Wiz and Src, new abilities [Archive] - Wizards Community

Wiz and Src, new abilities [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
codemancac
05-01-07, 12:34 AM I’m hoping to find or develop an ability for the sorcerer and wizard that makes each slightly more powerful and also more unique. A pair of ideas:

The Sorcerer: Recasting from Spell Slots

A sorcerer may regain a spell slot as a standard action by making a concentration check. However, this process is taxing; he suffers nonlethal damage (half if NOT successful) as denoted in the table below. To cast from a regained spell slot, the sorcerer must make a spellcraft check. This too is difficult and he suffers the same amount of nonlethal damage (again half if unsuccessful). Otherwise, he casts the spell as normal.

Formulas: DC for all skill checks=15+Double the Spell Level, Damage=5*Spell Level.

Table: Spell Level, Check DC, Damage, Half Damage

SL DC DM HDM
0. 15 0. 0.
1. 17 5. 2.
2. 19 10 5.
3. 21 15 7.
4. 23 20 10
5. 25 25 12
6. 27 30 15
7. 29 35 17
8. 31 40 20
9. 33 45 22

The Wizard: Spellbook Casting

A wizard may cast directly out of his spellbook; this process takes 15 minutes, plus the normal casting time of the spell. It requires a successful Concentration Check (same DCs shown in the table above). If the wizard is adding metamagic to the spell, he must also make a spellcraft check of the same DC. If the wizard fails the concentration check to cast the spell, he can attempt a spellcraft check to diffuse the energies (losing the spell); otherwise, it is subject to a mishap, similar to scroll mishaps (see DMG 238).

For each spell diffused or subject to a mishap within a 50-foot radius during the past 24 hours (due to a failed concentration check), the DC of all concentration and spellcraft checks increases by 2.

- - - - -
codemancac
bartleby42
05-02-07, 01:02 AM The Sorcerer: Recasting from Spell Slots

Okay, let me see if I have this striaght:

1. Make a concentration check to "regain" a spell slot
2. If the concentration check fails take X/2 Damage and do not "regain" the spell slot.
2b. If you pass take X damage and "regain" the spell slot.
3. To cast from "regained" spell slots repeat step 2/2b with spellcraft instead

Honestly I see this as too restricitive. One check should be enough. I wouldn't be quite so harsh on HP, eighter you will kill your PC or they won't even have to worry about it. This reminds me of the old Spells and magic channeler varient.

Though I would be tempted to make it into a bonus feat given to all sorcs at 1st level, just for flavor's sake and so the odd bard/warmage/ect can pick it up, and so it can be better without guilt. So here is my suggestion:

Channeling

Prereqs: Spontainous Arcane caster level 1

Benifit: You can attempt to cast a spell without expending a spell slot. When you cast a spell you may attempt to channel, to do so you must make a concentration check DC= 10 + (Spell level) x 5, in order to not expend the spell slot. If you fail the concentration check you fail to cast the spell, lose the spell slot and become fatigued, if you already are fatigued you become exaushted instead. If you succed you cast the spell without expending the spell slot, however you do take Con damage equal to half of the level of the spell being cast (minimum one).

Special: All sorcerers gain this feat at 1st level. You may take this feat more than once, each time it applies to a new class.

The Wizard: Spellbook Casting

I would suggest against this. A wizard can "re-learn" his spells for the day, so there really isn't any reason for this, other than to give wizards with lots of time unlimited spells.
Drachasor
05-02-07, 01:30 AM Those checks are too easy. Steady Concentration + Skill Focus (Concentration) = never lose spells as a Sorcerer.

It's not like Wizards or Sorcs need a power up....nor is it like they run out of spells much at higher levels. Why exactly do you want to make this rule?

-Drachasor
codemancac
05-02-07, 06:39 PM bartleby42:

Thanks for the critique. I like the channeling ability you posted.

Re: the sorcerer. Looking back, I agree; it may be too restrictive. Nevertheless, I do want to spread the casting out over two rounds so that an empty sorcerer with good skill checks cannot cast every round. Also, you're right - too much damage.

Drachasor:

My main reason for wanting these abilities is for flavor. I've seen a lot of movies, shows, and games where a wizard could cast anything out of his spellbook. And I've seen a lot where a sorcerous-type-character could push himself and push himself until he was unconscious or dead from the strain. I'd like to emulate both.

So, I'm hoping to find a couple abilities that reflect this. I want them to enhance the uniqueness of characters without breaking combat or otherwise making either class significantly more powerful.
Patrick Draken-Korin
05-05-07, 06:31 PM For the sorcerer, I like it. Maybe reduce the damage to 3 per spell level? And if you were to increase the DC by 3 per level, that might be better to avoid having such an easy time like Drachasor stated. As for making sure the sorcerer doesn't cast every round, the regain-a-spell concentration check has already been stated as a standard action.

Level: DC?? Success / Fail (average+ranks+feat*)
0: DC15 0 / 0 (10+2+3, easy at level 1)
1: DC18 3 / 1 (10+5+3, easy at level 2)
2: DC21 6 / 3 (10+8+3, easy at level 5, 1 after access to these spells at level 4)
3: DC24 9 / 4 (10+11+3, easy at level 8, 2 after access to these spells at level 6)
4: DC27 12 / 6 (10+14+3, easy at level 11, 3 after access to these spells at level 8)
5: DC30 15 / 7 (10+17+3, easy at level 14, 4 after access to these spells at level 10)
6: DC33 18 / 9 (10+20+3, easy at level 17, 5 after access to these spells at level 12)
7: DC36 21 / 10 (10+23+3, easy at level 20, 6 after access to these spells at level 14)
8: DC39 24 / 12 (10+26+3, easy at level 23, 7 after access to these spells at level 16, and into epic play)
9: DC42 27 / 13 (10+29+3, easy at level 26, 8 after access to these spells at level 18, and into epic play)
*I'll give the sorcerer Skill Focus (Concentration)

I like the flavor of the book-casting idea, but maybe it should be more difficult; DC 20 +3 per spell level, 5 higher than an equivalent sorcerer attempt. This maintains the more limited rate of casting for wizards in comparison to sorcerers; harder to cast the spell but more possibilities.
codemancac
05-05-07, 09:43 PM Thanks, Patrick! I really like your ideas. That scale looks about right, too.

So, for the sorcerer, I'm seeing 3*Spell Level points of damage (halved on a failure), with a skill check of 15+potential damage. And then for the wizard, it would be 20+(3*spell level).

So what do you think: one or two checks? Damage only immediately after casting the spell, or on the first check as well?
Patrick Draken-Korin
05-07-07, 09:16 PM I Don't really think 2 check are necessary. Normal spellcasting doesn't require making spellcraft checks, and to my mind, these recovered & book-cast spells should be treated the same as normal magic. It's just one extra way to cast spells not a variant magic branch like incarnum or invocations.

As for the damage, I'd apply that with the relevant concentration check. Sorcerers take the damage when recovering a spell, and may choose whether or not to cast the spell immediately on the following round or save it for later. Wizards may cast a spell from their spellbook at no spell slot expense and take damage probably upon completing the spell (at the end of the casting time).

I just noticed that neither ability is stated directly to provoke attacks of opportunity, though I guess it is obvious as yet another caster-derivative. Still mentioning it to stave off any munchinisms.

I'm glad you like the scaling system. I'm wary about suggesting it to people in epic play, and in games where any skill can have competence bonuses applied through magic items, but otherwise it seems nice and fair.

I'd also suggest that you limit possible mishap with a failed book-casting attempt to a concentration check failure of 5 or less, thus only a near success draws enough energies to possibly cause difficulties.

I also suggest that a successfully diffused spell (or one that never gathered enough energy to be cast) not actually cause difficulty for further attempts. Instead I'd have both successful spells and mishapped spells apply a cumulative -2 penalty on further attempts as they are both applications with mystical significance, while IMHO total failures and diffused energies are not.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
codemancac 05-01-07, 12:34 AM	I’m hoping to find or develop an ability for the sorcerer and wizard that makes each slightly more powerful and also more unique. A pair of ideas: The Sorcerer: Recasting from Spell Slots A sorcerer may regain a spell slot as a standard action by making a concentration check. However, this process is taxing; he suffers nonlethal damage (half if NOT successful) as denoted in the table below. To cast from a regained spell slot, the sorcerer must make a spellcraft check. This too is difficult and he suffers the same amount of nonlethal damage (again half if unsuccessful). Otherwise, he casts the spell as normal. Formulas: DC for all skill checks=15+Double the Spell Level, Damage=5*Spell Level. Table: Spell Level, Check DC, Damage, Half Damage SL DC DM HDM 0. 15 0. 0. 1. 17 5. 2. 2. 19 10 5. 3. 21 15 7. 4. 23 20 10 5. 25 25 12 6. 27 30 15 7. 29 35 17 8. 31 40 20 9. 33 45 22 The Wizard: Spellbook Casting A wizard may cast directly out of his spellbook; this process takes 15 minutes, plus the normal casting time of the spell. It requires a successful Concentration Check (same DCs shown in the table above). If the wizard is adding metamagic to the spell, he must also make a spellcraft check of the same DC. If the wizard fails the concentration check to cast the spell, he can attempt a spellcraft check to diffuse the energies (losing the spell); otherwise, it is subject to a mishap, similar to scroll mishaps (see DMG 238). For each spell diffused or subject to a mishap within a 50-foot radius during the past 24 hours (due to a failed concentration check), the DC of all concentration and spellcraft checks increases by 2. - - - - - codemancac
bartleby42 05-02-07, 01:02 AM	The Sorcerer: Recasting from Spell Slots Okay, let me see if I have this striaght: 1. Make a concentration check to "regain" a spell slot 2. If the concentration check fails take X/2 Damage and do not "regain" the spell slot. 2b. If you pass take X damage and "regain" the spell slot. 3. To cast from "regained" spell slots repeat step 2/2b with spellcraft instead Honestly I see this as too restricitive. One check should be enough. I wouldn't be quite so harsh on HP, eighter you will kill your PC or they won't even have to worry about it. This reminds me of the old Spells and magic channeler varient. Though I would be tempted to make it into a bonus feat given to all sorcs at 1st level, just for flavor's sake and so the odd bard/warmage/ect can pick it up, and so it can be better without guilt. So here is my suggestion: Channeling Prereqs: Spontainous Arcane caster level 1 Benifit: You can attempt to cast a spell without expending a spell slot. When you cast a spell you may attempt to channel, to do so you must make a concentration check DC= 10 + (Spell level) x 5, in order to not expend the spell slot. If you fail the concentration check you fail to cast the spell, lose the spell slot and become fatigued, if you already are fatigued you become exaushted instead. If you succed you cast the spell without expending the spell slot, however you do take Con damage equal to half of the level of the spell being cast (minimum one). Special: All sorcerers gain this feat at 1st level. You may take this feat more than once, each time it applies to a new class. The Wizard: Spellbook Casting I would suggest against this. A wizard can "re-learn" his spells for the day, so there really isn't any reason for this, other than to give wizards with lots of time unlimited spells.
Drachasor 05-02-07, 01:30 AM	Those checks are too easy. Steady Concentration + Skill Focus (Concentration) = never lose spells as a Sorcerer. It's not like Wizards or Sorcs need a power up....nor is it like they run out of spells much at higher levels. Why exactly do you want to make this rule? -Drachasor
codemancac 05-02-07, 06:39 PM	bartleby42: Thanks for the critique. I like the channeling ability you posted. Re: the sorcerer. Looking back, I agree; it may be too restrictive. Nevertheless, I do want to spread the casting out over two rounds so that an empty sorcerer with good skill checks cannot cast every round. Also, you're right - too much damage. Drachasor: My main reason for wanting these abilities is for flavor. I've seen a lot of movies, shows, and games where a wizard could cast anything out of his spellbook. And I've seen a lot where a sorcerous-type-character could push himself and push himself until he was unconscious or dead from the strain. I'd like to emulate both. So, I'm hoping to find a couple abilities that reflect this. I want them to enhance the uniqueness of characters without breaking combat or otherwise making either class significantly more powerful.
Patrick Draken-Korin 05-05-07, 06:31 PM	For the sorcerer, I like it. Maybe reduce the damage to 3 per spell level? And if you were to increase the DC by 3 per level, that might be better to avoid having such an easy time like Drachasor stated. As for making sure the sorcerer doesn't cast every round, the regain-a-spell concentration check has already been stated as a standard action. Level: DC?? Success / Fail (average+ranks+feat) 0: DC15 0 / 0 (10+2+3, easy at level 1) 1: DC18 3 / 1 (10+5+3, easy at level 2) 2: DC21 6 / 3 (10+8+3, easy at level 5, 1 after access to these spells at level 4) 3: DC24 9 / 4 (10+11+3, easy at level 8, 2 after access to these spells at level 6) 4: DC27 12 / 6 (10+14+3, easy at level 11, 3 after access to these spells at level 8) 5: DC30 15 / 7 (10+17+3, easy at level 14, 4 after access to these spells at level 10) 6: DC33 18 / 9 (10+20+3, easy at level 17, 5 after access to these spells at level 12) 7: DC36 21 / 10 (10+23+3, easy at level 20, 6 after access to these spells at level 14) 8: DC39 24 / 12 (10+26+3, easy at level 23, 7 after access to these spells at level 16, and into epic play) 9: DC42 27 / 13 (10+29+3, easy at level 26, 8 after access to these spells at level 18, and into epic play) I'll give the sorcerer Skill Focus (Concentration) I like the flavor of the book-casting idea, but maybe it should be more difficult; DC 20 +3 per spell level, 5 higher than an equivalent sorcerer attempt. This maintains the more limited rate of casting for wizards in comparison to sorcerers; harder to cast the spell but more possibilities.
codemancac 05-05-07, 09:43 PM	Thanks, Patrick! I really like your ideas. That scale looks about right, too. So, for the sorcerer, I'm seeing 3Spell Level points of damage (halved on a failure), with a skill check of 15+potential damage. And then for the wizard, it would be 20+(3spell level). So what do you think: one or two checks? Damage only immediately after casting the spell, or on the first check as well?
Patrick Draken-Korin 05-07-07, 09:16 PM	I Don't really think 2 check are necessary. Normal spellcasting doesn't require making spellcraft checks, and to my mind, these recovered & book-cast spells should be treated the same as normal magic. It's just one extra way to cast spells not a variant magic branch like incarnum or invocations. As for the damage, I'd apply that with the relevant concentration check. Sorcerers take the damage when recovering a spell, and may choose whether or not to cast the spell immediately on the following round or save it for later. Wizards may cast a spell from their spellbook at no spell slot expense and take damage probably upon completing the spell (at the end of the casting time). I just noticed that neither ability is stated directly to provoke attacks of opportunity, though I guess it is obvious as yet another caster-derivative. Still mentioning it to stave off any munchinisms. I'm glad you like the scaling system. I'm wary about suggesting it to people in epic play, and in games where any skill can have competence bonuses applied through magic items, but otherwise it seems nice and fair. I'd also suggest that you limit possible mishap with a failed book-casting attempt to a concentration check failure of 5 or less, thus only a near success draws enough energies to possibly cause difficulties. I also suggest that a successfully diffused spell (or one that never gathered enough energy to be cast) not actually cause difficulty for further attempts. Instead I'd have both successful spells and mishapped spells apply a cumulative -2 penalty on further attempts as they are both applications with mystical significance, while IMHO total failures and diffused energies are not.