VP/WP feedback [Archive] - Wizards Community

VP/WP feedback [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gold Katana
01-31-05, 01:13 PM Hey all,

We are seriously considering switching to the VP/WP system, using it exactly as written in UA. I'm very interested in hearing from others who have used it and whether they liked/disliked it and why. Thanks!
PaTRiXXX
02-02-05, 12:56 PM Yeah i'm also interested, how do you do to not get someone killed each 2 combats. Because at lvl 3 a fighter will likely have Con 16 --> 3 Wound Points so any critical from a shortsword or better weapon will likely drop him and if he is not lucky die. Probably there is something I'm not taking into account but it seems to me that it's a little bit hard for players.
Gold Katana
02-02-05, 01:06 PM With a CON 16, he would have WP16. For this case, you take the CON score, not the modifier.

One thing I will be adding, taking further damage will move someone from Disable to Dying, just like exertion and standard actions.
ManinDarkness
02-02-05, 01:07 PM Wound points are the Con score, not the modifier. What he said.
PaTRiXXX
02-02-05, 01:17 PM Well it is much better this way :) I knew I was missing something. Thank you.
Variant Rule added to the list.
Xandore
02-02-05, 03:14 PM The Toughness feat is more valueable as it adds 3 to wounds.
Ranger REG
02-02-05, 04:49 PM If you want to know about VP/WP experience, ask the Star Wars d20 gamers. That health system was introduced in their game since November 2000.
Nomad4life
02-05-05, 03:08 PM ((I just posted this under the SWRPG MB, but I wanted to repost it here as well.))

I have just switched to the U.A. DR/ WP/VP system for D&D as well. So far, I have encountered a few problems. These are:

1. Formerly “fodder” monsters, such as kobolds and goblins, are now much harder to kill. Although the CRs have been adjusted to reflect this, the “good ol’ days” of loping through hordes of kobolds via the great cleave feat are over.

2. Skeletons are now almost worthless, having the lowest number of wounds and no vitality points now.

3. Some magic items are now a bit askew. We’ve house ruled that the magic bonus from armor does stack with the character’s defense score, although the normal bonus for the armor does not, which is a bit awkward but it seems to work so far.

4. It has taken a lot of work to restructure the stats of several creatures from the MM. Gone are the “good ol’ days” where you can just glance at a page and have an instant ad-hoc encounter (at least until I get better at doing the math in my head.)

I do want to emphasize that despite these problems, the tradeoff has been worth it so far. Here are the elements our campaigns have gained:

1. Mortal vs. mortal combat has become far more cinematic and rewarding to describe. Players and opponents no longer just sit there and take blow after blow; they parry, dodge, roll, and spin to avoid those attacks! Very cool.

2. VP heals much faster than HP… No more “long boring down times” of camping for days/weeks to heal up before delving once more into the dungeon.

3. Combat becomes more tense, and real, as even the biggest, meanest bad guy of them all can find him/herself decapitated by one lucky stoke of a Halfling’s blade. (Of course, this can work both ways…)

4. Most rewarding to some, armor is no longer a MUST HAVE kind of thing. Bulky armor goes against some of the character concepts a few of my players had, such as the agile wizard, or the swashbuckling fighter. Now, they don’t have to put up with the ridiculous character image and added encumbrance!

In the end, this option works well for our adventures… But I must warn you that it isn’t for everyone.
Nomad4life
02-05-05, 04:18 PM Ohhhhh yeah. I should probably also mention that we play using the level-based class defense bonus.

Also damage reduction ONLY applies to wound points, as with the SWRPG.
starfire311
02-05-05, 05:55 PM I use VP/WP also I use armor as DR and class based Defense bonuses... It all seems to work nicely... One change I made was WP for non-herioc characters. I have it eqaul to what their HP would have been. I dont think a 2nd or 3rd level orc warrior should have the same WP as a 1st level orc warrior. Granted they still ahve no VP, but they get more WP as they level. Yes I know that this can lead to a 20th level warrior having insane amounts of WPs, but really I never have a non-heroic go higher than 4th-5th level.
Nomad4life
02-06-05, 11:14 PM I’ve encountered another problem with WP/VP while playtesting a scenario.

I’m using SWRPG based rules for armor; that is, the DR only protects you against WP damage.

However, when facing creatures with a magical DR, such as a wererat, this gets a little confusing… In these cases, the DR should apply to both the WP and the VP, I guess? Bizarre.

If anyone out there is using a similar mechanic, or if you’ve just got a good fix you can think of, lemme know.
starfire311
02-07-05, 09:47 AM I say DR only applies to damage done to WP... I also let DR from armor stack woth DR from natural armor and with the normal DR a creature mgith have.

So say a creature is wearing armor that grants DR 4/- and has natural armor that give 6/- and has DR 10/magic VS non-magic weapons the DR will be 20 vs magic it will be 10
Nomad4life
02-07-05, 11:37 AM Right, but then you get into this oddity:

Say a dwarf is hacking away at a werewolf with a non-magical axe. Once the were’s VPs had diminished, POOF, suddenly the dwarf can no longer harm the werewolf?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gold Katana 01-31-05, 01:13 PM	Hey all, We are seriously considering switching to the VP/WP system, using it exactly as written in UA. I'm very interested in hearing from others who have used it and whether they liked/disliked it and why. Thanks!
PaTRiXXX 02-02-05, 12:56 PM	Yeah i'm also interested, how do you do to not get someone killed each 2 combats. Because at lvl 3 a fighter will likely have Con 16 --> 3 Wound Points so any critical from a shortsword or better weapon will likely drop him and if he is not lucky die. Probably there is something I'm not taking into account but it seems to me that it's a little bit hard for players.
Gold Katana 02-02-05, 01:06 PM	With a CON 16, he would have WP16. For this case, you take the CON score, not the modifier. One thing I will be adding, taking further damage will move someone from Disable to Dying, just like exertion and standard actions.
ManinDarkness 02-02-05, 01:07 PM	Wound points are the Con score, not the modifier. What he said.
PaTRiXXX 02-02-05, 01:17 PM	Well it is much better this way :) I knew I was missing something. Thank you. Variant Rule added to the list.
Xandore 02-02-05, 03:14 PM	The Toughness feat is more valueable as it adds 3 to wounds.
Ranger REG 02-02-05, 04:49 PM	If you want to know about VP/WP experience, ask the Star Wars d20 gamers. That health system was introduced in their game since November 2000.
Nomad4life 02-05-05, 03:08 PM	((I just posted this under the SWRPG MB, but I wanted to repost it here as well.)) I have just switched to the U.A. DR/ WP/VP system for D&D as well. So far, I have encountered a few problems. These are: 1. Formerly “fodder” monsters, such as kobolds and goblins, are now much harder to kill. Although the CRs have been adjusted to reflect this, the “good ol’ days” of loping through hordes of kobolds via the great cleave feat are over. 2. Skeletons are now almost worthless, having the lowest number of wounds and no vitality points now. 3. Some magic items are now a bit askew. We’ve house ruled that the magic bonus from armor does stack with the character’s defense score, although the normal bonus for the armor does not, which is a bit awkward but it seems to work so far. 4. It has taken a lot of work to restructure the stats of several creatures from the MM. Gone are the “good ol’ days” where you can just glance at a page and have an instant ad-hoc encounter (at least until I get better at doing the math in my head.) I do want to emphasize that despite these problems, the tradeoff has been worth it so far. Here are the elements our campaigns have gained: 1. Mortal vs. mortal combat has become far more cinematic and rewarding to describe. Players and opponents no longer just sit there and take blow after blow; they parry, dodge, roll, and spin to avoid those attacks! Very cool. 2. VP heals much faster than HP… No more “long boring down times” of camping for days/weeks to heal up before delving once more into the dungeon. 3. Combat becomes more tense, and real, as even the biggest, meanest bad guy of them all can find him/herself decapitated by one lucky stoke of a Halfling’s blade. (Of course, this can work both ways…) 4. Most rewarding to some, armor is no longer a MUST HAVE kind of thing. Bulky armor goes against some of the character concepts a few of my players had, such as the agile wizard, or the swashbuckling fighter. Now, they don’t have to put up with the ridiculous character image and added encumbrance! In the end, this option works well for our adventures… But I must warn you that it isn’t for everyone.
Nomad4life 02-05-05, 04:18 PM	Ohhhhh yeah. I should probably also mention that we play using the level-based class defense bonus. Also damage reduction ONLY applies to wound points, as with the SWRPG.
starfire311 02-05-05, 05:55 PM	I use VP/WP also I use armor as DR and class based Defense bonuses... It all seems to work nicely... One change I made was WP for non-herioc characters. I have it eqaul to what their HP would have been. I dont think a 2nd or 3rd level orc warrior should have the same WP as a 1st level orc warrior. Granted they still ahve no VP, but they get more WP as they level. Yes I know that this can lead to a 20th level warrior having insane amounts of WPs, but really I never have a non-heroic go higher than 4th-5th level.
Nomad4life 02-06-05, 11:14 PM	I’ve encountered another problem with WP/VP while playtesting a scenario. I’m using SWRPG based rules for armor; that is, the DR only protects you against WP damage. However, when facing creatures with a magical DR, such as a wererat, this gets a little confusing… In these cases, the DR should apply to both the WP and the VP, I guess? Bizarre. If anyone out there is using a similar mechanic, or if you’ve just got a good fix you can think of, lemme know.
starfire311 02-07-05, 09:47 AM	I say DR only applies to damage done to WP... I also let DR from armor stack woth DR from natural armor and with the normal DR a creature mgith have. So say a creature is wearing armor that grants DR 4/- and has natural armor that give 6/- and has DR 10/magic VS non-magic weapons the DR will be 20 vs magic it will be 10
Nomad4life 02-07-05, 11:37 AM	Right, but then you get into this oddity: Say a dwarf is hacking away at a werewolf with a non-magical axe. Once the were’s VPs had diminished, POOF, suddenly the dwarf can no longer harm the werewolf?