Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Flayer 08-28-05, 07:32 PM	like the title what is it
Kursk 08-28-05, 08:11 PM	"The "gestalt" character class variant is a brand-new system for playing super-powerful D&D characters (by combining any two classes into one at each level)." It's an official way to be a non-role playing munchkin.
GreyLord 08-28-05, 08:55 PM	Basically, it's another way of doing multiclassing more similar to how it was done in older editions. You combine two classes and have them at the same time picking the best out of each per each level. So if you were a fighter/Wizard, you would get to have all the armor and weapons allowed to the fighter, use the best saves from each, use the fighters BAB, get the fighters Hitpoints, and cast spells as a wizard. When you advance to level 2 you get the same types of items that occur. Best BAB, HP, Saves, bonus feat, and spells as a wizard. You can't really change into another class since a gestalt is stuck with the original classes they multi'd into. However you can eventually get a prestige class (but only one) if you so desire to get a prestige class at a later level. However most don't as that underpowers them a little more than if they had stayed as the straight classes they already had.
Kintara 08-28-05, 09:09 PM	You can't really change into another class since a gestalt is stuck with the original classes they multi'd into. However you can eventually get a prestige class (but only one) if you so desire to get a prestige class at a later level. However most don't as that underpowers them a little more than if they had stayed as the straight classes they already had.Well, that's not official. The rules don't mandate only one possible prestige class, and no other multiclassing at all. The rules do state that you should be limited to leveling in one prestige class at a time, but nothing stops you from taking more core classes at any time, or taking different prestige classes (as long as you aren't taking another one at the same time). I'm not saying that this isn't a good way to rule it as a DM, but it's not part of the given rules, exactly. DMs should probably work out some details on how gestalts are going to work before using them, though.
Flayer 08-28-05, 11:19 PM	could you combine two prestige classes
GreyLord 08-29-05, 12:10 AM	Well, that's not official. The rules don't mandate only one possible prestige class, and no other multiclassing at all. The rules do state that you should be limited to leveling in one prestige class at a time, but nothing stops you from taking more core classes at any time, or taking different prestige classes (as long as you aren't taking another one at the same time). I'm not saying that this isn't a good way to rule it as a DM, but it's not part of the given rules, exactly. DMs should probably work out some details on how gestalts are going to work before using them, though. Well the fact that it states that you can only have two classes max for a Gestalt I interpreted as meaning only two classes. Afterall, you have class/class, but if you gain a third class then it's class/class/class. At least how I interpreted the rules...which probably means the rules are open to interpretation.
Tyler Do'Urden 08-29-05, 06:00 AM	could you combine two prestige classes No. Before you Copyright Paladins jump down my throat, UA is open content. Check the little legal blurb at the beginning of the book. GESTALT CHARACTERS In this high-powered campaign variant, characters essentially take two classes at every level, choosing the best aspects of each. The process is similar to multiclassing, except that character gain the full benefits of each class at each level. If the two classes you choose have aspects that overlap (such as Hit Dice, attack progression, saves, and class features common to more than one class), you choose the better aspect. The gestalt characters retain all aspects that don't overlap. The gestalt character variant is particularly effective if you have three or fewer players in your D&D group, or if your players enjoy multiclassing and want characters with truly prodigious powers. This variant works only if every PC in the campaign uses it, and it results in complicated characters who may overwhelm newer D&D players with an abundance of options. BUILDING A GESTALT CHARACTER To make a 1st-level gestalt character, choose two standard D&D classes. (You can also choose any of the variant classes in this book, though you can't combine two versions of the same class.) Build your character according to the following guidelines. Hit Dice: Choose the larger Hit Die. A monk/sorcerer would use d8 as her Hit Die and have 8 hit points (plus Constitution modifier) at 1st level, for example. Base Attack Bonus: Choose the better progression from the two classes (equal to level, three-quarters of level, or half of level). Base Saving Throw Bonuses: For each save bonus, choose the better progression from the two classes. For example, a 1st-level gestalt fighter/wizard would have base saving throw bonuses of Fortitude +2, Reflex +0, Will +2—taking the good Fortitude save from the fighter class and the good Will save from the wizard class. Class Skills: Take the number of skill points gained per level from whichever class grants more skill points, and consider any skill on either class list as a class skill for the gestalt character. For example, a gestalt barbarian/bard would gain skill points equal to 6 + Int modifier (and have four times this amount at 1st level), and can purchase skills from both the barbarian and bard lists as class skills. Class Features: A gestalt character gains the class features of both classes. A 1st-level gestalt rogue/cleric, for example, gets sneak attack +1d6, trapfinding, 1st-level cleric spells, and the ability to turn or rebuke undead. Class- and ability-based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a druid's prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other class is. A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best apsects of each, and applies them to his characteristics. A few caveats apply, however. Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class. A 5th-level barbarian/rogue would have improved uncanny dodge. Gestalt characters with more than one spellcasting class keep track of their spells per day separately. A gestalt character can't combine two prestige classes at any level, although it's okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations—such as the arcane trickster, cerebremancer, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight—should be prohibited if you're using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what's already a high-powered variant. Because it's possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the DM is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it's available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters. Gestalt Combinations Because the player of a gestalt character chooses two classes at every level, the possibilities for gestalt characters are almost limitless. The following combinations are particularly potent. Barbarian/Bard: The "bardarian" has two choices in a battle: use a mix of party-aiding spells and attacks, or rage and use inspirational music to urge the rest of the party on as he attacks. Only the bardic music abilities that actually require a perform check (such as countersong and fascinate) are off limits during a rage. Neither barbarians nor bards wear heavy armor, so gear selection is straightforward. Barbarian/Wizard: The barbarian brings that d12 Hit Die to the table, and that's almost all that matters to the fragile wizard. A good Fortitude save is sure to save the gestalt character's hide a few times, and a high-Intelligence character benefits greatly from the union of two disparate class skill lists. And as a bonus, you're literate at 1st level. The only downside? You can't cast spells in a rage. This combination deliberately tweaks the stereotypes of both classes, so you'll want to spend some time thinking about your character's backstory. Cleric/Sorcerer: This gestalt combination is effectively the mystic theurge prestige class on steroids. You can load up on combat spells as a sorcerer, then prepare utility and protective spells as a cleric---which you can always spontaneously cast as healing spells if you like. As a side benefit, your high charisma helps both your arcane spellcasting and your ability to turn undead. Druid/Ranger: With the ranger's base attack bonus, you'll be a more effective combatant when you wild shape into a predator. The extra skills of a ranger are welcome, and if you choose the archery combat style, you'll be ready for both ranged combat and an up-close fight in wild shape form. Fighter/Ranger: If you like feats, this is the class for you. Most fighters must choose whether to split their feats between melee and ranged combat or emphasize one kind of attack at the expense of the other. The fighter/ranger can have it both ways, relying on the fighter bonus feats to improve melee attacks and the ranger's combat style, improved combat style, and combat style mastery to pick up three good archery feats. Fighter/Rogue: Every rogue likes to get behind the enemy and dish out sneak attack damage. With this gestalt combination, that trick gets even better because you have the hit points and Armor Class to survive toe-to-toe with the enemy, you'll hit more often and you get more attacks, which just means more chances to pick up a fistful of d6s. You can wear heavy armor, but you'll degrade some of your better skills and you'll lose access to evasion. Monk/Sorcerer and Monk/Wizard: With three good saves, more hit points, and the best unarmored Armor Class, the monk covers up many of the weak points of the sorcerer or wizard. The only downside is that the important ability scores for sorcerers and wizards---Charisma and Intelligence---are the two ability scores that the monk cares least about. This can be a tough combination to pull off, especially if you're using point-based ability score generation. Paladin/Sorcerer: Charisma does the heavy lifting for this gestalt combination. Why? Two words: divine grace. Like all sorcerers, you'll send your Charisma score into the stratosphere with the every-four-levels improvement and the best cloak of Charisma you can afford. Every time you get more spells, your saving throws improve as well. The downside? You can't wear armor like most paladins. Sorcerer/Wizard: Unlike most gestalt characters, your hit points, Armor Class, base attack bonus, and saving throws aren't any better than a standard sorcerer or wizard. But oh, the spells you can cast! Unlike a standard arcane spellcaster, you can afford to use your highest-level spells in most of your serious fights. It's a good idea to use your sorcerer slots on combat spells (such as the ubiquitous fireball) and the occasional defense or utility spell (perhaps mage armor or haste). Then you can use your wizard slots for spells that are great against specific foes (such as dismissal) or life-savers in specific situations (gaseous form). You can gamble a little more with your wizard spell selection because you know you have all those useful sorcerer spells backing you up. BALANCING GESTALT CHARACTERS (stop laughing) Obviously, this variant results in characters who are significantly more powerful than the D&D standard. But how much more powerful? the simple answer---that gestalt characters are twice as powerful as standard characters---isn't accurate. Gestalt characters don't have an advantage in the most important currency in D&D: available actions. Even a character who can fight like a barbarian and cast spells like a sorcerer can't do both in the same round. A gestalt character can't be in two places at once as two separate characters can be. Gestalt characters who try to fulfill two party roles (melee fighter and spellcaster, for example) find they must split their feat choices, ability score improvements, and gear selection between their two functions. While a gestalt character isn't as powerful as two characters of equal level, a gestalt character is more powerful than a standard character. Hit points will always be at least equal to those of a standard character, saving throws will almost certainly be better, and gestalt characters have versatility that standard characters can't achieve without multiclassing. Furthermore, a party of gestalt characters has greater durability and many more spells per day, so they can often take on six or more consecutive encounters without stopping to rest and prepare more spells. Your players may be excited by the chance to play fighters with powerful sneak attacks or spellcasters who can cast any spell in the Player's Handbook. But as the DM, you know that the only measure of PC power that matters is the comparison with NPC power. By throwing monsters of higher Challenge Ratings at them, you'll still be giving them significant challenges. Gestalt characters look superior compared to standard D&D characters, but that's a false comparison. With this variant, such "standard" D&D characters don't exist. Here's how to build a campaign that can handle gestalt characters. Challenge Ratings: Gestalt characters can obviously handel more opposition than standard characters. The simples way to compensate for this is to use adventures with tougher monsters. In general, a party of four gestalt characters can handle multiple encounters with a single monster of a Challenge Rating equal to their average level + 1. If the monster poses a challenge because it forces the characters to succeed on life-threatening saving throws (such as with a medusa or a wyvern), it's even weaker atgainst gestalt characters who have few or no weak saves. Characers can handle multiple encounters with such monsters at a Challenge Rating equal to their average level + 2. A shambling mound (CR 6) or a medusa (CR 7) would be appropriate average encounters for four 5th-level gestalt characters. If you take this approach, realize that characters gain levels faster than in a typical D&D campaign, because they're gaining experience points as if those encounters were harder than they actually are. You're obviously comfortable with a high-powered game, so faster advancement may be an additional benefit, not a problem. If you rely on published adventures, this is the easiest option. If you want to keep level advancement at the standard D&D average of thirteen encounters per level, reduce the Challenge Ratings of all the monsters and NPCs in your campaign by 1 (or by 2 if they rely on failed PC saving throws to pose a challenge). The shambling mound and the medusa would both become CR 5 monsters, and the gestalt characters gain levels at the usual rate. Monsters with a Challenge Rating of 1 become CR 1/2, and other monsters with fractional Challenge Ratings have their CRs cut in half (kobolds become CR 1/6, in other words). Many staple low-CR monsters don't work well gainst a party of gestalt characters, even 1st-level gestalts. Adventure Design: Once you adjust the Challenge Ratings, you have one more subtle factor to consider when you design adventures for gestalt characters. You must take into account the greater "adventure stamina" of gestalt characters both when you're preparing an adventure and when you're at the gaming table running the adventure. Because gestalt characters have more hit points, better saving throws, and deeper spellcasting lists than standard D&D characters, they can safely tackle more encounters in a row before they run low on hit points and spells. Gestalt characters can, for example, delve deeply into a dungeon on their first foray, when the dungeon denizens may not be expecting them. The defenders of any site in a site-based adventure can't rely on wearing out a party of gestalt characters. They have to pose enough of a threat that the gestalt characters retreat because they're worried about their hides, not just because the wizard is almost out of spells. In event-based adventures, gestalt characters can wreak havoc with timetables because they have more resources at their disposal. For example, a 10th-level gestalt wizard/sorcerer can easily teleport the entire party four times a day---without resorting to scrolls. That means two round trips to visit the wizened sage who's an expert in rune translation, each in the blink of an eye. At the gaming table, you may want to plan longer gaming sessions because rest periods for the characters are natural stopping points for the players, and gestalt characters have fewer rest periods. If you do stop in the middle of the action, encourage your players to take careful notes of which class abilities they expend, which spells they have active, and other relevant information. Gestalt characters are complex enough that relying solely on memory is a recipe for trouble. NPCs: An important aspect of most campaigns is verisimilitude—which is centered on the notion that everything in the campaign world is obeying the same set of rules. Accordingly, any important NPCs in your game should also be gestalt characters. It's probably not necessary to have low-level noncombatant NPCs pick two classes, but any NPCs above 1st level should be constructed as gestalt characters. (NPCs with levels only in NPC classes—adept, aristocrat, commoner, expert, and warrior—can remain standard characters.) Prestige Classes: The high-powered nature of the gestalt character variant gives you more room to create unique prestige classes. First, you can create narrowly specialized prestige classes, and they'll still be compelling choices for PCs because the characters can simultaneously advance in a regular class while taking levels in the prestige class. Players won't feel shoehorned into a very specific prestige class if they have another class they're also advancing in. Second, you can create truly outrageous prestige classes---but add the additional cost that such classes take up both class choices for gestalt characters. For example, a prestige class that offered a d12 Hit Die, +1/level base attack bonus, two good saves, full spellcasting, and a host of class features would be completely unbalanced in a standard D&D game. But if it takes up both "class slots" for a gestalt character, it's no more powerful than taking a level in the barbarian/wizard gestalt. Campaign Pacing: Once it is adjusted as outlined above, a campaign that employs gestalt characters isn't that different from a standard D&D campaign. Gestalt characters don't gain access to key campaign-changing abilities faster than their standard counterparts. No gestalt character can use teleport or raise the dead under her own power before 9th level, and no non-monk gestalt character gets a second melee attack in a round before 6th level. Gestalt characters get to tackle monsters a level or two ahead of time, but they're still fighting gnolls at low levels, beholders at middle levels, and balors at high levels. Perhaps the only noticeable difference in terms of campaign pacing is that gestalt PCs are "something special" from the beginning. They are far more powerful than typical 1st-level commoners even at the beginning of the campaign. Again, this difference only matters for a level or two, because standard 3rd-level chracters are also far more powerful than 1st-level commoners.
Kintara 08-30-05, 01:14 AM	Well the fact that it states that you can only have two classes max for a Gestalt I interpreted as meaning only two classes. Afterall, you have class/class, but if you gain a third class then it's class/class/class. At least how I interpreted the rules...which probably means the rules are open to interpretation. If I could steal a little snippet from the quote above: "Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best apsects of each, and applies them to his characteristics."
colm_l 08-30-05, 06:36 AM	http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm