Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ClockworkRevenge 04-25-08, 05:02 AM	If we assume there there is a spectrum, and that "Maddness" is on the far left, and "Sanity" is in the middle, whats on the far right? The reason i ask is because i need a foil/counter part to the "Maddness" (1/2 character level bonus to Int/Wis for the purposes of determining saves/bonus spells, subtract 1/2 character level from all willsaves and wisdom skill checks). Ideas?
sblaxman 04-25-08, 12:29 PM	in game, I don't think it's a spectrum. Just like there is not a spectrum from "the vase is ok" to "the vase is shattered", it's either normal, broken, or some stage of broken (chipped)... there isn't anything better than "normal". Or, the opposite of "maddness" would be "saneness" and it makes you normal
ClockworkRevenge 04-25-08, 01:41 PM	in game, I don't think it's a spectrum. Just like there is not a spectrum from "the vase is ok" to "the vase is shattered", it's either normal, broken, or some stage of broken (chipped)... there isn't anything better than "normal". Or, the opposite of "maddness" would be "saneness" and it makes you normal I disagree. Theyre are messed up vaces, decent vaces, and vaces so beautiful they move you to tears.
sblaxman 04-25-08, 02:41 PM	You could create a "state"... something along the lines of "enlightened" maybe, to be the opposite of "madness"
Roguewiz 04-25-08, 03:04 PM	Insanity really can't be broken down into levels of severity. You are either insane or you're not. Madness is nothing more than a different way to explain insanity. Even if there was an insanity "extreme", there really wouldn't be an opposite for it. Can you be extremely sane? What makes someone more sane than someone else? In DnD terms, there is no opposite. You're either suffering from Madness, or you're just plain normal. If you must have an opposite to it, take the advice of xblaxman and create the opposite. Good luck trying to explain what makes someone more than just "sane" =)
JulesCARV 04-25-08, 06:49 PM	Enlightenment. UPDATE: this is much later than Artector's post on the other thread, but I swear I came up with it before ever seeing Artector's post!
Patrick Draken-Korin 05-01-08, 02:18 AM	Enlightenment works, some kind of one-ness with reality deal. I'd expect it to be hard to attain... It could makle an interesting requirment for spells or magic items; you must have such a degree of enlightenment/madness to [inster spell/magic item/feat].
boozerker 05-02-08, 11:39 AM	Serenity ... .. .
sblaxman 05-02-08, 02:48 PM	...you can't take the sky from me....
ArochanoX 05-02-08, 05:13 PM	There are different stages of madness (some people that suffer from various diseased are categorised for the insanity's severity. There are people in asylums, but there are also people outside asylums that are mad but not that mad.). Serenity, Enlightement, Clarity (of mind), Uninsane (just a joke), clear and unperplexed cognition, Awareness, No-mind (Zen term), superconciousness or some else might fit to your ideal of mad - sane - ?.
Patrick Draken-Korin 05-03-08, 12:41 AM	I like serenity. It could be something you get through making a concentration check, and then while serene, anything that afflicts your sanity must break through this buffer before it can actually prove detrimental. Or it could replace the psionic focus deal. You could even have different levels of serenity; DC 15 for tier one, then increase the DC by 15 for every additional tier (or for every 15 you surpass the base DC).
ashmanonar 05-05-08, 03:08 PM	I disagree. Theyre are messed up vaces, decent vaces, and vaces so beautiful they move you to tears. Correct. I'd say that the range spans Mad/Insane ------------- Sane/Average -------------- Clear-mind/Full Mental Clarity (heavily biased to Wis scores and Will saves) For example; a Barb with a Wis of 8 has a much higher chance of going insane from some maddening sight (Well, if he's not completely inured to gore and guts by that point) than, say, a Monk with 18 Wis. A monk's mind is ordered and structured, and thus much less easily broken by some madness-inducing effect. Now, a Wizard's mind should/would be similarly ordered, but I've seen plenty of Chaotic wizards before who do not fit this pattern. YMMV.
Master_Vega 05-05-08, 11:01 PM	Sometimes it's the most orderly systems that shatter the worst. A barbarian breaking down could go insane in any number of ways. I'd imagine a monk or lawful wizard would have a high chance of becoming obsessive compulsive to a dire degree. Anyhow, here's a thought: There's a class in another RPG, the concept of which is that a character believes so firmly in his own interpretation of reality (no magic, no psionics; there is no supernatural) that it ceases to exist while it is around him. Perhaps that's the sort of traits you want to give your counterpart to insanity?
ashmanonar 05-06-08, 04:42 PM	Sometimes it's the most orderly systems that shatter the worst. A barbarian breaking down could go insane in any number of ways. I'd imagine a monk or lawful wizard would have a high chance of becoming obsessive compulsive to a dire degree. Anyhow, here's a thought: There's a class in another RPG, the concept of which is that a character believes so firmly in his own interpretation of reality (no magic, no psionics; there is no supernatural) that it ceases to exist while it is around him. Perhaps that's the sort of traits you want to give your counterpart to insanity? I was actually thinking about that. Making something hardened tends to make it brittle, especially in the right circumstances. I just couldn't think of a mechanic to drive that. edit: I just had a thought; in a game where SAN is used, maybe Barbs and Fighters (heavily martial classes) would have a higher SAN save bonus, or some sort of class ability that inures them to death (having dealt so much of it.)
Alyss 05-07-08, 08:26 PM	Psychologically speaking there is no opposite. Either you're sane or you aren't. If you want to create an opposite go ahead, but your moving away from reality quite sharply.
sblaxman 05-08-08, 12:46 AM	Yeah, I commented that right off the bat, but then figured "if he wants something, give it to him"
NoldorForce 05-14-08, 09:42 PM	Here's (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1023290) a link to the other thread you'd posted the question in; there are several good comments there on how declaring an opposite to insanity is a very thorny issue and how using sanity as a middle value may not work. (After all, sanity and insanity are generally defined as opposites.) In particular, I'd like to reiterate my post there. You didn't like it but I think you'd failed to appreciate the complexity of what insanity encompasses.As 1 ton ghost noted, sanity is not necessarily a linear concept. For instance, what sort of insanity are you comparing sanity with? There are multiple (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/campaigns/sanity.htm#mentalDisorders) sorts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mental_illness#Disorders); "insanity" represents a broad swath of possible afflictions. Thus "sanity" in turn represents a set of multiple societal norms, rather than a single one. So to make something to contrast your "Madness" attribute with, you'll need to properly define which mental illness/disorder that "madness" is. Sociopathy/psychopathy is a good starting point; schizophrenia is another possible place to start.
R4za 05-15-08, 07:38 AM	Sharp? Clear-minded? Serene? Enlightened? Rational? I have to side with the 'There is an opposite' camp. In real life psychiatry, 'normality' is often held as the standard of health, but the average human being is certainly not wholly void of delusion, irrationality or misperception. Eliminating the things that, if taken to further extremes, constitute insanity in their entirety should result in a specifically sane mind. That said, the "The vase is either broken or whole" argument has validity, too. The thing is more that the average person we consider sane is in fact fairly 'chipped'.
ToastedAmphibian 05-19-08, 04:42 PM	Main Entry: 1in- Variant(s): or il- or im- or ir- Function: prefix Etymology: Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin; akin to Old English un- : not : non-, un- —usually il- before l<illogical>, im- before b, m, or p<imbalance><immoral><impractical>, ir- before r<irreducible>, and in- before other sounds <inconclusive> In-sane means NOT sane. If your less than sane, your not sane, and are thus insane. If your MORE than sane, your not sane, and are thus insane. Any deviation from sanity, in any direction, makes one less sane. If you really need an opposite for insanity, that opposite would be equal insanity in the opposite direction. If you need the opposite of someone who thinks ailens are going to descend from space to eat the babies, then par him with someone who thinks natives are going to ascend from the core of the earth to hug the old people..... Think of it like using a pair of binculars, a telescope, microscope, perscribtion glasses, w/e. When what your trying to look at is clear, its focused. There is no direction you can turn the nob that would make it more focused. Wether you go left or right you will be less focused, not more focused.
Taolil 05-21-08, 03:34 AM	The answer, clearly, is SPAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARTA! :P