... on the nature of magical auras. [Archive] - Wizards Community

... on the nature of magical auras. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Androcus Divinicus
12-21-06, 03:39 PM One of my players plays a 12th level mage who has used permanency to make arcane sight a permanent ability of his character. This has caused me to have to ask questions about the nature of magical auras that I don't feel have hard answers. I've come up with some solutions on my own, but I wanted to pose a hypothetical or two to my fellow DMs to get some input.

How would you say someone under the effect of an invisibility or greater invisibility appears to someone who has the arcane sight ability in effect? Does the magic of the illusion settle on that character directly, thus allowing arcane sight to function as see invisibility in this situation? Does the illusion affect all of the light rays around the affected character so that having arcane sight allows a character to ascertain the general location of the invisible opponent but not pinpoint him exactly (hence basically making the invisible character concealed)? Or does the illusion affect the sensory organs/minds of each observing creature directly, effectively making the aura caused by the spell as invisible as the creature upon whom it is cast?

Also, as an extension to all of this, to what degree would you say that arcane sight interferes with his character's regular sight? For example, to an unaided eye, a character under the effect of invisibility is invisible, and a character under the effect of disguise self appears as he wishes to appear ... but to an observer with arcane sight would not both targets appear to be the emanation point of a weak illusion spell? ... functionally making the enhanced observer unable to discern whether his target is invisible or just altered?

Another question that would seem to be relevant to this discussion is what exactly does an illusion spell do? In the case of a displacement spell, do both the target's actual position and his apparent position register as emmanating illusion magic? One would think so ...

Obviously I want to be fair to my player as he's spent XP and game time to grant his character a cool ability. Personally, I've gone the concealment route ... that the invisible creature can be tracked to roughly the square(s) it occupies, but that it has total concealment. This allows him to use area affect spells and any manner of attack rolls, but prevents him from using spells like magic missle which are defeated by total cover or concealment.

Anyway, enough talk on my part ... what do all of you think?

Regards,
Justin.
Androcus Divinicus
12-21-06, 08:14 PM ... well, I realize it's kind of lame to bump one's own post after less than five hours of board time ... but 20+ views and no comments? Where are the D&D philosophers? Speak and be heard, oh great intellects!

:)

J.
Animae_Draconum
12-21-06, 08:58 PM I reference you here for the aura strength and duration tables...http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectMagic.htm

Arcane sight functions as detect magic but the auras will be visible. The aura of an invisible opponent will still be seen but due to the lingering effect of the aura you will not know the exact location until he/she moves then you would assume they were at the furthest point the aura trail moved to. As for knowing the spells running on each individual a separate spellcraft check is needed for aura seen. Your player will know a spell is running on the person but must identify it. The difference between invisibility and diguise self is that invisibility will make the player unable to be seen but the aura will be, disguise self will still involve a visible character, not just an aura.

Displacement creates an illusion and thus the aura will emmanate from the illusion and not the caster. If the caster has any other spell running then the player needs to make a spellcraft check to determine which visible version is real and which is the illusion.

A hidden character will look as though invisible if you cant pass the spot check(only if they posess a magical item or have a spell running), but they can only hide themselves not the auras of magical energy that emmanates from their pressence

Think of auras as transparent fields that will be visible for this person and will overlap what they modify without providing concealment. Your player can see that magic is present but will need to determine each spell if desired as a separate check

Hope this helps.

A_D
Mock26
12-21-06, 09:27 PM If you want to have some fun throw in the occasional magic aura that has no explanation. For example, imagine that a magic item was thrown into a river and for a hundred years it "tainted" the water downstream from it. Someone eventually found the magic item and removed it. However, the group stumbles upon a pool downstream and all the mud at the bottom of the pool now has a faint magic aura.

Or, the group is in a tomb and looks in an empty sarcophagus. What they don't know is that a magic item sat in the sarcophagus for about 6 centuries and the magical aura rubbed off on the stone, so that even today, 5 years later, it can faintly be seen.

Take care and have a great day....

ciao,
john.
Androcus Divinicus
12-21-06, 10:34 PM Thank you Animae Draconum and Mock for your input so far, your suggestions were both interesting.

If I may, I'd like to guide this conversation away from the direct text of the rules, unless someone can reference a rulebook or sourcebook for a description of what a magical aura actually looks like. I understand the intracacies of detect magic, and of arcane sight, but to me, the point at issue is what those auras look like.

Draconum, you say that auras are transparent for a character able to use arcane sight is it -- for lack of a better word -- "cannon" that magical auras are transparent or translucent, or is that just how you rule when you DM?

Now, I know that arcane sight requires a spellcraft check to determine the school that created the aura, but my player's character is getting a +25 to that check, so for the kinds of spells we're talking about here, it is safe to assume that he can correctly identify the school of magic involved. Also, if he can see an illusion aura but no person, I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination for a 12th level wizard to be able to realize that the illusion spell in question is some form of invisibility. That said ... if you're invisible, and I can't see you, but I can see the aura caused by the spell, do you have total concealment from my attacks?

Thanks,
Justin.
Mock26
12-21-06, 10:44 PM I don't know if they were carried over to 3.x, but in 2nd edition there was a monster that was created by the "leaking" of magic energy from magic items tossed into a stream. I think it was the Mudman monster, but I'm not sure.

As to what they look like, imagine, in the case of a human, a halo that covered the entire body and wasn't just a circle around the head. It would be like a soft glow that eminated from the body and was the same shape of the body. For non-living things it would take on the shape of the item.

I found this diagram on the internet that might give you some insight into what the aura looks like:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/aura.jpg
Androcus Divinicus
12-21-06, 11:20 PM Thank you, Mock. Using this visualization then, arcane sight would appear to function as see invisibility in this case, yes? It would provide a clear silhouette of the target with a fairly sharp contrast of where he ended and his aura began? Do you think allowing arcane sight to be used in this way is a fair interpretation of the rules?

J.
Mock26
12-21-06, 11:28 PM Thank you, Mock. Using this visualization then, arcane sight would appear to function as see invisibility in this case, yes? It would provide a clear silhouette of the target with a fairly sharp contrast of where he ended and his aura began? Do you think allowing arcane sight to be used in this way is a fair interpretation of the rules?

J.

Unfortunately, I cannot answer that question as I'm not all that familiar with the workings of these spells in the realm of 3.x Maybe others would have a better insight into whether or not an invisibility spell would also make aura's invisible.

Take care and have a great day....

ciao,
john.
Animae_Draconum
12-22-06, 12:35 AM I would have responded sooner, however I was at a movie.

Anyhow a suggestion occured to me after reading these most recent posts.

What if each school of magic had its own color for visible auras.

As far as a transparent emmanation you could not tell the exact location of the figure due to it just being a cloud of magical energy. You could rule that the point of origin has a slightly stronger aura and the residual trails fade in strangth. Keep in mind that even if you can see an aura it will emmanate a slight radius away from the subject. If this is the case then it will grant the viewer the ability to see that somthing is there and its general size, however due to it still beign invisible it would be immune to sneak attack damage(not being able to determinea vulnerable point) and should have an AC bonus or miss chance for partial concealment. If its functioning as a see invisibility too then I'd say its too powerful, it would be a true seeing-lite. If he wants see invisibility its gonna cost another 1k exp.
Mock26
12-22-06, 01:13 AM I would have responded sooner, however I was at a movie.

Anyhow a suggestion occured to me after reading these most recent posts.

What if each school of magic had its own color for visible auras.

As far as a transparent emmanation you could not tell the exact location of the figure due to it just being a cloud of magical energy. You could rule that the point of origin has a slightly stronger aura and the residual trails fade in strangth. Keep in mind that even if you can see an aura it will emmanate a slight radius away from the subject. If this is the case then it will grant the viewer the ability to see that somthing is there and its general size, however due to it still beign invisible it would be immune to sneak attack damage(not being able to determinea vulnerable point) and should have an AC bonus or miss chance for partial concealment. If its functioning as a see invisibility too then I'd say its too powerful, it would be a true seeing-lite. If he wants see invisibility its gonna cost another 1k exp.

I think the spell description for arcane sight says that if you concentrate on an aura you can tell what type of magic it is, be it divination, or evocation, or charm, or whatever. You'd have to read the description of the spell to be sure, though.

Take care and have a great day....

ciao,
john.
Changling_Bob
12-22-06, 04:13 AM http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/aura.jpg
For someone who was invisible, the silhouette would not be there, so you would see the aura through the invisible person, making it appear as just a blob of colour. Well, thats how I would rule that anyway.

Also, I was in a play-by-post recently (that didn't get very far unfortunately) playing as a warlock. When I went into the first tavern we came to, I decided I would use detect magic just to get a feel of the place, and the DM gave me a description of all the auras in the place as blobs of colour basically. Not that I had any ranks in spellcraft, but thats what you get for being a small girl who doesn't care to much about the long term :)
Penchant_Conjurer
12-22-06, 04:32 AM Auras do not cast light, and Invisibility masks everything that a character wears and is holding within his square. That means it masks the aura as well. Hidden characters are usually hiding behind things and in shadows where light cannot illuminate the aura you are trying to see (auras produce no light), so it does not show off hiding people. The aura picture that Mock26 has would be for a very powerful spellcaster (perhaps in the overwheming range), but most auras would be more like a little colored outline around the magical object or person, like a cartoon.
Mock26
12-22-06, 02:38 PM I would just like to clarify that the picture I posted of an aura is NOT meant to represent an invisible person. It just happened to be the best picture I could find on a google search that depicted an actual aura. Nor is it supposed to represent any particular level of power. The original poster asked for an example of what one would look like, and I thought that picture would give a good general idea. Again, it was not meant to represent anything in particular.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Androcus Divinicus 12-21-06, 03:39 PM	One of my players plays a 12th level mage who has used permanency to make arcane sight a permanent ability of his character. This has caused me to have to ask questions about the nature of magical auras that I don't feel have hard answers. I've come up with some solutions on my own, but I wanted to pose a hypothetical or two to my fellow DMs to get some input. How would you say someone under the effect of an invisibility or greater invisibility appears to someone who has the arcane sight ability in effect? Does the magic of the illusion settle on that character directly, thus allowing arcane sight to function as see invisibility in this situation? Does the illusion affect all of the light rays around the affected character so that having arcane sight allows a character to ascertain the general location of the invisible opponent but not pinpoint him exactly (hence basically making the invisible character concealed)? Or does the illusion affect the sensory organs/minds of each observing creature directly, effectively making the aura caused by the spell as invisible as the creature upon whom it is cast? Also, as an extension to all of this, to what degree would you say that arcane sight interferes with his character's regular sight? For example, to an unaided eye, a character under the effect of invisibility is invisible, and a character under the effect of disguise self appears as he wishes to appear ... but to an observer with arcane sight would not both targets appear to be the emanation point of a weak illusion spell? ... functionally making the enhanced observer unable to discern whether his target is invisible or just altered? Another question that would seem to be relevant to this discussion is what exactly does an illusion spell do? In the case of a displacement spell, do both the target's actual position and his apparent position register as emmanating illusion magic? One would think so ... Obviously I want to be fair to my player as he's spent XP and game time to grant his character a cool ability. Personally, I've gone the concealment route ... that the invisible creature can be tracked to roughly the square(s) it occupies, but that it has total concealment. This allows him to use area affect spells and any manner of attack rolls, but prevents him from using spells like magic missle which are defeated by total cover or concealment. Anyway, enough talk on my part ... what do all of you think? Regards, Justin.
Androcus Divinicus 12-21-06, 08:14 PM	... well, I realize it's kind of lame to bump one's own post after less than five hours of board time ... but 20+ views and no comments? Where are the D&D philosophers? Speak and be heard, oh great intellects! :) J.
Animae_Draconum 12-21-06, 08:58 PM	I reference you here for the aura strength and duration tables...http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/detectMagic.htm Arcane sight functions as detect magic but the auras will be visible. The aura of an invisible opponent will still be seen but due to the lingering effect of the aura you will not know the exact location until he/she moves then you would assume they were at the furthest point the aura trail moved to. As for knowing the spells running on each individual a separate spellcraft check is needed for aura seen. Your player will know a spell is running on the person but must identify it. The difference between invisibility and diguise self is that invisibility will make the player unable to be seen but the aura will be, disguise self will still involve a visible character, not just an aura. Displacement creates an illusion and thus the aura will emmanate from the illusion and not the caster. If the caster has any other spell running then the player needs to make a spellcraft check to determine which visible version is real and which is the illusion. A hidden character will look as though invisible if you cant pass the spot check(only if they posess a magical item or have a spell running), but they can only hide themselves not the auras of magical energy that emmanates from their pressence Think of auras as transparent fields that will be visible for this person and will overlap what they modify without providing concealment. Your player can see that magic is present but will need to determine each spell if desired as a separate check Hope this helps. A_D
Mock26 12-21-06, 09:27 PM	If you want to have some fun throw in the occasional magic aura that has no explanation. For example, imagine that a magic item was thrown into a river and for a hundred years it "tainted" the water downstream from it. Someone eventually found the magic item and removed it. However, the group stumbles upon a pool downstream and all the mud at the bottom of the pool now has a faint magic aura. Or, the group is in a tomb and looks in an empty sarcophagus. What they don't know is that a magic item sat in the sarcophagus for about 6 centuries and the magical aura rubbed off on the stone, so that even today, 5 years later, it can faintly be seen. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Androcus Divinicus 12-21-06, 10:34 PM	Thank you Animae Draconum and Mock for your input so far, your suggestions were both interesting. If I may, I'd like to guide this conversation away from the direct text of the rules, unless someone can reference a rulebook or sourcebook for a description of what a magical aura actually looks like. I understand the intracacies of detect magic, and of arcane sight, but to me, the point at issue is what those auras look like. Draconum, you say that auras are transparent for a character able to use arcane sight is it -- for lack of a better word -- "cannon" that magical auras are transparent or translucent, or is that just how you rule when you DM? Now, I know that arcane sight requires a spellcraft check to determine the school that created the aura, but my player's character is getting a +25 to that check, so for the kinds of spells we're talking about here, it is safe to assume that he can correctly identify the school of magic involved. Also, if he can see an illusion aura but no person, I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination for a 12th level wizard to be able to realize that the illusion spell in question is some form of invisibility. That said ... if you're invisible, and I can't see you, but I can see the aura caused by the spell, do you have total concealment from my attacks? Thanks, Justin.
Mock26 12-21-06, 10:44 PM	I don't know if they were carried over to 3.x, but in 2nd edition there was a monster that was created by the "leaking" of magic energy from magic items tossed into a stream. I think it was the Mudman monster, but I'm not sure. As to what they look like, imagine, in the case of a human, a halo that covered the entire body and wasn't just a circle around the head. It would be like a soft glow that eminated from the body and was the same shape of the body. For non-living things it would take on the shape of the item. I found this diagram on the internet that might give you some insight into what the aura looks like: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/aura.jpg
Androcus Divinicus 12-21-06, 11:20 PM	Thank you, Mock. Using this visualization then, arcane sight would appear to function as see invisibility in this case, yes? It would provide a clear silhouette of the target with a fairly sharp contrast of where he ended and his aura began? Do you think allowing arcane sight to be used in this way is a fair interpretation of the rules? J.
Mock26 12-21-06, 11:28 PM	Thank you, Mock. Using this visualization then, arcane sight would appear to function as see invisibility in this case, yes? It would provide a clear silhouette of the target with a fairly sharp contrast of where he ended and his aura began? Do you think allowing arcane sight to be used in this way is a fair interpretation of the rules? J. Unfortunately, I cannot answer that question as I'm not all that familiar with the workings of these spells in the realm of 3.x Maybe others would have a better insight into whether or not an invisibility spell would also make aura's invisible. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Animae_Draconum 12-22-06, 12:35 AM	I would have responded sooner, however I was at a movie. Anyhow a suggestion occured to me after reading these most recent posts. What if each school of magic had its own color for visible auras. As far as a transparent emmanation you could not tell the exact location of the figure due to it just being a cloud of magical energy. You could rule that the point of origin has a slightly stronger aura and the residual trails fade in strangth. Keep in mind that even if you can see an aura it will emmanate a slight radius away from the subject. If this is the case then it will grant the viewer the ability to see that somthing is there and its general size, however due to it still beign invisible it would be immune to sneak attack damage(not being able to determinea vulnerable point) and should have an AC bonus or miss chance for partial concealment. If its functioning as a see invisibility too then I'd say its too powerful, it would be a true seeing-lite. If he wants see invisibility its gonna cost another 1k exp.
Mock26 12-22-06, 01:13 AM	I would have responded sooner, however I was at a movie. Anyhow a suggestion occured to me after reading these most recent posts. What if each school of magic had its own color for visible auras. As far as a transparent emmanation you could not tell the exact location of the figure due to it just being a cloud of magical energy. You could rule that the point of origin has a slightly stronger aura and the residual trails fade in strangth. Keep in mind that even if you can see an aura it will emmanate a slight radius away from the subject. If this is the case then it will grant the viewer the ability to see that somthing is there and its general size, however due to it still beign invisible it would be immune to sneak attack damage(not being able to determinea vulnerable point) and should have an AC bonus or miss chance for partial concealment. If its functioning as a see invisibility too then I'd say its too powerful, it would be a true seeing-lite. If he wants see invisibility its gonna cost another 1k exp. I think the spell description for arcane sight says that if you concentrate on an aura you can tell what type of magic it is, be it divination, or evocation, or charm, or whatever. You'd have to read the description of the spell to be sure, though. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Changling_Bob 12-22-06, 04:13 AM	http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26/aura.jpg For someone who was invisible, the silhouette would not be there, so you would see the aura through the invisible person, making it appear as just a blob of colour. Well, thats how I would rule that anyway. Also, I was in a play-by-post recently (that didn't get very far unfortunately) playing as a warlock. When I went into the first tavern we came to, I decided I would use detect magic just to get a feel of the place, and the DM gave me a description of all the auras in the place as blobs of colour basically. Not that I had any ranks in spellcraft, but thats what you get for being a small girl who doesn't care to much about the long term :)
Penchant_Conjurer 12-22-06, 04:32 AM	Auras do not cast light, and Invisibility masks everything that a character wears and is holding within his square. That means it masks the aura as well. Hidden characters are usually hiding behind things and in shadows where light cannot illuminate the aura you are trying to see (auras produce no light), so it does not show off hiding people. The aura picture that Mock26 has would be for a very powerful spellcaster (perhaps in the overwheming range), but most auras would be more like a little colored outline around the magical object or person, like a cartoon.
Mock26 12-22-06, 02:38 PM	I would just like to clarify that the picture I posted of an aura is NOT meant to represent an invisible person. It just happened to be the best picture I could find on a google search that depicted an actual aura. Nor is it supposed to represent any particular level of power. The original poster asked for an example of what one would look like, and I thought that picture would give a good general idea. Again, it was not meant to represent anything in particular.