless of everybody's opinions, we are having a great time adding the element of realism to the game. Making it necessary for the characters to heal with better help me to gauge just how much adventuring we can accomplish before events on the Dragonlance timeline begin to come into play. Thanks for the responses.

Bohica
Ranger REG
08-12-05, 05:31 AM My DM has it so Vitality comes back as HP normally do...level per day, then then has Wounds come back at 1/week...seeing as to realistically, people who get ran through with a long sword (take about 4-5 wounds) aren't going to get better anytime soon, so 4-5 days is crap, so 4-5 weeks makes a bit more sense.
I assume you keep separate track of any inflicting nonlethal damage? In VP/WP, damage (both normal and nonlethal) apply toward Vitality. If that is gone, then the Wound is next (the only way to inflict with nonlethal attack since they can't crit).
solandras
08-12-05, 11:07 AM people don't really ever do non-lethal, but in the few cases they do yeah it goes to vitality only. But we do it slightly different in that case as well...nothing too special.

If you take more than your max vitality, you need to make a fort save equal to that amount past

EX: your max is 100, you have taken (through non-lethal, otherwise it'd go to wounds) 110 vital damage, you make a fort save DC 10. It continues after each hit until you are knocked out.
Gold Katana
08-13-05, 10:35 AM a character heals 1 point of wound damage per day per character level

:embarrass Absolutely! Totally misread the initial post as Vitality points - which is how I was responding. Completely my fault. Sorry about that!

No, it's not unbalancing to change this. We haven't because it quickly becomes a null issue with magical healing.
Digitaldude745
08-13-05, 01:33 PM It might seem unfair that a first level character can regain all his HP in one day and that a high-level character would have to wait months, but think of all the items and spells at the disposal of the high-level characters. Even if you don't have great spellcasters, one or two cure light wounds a day would speed things up a lot, while if your cleric can cast heal, you will barely have to wait at all.
Gold Katana
08-13-05, 05:37 PM But with WP/VP, the higher level actually heals much faster, because WP totals are the same regardless of level. Therefore, a 6th leveler with CON 18 is fully healed after three days, while the 1st leveler with CON 18 takes 18 days.

However, VP's come back on 1 per level per hour.
Jerks
08-15-05, 10:28 AM Yeah, it doesn't make sense for Wound recovery to accelerate with level. Anything that is static as levels increase should not be affected by level gain. For example, ability damage heals the same no matter what level you are. A 20th level fighter drained of 4 Con takes just as long to recover from that as a 1st level fighter. Wounds should work the same way.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bohica 08-08-05, 10:12 AM	If wounds are expected to represent the actual physical damage that a character takes isn't it odd that according to UA a character heals 1 point of wound damage per day per character level. I believe this is a more realistic damage system and find it odd that characters could recover from sword and axe wounds so quickly. Is it unreasonable to only allow characters to recover 1 wound point per day period, and two at most with bed rest? Bohica
Gold Katana 08-08-05, 11:15 AM	Reasonable but BORING! It's an adventure game, not a replication of reality.
Sinaz 08-08-05, 12:45 PM	If wounds are expected to represent the actual physical damage that a character takes isn't it odd that according to UA a character heals 1 point of wound damage per day per character level. I believe this is a more realistic damage system and find it odd that characters could recover from sword and axe wounds so quickly. Is it unreasonable to only allow characters to recover 1 wound point per day period, and two at most with bed rest? Bohica It's not that unreasonable. I'm not entirely familiar with the wound/vitality system. I do, however use a home grown wound system where you're HP will restore as normal, but your wounds, which accumulate penalties as a form of damage in area specific ways, heal at one point per day, period. So, if a character has wounds on his arm totaling -3 to the checks specific to his arms, then each day that penalty diminishes by 1... but his overall HP can totally heal. (oh, but each part of the body heals one point of wounds per day... forgot to specify that... so after one day of healing, outstanding wounds on the arm, leg, and torso will all heal by one point... but it's 1 point period like you suggested.) You also have to consider that as the characters increase in level thier capacity for wounds increases... so healing only one point per day could draaaaag if a character is capable of suffering tons of wounds.
Gold Katana 08-08-05, 01:32 PM	There is no site specific wounding. One hp per day leads to massive down time at every level beyond 1st. In the pursuit of reason, you've created a very unreasonable situation: Pee Wee Herman gets knocked to within an inch of his life (down to 1 hp) while the same happens to Conan da' Barbarian. Now, Pee Wee's back to full health inside of two or three days, while Conan takes months to reach that level. That's why the healing goes up per level, to keep the healing rates equal.
Temrek 08-08-05, 02:19 PM	Wounds are usually the same for a 1st level character as for a 20th level character as long as they have the same constitution score. No its not unreasonable as long as healing magic fixes it too, you may also consider doubling it with long term care.
Bohica 08-08-05, 02:49 PM	Thanks for your opinions. Boring or not, realistic is the way I like it. Bohica
Ranger REG 08-09-05, 05:08 AM	If wounds are expected to represent the actual physical damage that a character takes isn't it odd that according to UA a character heals 1 point of wound damage per day per character level. I believe this is a more realistic damage system and find it odd that characters could recover from sword and axe wounds so quickly. Is it unreasonable to only allow characters to recover 1 wound point per day period, and two at most with bed rest? That's up to you. In the suggestion above, it is not unreasonable. Some DMs may opt to allow wound healing rate equal to your Con bonus (minimum of 1) per day, or 1 + Con modifier (again minimum of 1). Unearthed Arcana is just a "big book of variant rules."
Aurotuli 08-09-05, 05:51 PM	Most characters in the game are NPCs, and most NPCs are first level, so assuming they are not killed by a longsword, say, they still take 4.5 average damage. Considering the cost of magical healing it will not be an option, so they will require 4 to 5 days to fully recover. Granted, that is not overly accurate, but then neither is the Wound / Vitality system. If you want accuracy, state every day of full (day and night) rest grants +1/2 Wound healing, thus increasing the time to 8 to 10 days. Furthermore, state that unless magical healing is used there is a chance for infection - require a Con check (DC 5 to 10) verse a minor infection (say Fatigue, or Sickened, or both, or perhaps - even worse - Con 1, or Str 1, or one point of damage to some other ability score). This would be more accurate, but it would also be more problematic, especially if Con were chosen/rolled. Also, this would work best only at earliest levels, as at higher levels diseases are less worrying (at these DCs, anyhow) and magical healing - even if only Cure Minor Wounds - is common. Note that Cure Minor Wounds would be enough to prevent infection. Finally, note that even if the above is used, I would still allow Vitality to restore itself as normal, as that is more a matter of stamina than actual wounds, and restoring one per character level per restful night or restful day makes sense. Sure the Wounds part healing that fast does not, but then it is meant to allow the characters to return to adventuring sooner rather than have them moaning in bed for several days as they recuperate from what would normally be considered a minor wound - at least in typical games. I probably would also allow +1 Wound healing per restful day and night, as the idea of +1/2 Wound healed is almost as bad as +1/2 skill ranks or +1/2 level. Ability points in d20 should not be fragmented into halves (or quarters, for that matter). Hmm, say absolute bedrest for an entire day-night results in +1 wound healing, while restful - but not bedrest - days result in requiring twice as long to heal (two restful day-nights). No rest on the second day invalidates the benefit of the first (restful) day. That might work (for realism purposes). But be warned, increased realism can make for less enjoyable games unless your players like realism with all its gritty unpleasantness. Catching a chill (Dex 1, or Fatigue) from an infection might not be their cup of tea.
solandras 08-10-05, 05:51 AM	My DM has it so Vitality comes back as HP normally do...level per day, then then has Wounds come back at 1/week...seeing as to realistically, people who get ran through with a long sword (take about 4-5 wounds) aren't going to get better anytime soon, so 4-5 days is crap, so 4-5 weeks makes a bit more sense.
Jerks 08-10-05, 09:25 PM	I too think that Wounds/level/day is too much. One of the nice things about the Vit/Wound system is that your Wounds are divorced from your level. Star Wars rules had 1 Wound recovered per day of rest. So you basically had to go a whole day without getting beat on again to even begin to recover. In my D&D "test" game in which I incorporated Vit/Wounds, this is the system I chose. D&D has some pecularities as far as large monsters with bonus Wounds go. Of course, the healing rate of dragons and other such beasties is pretty much a non-issue as they either die in combat or they don't. You don't have to worry about it.
Bohica 08-11-05, 06:24 PM	You guys are cruel when it comes to taking wound damage, but I like it. By forcing my characters to "heal up" I am allowing for my skill based characters to accomplish goals out of a dungeon, creating more opportunites for role-playing, and keeping the characters from going from levels 1 to 15 in a month's time. I am currently running a magically toned down Dragonlance campaign. I am trying to keep the Solamnic culture as close to a feudal society as possible. This is forcing me to perform A LOT of overhauls to the Dragonlance settings. Regardless of everybody's opinions, we are having a great time adding the element of realism to the game. Making it necessary for the characters to heal with better help me to gauge just how much adventuring we can accomplish before events on the Dragonlance timeline begin to come into play. Thanks for the responses. Bohica
Ranger REG 08-12-05, 05:31 AM	My DM has it so Vitality comes back as HP normally do...level per day, then then has Wounds come back at 1/week...seeing as to realistically, people who get ran through with a long sword (take about 4-5 wounds) aren't going to get better anytime soon, so 4-5 days is crap, so 4-5 weeks makes a bit more sense. I assume you keep separate track of any inflicting nonlethal damage? In VP/WP, damage (both normal and nonlethal) apply toward Vitality. If that is gone, then the Wound is next (the only way to inflict with nonlethal attack since they can't crit).
solandras 08-12-05, 11:07 AM	people don't really ever do non-lethal, but in the few cases they do yeah it goes to vitality only. But we do it slightly different in that case as well...nothing too special. If you take more than your max vitality, you need to make a fort save equal to that amount past EX: your max is 100, you have taken (through non-lethal, otherwise it'd go to wounds) 110 vital damage, you make a fort save DC 10. It continues after each hit until you are knocked out.
Gold Katana 08-13-05, 10:35 AM	a character heals 1 point of wound damage per day per character level :embarrass Absolutely! Totally misread the initial post as Vitality points - which is how I was responding. Completely my fault. Sorry about that! No, it's not unbalancing to change this. We haven't because it quickly becomes a null issue with magical healing.
Digitaldude745 08-13-05, 01:33 PM	It might seem unfair that a first level character can regain all his HP in one day and that a high-level character would have to wait months, but think of all the items and spells at the disposal of the high-level characters. Even if you don't have great spellcasters, one or two cure light wounds a day would speed things up a lot, while if your cleric can cast heal, you will barely have to wait at all.
Gold Katana 08-13-05, 05:37 PM	But with WP/VP, the higher level actually heals much faster, because WP totals are the same regardless of level. Therefore, a 6th leveler with CON 18 is fully healed after three days, while the 1st leveler with CON 18 takes 18 days. However, VP's come back on 1 per level per hour.
Jerks 08-15-05, 10:28 AM	Yeah, it doesn't make sense for Wound recovery to accelerate with level. Anything that is static as levels increase should not be affected by level gain. For example, ability damage heals the same no matter what level you are. A 20th level fighter drained of 4 Con takes just as long to recover from that as a 1st level fighter. Wounds should work the same way.