Weapon Groups and Mulitclassing (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Weapon Groups and Mulitclassing (PEACH) [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
malakaiunseen
11-01-06, 09:46 AM How have ppl gone about weapon groups for multiclass characters?

EG
Fighter1 has Basic plus any four weapon groups. Say Axes, Heavy Blades, Bows, and Exotic.
He then multiclasses into Paladin,
I feel loathed to give him another three weapon groups, doesnt seem right, or balanced.
But I do feel that a Pally would for example be inclined to have a Weapon Group Spears and Lances added in there.
Whats a good way to word this variant rules without losing balance. I dont want a character to know how to use every single weapon just cause he went fighter1/pally1/ranger1 rather than just fighter3. But by the same token, I wouldn't mind if there was a way to allow new classes added to give some more flavour.
Simply by writing this post, I have thought of giving each class a small selection of groups which they can choose one of to add whenever the class is taken for the first time after level 1.
EG, pally can choose either heavy blades or spears and lances if said fighter multiclassed into pally. Ranger could have say, light blades, heavy blades and bows.
This system puts a lot of emphasis on the weapon training that a character gets at first level(and before) on much teh same way that skills do. But also has a perhaps negative drawback of typecasting classes even further by giving them specific weapon groups to choose from. If a character wants more, they have to take Weapon Group Proficiency feat.
Frankly I think it could work, but I'd like to hear what you guys think...
OneSidedDice
11-01-06, 11:06 AM I'm not completely familiar with the weapon group variant rule, but you could always say that a character multiclassing into a new class has the option of taking only one weapon group available to his new class.

This achieves an effect similar to what you wanted, and avoids typecasting.

For example, a fighter multiclassing into paladin could choose spears and lances if he wanted to, but he could just as easily choose heavy blades (these are just random examples, I have no idea what each class actually has available to it, having not read UA).
malakaiunseen
11-01-06, 11:17 AM thats just the problem. Most classes dont actually have a list to choose from, they just have a certain number to choose. So if I were to just say each new class equals one new weapon group from that class more often than not it just means one new weapon group full stop(only druids, sorcerors and wizards are actually restricted). If I do give certain classes their own lists just for the purpose of the first multiclass level taken, it will mean that if a fighter already knows how to wield heavy blades and spears and lances, he would not get another weapon group when multiclassing into paladin, as he already knows their distinctive weapons. However if a ranger who knew only axes, light blades and bows multiclassed into paladin, he could choose one of those two weapon groups to represent his need to train in paladin weaponry.
Make sense?
Anyway, I would hope to get some feedback from someone who had at least read the weapon group variant rules, not that I dont appreciate your input OSD. :D
OneSidedDice
11-01-06, 12:39 PM Anyway, I would hope to get some feedback from someone who had at least read the weapon group variant rules, not that I dont appreciate your input OSD.

Sure. But I'll say one last thing on the matter: What's the big deal if you just let someone multiclassing into another class pick up another weapon group?

It seems like it would be a nonissue. Let's say there's a fighter who knows bows, axes, and spears/lances, or whatever the appropriate groups are, and he multiclasses into paladin and picks up swords. Is he going to go out and get a new sword, because he's proficient with them now?

In my experience, characters tend to have a favorite weapon, and stick to it, even with the core rules of full weapon proficiency. If the fighter is focused in axes, for example, and gets the swords weapon group, it's unlikely he's going to start using a sword, so the extra proficiency doesn't really have any impact on the game.

It seems like smart martial characters will pick bows, a melee weapon group of choice, and then either spears and lances if they like mounted combat, or another melee weapon group that deals a different damage type. IMO, that's all you'd feasibly need: a ranged weapon, a primary melee weapon, and then either mounted damage or another damage type to help overcome DR. Anything else is unlikely to see play.

This is essentially what my core rules fighter/cleric does: He carries a bow in case he needs to make a ranged attack, normally fights with an axe, but keeps a warhammer around in case we meet up with the right kind of undead.

So basically my point is, don't sweat it.
Neofish
11-01-06, 07:36 PM The way I rule it, if you multicalss into a class that would grant you martial weapon proficiency, you instead gain a single weapon group.
rice830
11-03-06, 12:16 AM Ok, i've read quite a bit in weapon groups and had a few campaigns with it. So, what i think is fair is that say you start out as a ranger, then go into fighter you would gain one more, for a maximum of four. ok, then you go into palapdin for one reason or another, you would have to option of switching one of your weapon groups for one other one, still having four and making sure that you dont get prof. with every weapon. Depending on the DM the character can only do this for a certain number of times, or as many as he wants. It up to the DM, like i said. But, if the character wants more than four prof.s that he needs to devote a feat to it. But dont let characters get away with this, just keep them under control. Godd luck and i hope that i was help!
Neofish
11-03-06, 05:09 PM Ok, i've read quite a bit in weapon groups and had a few campaigns with it. So, what i think is fair is that say you start out as a ranger, then go into fighter you would gain one more, for a maximum of four. ok, then you go into palapdin for one reason or another, you would have to option of switching one of your weapon groups for one other one, still having four and making sure that you dont get prof. with every weapon. Depending on the DM the character can only do this for a certain number of times, or as many as he wants. It up to the DM, like i said. But, if the character wants more than four prof.s that he needs to devote a feat to it. But dont let characters get away with this, just keep them under control. Godd luck and i hope that i was help!

What? If the guy is gimping himself enough by multiclassing up the wazoo, then let him have his weapon group feats, it's not really a big deal having lots of weapon group feats in general. It's a big deal when he is someone gaining weapong focus in all of them, that's when it outta control.

Weapon group feats are supposed to power up feats like weapon focus and weapon specialization, that's all, if he can somehow boost all the groups with feats like those (like being a chameleon and swaping out his weapon focus feat every day to a knew group) then it would be outta hand.

Other than that, I wouldn't sweat it dude, unless you feel you now have to arm all of your NPC's with all sorts of different weapons so your player doen't complain when his loot isn't something more exotic that he can use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
malakaiunseen 11-01-06, 09:46 AM	How have ppl gone about weapon groups for multiclass characters? EG Fighter1 has Basic plus any four weapon groups. Say Axes, Heavy Blades, Bows, and Exotic. He then multiclasses into Paladin, I feel loathed to give him another three weapon groups, doesnt seem right, or balanced. But I do feel that a Pally would for example be inclined to have a Weapon Group Spears and Lances added in there. Whats a good way to word this variant rules without losing balance. I dont want a character to know how to use every single weapon just cause he went fighter1/pally1/ranger1 rather than just fighter3. But by the same token, I wouldn't mind if there was a way to allow new classes added to give some more flavour. Simply by writing this post, I have thought of giving each class a small selection of groups which they can choose one of to add whenever the class is taken for the first time after level 1. EG, pally can choose either heavy blades or spears and lances if said fighter multiclassed into pally. Ranger could have say, light blades, heavy blades and bows. This system puts a lot of emphasis on the weapon training that a character gets at first level(and before) on much teh same way that skills do. But also has a perhaps negative drawback of typecasting classes even further by giving them specific weapon groups to choose from. If a character wants more, they have to take Weapon Group Proficiency feat. Frankly I think it could work, but I'd like to hear what you guys think...
OneSidedDice 11-01-06, 11:06 AM	I'm not completely familiar with the weapon group variant rule, but you could always say that a character multiclassing into a new class has the option of taking only one weapon group available to his new class. This achieves an effect similar to what you wanted, and avoids typecasting. For example, a fighter multiclassing into paladin could choose spears and lances if he wanted to, but he could just as easily choose heavy blades (these are just random examples, I have no idea what each class actually has available to it, having not read UA).
malakaiunseen 11-01-06, 11:17 AM	thats just the problem. Most classes dont actually have a list to choose from, they just have a certain number to choose. So if I were to just say each new class equals one new weapon group from that class more often than not it just means one new weapon group full stop(only druids, sorcerors and wizards are actually restricted). If I do give certain classes their own lists just for the purpose of the first multiclass level taken, it will mean that if a fighter already knows how to wield heavy blades and spears and lances, he would not get another weapon group when multiclassing into paladin, as he already knows their distinctive weapons. However if a ranger who knew only axes, light blades and bows multiclassed into paladin, he could choose one of those two weapon groups to represent his need to train in paladin weaponry. Make sense? Anyway, I would hope to get some feedback from someone who had at least read the weapon group variant rules, not that I dont appreciate your input OSD. :D
OneSidedDice 11-01-06, 12:39 PM	Anyway, I would hope to get some feedback from someone who had at least read the weapon group variant rules, not that I dont appreciate your input OSD. Sure. But I'll say one last thing on the matter: What's the big deal if you just let someone multiclassing into another class pick up another weapon group? It seems like it would be a nonissue. Let's say there's a fighter who knows bows, axes, and spears/lances, or whatever the appropriate groups are, and he multiclasses into paladin and picks up swords. Is he going to go out and get a new sword, because he's proficient with them now? In my experience, characters tend to have a favorite weapon, and stick to it, even with the core rules of full weapon proficiency. If the fighter is focused in axes, for example, and gets the swords weapon group, it's unlikely he's going to start using a sword, so the extra proficiency doesn't really have any impact on the game. It seems like smart martial characters will pick bows, a melee weapon group of choice, and then either spears and lances if they like mounted combat, or another melee weapon group that deals a different damage type. IMO, that's all you'd feasibly need: a ranged weapon, a primary melee weapon, and then either mounted damage or another damage type to help overcome DR. Anything else is unlikely to see play. This is essentially what my core rules fighter/cleric does: He carries a bow in case he needs to make a ranged attack, normally fights with an axe, but keeps a warhammer around in case we meet up with the right kind of undead. So basically my point is, don't sweat it.
Neofish 11-01-06, 07:36 PM	The way I rule it, if you multicalss into a class that would grant you martial weapon proficiency, you instead gain a single weapon group.
rice830 11-03-06, 12:16 AM	Ok, i've read quite a bit in weapon groups and had a few campaigns with it. So, what i think is fair is that say you start out as a ranger, then go into fighter you would gain one more, for a maximum of four. ok, then you go into palapdin for one reason or another, you would have to option of switching one of your weapon groups for one other one, still having four and making sure that you dont get prof. with every weapon. Depending on the DM the character can only do this for a certain number of times, or as many as he wants. It up to the DM, like i said. But, if the character wants more than four prof.s that he needs to devote a feat to it. But dont let characters get away with this, just keep them under control. Godd luck and i hope that i was help!
Neofish 11-03-06, 05:09 PM	Ok, i've read quite a bit in weapon groups and had a few campaigns with it. So, what i think is fair is that say you start out as a ranger, then go into fighter you would gain one more, for a maximum of four. ok, then you go into palapdin for one reason or another, you would have to option of switching one of your weapon groups for one other one, still having four and making sure that you dont get prof. with every weapon. Depending on the DM the character can only do this for a certain number of times, or as many as he wants. It up to the DM, like i said. But, if the character wants more than four prof.s that he needs to devote a feat to it. But dont let characters get away with this, just keep them under control. Godd luck and i hope that i was help! What? If the guy is gimping himself enough by multiclassing up the wazoo, then let him have his weapon group feats, it's not really a big deal having lots of weapon group feats in general. It's a big deal when he is someone gaining weapong focus in all of them, that's when it outta control. Weapon group feats are supposed to power up feats like weapon focus and weapon specialization, that's all, if he can somehow boost all the groups with feats like those (like being a chameleon and swaping out his weapon focus feat every day to a knew group) then it would be outta hand. Other than that, I wouldn't sweat it dude, unless you feel you now have to arm all of your NPC's with all sorts of different weapons so your player doen't complain when his loot isn't something more exotic that he can use.