Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Illithid13 01-18-06, 12:05 PM	Is it just me or is this substitution a little too unballancing? I play a normal barbarian level 3 and I fought against a barb 2/ranger 1 who whopped my butt. Because he had 2 attacks with his sword and a shield bash attack (house feat). What is worse, this frenzy removes any penalty that rage ever had (the -2 to AC) and actually increases it. Yea, they loose the 2 hp/level while raging and have a -2 to hit on all swings, but that is minimal if you arn't being hit as often and are at full BAB. I mean, you are still swinging just as accuratly as you were with out raging. I'm kind of regretting going the 2h weapon barb with normal rage. Am I missing something that helps ballance this out?
Divine Wrath 01-19-06, 03:32 AM	I haven't read the whirlwind frenzy for a while, but I'll attempt to help you using what you provided. Let’s take a look here: Normal Barbarian 3rd level: -2h Weapon (+50% str bonus to damage) -Rage: +4 to str (+2 to atk, +3 dam), +4 con (+2 hp/level, can die when rage is over), +2 morale to will saves, -2 to AC. Special Barbarian 2nd level/Ranger 1st level: -1-h weapon (normal damage) -Shield (with house feat allowing attack, as described) -Would probably require the two-weapon fighting feat to fight effectively. -might benefit from favorite enemy class feature. Whirlwind Frenzy: Increase to AC (increase not provided), provide extra attack with primary weapon at max atk (I think), -2 to all attacks, continue to gain +4 str (I'm assuming on this, it would negate the -2 to atk) I'm guessing the shield bash feat is similar to the improved shield bash in the DnD 3.5 srd; so the ranger might retain bonuses to AC from the shield. The shield might deal 1d3 or 1d4 points of bludgeoning damage for medium sized creature. What you can do to improve: -Power attack: You are using a two-handed weapon, because of that, when using power attack, you will deal twice the damage you would with a single handed weapon. Being a 3rd level barbarian, you should be able to sacrifice up to 3 points of atk and add 6 points of extra damage to you attack. With rage, you would only suffer -1 to attack and benefit from a +9 to damage. With a charge, your attack bonus increases to +1, but you suffer another -2 to AC. -You gain a constitution increase with your rage, the frenzy does not. Thus you rage should last an extra 2 rounds beyond the frenzy, gaining full benefits of rage in the process. Try to avoid directly engaging him until his rage fades. Since his attack should be a full round action, retreating 10 ft should prevent him from attacking you with more than one weapon if he decides to follow. -Grapple him; he has more attacks than you. When grappled, you are limited to a single attack, and may you only use light weapons or natural and unarmed attacks. You may even be able to pin him, rendering him helpless. Unfortunately, Two-handed fighting is somewhat limited in comparison to two-weapon fighting, especially with some of the feats from Complete Warrior or Complete Adventure. Some feats however do favor a single strong weapon over many such as whirlwind attack, cleave and combat reflexes. I hope this helps.
Dhavaer 01-19-06, 03:37 AM	One balancing factor would be that a frenzying barbarian doesn't gain Con, and thus the frenzy will last for 2 rounds less than the rage.
FriendlyBiscuit 01-19-06, 05:11 AM	Great analysis, cap'n Wrath. To the OP, I second every suggestion made by Divine Wrath. FYI for anyone interested, the Whirling Frenzy is detailed here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhir lingFrenzy