Wound Points again. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Wound Points again. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Prachett
11-09-04, 10:05 AM Alright, did a search couldn't exactly find what I was looking for. So... I like wound points, but my group has come up with this problem and I like to see how you all deal with it.

When reduced to 0 wounds points, a character (who makes his save) is disabled, but still concious.

1) Should the guy at least fall down? What do you all do?

When reduced to 0 wounds points, a character (who makes his save) takes MORE wound damage.

2) What do you all do? We said he immediately falls down and becomes 'dying' and has to save per rules DC 10 on his round to avoid becoming 'dead'. This then creates the problem that no matter how much damage you receive, 1 or 75 wound pts. (after being reduced to 0) the save is still DC 10 on the characters next round. Should the save be something like DC5+dmg dealt, save or 'die'?

Thanks for the input.
jagggar
11-09-04, 10:21 AM From SRD:
Disabled: A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn’t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the DM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character’s hit points, she is now in negative hit points and dying.
A disabled character with negative hit points recovers hit points naturally if she is being helped. Otherwise, each day she has a 10% chance to start recovering hit points naturally (starting with that day); otherwise, she loses 1 hit point. Once an unaided character starts recovering hit points naturally, she is no longer in danger of losing hit points (even if her current hit points are negative).

I'll have to check the rules for Wound Points when I get back to give you more info.
Prachett
11-09-04, 12:55 PM This is unearthed arcana variant btw.
jagggar
11-09-04, 02:35 PM Disabled: A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character is conscious, but can only may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn’t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the DM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) worsens the character's condition to dying (unlesss it involved healing; see below). deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character’s hit points, she is now in negative hit points and dying.
A disabled character with negative hit points recovers hit points naturally if she is being helped. Otherwise, each day she has a 10% chance to start recovering hit points naturally (starting with that day); otherwise, she loses 1 hit point. Once an unaided character starts recovering hit points naturally, she is no longer in danger of losing hit points (even if her current hit points are negative).
An unaided stable, conscious character at 0 wound points has a 10% chance to start recovering wound points naturally that day.
Once an unaided character starts recovering woulnd points naturally, he is no longer in danger of dying.

Bold is the the text in UA. Italics is stuff in UA but not in SRD. Regular stuff is not in UA.

I don't see why a disabled character should fall down. It's like being so worn out that if you do anything other than move slowly or something else that takes a lot of energy you're just going to collapse.

There's more than just becoming dead or not dead going on here. If they happen to roll less than 15, they're still in danger of dying and the saves get harder as time goes on (+1 per turn after first turn, so next round they need 11 to live and 16 to stablize, then 12 and 17. . .).
I'd say that making the DC 5+damage dealt could make some combat pretty leathal. 75+5 =DC 80 is not gunna be fun to make.
Prachett
11-09-04, 04:02 PM I don't see a character with 0 wounds points as being exhausted. I see him as taking enough wounds to send his system into shock. I suppose the analogy I'd be willing to make is a boxer who just got knocked down ala Rocky. Sure, he might get up, but he was at least knocked down.

My question still stands though... what happens when a character at 0 vitality and 0 wounds gets hit again? He can't go below 0 wound points. Is it just a DC15 save no matter how much damage is taken or how many times his hit?

A metagamer with a high Fort Save would then just run in, get reduced to 0, make his saves over and over again and take either a non-strenuous move or standard action each time. I'm I understanding that correctly?
jagggar
11-09-04, 04:29 PM I'd say if you think that will be a problem, go ahead and say any additional damage leads to the character's condition changing to dying.
Ranger REG
11-09-04, 08:51 PM Alright, did a search couldn't exactly find what I was looking for. So... I like wound points, but my group has come up with this problem and I like to see how you all deal with it.

When reduced to 0 wounds points, a character (who makes his save) is disabled, but still concious.

1) Should the guy at least fall down? What do you all do?
Actually, I use a variant of the VP/WP system. I added the negative hit points from the standard HP system (similar to Star Wars d20 Revised and AEG's Spycraft).

Sticking to UA rules, I do nothing, although the unfortunate victim not only suffer a disabled condition but also a fatigued condition as well. IOW, he is limited to one more or attack action per round, and suffer -2 to Str & Dex.

Alternatively, if that is not enough, you could replace fatigued with exhausted.

When reduced to 0 wounds points, a character (who makes his save) takes MORE wound damage.

2) What do you all do? We said he immediately falls down and becomes 'dying' and has to save per rules DC 10 on his round to avoid becoming 'dead'. This then creates the problem that no matter how much damage you receive, 1 or 75 wound pts. (after being reduced to 0) the save is still DC 10 on the characters next round. Should the save be something like DC5+dmg dealt, save or 'die'?

Thanks for the input.
Read it again. Only on the round he is dying, you make a Fort Save vs. DC 10. Each round thereafter you increase the DC by +1, cumulative. IOW, the second round of dying, the DC is 11, the third round is DC 12, and so forth.

Also note, that even if he does make a Save, he must beat the DC by a margin of 5 or more to become stable. Otherwise, his condition does not improve; he is still dying. If he failed his Save in the dying condition, he is dead.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Prachett 11-09-04, 10:05 AM	Alright, did a search couldn't exactly find what I was looking for. So... I like wound points, but my group has come up with this problem and I like to see how you all deal with it. When reduced to 0 wounds points, a character (who makes his save) is disabled, but still concious. 1) Should the guy at least fall down? What do you all do? When reduced to 0 wounds points, a character (who makes his save) takes MORE wound damage. 2) What do you all do? We said he immediately falls down and becomes 'dying' and has to save per rules DC 10 on his round to avoid becoming 'dead'. This then creates the problem that no matter how much damage you receive, 1 or 75 wound pts. (after being reduced to 0) the save is still DC 10 on the characters next round. Should the save be something like DC5+dmg dealt, save or 'die'? Thanks for the input.
jagggar 11-09-04, 10:21 AM	From SRD: Disabled: A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn’t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the DM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character’s hit points, she is now in negative hit points and dying. A disabled character with negative hit points recovers hit points naturally if she is being helped. Otherwise, each day she has a 10% chance to start recovering hit points naturally (starting with that day); otherwise, she loses 1 hit point. Once an unaided character starts recovering hit points naturally, she is no longer in danger of losing hit points (even if her current hit points are negative). I'll have to check the rules for Wound Points when I get back to give you more info.
Prachett 11-09-04, 12:55 PM	This is unearthed arcana variant btw.
jagggar 11-09-04, 02:35 PM	Disabled: A character with 0 hit points, or one who has negative hit points but has become stable and conscious, is disabled. A disabled character is conscious, but can only may take a single move action or standard action each round (but not both, nor can she take full-round actions). She moves at half speed. Taking move actions doesn’t risk further injury, but performing any standard action (or any other action the DM deems strenuous, including some free actions such as casting a quickened spell) worsens the character's condition to dying (unlesss it involved healing; see below). deals 1 point of damage after the completion of the act. Unless the action increased the disabled character’s hit points, she is now in negative hit points and dying. A disabled character with negative hit points recovers hit points naturally if she is being helped. Otherwise, each day she has a 10% chance to start recovering hit points naturally (starting with that day); otherwise, she loses 1 hit point. Once an unaided character starts recovering hit points naturally, she is no longer in danger of losing hit points (even if her current hit points are negative). An unaided stable, conscious character at 0 wound points has a 10% chance to start recovering wound points naturally that day. Once an unaided character starts recovering woulnd points naturally, he is no longer in danger of dying. Bold is the the text in UA. Italics is stuff in UA but not in SRD. Regular stuff is not in UA. I don't see why a disabled character should fall down. It's like being so worn out that if you do anything other than move slowly or something else that takes a lot of energy you're just going to collapse. There's more than just becoming dead or not dead going on here. If they happen to roll less than 15, they're still in danger of dying and the saves get harder as time goes on (+1 per turn after first turn, so next round they need 11 to live and 16 to stablize, then 12 and 17. . .). I'd say that making the DC 5+damage dealt could make some combat pretty leathal. 75+5 =DC 80 is not gunna be fun to make.
Prachett 11-09-04, 04:02 PM	I don't see a character with 0 wounds points as being exhausted. I see him as taking enough wounds to send his system into shock. I suppose the analogy I'd be willing to make is a boxer who just got knocked down ala Rocky. Sure, he might get up, but he was at least knocked down. My question still stands though... what happens when a character at 0 vitality and 0 wounds gets hit again? He can't go below 0 wound points. Is it just a DC15 save no matter how much damage is taken or how many times his hit? A metagamer with a high Fort Save would then just run in, get reduced to 0, make his saves over and over again and take either a non-strenuous move or standard action each time. I'm I understanding that correctly?
jagggar 11-09-04, 04:29 PM	I'd say if you think that will be a problem, go ahead and say any additional damage leads to the character's condition changing to dying.
Ranger REG 11-09-04, 08:51 PM	Alright, did a search couldn't exactly find what I was looking for. So... I like wound points, but my group has come up with this problem and I like to see how you all deal with it. When reduced to 0 wounds points, a character (who makes his save) is disabled, but still concious. 1) Should the guy at least fall down? What do you all do? Actually, I use a variant of the VP/WP system. I added the negative hit points from the standard HP system (similar to Star Wars d20 Revised and AEG's Spycraft). Sticking to UA rules, I do nothing, although the unfortunate victim not only suffer a disabled condition but also a fatigued condition as well. IOW, he is limited to one more or attack action per round, and suffer -2 to Str & Dex. Alternatively, if that is not enough, you could replace fatigued with exhausted. When reduced to 0 wounds points, a character (who makes his save) takes MORE wound damage. 2) What do you all do? We said he immediately falls down and becomes 'dying' and has to save per rules DC 10 on his round to avoid becoming 'dead'. This then creates the problem that no matter how much damage you receive, 1 or 75 wound pts. (after being reduced to 0) the save is still DC 10 on the characters next round. Should the save be something like DC5+dmg dealt, save or 'die'? Thanks for the input. Read it again. Only on the round he is dying, you make a Fort Save vs. DC 10. Each round thereafter you increase the DC by +1, cumulative. IOW, the second round of dying, the DC is 11, the third round is DC 12, and so forth. Also note, that even if he does make a Save, he must beat the DC by a margin of 5 or more to become stable. Otherwise, his condition does not improve; he is still dying. If he failed his Save in the dying condition, he is dead.