Post/Author/DateTime	Post
porygandrew 06-22-06, 02:03 AM	Wow, I had a hard time choosing a place to post this question... In the second part of the Save My Game article about Vow of Poverty (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20060616a), it says that wizards cannot use Vow of Poverty because of the spellbook they have to carry around with them (only in not so many words). But I remember seeing something about alternative spellbooks in both Dragon magazine as well as in Complete Arcane (I think). Wouldn't a combination of knots, hair-braids, and skin modifying (i.e. tattoos, scarring, branding) add up to a cheap low-yeild alternate to a clunky spell book? I know there were some considerations based on rope/hair-length as well as skin area, but am unsure as to what those were. Concequently, (bear with me, this might be a little gross) would a grotesquely overweight wizard be able to utilize more 'skin area' for spells? I thought of the Wu-Jen with this article and was toying with the notion of a Wu-Jen with the Vow of Poverty ability. Oh yeah, for the record: I was going to place this in the Mature section because of the VoP, then I was going to place this in the skills/feats for the same reason, then the magic section for the spell book, then finally I decided to post it here since the main focus would be the talk on alternative spellbooks and their affect on the afforementioned article. ;)
runestar 06-22-06, 02:32 AM	One problem is that unless you have the collegiate wizard feat and maybe elven wiz racial sub lv1, you will have to contend with a measly 2 new spells/lv, since you will not be able to learn new spells outside of the 2 free ones granted each lv(they do cost money, you know). ;) It could be doable, I guess.
sorvikcorsair 06-22-06, 04:25 AM	You would be better off going sorc with vow of poverty. I would say as a DM no for spell casters, but might bend it for a Sorc.
Rhomphaia 06-22-06, 07:20 AM	You would be better off going sorc with vow of poverty. I would say as a DM no for spell casters, but might bend it for a Sorc. You'd say no to casters but still allow it for a monk or ranger? :thinks:
Millennium 06-22-06, 09:29 AM	You couldn't use tattoos, because that would require purchasing supplies. A half-orc wizard who uses ritual scarification in place of tattoos would be disturbingly cool, though. In Forgotten Realms terms perhaps he'd be a devoted follower of Ilmater or something. The hair-knot method -possibly better described as an elaborate system of braids- is also really nifty. I don't remember hearing about it before, but I like it.
porygandrew 06-22-06, 08:21 PM	You couldn't use tattoos, because that would require purchasing supplies... The hair-knot method -possibly better described as an elaborate system of braids- is also really nifty. I don't remember hearing about it before, but I like it. In the SRD, I found this: Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook Materials for writing the spell cost 100 gp per page. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for the spells she gains for free at each new level. So in my thinking, a Wu-Jen/Wizard/Spellbook-Caster who has sufficient ranks in Survival and Craft(_?_)/Use Rope would be able to collect enough raw materials for their own use for spells they gain at each respective level without violating the Vow of Poverty. Yes, a Sorcerer would be better, but I like to make interesting/challenging characters ;) :D
lostone 06-23-06, 11:25 AM	You couldn't use tattoos, because that would require purchasing supplies.People make their own supplies for this. It is possible to make your own inks and use a small bone from a bird (the kind that would be used as a needle). So in my thinking, a Wu-Jen/Wizard/Spellbook-Caster who has sufficient ranks in Survival and Craft(_?_)/Use Rope would be able to collect enough raw materials for their own use for spells they gain at each respective level without violating the Vow of Poverty. Yes, a Sorcerer would be better, but I like to make interesting/challenging characters ;) :DAgain, I think it would be possible for someone with a vow of poverty to make their own spellbook. Make your own inks, etc. However, high quality paper might be tough to pull. I think the high quality stuff would require some expensive property or a large investment in skills to make them. It would probably require blacksmithing, sewing (to make the silk screens), carpentry (to make the frames), whatever you use to make your own dyes, etc. Vellum might be a better alternative to high quality paper, but I'm not sure of the specifics for making vellum. However, the end result *is* a spellbook, which has value (15g for a blank spellbook), and since it contains magical spells, would it qualify as a magic item? With all the special rules surrounding adding spells to a spellbook, I think it might.
porygandrew 06-23-06, 11:55 AM	However, the end result *is* a spellbook, which has value (15g for a blank spellbook), and since it contains magical spells, would it qualify as a magic item? With all the special rules surrounding adding spells to a spellbook, I think it might. Well again, I bring up the SRD rules on a wizard's spellbook and that the spells the wizard gains at each level are not counted towards monetary or timely value. ADDING spells would, which would negate extra spells in the spellbook, but for a "raw wizard" that only has those spells from his/her levels, it would work. As for the question of whether or not a spellbook is a magic item or not, I have no clue :confused: I would think that it just gives instructions on how to cast particular spells without imbuing the subject with the power to actually cast them, just being a regular book with wierd, arcane writing. I can't find anything specific in the SRD about what exactly a spellbook is considered to be. (so.... RAW? :P) P.S. The idea of all those crafts for making a book is cool, but it'd be easier to not make a spell"Book" in the first place and go for alternative means of holding spells (like those I've already listed).
Millennium 06-23-06, 12:13 PM	People make their own supplies for this. It is possible to make your own inks and use a small bone from a bird (the kind that would be used as a needle). It's possible, but even though you've made your own tools, they're still material possessions outside what the vow allows you to possess. I suggested scarification as an alternative because it doesn't require tools outside what the VoP allows you to carry: a dagger will suffice, and you're allowed to carry a dagger as a simple weapon.