Wizard Variant : Battle Wizard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Wizard Variant : Battle Wizard? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Twilight Herald
04-06-04, 10:25 PM I liked the Battle Sorcerer variant that was introduced in UA, but was disappointed that a similar Wizard version was not included. That being said, here's the homebrew Battle Wizard that I'll be introducing as an option in my current campaign. I'd appreciate any feedback on how appropriate or well-balanced this class is as compared to the Battle Sorcerer, which I'm trying to mimic as closely as possible for reasons of consistency.

WIZARD VARIANT : BATTLE WIZARD

The Battle Wizard is an arcanist who has received rigorous training in military tactics and close combat styles in order to augment and complement his magical prowess.

Hit Die : d8

Base Attack Bonus : Battle Wizards use the cleric base attack bonus.

Class Skills : Remove Profession from the battle wizard's class skill list. Add Intimidate to the battle wizard's class skill list.

CLASS FEATURES : The battle wizard has all the standard wizard class features except as noted below.

Weapon and Armour proficiency : At 1st level, battle wizards gain proficency with any light or one handed martial weapon of the character's choice. They also gain light armour proficiency.

Spellcasting: A battle wizard can cast wizard spells derived from her core class levels while in light armour without the usual risk of arcane spell failure. A battle wizard has fewer daily spell slots than a standard wizard. Subtract one spell per day from the usual daily allowance per level, as per the Players Handbook. A battle wizard's grasp of the overall mechanics of magic is less complete than his academic peers. At 1st level, a battle wizard must select 2 oppositional schools of magic, as if he or she were a specialist ( note that the battle wizard cannot choose to specialize, however ). The battle wizard may not designate Divination or Evocation as one of these banned schools. Battle wizards may never learn or cast spells from these schools, wield scrolls from these schools, or activate magical items that mimic these schools if such activation is spell trigger or spell completion.

Well, that's how the class stands so far. Any and all opinions on how well this is balanced against the other variant classes in
Unearthed Arcana would be much appreciated.
SykeXero
04-07-04, 12:52 AM That is about right.

I don't think you should nix Craft. Everyone has access to craft from the commoner to the archmage and this should be no different.

You forgot to note that the Battle Wizard can cast spells in light armor.

Other than that :thumbsup:
Lina_Inverse
04-07-04, 12:54 AM you forgot dosent learn spells automaticlly,the battle sorc knows one less spell,the only way to balence that hindrence is all spells MUST be from scrolls.even then your still a bad cleric.
Twilight Herald
04-07-04, 01:24 AM Originally posted by SykeXero
That is about right.

I don't think you should nix Craft. Everyone has access to craft from the commoner to the archmage and this should be no different.

You forgot to note that the Battle Wizard can cast spells in light armor.

Other than that :thumbsup:

You're probably right about Craft, I'll alter this to losing the Profession skill instead. I'm pretty sure I mentioned the casting in light armour, though - I'll have to go back and check. Thanks for the critiques, keep them coming!:)
Laiqualasse
04-07-04, 02:27 AM It seems pretty balanced to me with the inclusion of prohibited schools without specialization. Out of curiosity, though, how would you set it up if you wanted a specialized battle wizard? Maybe that would just be more of a headache than it's worth.

Originally posted by Lina_Inverse
you forgot dosent learn spells automaticlly,the battle sorc knows one less spell,the only way to balence that hindrence is all spells MUST be from scrolls.even then your still a bad cleric.

You say "bad cleric", but generally speaking, arcane spells are simply more powerful in combat than divine spells, which is why the standard divine caster, the cleric, has more combat ability of his own to make up for it. The battle sorcerer / wizard are really more along the lines of "arcane clerics", so to speak.
Lina_Inverse
04-07-04, 02:43 AM Originally posted by Laiqualasse
It seems pretty balanced to me with the inclusion of prohibited schools without specialization. Out of curiosity, though, how would you set it up if you wanted a specialized battle wizard? Maybe that would just be more of a headache than it's worth.

You say "bad cleric", but generally speaking, arcane spells are simply more powerful in combat than divine spells, which is why the standard divine caster, the cleric, has more combat ability of his own to make up for it. The battle sorcerer / wizard are really more along the lines of "arcane clerics", so to speak.

ummmm no?this is a 2E holdover,i always play casters so trust me i know.cleric spells are easily as strong as wizard spells,although they lack the utility spells there combat abilitys are just as good,IF NOT BETTER than a wizards.a wizard shouldnt cast fireball,he should cast hold person.and if we do compare pure nukes flamestrike and firestorm are better than cone of cold and delayed blast fireball.hell firestorm is better than meteostorm.

so the only area that clerics dont accel at is utility,which magic domain fixes up quite nicely.or some other domain.
clerics would be balenced at mage BAB,saves&d6 hitdice(ill give em that for the utility spells)druid too,the animal companion,skills and INCREDIBLE usefullness of wildshape compensate for ths slightly worse spell list.
Thelon Fairblade
04-07-04, 09:44 AM I think the "BattleWizard" idea is a bad idea. The BattleSorc is a smooth concept, blending "innate magic" with a martial focus. And it boosts the Sorc base class concept that most people aknowledge needed a boost with respect to the Wizard.

The BattleWiz is adequately represented, IMO, by Eldritch Knight, Spellsword, Rautmari BattleMage, BladeSinger, etc...
Twilight Herald
04-07-04, 10:31 AM Originally posted by Thelon Fairblade
IThe BattleWiz is adequately represented, IMO, by Eldritch Knight, Spellsword, Rautmari BattleMage, BladeSinger, etc...

True, but I've never liked the whole clunky progression of Prestige Classes and multiclassing that has to be engaged in to produce a Wizard who can adequately defend himself with sword and mail. We're starting to see a tendency towards new core classes filling specialized roles, e.g Hexblade, Swashbuckler, Healer, Marshal et al, and I don't think it would hurt to add a sword-savvy Wizard. We have the battle sorcerer, WarMage, savage bard, etc, all spontaneous arcane spellcasting classes who can fight a little, so I think it would be good for once to see a prepared arcane spellcasting class, i.e wizard, given a similar variant.
Lina_Inverse
04-07-04, 10:34 AM im gonna say something,i can see a sorcerer ripped and ready to fight with the best of them.i cannot say that of the wizard,he is supposed to be educated and learned.learned men arent front line fighters often espilly one who sat in a library for 10 years:D
Twilight Herald
04-07-04, 11:15 AM Originally posted by Lina_Inverse
im gonna say something,i can see a sorcerer ripped and ready to fight with the best of them.i cannot say that of the wizard,he is supposed to be educated and learned.learned men arent front line fighters often espilly one who sat in a library for 10 years:D

Usually true, but a dedicated Guild or Academy of Battle Wizardry might easily produce a learned man who is also a dab hand with a sword and knows how to put chainmail on the right way around. Think how much more interesting dreary academic debates would be if the arcane faculty members were packing cold steel, mithril chain and a bad attitude to boot.:D
Lina_Inverse
04-07-04, 11:19 AM :D sounds more like a PrC.PCs need to earn guild rights,its not like the npcs are first level or anything.....
Thelon Fairblade
04-08-04, 01:29 PM Alternate ideas: Take a level of fighter, then all wizard. Specialize in spells that have no somatic components *or* accept a 1 spell level reduction in power, and take Still Spell.

The latter is what the "fighter-mages" in my campaign do. The leader of the group is a Fighter 1 / Wizard 7 who strides around in self-crafted Full Plate +2, wielding a greatsword +2. He fires 7d6 lightning bolts out of his sword (special effect, no game mechanics, just to look cool) and spreads of magic missiles as necessary. (his 1st level spell slots are usually used for non-somatic spells, or for pre-/post-combat spells)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Twilight Herald 04-06-04, 10:25 PM	I liked the Battle Sorcerer variant that was introduced in UA, but was disappointed that a similar Wizard version was not included. That being said, here's the homebrew Battle Wizard that I'll be introducing as an option in my current campaign. I'd appreciate any feedback on how appropriate or well-balanced this class is as compared to the Battle Sorcerer, which I'm trying to mimic as closely as possible for reasons of consistency. WIZARD VARIANT : BATTLE WIZARD The Battle Wizard is an arcanist who has received rigorous training in military tactics and close combat styles in order to augment and complement his magical prowess. Hit Die : d8 Base Attack Bonus : Battle Wizards use the cleric base attack bonus. Class Skills : Remove Profession from the battle wizard's class skill list. Add Intimidate to the battle wizard's class skill list. CLASS FEATURES : The battle wizard has all the standard wizard class features except as noted below. Weapon and Armour proficiency : At 1st level, battle wizards gain proficency with any light or one handed martial weapon of the character's choice. They also gain light armour proficiency. Spellcasting: A battle wizard can cast wizard spells derived from her core class levels while in light armour without the usual risk of arcane spell failure. A battle wizard has fewer daily spell slots than a standard wizard. Subtract one spell per day from the usual daily allowance per level, as per the Players Handbook. A battle wizard's grasp of the overall mechanics of magic is less complete than his academic peers. At 1st level, a battle wizard must select 2 oppositional schools of magic, as if he or she were a specialist ( note that the battle wizard cannot choose to specialize, however ). The battle wizard may not designate Divination or Evocation as one of these banned schools. Battle wizards may never learn or cast spells from these schools, wield scrolls from these schools, or activate magical items that mimic these schools if such activation is spell trigger or spell completion. Well, that's how the class stands so far. Any and all opinions on how well this is balanced against the other variant classes in Unearthed Arcana would be much appreciated.
SykeXero 04-07-04, 12:52 AM	That is about right. I don't think you should nix Craft. Everyone has access to craft from the commoner to the archmage and this should be no different. You forgot to note that the Battle Wizard can cast spells in light armor. Other than that :thumbsup:
Lina_Inverse 04-07-04, 12:54 AM	you forgot dosent learn spells automaticlly,the battle sorc knows one less spell,the only way to balence that hindrence is all spells MUST be from scrolls.even then your still a bad cleric.
Twilight Herald 04-07-04, 01:24 AM	Originally posted by SykeXero That is about right. I don't think you should nix Craft. Everyone has access to craft from the commoner to the archmage and this should be no different. You forgot to note that the Battle Wizard can cast spells in light armor. Other than that :thumbsup: You're probably right about Craft, I'll alter this to losing the Profession skill instead. I'm pretty sure I mentioned the casting in light armour, though - I'll have to go back and check. Thanks for the critiques, keep them coming!:)
Laiqualasse 04-07-04, 02:27 AM	It seems pretty balanced to me with the inclusion of prohibited schools without specialization. Out of curiosity, though, how would you set it up if you wanted a specialized battle wizard? Maybe that would just be more of a headache than it's worth. Originally posted by Lina_Inverse you forgot dosent learn spells automaticlly,the battle sorc knows one less spell,the only way to balence that hindrence is all spells MUST be from scrolls.even then your still a bad cleric. You say "bad cleric", but generally speaking, arcane spells are simply more powerful in combat than divine spells, which is why the standard divine caster, the cleric, has more combat ability of his own to make up for it. The battle sorcerer / wizard are really more along the lines of "arcane clerics", so to speak.
Lina_Inverse 04-07-04, 02:43 AM	Originally posted by Laiqualasse It seems pretty balanced to me with the inclusion of prohibited schools without specialization. Out of curiosity, though, how would you set it up if you wanted a specialized battle wizard? Maybe that would just be more of a headache than it's worth. You say "bad cleric", but generally speaking, arcane spells are simply more powerful in combat than divine spells, which is why the standard divine caster, the cleric, has more combat ability of his own to make up for it. The battle sorcerer / wizard are really more along the lines of "arcane clerics", so to speak. ummmm no?this is a 2E holdover,i always play casters so trust me i know.cleric spells are easily as strong as wizard spells,although they lack the utility spells there combat abilitys are just as good,IF NOT BETTER than a wizards.a wizard shouldnt cast fireball,he should cast hold person.and if we do compare pure nukes flamestrike and firestorm are better than cone of cold and delayed blast fireball.hell firestorm is better than meteostorm. so the only area that clerics dont accel at is utility,which magic domain fixes up quite nicely.or some other domain. clerics would be balenced at mage BAB,saves&d6 hitdice(ill give em that for the utility spells)druid too,the animal companion,skills and INCREDIBLE usefullness of wildshape compensate for ths slightly worse spell list.
Thelon Fairblade 04-07-04, 09:44 AM	I think the "BattleWizard" idea is a bad idea. The BattleSorc is a smooth concept, blending "innate magic" with a martial focus. And it boosts the Sorc base class concept that most people aknowledge needed a boost with respect to the Wizard. The BattleWiz is adequately represented, IMO, by Eldritch Knight, Spellsword, Rautmari BattleMage, BladeSinger, etc...
Twilight Herald 04-07-04, 10:31 AM	Originally posted by Thelon Fairblade IThe BattleWiz is adequately represented, IMO, by Eldritch Knight, Spellsword, Rautmari BattleMage, BladeSinger, etc... True, but I've never liked the whole clunky progression of Prestige Classes and multiclassing that has to be engaged in to produce a Wizard who can adequately defend himself with sword and mail. We're starting to see a tendency towards new core classes filling specialized roles, e.g Hexblade, Swashbuckler, Healer, Marshal et al, and I don't think it would hurt to add a sword-savvy Wizard. We have the battle sorcerer, WarMage, savage bard, etc, all spontaneous arcane spellcasting classes who can fight a little, so I think it would be good for once to see a prepared arcane spellcasting class, i.e wizard, given a similar variant.
Lina_Inverse 04-07-04, 10:34 AM	im gonna say something,i can see a sorcerer ripped and ready to fight with the best of them.i cannot say that of the wizard,he is supposed to be educated and learned.learned men arent front line fighters often espilly one who sat in a library for 10 years:D
Twilight Herald 04-07-04, 11:15 AM	Originally posted by Lina_Inverse im gonna say something,i can see a sorcerer ripped and ready to fight with the best of them.i cannot say that of the wizard,he is supposed to be educated and learned.learned men arent front line fighters often espilly one who sat in a library for 10 years:D Usually true, but a dedicated Guild or Academy of Battle Wizardry might easily produce a learned man who is also a dab hand with a sword and knows how to put chainmail on the right way around. Think how much more interesting dreary academic debates would be if the arcane faculty members were packing cold steel, mithril chain and a bad attitude to boot.:D
Lina_Inverse 04-07-04, 11:19 AM	:D sounds more like a PrC.PCs need to earn guild rights,its not like the npcs are first level or anything.....
Thelon Fairblade 04-08-04, 01:29 PM	Alternate ideas: Take a level of fighter, then all wizard. Specialize in spells that have no somatic components or accept a 1 spell level reduction in power, and take Still Spell. The latter is what the "fighter-mages" in my campaign do. The leader of the group is a Fighter 1 / Wizard 7 who strides around in self-crafted Full Plate +2, wielding a greatsword +2. He fires 7d6 lightning bolts out of his sword (special effect, no game mechanics, just to look cool) and spreads of magic missiles as necessary. (his 1st level spell slots are usually used for non-somatic spells, or for pre-/post-combat spells)