VP knockouts? [Archive] - Wizards Community

VP knockouts? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Keoki
03-15-04, 05:34 AM Sorry if this topic has already been brought up, but UA just came out here in Moscow, and I'd love to try the VP/WP rules, but I can't seem to figure out how one could achieve a knockout (with a sap, for example) under these rules? Do VP mean that you have to reduce an opponent to 0 WP to knock them out, then hope they don't die?
Jack Daniel
03-15-04, 09:52 AM Yeah, basically. As written, the VP/WP rules don't do a very good job of handling knockouts.

I appended a house rule that nonlethal attacks never deal wound damage -- instead, they drop you into negative vitality and force a Fortitude save vs. knockout.
bjorntfh
03-15-04, 04:09 PM I've ruled that VP work like HP with subdual damage (calculated seperately as normal) since I'm using the damage conversion system.

Of course it also meant that the PC in leather boots was immune to "normal" damage from very weak opponents, but it also meant that they'd sap him eventually.
DragonWatcher
03-15-04, 08:55 PM As stated, by the rules, VP don't allow for knockouts.

Two more variants:

Option 1:

If you take Vitality Damage (or nonlethal damage) in excess of your Con score, make a Fortitude Save (DC = Damage Taken) or get knocked out for 1d4 rounds.

Simple enough, but can make for easy knockouts with heavier weapons, and still doesn't allow for a sap to knock someone out.

Option 2:

If you crit on any hit that would normally be non-lethal damage (such as from a sap), the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage taken) or be knocked out for 1d4 rounds.

This option allows any non-lethal attack to have a chance to KO someone, but you have to crit (which isn't that easy). Take improved Critical with the sap, and you have a better chance.

Aww heck... just thought of one more:

Option 3:

Feat
Knockout Attack (General)
You can knock an opponent out easily with a sap or other bludgeoning weapon.
Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1, Power Attack
Benefit: When you use your power attack feat with the intent of knocking an opponent unconscious you make your attack normally (designating a penalty to your hit chance with normal Power Attack modifiers). If your attack succeeds, roll damage. Your opponent takes no damage, but instead is forced to make a Fortitude save (DC = 5 + Damage Dealt) or be knocked unconscious for 1d4 rounds.
Normal: Using the Vitality system, you can only knock an opponent out by reducing them to 0 wounds.
Special: A fighter may select Knockout Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats.

I hope some of these options help someone out there. :D
Keoki
03-16-04, 07:28 AM I think I might try just using nonlethal wound damage. Before I do this, can anyone think of any reasons it might not work?
Salla
03-16-04, 08:02 AM The only problem with nonlethal wound damage (besides a bit of an oxymoron with the name) would be refiguring what the various Fortitude Saves do when you're at zero 'subdual wounds'; probably just KOs instead of dead ...

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Keoki 03-15-04, 05:34 AM	Sorry if this topic has already been brought up, but UA just came out here in Moscow, and I'd love to try the VP/WP rules, but I can't seem to figure out how one could achieve a knockout (with a sap, for example) under these rules? Do VP mean that you have to reduce an opponent to 0 WP to knock them out, then hope they don't die?
Jack Daniel 03-15-04, 09:52 AM	Yeah, basically. As written, the VP/WP rules don't do a very good job of handling knockouts. I appended a house rule that nonlethal attacks never deal wound damage -- instead, they drop you into negative vitality and force a Fortitude save vs. knockout.
bjorntfh 03-15-04, 04:09 PM	I've ruled that VP work like HP with subdual damage (calculated seperately as normal) since I'm using the damage conversion system. Of course it also meant that the PC in leather boots was immune to "normal" damage from very weak opponents, but it also meant that they'd sap him eventually.
DragonWatcher 03-15-04, 08:55 PM	As stated, by the rules, VP don't allow for knockouts. Two more variants: Option 1: If you take Vitality Damage (or nonlethal damage) in excess of your Con score, make a Fortitude Save (DC = Damage Taken) or get knocked out for 1d4 rounds. Simple enough, but can make for easy knockouts with heavier weapons, and still doesn't allow for a sap to knock someone out. Option 2: If you crit on any hit that would normally be non-lethal damage (such as from a sap), the target must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + damage taken) or be knocked out for 1d4 rounds. This option allows any non-lethal attack to have a chance to KO someone, but you have to crit (which isn't that easy). Take improved Critical with the sap, and you have a better chance. Aww heck... just thought of one more: Option 3: Feat Knockout Attack (General) You can knock an opponent out easily with a sap or other bludgeoning weapon. Prerequisites: Base Attack Bonus +1, Power Attack Benefit: When you use your power attack feat with the intent of knocking an opponent unconscious you make your attack normally (designating a penalty to your hit chance with normal Power Attack modifiers). If your attack succeeds, roll damage. Your opponent takes no damage, but instead is forced to make a Fortitude save (DC = 5 + Damage Dealt) or be knocked unconscious for 1d4 rounds. Normal: Using the Vitality system, you can only knock an opponent out by reducing them to 0 wounds. Special: A fighter may select Knockout Attack as one of his fighter bonus feats. I hope some of these options help someone out there. :D
Keoki 03-16-04, 07:28 AM	I think I might try just using nonlethal wound damage. Before I do this, can anyone think of any reasons it might not work?
Salla 03-16-04, 08:02 AM	The only problem with nonlethal wound damage (besides a bit of an oxymoron with the name) would be refiguring what the various Fortitude Saves do when you're at zero 'subdual wounds'; probably just KOs instead of dead ...