Wildshape Ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Wildshape Ranger [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
larry_the_titan
04-20-08, 10:09 PM Is this worth it? Its seems neat but lacking in follow through since most Medium and Small creatures are weaker then your Standard Melee Fighter. Is there a animal I don't know about? Or have I misread the class feature?
Thief_of_Hope
04-20-08, 11:04 PM I personally love it for the speed boost, especially if I won't be going full ranger.

In the way of animals, even if you don't become a combat brute like a druid who turns into a tiger, you do gain access to animals that fly, burrow, swim, climb, etc.

The small and medium size animals I can think of right now, roughly in descending order of CR, are:

Legendary Wolf (MM2)
Legendary Ape (MM2)
Legendary Eagle (MM2)
Dire Toad (MM2)
Dinosaur, Protoceratops (Sandstorm)
Desmodu Hunting Bat (MM2)
Wolverine (MM)
Constrictor Snake (MM)
Sailsnake (MM4)
Monitor Lizard (MM)
Leopard (MM)
Dire Weasel (MM)
Dire Hawk (MM2)
Dire Badger (MM)
Dinosaur, Velociraptor (Eberron)
Dinosaur, Fleshraker (MM3)
Crocodile (MM)
Cheetah (MM)
Boar (MM)
Black Bear (MM)
Wolf (MM)
Snapping Turtle (Stormwrack)
Squid (MM)
Vipers of Small or Medium size (MM)
Shark (MM)
Serval (Sandstorm)
Octopus (MM)
Manta Ray (MM)
Hyena (MM)
Dog (MM)
Dinosaur, Swindlespitter (MM3)
Brixashulty (Races of the Wild)
Porpoise (MM)
Pony (MM)
Eel (Stormwrack)
Eagle (MM)
Dinosaur, Leaellynasaura (Eberron)
Carcass Eater (Libris Mortis)
Barracuda (Stormwrack)
Badger (MM)
Baboon (MM)
Vulture (Sandstorm)
Stingray (Stormwrack)
Seal (Frostburn)
Sea Otter (Frostburn)
Dire Rat (MM)
Caribou (Frostburn)
Arctic Fox (Frostburn)
Albatross (Stormwrack)

From that list, it looks like going for DM approval on Legendary animals is your best bet for combat. Many of the others make you a very good scout (eagle for flight and uber spot checks, cheetah or wolf for getting back to the group quickly, almost any animal for blending in to the surroundings/not attracting attention, etc.). It breaks down roughly into:

*forms with heightened senses (wolf - scent, eagle - good spot),
*forms with alternate/superior modes of travel (cheetah - fast, fish - swim, eagle - fly, ape - climb), and
*"Who, me?" forms (the orcs are keeping watch for adventurers sneaking into camp, not bats flying overhead).

Also good to know would be whether or not the fast movement you gain applies when you are wild shaped. I personally don't know.

Hope this helps!
trapspringer
04-20-08, 11:05 PM Erm... well, here's the breakdown:

Animal forms grant you a variety of abilities that can be sculpted to fit a variety of encounter situations. Coupled with useful feats like improved grapple and improved trip, you can nickle-and-dime an opponent to death with a long chain of attacks that read something like "Pounce for full attack (two claws and a bite), grapple (damage as per unarmed strike), rake (another claw)." That's five separate attacks which are pretty weak on their own, but when you factor in your strength modifer (a total of damage + str x 4) you're doin' ok by most standards.

Further, you've gotta' keep in mind the utility provided by all those animal forms. Suddenly you can circumvent challenges with your flight, climb, and swim speed. The extraordinary abilites of the animals are also worth looking at (like a cheetah's uber-run). You can see in all forms of light. No one can take away your weapons, and you can opt for a form with natural armor. You can heal yourself mid combat.

Also, this opens up feats and prestige classes while you retain full BAB and good HD.

It's not as good a druid, but then nothing is.
tdsaw111
04-21-08, 06:31 AM You do not, as far as I know gain the special qualities of any form. You gain special attacks such as pounce or rake but not the cheetah's burst of speed, the sharks keen scent, etc. Still useful but the distinction between Special Attack and Special Quality takes away a lot of the flavor. It seems silly that you gain the trip attack of a wolf but not its enhanced senses, but it was a step taken most likely to give druids at least a stumbling block on their road to ownage.

As far as I know the only way to get special qualities is to take MoMF to level 7, which grants you the ability to use any EX special qualities of any form you can take.
larry_the_titan
04-21-08, 02:46 PM Thx for your posts. Theif of Hope, your list of creatures will probably come in handy.

@tdsaw111, I am not a fan of the Wildshape Eratta. Primarily the rulings about vision types and Special Qualities. Bonus hp for Con mod wasn't a bad nerf but it kind of turns creatures into simple checks about what the creature Str, Dex and Natural Armor are for battle forms and with a lot of the special Qualities gone a lot of the utility forms become useless.

I think I will add Tiny forms at 12th and large forms at 16th and huge forms at 20th for the time being. I think while slower progression might not be as good if they had went straight Druid it will allow Rangers fewer limits compared to handing over three feats. Though there might be other things to consider. The only reason I don't want to just leave it as written is I hate for a class feature to become weak if you Don't Prestige out before reaching a high level or Enter into epic were it becomes completely useless unless you focused on it and Small and Medium animals only would be completely useless in epic.
Tytalus
04-28-08, 08:15 AM The wildshape ranger option is decent if used to qualify for Dragon Wildshape [Draconomicon]. Not as strong a the druid version by any means, though.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
larry_the_titan 04-20-08, 10:09 PM	Is this worth it? Its seems neat but lacking in follow through since most Medium and Small creatures are weaker then your Standard Melee Fighter. Is there a animal I don't know about? Or have I misread the class feature?
Thief_of_Hope 04-20-08, 11:04 PM	I personally love it for the speed boost, especially if I won't be going full ranger. In the way of animals, even if you don't become a combat brute like a druid who turns into a tiger, you do gain access to animals that fly, burrow, swim, climb, etc. The small and medium size animals I can think of right now, roughly in descending order of CR, are: Legendary Wolf (MM2) Legendary Ape (MM2) Legendary Eagle (MM2) Dire Toad (MM2) Dinosaur, Protoceratops (Sandstorm) Desmodu Hunting Bat (MM2) Wolverine (MM) Constrictor Snake (MM) Sailsnake (MM4) Monitor Lizard (MM) Leopard (MM) Dire Weasel (MM) Dire Hawk (MM2) Dire Badger (MM) Dinosaur, Velociraptor (Eberron) Dinosaur, Fleshraker (MM3) Crocodile (MM) Cheetah (MM) Boar (MM) Black Bear (MM) Wolf (MM) Snapping Turtle (Stormwrack) Squid (MM) Vipers of Small or Medium size (MM) Shark (MM) Serval (Sandstorm) Octopus (MM) Manta Ray (MM) Hyena (MM) Dog (MM) Dinosaur, Swindlespitter (MM3) Brixashulty (Races of the Wild) Porpoise (MM) Pony (MM) Eel (Stormwrack) Eagle (MM) Dinosaur, Leaellynasaura (Eberron) Carcass Eater (Libris Mortis) Barracuda (Stormwrack) Badger (MM) Baboon (MM) Vulture (Sandstorm) Stingray (Stormwrack) Seal (Frostburn) Sea Otter (Frostburn) Dire Rat (MM) Caribou (Frostburn) Arctic Fox (Frostburn) Albatross (Stormwrack) From that list, it looks like going for DM approval on Legendary animals is your best bet for combat. Many of the others make you a very good scout (eagle for flight and uber spot checks, cheetah or wolf for getting back to the group quickly, almost any animal for blending in to the surroundings/not attracting attention, etc.). It breaks down roughly into: forms with heightened senses (wolf - scent, eagle - good spot), forms with alternate/superior modes of travel (cheetah - fast, fish - swim, eagle - fly, ape - climb), and *"Who, me?" forms (the orcs are keeping watch for adventurers sneaking into camp, not bats flying overhead). Also good to know would be whether or not the fast movement you gain applies when you are wild shaped. I personally don't know. Hope this helps!
trapspringer 04-20-08, 11:05 PM	Erm... well, here's the breakdown: Animal forms grant you a variety of abilities that can be sculpted to fit a variety of encounter situations. Coupled with useful feats like improved grapple and improved trip, you can nickle-and-dime an opponent to death with a long chain of attacks that read something like "Pounce for full attack (two claws and a bite), grapple (damage as per unarmed strike), rake (another claw)." That's five separate attacks which are pretty weak on their own, but when you factor in your strength modifer (a total of damage + str x 4) you're doin' ok by most standards. Further, you've gotta' keep in mind the utility provided by all those animal forms. Suddenly you can circumvent challenges with your flight, climb, and swim speed. The extraordinary abilites of the animals are also worth looking at (like a cheetah's uber-run). You can see in all forms of light. No one can take away your weapons, and you can opt for a form with natural armor. You can heal yourself mid combat. Also, this opens up feats and prestige classes while you retain full BAB and good HD. It's not as good a druid, but then nothing is.
tdsaw111 04-21-08, 06:31 AM	You do not, as far as I know gain the special qualities of any form. You gain special attacks such as pounce or rake but not the cheetah's burst of speed, the sharks keen scent, etc. Still useful but the distinction between Special Attack and Special Quality takes away a lot of the flavor. It seems silly that you gain the trip attack of a wolf but not its enhanced senses, but it was a step taken most likely to give druids at least a stumbling block on their road to ownage. As far as I know the only way to get special qualities is to take MoMF to level 7, which grants you the ability to use any EX special qualities of any form you can take.
larry_the_titan 04-21-08, 02:46 PM	Thx for your posts. Theif of Hope, your list of creatures will probably come in handy. @tdsaw111, I am not a fan of the Wildshape Eratta. Primarily the rulings about vision types and Special Qualities. Bonus hp for Con mod wasn't a bad nerf but it kind of turns creatures into simple checks about what the creature Str, Dex and Natural Armor are for battle forms and with a lot of the special Qualities gone a lot of the utility forms become useless. I think I will add Tiny forms at 12th and large forms at 16th and huge forms at 20th for the time being. I think while slower progression might not be as good if they had went straight Druid it will allow Rangers fewer limits compared to handing over three feats. Though there might be other things to consider. The only reason I don't want to just leave it as written is I hate for a class feature to become weak if you Don't Prestige out before reaching a high level or Enter into epic were it becomes completely useless unless you focused on it and Small and Medium animals only would be completely useless in epic.
Tytalus 04-28-08, 08:15 AM	The wildshape ranger option is decent if used to qualify for Dragon Wildshape [Draconomicon]. Not as strong a the druid version by any means, though.