Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CowMasterTrojan 01-14-07, 11:20 AM	I'm just shooting around a idea here, so I'd appreciate some feedback. WEAPON POINTS Weapon points is a alternate system to weapon proficiency or weapon groups. Instead of receiving normal weapon proficieny from a characters class, they would instead recieve a amount of weapon points. (How much a certain class recieves is still in work. For now I'm using % to represent costs for changability). The character would then have to buy proficiency in weapons they would normally have/want. However it would be balanced in the fact that to get good weapons one would have to purchase similar weapons weapons of lower grades. First, all characters would have access to simple weapons. For the cheapest points price, characters could select any simple weapon that they wanted to be proficient with. We can call the cost for simple weapons 100%. When a character wanted to move onto a martial weapon they would pay a price, we will say 200%, and select a weapon. However to have martial weapons you must meet all but 1 of the prerequisites below. 1 Weapon can be used for multiple prerequisites A) You must have 2 Weapon proficiencies of simple catagory that must be of the same sub-catagory as the martial weapon being selected. For example: to have a martial one-handed weapon you must be proficient with 2 simple one-handed weapons. (You must always meet this prereq) B) You must have proficiency with 3 simple weapons (You must always meet this prereq) C) You must have proficiency in 1 weapon that does the same type of damage (I.E. Slashing, Bludgeoning, Piercing) D) You must have proficiency with 1 weapon that the same crit. Range E). You must have proficiency with 1 weapon that has the same crit. multiplier F) You must have proficiency with 1 weapon with the same damage die or one catagory lower. (For example, if the martial weapon is 1d8 then you need a weapon that does 1d6 or 1d8). Damage is determined by weapons of the same size. G) Special Qualities: (Note: Each special quality counts as it's own prequisite.) You must have proficiency with with 1 simple weapon that also has the special quality. (For Example: Weapon finese use, Reach, Double weapon, can be used to trip opponent, etc) H) You must have proficiency with a simple weapon that is thrown if the exotic weapon is a thrown weapon and you must have proficiency with a simple weapon that is shot if it is a weapon that is shot. (Ignore this prerequisite if it is not a ranged weapon) Characters can use martial weapon Proficiencies to qualify for other martial weapons. If for some reason a character cannot under any circumstances fullfil all but one of the prerequisites then they may add an additional +300% to the cost. Once Characters have martial weapon proficiencies they can buy exotic weapon proficiencies. Exotic weapon proficiencies cost 400%. Exotic weapons must meet all of the following prequisites. As before, 1 weapon can be used for multiple prerequisites. A) You must have 2 Weapon proficiencies of martial catagory that must be of the same sub-catagory as the exotic weapon being selected. For example: to have a exotic one-handed weapon you must be proficient with 2 martial one-handed weapons. (You must always meet this prereq) B) You must have proficiency with 4 simple weapons and 3 martial weapons(You must always meet this prereq) C) You must have proficiency in 1 weapon that does the same type of damage (I.E. Slashing, Bludgeoning, Piercing) D) You must have proficiency with 1 weapon that the same crit. Range E). You must have proficiency with 1 weapon that has the same crit. multiplier F) You must have proficiency with 1 weapon with the same damage die or one catagory lower. (For example, if the exotic weapon is 1d12 then you need a weapon that does 1d10 or 1d12). Damage is determined by weapons of the same size. G) Special Qualities: (Note: Each special quality counts as it's own prequisite.) You must have proficiency with with 1 simple weapon that also has the special quality. (For Example: Weapon finese use, Reach, Double weapon, can be used to trip opponent, etc) H) You must have proficiency with a martial weapon that is thrown if the exotic weapon is a thrown weapon and you must have proficiency with a martial weapon that is shot if it is a weapon that is shot. (Ignore this prerequisite if it is not a ranged weapon) Characters can use exotic weapon Proficiencies to qualify for other exotic weapons. If for some reason a character cannot under any circumstances fullfil all of the prerequisites then they may add an additional +300% to the cost plus an additional 100% for each additional prerequisite they cannot meet. Characters that would not normally have proficiency with a simple or martial weapon must pay an additional cost of 100%. Races that grant proficiencies with weapons treat those weapons as -200% cost. Note however that this cost can never go below 0% and a character is not proficient with a weapon unless they meet the prequisites even if it costs nothing. The Improved Weapon Familiarity makes racial weapons -400% cost. Every level characters recieve a very small amount of weapon points that can immediatly be used or saved. The amount recieved is based on BAB. Poor BAB= 50%. Average BAB=100%. Good=200%. Fighters recieve an additional 200% points at every odd level beyond level 1. (thus making it so they aren't as completely screwed). Skill points can be used to buy weapons on a 1:100% ratio. Pro's: -Flexibility in types of weapons known increases -Characters with poor weapon proficiencies are still likely to take martial weapons -Characters don't have to waste a precious feat on weapons that are only sub-optimal -The weapons a character knows reflects his training much better than before. -Wizards may actually use a weapon at higher levels Con's -Characters are proficient with less weapons this way -It smells of 2nd edition -It's more complicated
Tim4488 01-14-07, 08:24 PM	Yeah I'm gonna go with that complication con myself. Especially the prerequisites. Is there even a simple weapon that is used for tripping? Or one with +2 to disarm? I'm pretty sure there isn't, so that'd make it impossible to use, well, a lot of things. IMHO, all but one of your pros are covered by Weapon Groups already. Flexibility? Ayup. Characters getting access to martial weapons? Ayup. Characters don't have to waste a feat? Weapon groups replace standard proficiences at 1st level, there ya go, problem solved. Weapons reflect training? The main reason I started using weapon groups. Wizards get weapons? Well okay, weapon groups doesn't help that much. Except elven wizards, who actually get more weapons. Although I suppose you could argue that wizards gaining access to repeating crossbows is a benefit. Honestly this system just looks... clunky. Especially with something with a lot of the same ups already in place. If you're really worried about wizards, just change their 1st level proficiencies, maybe Spears or Crossbows instead of Basic or Crossbows.
Dougan Axehammer 01-15-07, 12:08 AM	I actually had a similar idea. It seems like a throwback to 2nd Edition, but it went like this: Instead of chosing weapon feats, the character would learn how to use weapons in the same fashion as other skills. All weapons would start as cross-class trained only skills (maybe even make max-ranks equal to the character level); weapon proficiencies (or weapon groups) would make certain weapons class skills (for instance the "monk" weapon group would make quarterstaffs(sp?), kamas, and the like class skills). When using a weapon, instead of using a class based attack bonus, you would make an appropriate skill check for the weapon used. Granted this would change how the class system works, but I think it makes for a more realistic character. Any opinions?
CowMasterTrojan 01-15-07, 12:23 AM	Yeah I'm gonna go with that complication con myself. Especially the prerequisites. Is there even a simple weapon that is used for tripping? Or one with +2 to disarm? I'm pretty sure there isn't, so that'd make it impossible to use, well, a lot of things. Yes, well if you read the text better it says for martial weapons that you have to meet all but 1 prereq. Therefore for weapons where there are no precident you can bypass it. IMHO, all but one of your pros are covered by Weapon Groups already. Flexibility? Ayup. Characters getting access to martial weapons? Ayup. Characters don't have to waste a feat? Weapon groups replace standard proficiences at 1st level, there ya go, problem solved. Weapons reflect training? The main reason I started using weapon groups. Wizards get weapons? Well okay, weapon groups doesn't help that much. Except elven wizards, who actually get more weapons. Although I suppose you could argue that wizards gaining access to repeating crossbows is a benefit. Yes, well this way a warrior isn't proficient with every good weapon. I mean, weapon group exotic only has a prereq of +1. Thats a lot of good stuff for the loss of 1 group (is it really a loss?). This retains the limited use exotic weapons but still allows characters to use them without gimping themselves through sacrifcing a feat. Honestly this system just looks... clunky. Especially with something with a lot of the same ups already in place. If you're really worried about wizards, just change their 1st level proficiencies, maybe Spears or Crossbows instead of Basic or Crossbows. Honestly my motivation in doing this is because I think exotic weapons are a rip off for costing a feat. I dont care if wizards can use good weapons at higher levels, but its just a added perk. It's more about the human swashbuckler that wants to fight with a rapier and a elven shortblade without having to give up a feat that they really can't sacrifice. And of course it looks clunky, this is a first draft version.
CowMasterTrojan 01-15-07, 12:25 AM	I actually had a similar idea. It seems like a throwback to 2nd Edition, but it went like this: Instead of chosing weapon feats, the character would learn how to use weapons in the same fashion as other skills. All weapons would start as cross-class trained only skills (maybe even make max-ranks equal to the character level); weapon proficiencies (or weapon groups) would make certain weapons class skills (for instance the "monk" weapon group would make quarterstaffs(sp?), kamas, and the like class skills). When using a weapon, instead of using a class based attack bonus, you would make an appropriate skill check for the weapon used. Granted this would change how the class system works, but I think it makes for a more realistic character. Any opinions? That sounds like it would hurt the melee characters more than help them. Of course I'm not sure if I'm understanding it correctly.
Dougan Axehammer 01-15-07, 01:26 AM	That sounds like it would hurt the melee characters more than help them. Of course I'm not sure if I'm understanding it correctly. Well, I haven't quite figured out how it would work yet; it was actually an idea I had for a "Generic d20" game that I was thinking about drafting some time ago. But it could also work in their favor: instead of having a +1 AB with all weapons, they could have a +4 AB with their weapons of choice. As I said, it was just an idea.
CowMasterTrojan 01-15-07, 02:15 PM	Well, I haven't quite figured out how it would work yet; it was actually an idea I had for a "Generic d20" game that I was thinking about drafting some time ago. But it could also work in their favor: instead of having a +1 AB with all weapons, they could have a +4 AB with their weapons of choice. As I said, it was just an idea. Oh, I got it. Your just playing around with a idea like myself. It sounds like a decent idea.