Which parts of Unearthed Arcana would you like CORE? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Which parts of Unearthed Arcana would you like CORE? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
skio
05-19-07, 03:30 PM Unearthed Arcana is a quite popular supplement, but all its content is marked as optional. In a hypothetical 4e (don't panic:P ) which parts of UA would you like to see going core?

I would personally go for the 'Reducing LA' rules and possibly the Defense Bonus and Armour as DR combat variants (although I know that combat is part of d20 and cannot be easily changed).

Waiting for your thoughts
FatMonkey13
05-19-07, 04:19 PM Gestalt (now LA does not really matter)
Flaws (And you thought a 1st level Wizard was bad in melee before taking noncombatant and frail)
Weapon Groups (You can use a long sword and a short sword?)
More Variant Classes (Its a cleric and its not wearing full plate? but made more as modular switch out options)
unundindur
05-19-07, 04:49 PM Weapon groups, fractional bonuses (rogue lv+wizard lv= 1,25 BaB), Generic classes and class variants comes to mind.

If I had the book the list would definantely evolve, as UA is by far the most useful book there is in the DnD series.
Greg K
05-19-07, 04:51 PM At work, so off the top of my head:

Environmental Race variants
Class variants: especially the followng:
- barbarian hunter
- cleric: cloistered
- fighter: thug
- monk: fighting styles
- ranger: urban
- rogue: martial, wilderness
- sorcerer: battle sorcerer

Variant class abilities
- Favored Environment
- Urban tracking
- Wizard Specialist variant abilities: I want this as standard for specialists. then again, I suggested something similar in the pre 3.0 questionaire

Weapon Groups

Combat
-class based defense: needs to be rewritten to work with armor
- armor as dr
- either vitality/wound points or injury system. this would require other system changes. Furthemore, the latter needs to be rewritten completely, because the author of this section did a horrible job in adapting it from its original source.

Magic
- Spontaneous Divine casting
- Spell point with vitalizing (for arcane)

incantations
calronmoonflower
05-19-07, 05:20 PM Flaws and Traits

Reducing level adjustments.

Fractional base attack bonuses and saves.
Zyrusticae
05-19-07, 06:10 PM Fractional BAB and saves, definitely.
Flaws & Traits - Great stuff.

LA reduction? How about jus' getting rid of LAs entirely? I'd be happy with racial classes instead. (In fact, these already exist: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=596634 )

Class based defense and armor as DR I've adopted, but with my own spin on things (see my thread in this very same forum).

Incantations are already used with the New Ultimate Classes (http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Classes). And they rock.
BurgMaster861
05-19-07, 07:30 PM All class variants and class feature variants should be allowed, as they add to the variety and flavor of the game.
EXPICITLY, the variant wizards. if magic and wizardry, in any way, could be made more diverse, it should be, and those that do not want the options need not take them.
I like the fractional bonuses, because, yes, it reduces the penalties for multiclassing, and characters should not take further mathematical penalties for being detailed and diverse.
SPELL POINTS needs to be cored. It takes the cookie-cutter logic that metagamers and power gamers live by, and replaces it with a more mallieable magic system, and wasn't magic supposed to be adaptable and fluid to begin with?
Weapon groups are a really good way to diversify the equipment available to Pcs, and those that don't want to deal with the complexities, just pick equipment and don't worry about your other proficiciencies.
I personally subscribe to the Armor as DR variant, but as it's really a belief that takes faith to survive in a game, it SHOULD NOT be cored. as a matter of fact, combat should almost always be house rule amended.
TRAITS are a great way to build a little character into the mechanics of the way your character operates. This should be a sub-chapter of character creation texts everywhere in D&D books, expanded and made more detailed in as many ways as possible.
Shawno
05-19-07, 08:09 PM I'm a fan of the gestalt model, though I realize it's not for everyone. What I like most about it is that provides so much more flexibility both individually and collectively. Most modules, and many DMs telling their own stories, seem to presume a cleric, or at least a healer. While some players love that role, most players I've interacted with would rather have virtually any other role, so it lets someone take that role while combining it with something that can make for an interesting package -- monk, rogue, druid, or even simply fighter or paladin. It's also a great system when there aren't enough players to properly fill out a party -- much tidier than running NPC party members or having each player play more than one character.

And actually there are good many other ideas there I like: flaws, the fractional attack bonuses and saves, class variations (so that, for example, monks and wizards from different schools or barbarians from different tribes aren't all the same), armor as DR, weapon groups, paragon classes, etc.

I'm not sure I'd make all of them core per se, but there are already core rules that are optional, depending on the level of detail you and your group seek. That's how I'd deal with most of this.
FatMonkey13
05-19-07, 10:59 PM fractional attack bonuses and saves This is a must to reduce min maxing and so that multi-classing makes more sense
strenoth
05-20-07, 04:48 AM Add me in on the fractional BAB/Saves. Saves make a LOT more sense, and BaB is smoothed out a bit too (Which never actually hurts a build, as a cleric1/rogue1/monk1/bard1 woudl actually have a BaB of +3, instead of +0 )

Maybe action points, haven;t tried them out enough

Definatly yes on magic Rating.
zzo38
05-20-07, 11:43 AM I like some of the stuff in this book, but I think none of it should be made standard.
Krusk
05-20-07, 03:13 PM I would like all the races, bloodlines, classes, and class variants made core. Aside from minor bloodlines.

I would also like gestalt to be mentioned in core as a legit option so long as everyone takes it.
Greg K
05-20-07, 07:02 PM add action points to my previous list.
Shawno
05-20-07, 09:09 PM add action points to my previous list.

Agreed.
Ardan The Avenger
05-20-07, 11:16 PM Put me down for Gestalt, Action Points and Class-Based Defense.
WhiteRaven810
05-21-07, 12:03 AM Flaws and traits.
RobbyPants
05-21-07, 12:11 AM Flaws and Traits

Reducing level adjustments.

Fractional base attack bonuses and saves.
Definitely three good ones.

SPELL POINTS needs to be cored. It takes the cookie-cutter logic that metagamers and power gamers live by, and replaces it with a more mallieable magic system, and wasn't magic supposed to be adaptable and fluid to begin with?
I love the idea of spell points, but I think UA's implimentation of it was a bit lacking. What it is is an easy plug-in. What it should be is a more comprehensive, balanced system (which needs to be written in from the ground up). Something a little closer to psionics (where other spells have augments written in).
thaX
05-21-07, 12:14 AM Spell Points. It needs to be CORE and should have been at least an optional rule in 3.0. I was using Mana Pools in 2nd ed and found them to be quite useful.

I would also like to see Comliness stat from the original UA be used in CORE. Why was this ever passed over in 3.0 I will never understand.
Jaxgaret
05-21-07, 01:05 AM Gestalt (now LA does not really matter)
Flaws (And you thought a 1st level Wizard was bad in melee before taking noncombatant and frail)
Weapon Groups (You can use a long sword and a short sword?)
More Variant Classes (Its a cleric and its not wearing full plate? but made more as modular switch out options)

Agreed. Plus fractional BAB/saves.

The only problem with fractionals is that it takes more math on the players' part; a lot of people frown on this.
Shawno
05-21-07, 02:27 AM Agreed. Plus fractional BAB/saves.

The only problem with fractionals is that it takes more math on the players' part; a lot of people frown on this.

Hey, if they don't care to do the math, they can always just round everything down, eh? Heck, it might help get everyone better at math! ;)
Jaxgaret
05-21-07, 02:35 AM Hey, if they don't care to do the math, they can always just round everything down, eh?

That's still more math ;)
polt
05-21-07, 10:01 AM Action points.

Weapon groups.

Spell points.

Toughness Save (although it need to be reworked a little, so it doesn't suck).
Dragonborn
05-21-07, 03:03 PM Weapon Groups

Fractional base attack bonus/saves

A good Spell Points system

Gestalt as a variant option

Variant Classes
Dungeonrenter
05-21-07, 03:45 PM Most of the class variants. However, I would also be good with generic classes combined with letting people have lots and lots of class abilities and feats.

Action Points. However, the whole concept needs to be better integrated into the game. I would suggest a "Times per session" method rather than a "times per level"

Anything that makes the combat more like a game and more fun. Class defense bonus makes sense. Armor as Damage reduction so that players feel like heavy armor does something. Also vitiality wounds can be cool, but that changes the damage the weapons need to do, the value of armor. It would be a major rework.

The magic system needs a complete overhaul. I prefer "recharge magic" from UA because spell points and mana pools are just the spell slots of D&D by another name. The magic system should be based on a "per encounter" method which recharge is much closer to.

I guess those are mine.
trapspringer
05-24-07, 01:09 PM I totally dig traits and flaws. It just seems like a natural part of D&D to me.

I use action points in my game, but they don't belong in core. Their kinda style-specific.

I like the variant classes, and would be comfortable with something similar in the core rules.
Thane26425
05-24-07, 11:08 PM I would say spell points and gestalt.

Spell points work really well. You can allow characters to ready a number of different spells that they can cast up to their point limit. Or, like in many other systems, you can just let them cast any spell that they know without preparing them ahead of time, up to the points limit. Doing that though means you should give the sorceror more spell points, or more simply, let them gain spell like a wizard, but say they come by them naturally rather than by study.

Gestalt is good because the classes as they are are good, but confining. I never had a problem with a wizard also being a decent swordsman too, but hated having to give up levels for it. It allows for more variety and they aren't that much stronger in a fight than other characters since they don't get more actions.
Steely_Dan
05-25-07, 05:59 AM -Saving Throws as Scores/Defences (Will +7 becomes Will 18).

It makes it more fun for the players to roll a magic check against each opponents Ref defence, for let's say a fireball, instead of the opponents all making Ref saves to avoid. Fireball with a DC +7 becomes a d20 +7 magic check against the opponents Ref Score/Defence.

-Another vote for fractional BAB and saves.

-And for variant races, classes, class abilities
Flynnwd
05-25-07, 06:38 AM Action points and weapon groups should be made core, in my personal experience. Some of the variant class options should also make their way into core.

I love Players Roll The Dice, but I don't think it should be made core.

Hope this helps,
Flynn
Steely_Dan
05-25-07, 06:42 AM I love Players Roll The Dice, but I don't think it should be made core.

As I said in the above post, I like it for the saves, ala Star Wars: Saga Edition, but I'm not so keen on the players rolling their defence against attacks and rolling their SR to resist.
Ecalsneerg
05-25-07, 07:07 AM Gestalt is OK, but only i you use Core only. otherwise it's insane.

Weapon groups are the one thing I would definitely love implemented. And the druid aspects of nature should replace wild Shape, it seems so much more balanced to me.
HuManBing
05-25-07, 01:49 PM Ones I currently use:

* Healing spells only convert permanent damage into temporary damage.

* Variant monk classes

Ones I wished I had the guts to use :) :

* Armor as DR

* Fractional BAB/save bonuses

* Class bonuses to AC.
captain_pelor
05-26-07, 06:55 PM Both the Totem Barbarian and Alignment variant Paladins have been added as if core to any game I run I love both of them and I dont see why they are not core really.
captain_pelor
05-26-07, 06:56 PM Both the Totem Barbarian and Alignment variant Paladins have been added as if core to any game I run I love both of them and I dont see why they are not core really.

Also when I remember too :P I use armor as DR because it just makes more sense to me that way.
Joseph_Silver
05-26-07, 07:40 PM I want the battle sorcerer and the variant paladins added to the core rules. Perhaps reputation, too?
True Cavalier
05-26-07, 08:25 PM Variant Class Abilities
and
Weapon Group Feats ;)
Tectorman
05-27-07, 01:39 AM Put me down for LA Buyoff, Variant classes (Cleric, Monk, Rogue, Ranger, Wizard, Sorcerer, and more variants for the new classes, too [swashy, ninja, etc.]), Incantations (with more than just three examples), and finally, fractional attacks and saves.

If fractions are a problem for you, then in all seriousness, you should take the time to learn how they work (I mean, jeez, I learned fractions in grade school).
kiesloth
09-19-07, 09:44 AM definately some things should be made core
the one's i am most serious about are
1)weapon groups
2)flaws
Artifact
09-19-07, 11:13 AM I've read somewhere that Action Points are "in" as far as 4E is concerned, although they may work differently.

Outside of Action Points, I'd like to see some options offered in the core rules concerning Skill Systems. The players I often DM have never been too concerned about skill choices, ranks, etc. As one fella put it: "I'm a rogue, I'm supposed to be sneaky, why should I have to prove it by tracking skill points?"

These guys are typically into the "smash and bash" style of play. Therefore, we use the "Level-Based Skills" rules presented on page 81 in our games.
Thakowsaizmu
09-19-07, 03:07 PM We have made the following Core for our group:
Weapon Groups
Flaws
Traits
Varient classes / class features
Spell Points
Varient Races

Aside from that, some games we use Defense / armour as DR, and I think that should be core (though we modify it. Fighters and who ever else get knocked down a rank so that they don't get +6 at first level).
nonsi
09-19-07, 03:11 PM Fixed HP progression - making HD differences count and not rely on dice rolls.
Flaws & traits
fractional bonuses
Weapon Groups (still needs some work, but the concept is good)
More Variant Classes
Generic classes (but with more than just 3 options and better defined)
TwiddleStootch
09-19-07, 03:49 PM Spell Points.

Use 'em, Live by 'em, Love 'em!
Asurya
09-21-07, 07:19 AM @TwiddleStootch: you forgot the main part:

Rewrite all existing spells to appropriate integration, Use 'em, Live by 'em, Love 'em!

or better yet:
Spell PointsPsionic.
Use 'em, Live by 'em, Love 'em!

:P
BigGus
09-28-07, 08:54 AM Definitely:

Flaws and traits

Fractional BAB and saves

Armour as DR

Paladins of Freedom, Slaughter, Tyranny

Perhaps:

Magic rating

Monk styles

Divine Bard
Kedami
09-28-07, 09:58 AM Someone mentioned early in the thread about getting rid of LAs (instead of using the reducing rules) and using racial classes. I agree with that.

I quite like all the class variants, which should be optional to each player. These make things much more varied and could show cultural differences across your setting.

Spell Points. My favourite system for using magic. I started playing CRPGs and had always wanted to get into D&D (my enthusiasm didn't after I did), but I missed the MP system from Final Fantasy. I adopted this as soon as I got the UA.

Weapon groups are quite good, I feel. So are the fractional bonuses, as they make multiclassing slightly better because you don't get stuck with a +2 base attack for ages (or similar effects).

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but it seems that no one has really mentioned the combat facing rules. I use these rules and they work (I also like the hex grid, but have yet to try it out).

Although I like the system, perhaps the fixed XP awards from near the back of the book should not become core. Since, if you play an evil campaign, towns are filled with little CR1/2 commoners worth 150XP in this system...
Avenger314
10-03-07, 01:16 PM Variant classes (especially for specialist wizards. I never use a familiar anyway).
Bloodlines
Armor as DR could work, but not necessarily core.
And spell points may be fun.
pigknight
10-04-07, 06:41 PM Gesalt: It adds quite a bit to roleplaying.
Rustmonster
10-05-07, 05:23 PM I understand how fractional BAB works, but how do fractional saves work?
Dex
10-06-07, 11:42 PM Fractional BAB & saves, class defense bonuses gestalt and...

...No Spell Resistance for Energy Damage!
curtis_ownby
10-08-07, 04:40 PM Bloodlines
Race Paragon Classes
Gestalt or at lest some thing like it.
Traits
Flaws
Weapon Groups
Craft Points
Class Defense
Armor as Damage Reduction
Spell Points
Runningyellowstream
10-10-07, 08:21 PM Variant Classes especially the variant paladins
(I have more people play PoS rather than PoJ)
Class Defense, Action Points, bloodlines, flaws,
spell-touched feats (I'm pretty sure that's where they are from),
No SR on Energy spells
Fractional BAB and saves i use them all the time
If Generic classes where explained better and devoted more than three pages
i may be able to work something up
I can't think of any more other than this one which is the whole reason why i posted
DRUID DOMAINS
Operation_Shoestring
10-15-07, 04:30 AM environmental racial variants.

Aquatic Elves, Jungle Halflings, Desert Gnomes, etc.
Finfreeze
10-16-07, 03:16 PM Yes:
Traits/Flaws
Variant Classes (Particularly Battle Sorcerer, Thug, and Martial and Wilderness Rogue...Cloistered Cleric is a better fit vs. the standard cleric)
Whirling Frenzy and Favored Environment
Weapon Group Feats
Fractional BAB and Saves

Need some tweaking:
Armor as Damage Reduction (I prefer armor to purely provide DR, and the numbers ought to scale better with level)
Generic Classes (Fix the Expert, really, and integrate those class feature feats into the main game as regular feats)
Class-based defense (it's too tied to armor; make it more like d20 Modern)
Racial Variants (a bit hit-or-miss)
Magic Rating (Needs to be a little more lenient overall, since caster level is so important)
Reducing Level Adjustments (HD and LAs above 2 can make losing more than 1 or 2 LA impossible, while LA +1 creatures get off way too easily)
Andorxor
10-16-07, 05:16 PM Incantations
Contacts
Paragon Classes
BioEngine
10-19-07, 06:30 PM 1. Traits
2. Environmental racial variants
3. Monk discipline alternatives
Tackle74
10-21-07, 01:28 PM Spell Points, closest I have seen to by far I think the best Magic System which is Rolemaster's List system. I wish I had the time to sit down and make D&D spells into lists like Rolemaster did. I have noticed so many Magic Users of all sorts (Wizards, Clerics, Sorcerors etc...) always end up taking the same or similar daily spells and that gets stale. What our group has done is use the Spell Point System for all classes except Clerics. Clerics we allow to cast spontaneously. It makes no since you cannot pray for your spell as you need it. All other users pick their spells of the day, but can cast any spell out of their Spellbook, which of coures takes time and effort to get out and use. Makes certain spells used much more frequently.
Hellsbells
10-21-07, 06:44 PM Gestalt as an explained, legite option but not required.

Traits and Flaws, Bloodlines and Paragons. Again optional but easily accessed and with the core "legitimency".

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
skio 05-19-07, 03:30 PM	Unearthed Arcana is a quite popular supplement, but all its content is marked as optional. In a hypothetical 4e (don't panic:P ) which parts of UA would you like to see going core? I would personally go for the 'Reducing LA' rules and possibly the Defense Bonus and Armour as DR combat variants (although I know that combat is part of d20 and cannot be easily changed). Waiting for your thoughts
FatMonkey13 05-19-07, 04:19 PM	Gestalt (now LA does not really matter) Flaws (And you thought a 1st level Wizard was bad in melee before taking noncombatant and frail) Weapon Groups (You can use a long sword and a short sword?) More Variant Classes (Its a cleric and its not wearing full plate? but made more as modular switch out options)
unundindur 05-19-07, 04:49 PM	Weapon groups, fractional bonuses (rogue lv+wizard lv= 1,25 BaB), Generic classes and class variants comes to mind. If I had the book the list would definantely evolve, as UA is by far the most useful book there is in the DnD series.
Greg K 05-19-07, 04:51 PM	At work, so off the top of my head: Environmental Race variants Class variants: especially the followng: - barbarian hunter - cleric: cloistered - fighter: thug - monk: fighting styles - ranger: urban - rogue: martial, wilderness - sorcerer: battle sorcerer Variant class abilities - Favored Environment - Urban tracking - Wizard Specialist variant abilities: I want this as standard for specialists. then again, I suggested something similar in the pre 3.0 questionaire Weapon Groups Combat -class based defense: needs to be rewritten to work with armor - armor as dr - either vitality/wound points or injury system. this would require other system changes. Furthemore, the latter needs to be rewritten completely, because the author of this section did a horrible job in adapting it from its original source. Magic - Spontaneous Divine casting - Spell point with vitalizing (for arcane) incantations
calronmoonflower 05-19-07, 05:20 PM	Flaws and Traits Reducing level adjustments. Fractional base attack bonuses and saves.
Zyrusticae 05-19-07, 06:10 PM	Fractional BAB and saves, definitely. Flaws & Traits - Great stuff. LA reduction? How about jus' getting rid of LAs entirely? I'd be happy with racial classes instead. (In fact, these already exist: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=596634 ) Class based defense and armor as DR I've adopted, but with my own spin on things (see my thread in this very same forum). Incantations are already used with the New Ultimate Classes (http://www.liquidmateria.info/wiki/Ultimate_Classes). And they rock.
BurgMaster861 05-19-07, 07:30 PM	All class variants and class feature variants should be allowed, as they add to the variety and flavor of the game. EXPICITLY, the variant wizards. if magic and wizardry, in any way, could be made more diverse, it should be, and those that do not want the options need not take them. I like the fractional bonuses, because, yes, it reduces the penalties for multiclassing, and characters should not take further mathematical penalties for being detailed and diverse. SPELL POINTS needs to be cored. It takes the cookie-cutter logic that metagamers and power gamers live by, and replaces it with a more mallieable magic system, and wasn't magic supposed to be adaptable and fluid to begin with? Weapon groups are a really good way to diversify the equipment available to Pcs, and those that don't want to deal with the complexities, just pick equipment and don't worry about your other proficiciencies. I personally subscribe to the Armor as DR variant, but as it's really a belief that takes faith to survive in a game, it SHOULD NOT be cored. as a matter of fact, combat should almost always be house rule amended. TRAITS are a great way to build a little character into the mechanics of the way your character operates. This should be a sub-chapter of character creation texts everywhere in D&D books, expanded and made more detailed in as many ways as possible.
Shawno 05-19-07, 08:09 PM	I'm a fan of the gestalt model, though I realize it's not for everyone. What I like most about it is that provides so much more flexibility both individually and collectively. Most modules, and many DMs telling their own stories, seem to presume a cleric, or at least a healer. While some players love that role, most players I've interacted with would rather have virtually any other role, so it lets someone take that role while combining it with something that can make for an interesting package -- monk, rogue, druid, or even simply fighter or paladin. It's also a great system when there aren't enough players to properly fill out a party -- much tidier than running NPC party members or having each player play more than one character. And actually there are good many other ideas there I like: flaws, the fractional attack bonuses and saves, class variations (so that, for example, monks and wizards from different schools or barbarians from different tribes aren't all the same), armor as DR, weapon groups, paragon classes, etc. I'm not sure I'd make all of them core per se, but there are already core rules that are optional, depending on the level of detail you and your group seek. That's how I'd deal with most of this.
FatMonkey13 05-19-07, 10:59 PM	fractional attack bonuses and saves This is a must to reduce min maxing and so that multi-classing makes more sense
strenoth 05-20-07, 04:48 AM	Add me in on the fractional BAB/Saves. Saves make a LOT more sense, and BaB is smoothed out a bit too (Which never actually hurts a build, as a cleric1/rogue1/monk1/bard1 woudl actually have a BaB of +3, instead of +0 ) Maybe action points, haven;t tried them out enough Definatly yes on magic Rating.
zzo38 05-20-07, 11:43 AM	I like some of the stuff in this book, but I think none of it should be made standard.
Krusk 05-20-07, 03:13 PM	I would like all the races, bloodlines, classes, and class variants made core. Aside from minor bloodlines. I would also like gestalt to be mentioned in core as a legit option so long as everyone takes it.
Greg K 05-20-07, 07:02 PM	add action points to my previous list.
Shawno 05-20-07, 09:09 PM	add action points to my previous list. Agreed.
Ardan The Avenger 05-20-07, 11:16 PM	Put me down for Gestalt, Action Points and Class-Based Defense.
WhiteRaven810 05-21-07, 12:03 AM	Flaws and traits.
RobbyPants 05-21-07, 12:11 AM	Flaws and Traits Reducing level adjustments. Fractional base attack bonuses and saves. Definitely three good ones. SPELL POINTS needs to be cored. It takes the cookie-cutter logic that metagamers and power gamers live by, and replaces it with a more mallieable magic system, and wasn't magic supposed to be adaptable and fluid to begin with? I love the idea of spell points, but I think UA's implimentation of it was a bit lacking. What it is is an easy plug-in. What it should be is a more comprehensive, balanced system (which needs to be written in from the ground up). Something a little closer to psionics (where other spells have augments written in).
thaX 05-21-07, 12:14 AM	Spell Points. It needs to be CORE and should have been at least an optional rule in 3.0. I was using Mana Pools in 2nd ed and found them to be quite useful. I would also like to see Comliness stat from the original UA be used in CORE. Why was this ever passed over in 3.0 I will never understand.
Jaxgaret 05-21-07, 01:05 AM	Gestalt (now LA does not really matter) Flaws (And you thought a 1st level Wizard was bad in melee before taking noncombatant and frail) Weapon Groups (You can use a long sword and a short sword?) More Variant Classes (Its a cleric and its not wearing full plate? but made more as modular switch out options) Agreed. Plus fractional BAB/saves. The only problem with fractionals is that it takes more math on the players' part; a lot of people frown on this.
Shawno 05-21-07, 02:27 AM	Agreed. Plus fractional BAB/saves. The only problem with fractionals is that it takes more math on the players' part; a lot of people frown on this. Hey, if they don't care to do the math, they can always just round everything down, eh? Heck, it might help get everyone better at math! ;)
Jaxgaret 05-21-07, 02:35 AM	Hey, if they don't care to do the math, they can always just round everything down, eh? That's still more math ;)
polt 05-21-07, 10:01 AM	Action points. Weapon groups. Spell points. Toughness Save (although it need to be reworked a little, so it doesn't suck).
Dragonborn 05-21-07, 03:03 PM	Weapon Groups Fractional base attack bonus/saves A good Spell Points system Gestalt as a variant option Variant Classes
Dungeonrenter 05-21-07, 03:45 PM	Most of the class variants. However, I would also be good with generic classes combined with letting people have lots and lots of class abilities and feats. Action Points. However, the whole concept needs to be better integrated into the game. I would suggest a "Times per session" method rather than a "times per level" Anything that makes the combat more like a game and more fun. Class defense bonus makes sense. Armor as Damage reduction so that players feel like heavy armor does something. Also vitiality wounds can be cool, but that changes the damage the weapons need to do, the value of armor. It would be a major rework. The magic system needs a complete overhaul. I prefer "recharge magic" from UA because spell points and mana pools are just the spell slots of D&D by another name. The magic system should be based on a "per encounter" method which recharge is much closer to. I guess those are mine.
trapspringer 05-24-07, 01:09 PM	I totally dig traits and flaws. It just seems like a natural part of D&D to me. I use action points in my game, but they don't belong in core. Their kinda style-specific. I like the variant classes, and would be comfortable with something similar in the core rules.
Thane26425 05-24-07, 11:08 PM	I would say spell points and gestalt. Spell points work really well. You can allow characters to ready a number of different spells that they can cast up to their point limit. Or, like in many other systems, you can just let them cast any spell that they know without preparing them ahead of time, up to the points limit. Doing that though means you should give the sorceror more spell points, or more simply, let them gain spell like a wizard, but say they come by them naturally rather than by study. Gestalt is good because the classes as they are are good, but confining. I never had a problem with a wizard also being a decent swordsman too, but hated having to give up levels for it. It allows for more variety and they aren't that much stronger in a fight than other characters since they don't get more actions.
Steely_Dan 05-25-07, 05:59 AM	-Saving Throws as Scores/Defences (Will +7 becomes Will 18). It makes it more fun for the players to roll a magic check against each opponents Ref defence, for let's say a fireball, instead of the opponents all making Ref saves to avoid. Fireball with a DC +7 becomes a d20 +7 magic check against the opponents Ref Score/Defence. -Another vote for fractional BAB and saves. -And for variant races, classes, class abilities
Flynnwd 05-25-07, 06:38 AM	Action points and weapon groups should be made core, in my personal experience. Some of the variant class options should also make their way into core. I love Players Roll The Dice, but I don't think it should be made core. Hope this helps, Flynn
Steely_Dan 05-25-07, 06:42 AM	I love Players Roll The Dice, but I don't think it should be made core. As I said in the above post, I like it for the saves, ala Star Wars: Saga Edition, but I'm not so keen on the players rolling their defence against attacks and rolling their SR to resist.
Ecalsneerg 05-25-07, 07:07 AM	Gestalt is OK, but only i you use Core only. otherwise it's insane. Weapon groups are the one thing I would definitely love implemented. And the druid aspects of nature should replace wild Shape, it seems so much more balanced to me.
HuManBing 05-25-07, 01:49 PM	Ones I currently use: * Healing spells only convert permanent damage into temporary damage. * Variant monk classes Ones I wished I had the guts to use :) : * Armor as DR * Fractional BAB/save bonuses * Class bonuses to AC.
captain_pelor 05-26-07, 06:55 PM	Both the Totem Barbarian and Alignment variant Paladins have been added as if core to any game I run I love both of them and I dont see why they are not core really.
captain_pelor 05-26-07, 06:56 PM	Both the Totem Barbarian and Alignment variant Paladins have been added as if core to any game I run I love both of them and I dont see why they are not core really. Also when I remember too :P I use armor as DR because it just makes more sense to me that way.
Joseph_Silver 05-26-07, 07:40 PM	I want the battle sorcerer and the variant paladins added to the core rules. Perhaps reputation, too?
True Cavalier 05-26-07, 08:25 PM	Variant Class Abilities and Weapon Group Feats ;)
Tectorman 05-27-07, 01:39 AM	Put me down for LA Buyoff, Variant classes (Cleric, Monk, Rogue, Ranger, Wizard, Sorcerer, and more variants for the new classes, too [swashy, ninja, etc.]), Incantations (with more than just three examples), and finally, fractional attacks and saves. If fractions are a problem for you, then in all seriousness, you should take the time to learn how they work (I mean, jeez, I learned fractions in grade school).
kiesloth 09-19-07, 09:44 AM	definately some things should be made core the one's i am most serious about are 1)weapon groups 2)flaws
Artifact 09-19-07, 11:13 AM	I've read somewhere that Action Points are "in" as far as 4E is concerned, although they may work differently. Outside of Action Points, I'd like to see some options offered in the core rules concerning Skill Systems. The players I often DM have never been too concerned about skill choices, ranks, etc. As one fella put it: "I'm a rogue, I'm supposed to be sneaky, why should I have to prove it by tracking skill points?" These guys are typically into the "smash and bash" style of play. Therefore, we use the "Level-Based Skills" rules presented on page 81 in our games.
Thakowsaizmu 09-19-07, 03:07 PM	We have made the following Core for our group: Weapon Groups Flaws Traits Varient classes / class features Spell Points Varient Races Aside from that, some games we use Defense / armour as DR, and I think that should be core (though we modify it. Fighters and who ever else get knocked down a rank so that they don't get +6 at first level).
nonsi 09-19-07, 03:11 PM	Fixed HP progression - making HD differences count and not rely on dice rolls. Flaws & traits fractional bonuses Weapon Groups (still needs some work, but the concept is good) More Variant Classes Generic classes (but with more than just 3 options and better defined)
TwiddleStootch 09-19-07, 03:49 PM	Spell Points. Use 'em, Live by 'em, Love 'em!
Asurya 09-21-07, 07:19 AM	@TwiddleStootch: you forgot the main part: Rewrite all existing spells to appropriate integration, Use 'em, Live by 'em, Love 'em! or better yet: Spell PointsPsionic. Use 'em, Live by 'em, Love 'em! :P
BigGus 09-28-07, 08:54 AM	Definitely: Flaws and traits Fractional BAB and saves Armour as DR Paladins of Freedom, Slaughter, Tyranny Perhaps: Magic rating Monk styles Divine Bard
Kedami 09-28-07, 09:58 AM	Someone mentioned early in the thread about getting rid of LAs (instead of using the reducing rules) and using racial classes. I agree with that. I quite like all the class variants, which should be optional to each player. These make things much more varied and could show cultural differences across your setting. Spell Points. My favourite system for using magic. I started playing CRPGs and had always wanted to get into D&D (my enthusiasm didn't after I did), but I missed the MP system from Final Fantasy. I adopted this as soon as I got the UA. Weapon groups are quite good, I feel. So are the fractional bonuses, as they make multiclassing slightly better because you don't get stuck with a +2 base attack for ages (or similar effects). I haven't read the entire thread yet, but it seems that no one has really mentioned the combat facing rules. I use these rules and they work (I also like the hex grid, but have yet to try it out). Although I like the system, perhaps the fixed XP awards from near the back of the book should not become core. Since, if you play an evil campaign, towns are filled with little CR1/2 commoners worth 150XP in this system...
Avenger314 10-03-07, 01:16 PM	Variant classes (especially for specialist wizards. I never use a familiar anyway). Bloodlines Armor as DR could work, but not necessarily core. And spell points may be fun.
pigknight 10-04-07, 06:41 PM	Gesalt: It adds quite a bit to roleplaying.
Rustmonster 10-05-07, 05:23 PM	I understand how fractional BAB works, but how do fractional saves work?
Dex 10-06-07, 11:42 PM	Fractional BAB & saves, class defense bonuses gestalt and... ...No Spell Resistance for Energy Damage!
curtis_ownby 10-08-07, 04:40 PM	Bloodlines Race Paragon Classes Gestalt or at lest some thing like it. Traits Flaws Weapon Groups Craft Points Class Defense Armor as Damage Reduction Spell Points
Runningyellowstream 10-10-07, 08:21 PM	Variant Classes especially the variant paladins (I have more people play PoS rather than PoJ) Class Defense, Action Points, bloodlines, flaws, spell-touched feats (I'm pretty sure that's where they are from), No SR on Energy spells Fractional BAB and saves i use them all the time If Generic classes where explained better and devoted more than three pages i may be able to work something up I can't think of any more other than this one which is the whole reason why i posted DRUID DOMAINS
Operation_Shoestring 10-15-07, 04:30 AM	environmental racial variants. Aquatic Elves, Jungle Halflings, Desert Gnomes, etc.
Finfreeze 10-16-07, 03:16 PM	Yes: Traits/Flaws Variant Classes (Particularly Battle Sorcerer, Thug, and Martial and Wilderness Rogue...Cloistered Cleric is a better fit vs. the standard cleric) Whirling Frenzy and Favored Environment Weapon Group Feats Fractional BAB and Saves Need some tweaking: Armor as Damage Reduction (I prefer armor to purely provide DR, and the numbers ought to scale better with level) Generic Classes (Fix the Expert, really, and integrate those class feature feats into the main game as regular feats) Class-based defense (it's too tied to armor; make it more like d20 Modern) Racial Variants (a bit hit-or-miss) Magic Rating (Needs to be a little more lenient overall, since caster level is so important) Reducing Level Adjustments (HD and LAs above 2 can make losing more than 1 or 2 LA impossible, while LA +1 creatures get off way too easily)
Andorxor 10-16-07, 05:16 PM	Incantations Contacts Paragon Classes
BioEngine 10-19-07, 06:30 PM	1. Traits 2. Environmental racial variants 3. Monk discipline alternatives
Tackle74 10-21-07, 01:28 PM	Spell Points, closest I have seen to by far I think the best Magic System which is Rolemaster's List system. I wish I had the time to sit down and make D&D spells into lists like Rolemaster did. I have noticed so many Magic Users of all sorts (Wizards, Clerics, Sorcerors etc...) always end up taking the same or similar daily spells and that gets stale. What our group has done is use the Spell Point System for all classes except Clerics. Clerics we allow to cast spontaneously. It makes no since you cannot pray for your spell as you need it. All other users pick their spells of the day, but can cast any spell out of their Spellbook, which of coures takes time and effort to get out and use. Makes certain spells used much more frequently.
Hellsbells 10-21-07, 06:44 PM	Gestalt as an explained, legite option but not required. Traits and Flaws, Bloodlines and Paragons. Again optional but easily accessed and with the core "legitimency".