would like comments on modified rule set [Archive] - Wizards Community

would like comments on modified rule set [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nathreet
11-09-06, 04:59 PM I'd like to set up some house rules in the far future, so I'd like some comments on them. The main issue is getting it to work with existing campaigns and monsters, though there are other issues (like balance, of course).

Goals: less ridiculous power gain with level, more wondorous fantasy and strategy.

1. HP and saves are replaced. "Fortitude" (FP), "Will" (WP) and "Reflexes" (RP) take their place. Fortitude = Fort Save + 6, etc. Damage goes to FP. Certain spellcasters expend WP (see below). Saves are done in the usual way, except your saves start 6 higher and go down from there (as you lose FP, etc.). You receive 1 point of damage to FP/WP/RP even if you make the save. For FP this is subdual damage. FP and WP heal at the rate of 1 per day. FP can heal faster, per the standard HP rules. RP heal after every encounter.

Reasons: no more ridiculous HP totals. WP and RP can become expendables for certain abilities. The rest is more or less the same: death still comes at -10 FP, etc.

2. Replace the entire magic system. Low magic world, but more in power than in scope (it's still common). New magic systems:

A. Force of will (WP). Spells take time and concentration, at least 2 rounds. Spells accomplish concrete tasks rather than dealing XX to XX stat for XX time. Most are instantaneous or permanent.

B. Recipes (rare ingredients). Spells come from a set of instructions and ingredients. One ingredient is rare: e.g., "moldy cheese, armpit hair, and the big toe of a 50' tall cyclops". Incantations are poetic. Anybody can cast them if they follow the directions step by step, though knowledge is very helpful. This system appears in many fairy tales and adventure games, btw.

Reasons: Magic is the primary source of everything power-gaming in DND. These setups remove the quick-fixes that spells provide, while still retaining (or improving) a fantasy ambiance. Also note the lack of magical healing. Suddenly wounds matter after combat is over. Ranks in heal and bandages matter. Death matters.

3. Classes: Rogue, Fighter, Barbarian and Ranger would stay; Cleric and Wizard would go (or be dramatically different, perhaps become professions not classes), Druid and Sorceror might stay with revisions. Paladin would likely meld into fighter.

4. Misc: Various class abilities would have to be nerfed, but it shouldn't be too complicated. Creatures would only get 1 attack per round, etc. Feats would have to be revised a little: Great Fortitude changed to +1, etc. Skill rules and most other rules would remain the same. DCs for reflex saves would likely increase by 5, since RP heals so quick. Or many exhausting actions, like charge, could eat up RP (even though RP doesn't affect most of these actions, these actions affect RP). I admit RP needs some work...

5. Possible Additons: I might revise the combat system to make more sense, but it works well enough as-is, even for an extra-fantasy setting.

And it all has to work with the existing rules and campaigns... comments?
antsterr
11-09-06, 07:03 PM yikes, a total overhaul of the engine that drives D&D. It's a little complicated, I'd shoot for something simpler.
Nathreet
11-10-06, 02:46 AM Only HP, saves and magic. The rest stays the same. Even HP and saves stay similar. Though getting rid of dnd magic is like getting rid of dungeons or getting rid of dragons, I know.
Darkmatter20
11-10-06, 08:29 AM I think what antsterr is trying to say is that such changes to such fundamentals will require a change in the entire system to remain stable.

While you are changing what appear to be small things (with the exception of magic which you have pretty much removed) the entire system is built on these at its foundations. The changes are also quite extensive.

Reasons: Magic is the primary source of everything power-gaming in DND. These setups remove the quick-fixes that spells provide, while still retaining (or improving) a fantasy ambiance. Also note the lack of magical healing. Suddenly wounds matter after combat is over. Ranks in heal and bandages matter. Death matters.

You have stated that you consider magic to be the primary source of all powergaming. Are these changes to remove "powergaming" from your group?

As it stands you're better off playing a different game rather then trying to reinvent DnD system into something completely different.
Nathreet
11-10-06, 03:22 PM My basic question was can this made to be fit within dnd and how? Answer seems to be, "no".

I like the simplicity of the D20 system, especially the combat system. The main thing I'd be trying to revamp would be the magic system.

So, assuming I can get the new HP system ("FP") & save system to work, does everybody think dumping the magic system would screw over everything?
LycaonDarkmoon
11-16-06, 11:22 AM Look into the Injury, Class defense and Armor as DR rules in Unearthed Arcana. I'm using them in my campaign (also a low magic setting) they're great. They make combat much more realistic and gruesome without needing to completely overhaul the mechanics (and thus everything else in the game that uses those mechanics). These rules alone are worth the price of the book and should be part of the fundemental fabric of all D20 based games from now on! Warning though, they don't work that elegantly if you use all 3 together as written, you will need to tweak them a bit.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nathreet 11-09-06, 04:59 PM	I'd like to set up some house rules in the far future, so I'd like some comments on them. The main issue is getting it to work with existing campaigns and monsters, though there are other issues (like balance, of course). Goals: less ridiculous power gain with level, more wondorous fantasy and strategy. 1. HP and saves are replaced. "Fortitude" (FP), "Will" (WP) and "Reflexes" (RP) take their place. Fortitude = Fort Save + 6, etc. Damage goes to FP. Certain spellcasters expend WP (see below). Saves are done in the usual way, except your saves start 6 higher and go down from there (as you lose FP, etc.). You receive 1 point of damage to FP/WP/RP even if you make the save. For FP this is subdual damage. FP and WP heal at the rate of 1 per day. FP can heal faster, per the standard HP rules. RP heal after every encounter. Reasons: no more ridiculous HP totals. WP and RP can become expendables for certain abilities. The rest is more or less the same: death still comes at -10 FP, etc. 2. Replace the entire magic system. Low magic world, but more in power than in scope (it's still common). New magic systems: A. Force of will (WP). Spells take time and concentration, at least 2 rounds. Spells accomplish concrete tasks rather than dealing XX to XX stat for XX time. Most are instantaneous or permanent. B. Recipes (rare ingredients). Spells come from a set of instructions and ingredients. One ingredient is rare: e.g., "moldy cheese, armpit hair, and the big toe of a 50' tall cyclops". Incantations are poetic. Anybody can cast them if they follow the directions step by step, though knowledge is very helpful. This system appears in many fairy tales and adventure games, btw. Reasons: Magic is the primary source of everything power-gaming in DND. These setups remove the quick-fixes that spells provide, while still retaining (or improving) a fantasy ambiance. Also note the lack of magical healing. Suddenly wounds matter after combat is over. Ranks in heal and bandages matter. Death matters. 3. Classes: Rogue, Fighter, Barbarian and Ranger would stay; Cleric and Wizard would go (or be dramatically different, perhaps become professions not classes), Druid and Sorceror might stay with revisions. Paladin would likely meld into fighter. 4. Misc: Various class abilities would have to be nerfed, but it shouldn't be too complicated. Creatures would only get 1 attack per round, etc. Feats would have to be revised a little: Great Fortitude changed to +1, etc. Skill rules and most other rules would remain the same. DCs for reflex saves would likely increase by 5, since RP heals so quick. Or many exhausting actions, like charge, could eat up RP (even though RP doesn't affect most of these actions, these actions affect RP). I admit RP needs some work... 5. Possible Additons: I might revise the combat system to make more sense, but it works well enough as-is, even for an extra-fantasy setting. And it all has to work with the existing rules and campaigns... comments?
antsterr 11-09-06, 07:03 PM	yikes, a total overhaul of the engine that drives D&D. It's a little complicated, I'd shoot for something simpler.
Nathreet 11-10-06, 02:46 AM	Only HP, saves and magic. The rest stays the same. Even HP and saves stay similar. Though getting rid of dnd magic is like getting rid of dungeons or getting rid of dragons, I know.
Darkmatter20 11-10-06, 08:29 AM	I think what antsterr is trying to say is that such changes to such fundamentals will require a change in the entire system to remain stable. While you are changing what appear to be small things (with the exception of magic which you have pretty much removed) the entire system is built on these at its foundations. The changes are also quite extensive. Reasons: Magic is the primary source of everything power-gaming in DND. These setups remove the quick-fixes that spells provide, while still retaining (or improving) a fantasy ambiance. Also note the lack of magical healing. Suddenly wounds matter after combat is over. Ranks in heal and bandages matter. Death matters. You have stated that you consider magic to be the primary source of all powergaming. Are these changes to remove "powergaming" from your group? As it stands you're better off playing a different game rather then trying to reinvent DnD system into something completely different.
Nathreet 11-10-06, 03:22 PM	My basic question was can this made to be fit within dnd and how? Answer seems to be, "no". I like the simplicity of the D20 system, especially the combat system. The main thing I'd be trying to revamp would be the magic system. So, assuming I can get the new HP system ("FP") & save system to work, does everybody think dumping the magic system would screw over everything?
LycaonDarkmoon 11-16-06, 11:22 AM	Look into the Injury, Class defense and Armor as DR rules in Unearthed Arcana. I'm using them in my campaign (also a low magic setting) they're great. They make combat much more realistic and gruesome without needing to completely overhaul the mechanics (and thus everything else in the game that uses those mechanics). These rules alone are worth the price of the book and should be part of the fundemental fabric of all D20 based games from now on! Warning though, they don't work that elegantly if you use all 3 together as written, you will need to tweak them a bit.