Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Xavon 04-04-07, 10:13 PM	I've been working on an idea to replace BAB with weapons skills (and at the same time try to rebalance the fighter [sorry]), but I'm not sure what I should do with armor... Weapons Skills Instead of a universal, and overarcing "Base Attack Bonus"; this method presumes each weapon (or small group of similar weapons) requires its own unique skill. Therefore, each class loses its base attack bonus and proficient weapons; and gains a list of Class and Cross-Class weapons skills and additional skill points that must be spent on weapon skills. A player may also spend his skill points from his regular allotment on weapons skills. Weapons skill points are based of the BAB and proficiencies lost as follows. As with standard skill points, the player gains 4 times as many skill points at first level. If the total from below is not a whole number, round down. From BAB: +2 (Full BAB) +1 (3/4 BAB) +.5 (1/2 BAB) From weapons proficiencies +0 (all simple weapons) +1 (Specific weapons set, ala Rogue or Monk) +2 (All simple and martial weapons) Other: +.5 (full spell casting) +1 (fighter) Fighters get the Simple Weapons Group, all Martial Weapons Groups, and all Exotic Weapons as class skills. All classes with all simple and martial weapons get the Simple Weapons group, and all Martial Weapons (individually) as class skills. All other classes get their normally proficient weapons as individual Weapon Class skills. All characters have Unarmed Attack as a class skill. ------------------------- It's still a work in progress, and any help would be appreciated. But I'm not sure what to do with armor. The three ideas I have are: 1. Leave it alone. Simple and easy. 2. Armor as a skill; Armor Skill as AC. Each individual armor type will provide a small AC boost, and potentially some DR. Makes individual armor less important, but requires more skill tracking. 3. Armor skills as a requiremetn to use armor effectively; high armor skill providing slight AC boosts, and reduction in Armor check and Dex penalties.
Thomar_of_Uointer 04-05-07, 01:56 AM	Hmm... Can't you just make them work like normal skill points? Then you could give each class (and maybe race as a baseline) a set number of skill points specifically for proficiencies. This keeps it part of the core skill system, and keeps weapon training just like developing any other skill. I would say individual simple weapons cost 1 skill point, martial cost 2, and exotic cost 3. Same for armor, light armors (and buckler) would cost 1, medium (and small and large shields) would cost 2, and heavy (and tower shields) cost 3. This would not replace the feats and class proficiencies, rather it would be another way to get them.
IronMouse 04-05-07, 07:39 AM	I suggest number 3. Just use the armor check penality (or make up own numbers). Under the current system, it's applied not only to the usual skills, but "to attack rolls and to all skill checks that involve moving, including Ride" when you are not proficient with the armor. Now, instead of removing that with a feat, reduce it with the skill. For every rank, the penality on said rolls is reduced by 1. To wear a breastplate normally, you would need 4 ranks in the armor skill, for example. When you have 3 you get -1 on said rolls. Having a higher skill than neccessary could give you some bonusses, then, but make sure that someone with 15+ ranks or so doesn't have better protection in leather than in full plate.
Arcade 04-05-07, 11:09 AM	So, if I understand, every character can have full BAB in the weapon of their choice, albeit likely in a smaller group of weapons? Sort of makes the fighter even less powerful, doesn't it? Most characters only need 2 or 3 weapons anyway, so they can now trade in proficiency for weapons they were never going to use for full BAB on the weapons they always loved and adored.
starfire311 04-05-07, 07:15 PM	So, if I understand, every character can have full BAB in the weapon of their choice, albeit likely in a smaller group of weapons? Sort of makes the fighter even less powerful, doesn't it? Most characters only need 2 or 3 weapons anyway, so they can now trade in proficiency for weapons they were never going to use for full BAB on the weapons they always loved and adored. exactly this is the hardest balancing factor IMO, so what if I only get to use a handful of weapons as a monk, I can make them all Full BAB. I really love the concept of using weapn skill/armor skill, but it is just too dang hard to implement.... look at M&M some time for a similar system, that was able to implement a similar concept.
alzoron 04-06-07, 08:24 AM	Treat the weapon skills as normal skills, including treating them as cross-class/class skills. Require Weapon Proficiency (simple/martial/exotic) to gain ranks as a cross-class skill. Require Weapon Focus to gain ranks as a class skill. Maybe even make up a new feat altogether to use instead of Weapon Focus Characters like fighters and the like already have profieciencies so they have only one feat in the way, but sorcerers and the like will have to take multiple feats if they want to use weapons effectively.
starfire311 04-06-07, 08:29 AM	Treat the weapon skills as normal skills, including treating them as cross-class/class skills. Require Weapon Proficiency (simple/martial/exotic) to gain ranks as a cross-class skill. Require Weapon Focus to gain ranks as a class skill. Maybe even make up a new feat altogether to use instead of Weapon Focus Characters like fighters and the like already have profieciencies so they have only one feat in the way, but sorcerers and the like will have to take multiple feats if they want to use weapons effectively. not true sorcerors will have simple weapon proficiency, so they would only need to spend one feat, in this system, to gain a simple weapon as a class skill, the same feat a fighter would need to spend. the only way to make this work wel is to do it kinda like WoW. It is entirely possible in WoW for a mage and a warrior, of the same level, to have the same weapon skill, but the warrior will be many times better with his weapon, because he gains a lot bonuses to use it from his class, and his stats that pertain to melee combat will be far superior to the mages, in the instance the stats and the class are far more important than weapon skill. BTW, I really love the concept of weapon skill, and if I get sometime I may post a system that I am thinking about this weekend.
Kineon_War 04-06-07, 10:35 AM	I like where you are going with this idea. My suggestion is to use the weapon groups as a skill. Maintain the skill rank maximum to avoid abuse. For armour, adapt a damage reduction system rather than a harder-to-hit system. Problem solved.