Post/Author/DateTime	Post
theprince 12-09-04, 08:25 AM	Ok fellow DM's... I need some help with a couple of things. I am desperate. 1. How can I develop good NPC's? My players never like any of them and don't want to travel with them. 2. How can I interest my players to adventure for something else other than treasure? ...and most importantly... 3. All my adventures seem to go something like this, SOMETHING HAPPENS -> KILL BAD GUYS -> GET TREASURE The players seem to like it but it's boring for me, any advice how I can start up and continue a long-running quest? An epic adventure? Something completely different? The background on my players is (fighter, archer, cleric) they just got to the capital city and there's lots of excitement because the coliseum is about to open. They're all low level.
mastroyo 12-09-04, 10:08 AM	1. NPC's don't have to travel with the PCs. Unless you play with only 2 PCs, the party should be able to balance itself. And you should make consistent encounters. If your problem is developing good NPCs, you should google for a while and you'll find thousands. What I do, however, is that I create NPCs looking at actual people. How about a fascistic BBEG. Or a bard like the foreigner form 'That 70's show'... or an old woman like YOUR GRANDMA. I'll bet that shoud be a good NPC... 2. Yoyu have to create another motivation for the PCs. Are they only thiefs and trasure-hunters? If so, screw them with tresure once, by having it stolen...or having the PCs get it, and THEN steal it. Then they'll have a different motivation, screw the BBEG. If not, make a deity send a message to one of the players, make them suffer inmense loss (killing a family memeber, burning home town, looking for lost father kidnapped by a BBEG...) There is too much to make up here, and if they want treasure only, well, make up other issues more important than MONEY... 3. Invert the order of things. Just in that simple ecuation. Find the Treasure, Something Happens, Kill the bad guys just seem to work a little different. And always add more variables, as long as you find yourself comfortable with you DMing, you'll be able to be less predictable. For a long campaign you'll need a story that last a long time, has little to do with the players, but they can influence it (if you want a 1-20th level campaingn, that seems too much for me).. A foe, a land, a war perhaps, an aristocrat, a trader, a monster, an item... Just by thinking on one of these you can think of something inmense to build on. And, if you cant, browse these forums and you'll find a los of campaign ideas.
evangelion1010 12-09-04, 10:22 AM	They could enter into a 3v3 gladiator tournament, where multiple things could happen...there is a prize for the winner and... 1. They lose in a fight due to an obviously unfair ruling, and they're only 2 away from getting the prize. 2. While the tournaments are going on (assume they span multiple days, think 300 fighters, some in groups, others single fighting, etc., preliminarys are one day, 2nd round are another, finals are the third day...) and the PCs are doing well. The day before the final, one of the groups rival to the PCs gets murdered/poisoned... 3. They do well/win the gladatorial combat and are given a quest by the king/leader of the city 4. SImliar to 2 and 3, they win, and are given dinner with the leader when he gets poisoned, or the house they are in comes under attack from a few stealthy rogues looking to rob and make a killing. If the PCs are able to drive them off, they are held in high regard by the entire town, always welcome there, recieve discounts, etc. If they fail, it is assumed they did it, and they must prove otherwise, or escape from jail and be hunted. On developing notable characters... one group that might stick out is a group of people that act tough and constantly prevoke the characters, but refuse to fight, because they have no real power. Very annoying personality type, see how the PCs respond to it.
Erix d'Pheer 12-09-04, 11:03 AM	As for creating good NPC's... when it comes to recurring, important NPC's, well, I really can't help you, but if you're able to create compelling PC's the same should be true for this sort of NPC. However, when it comes to all the everyday people your party meets, a little description goes a long way. All it takes is one or two distinguishing characteristics to make an NPC seem like a real person, and there's even a table for random traits in the DMG. The other thing every NPC needs is a name. Okay, not every single person needs a name, but don't skirt the issue if it makes sense that the players would know an NPC's name. This is as important as distinguishing features. An NPC doesn't necessarily need both, but any even mildly important NPC (which is pretty much any NPC the players might meet more than once) needs to seem like a real person.
Draco Strang 12-09-04, 11:16 AM	Always give your NPCs something that distinguishes them from the rank and file. For example, don't make all of your clerics wear full plate and carry maces, or all of your mages humans with beards and robes. Try something different, like a half-orc with maxed out ranks in move silently and hide, who can speak 20 languages and blend in with society, or the halfling gladiator champion that wields a spiked chain, or hell, even a gnomish bartender that uses his spell-like abilities to goof with the drunks at his tavern. It's all about setting them apart, I swear. Go ahead and google for some NPCs, or even search these boards for interesting character builds people have posted, take those, and flesh them out with a personality. That'll get you on the right track. As for linear adventures where all you do is kill monsters and take treasure? Try doing an urban campaign with lots of skill-related problems, instead of straight combat. Hell, even make combat more interesting with things like high ground, fortifications, unusual weapons, or monsters with wierd spell-like abilities. (Make sure the party has a prayer of handling them though)
HeirophantX 12-09-04, 11:40 AM	Dude, There's a Cleric in the party, that's a plot-hook by itself. What does his deity (or what does he think his deity ) want him to do? Does he report to a temple or order or something? Crusade anyone? The other guys will probably go along for the loot. So their in the big city? Are they "rural" characters? They've acquired treasure in the past... maybe not they have to answer to the local thieve's guild for 1) taking the treasure and ruining their plan to redistribute said treasure; or b) they haven't paid protection money and now they find their loot confiscated and in exchange for their meager lives they get to do mob favors. NPC's? Do you actually watch movies? So what if your players have seen the movies.. in some cases that makes your job easier.. you can say "he looks like that guy, you know, Harvey Keitel as a pimp, like in Taxi Driver." Now they have the image, they have some context so the dialogue will come more naturally. You're in the city, have npc's talk like New Yorkers, you're out in farm country have people talk like Southerners. Sure maybe it's cheesy, but if it helps to flesh out your npc's then do it. Also, something that I do in my games... I have players (or I when I'm a player) tell the GM what they think something looks like. So players are helping create the scene, they have a better "feel" for it and after a while they'll get used to this arrangement and will do nearly as much creative work as you.. first the setting and then they'll be fleshing out npc's as well. Now, letting PC's determine scenery has some "metagaming" aspects, but who cares? If the scene goes well and a PC forwards the story with a convenient bar stool that you hadn't specifically reckoned on, *shrugs* reward him for cleverness and good role-playing. Additionally, by changing the dynamic of experience rewards to "participating in the story" from kill/loot could go miles getting your players interested in other things. X
Alovar 12-09-04, 03:05 PM	I gave an NPC for my group once who hated to be with them too, but was forced too for some reason. After a lot of bad feelings between the PCs and the NPC, an actual roleplaying started, and the PCs turned up to be good friends with the NPC in the end. Another options is an NPC who wants some specific goal concerniong the PCs...perhaps even befriending them in order to kill the later (although if your party's low-level then it's not a good idea), or befirending them in order to get them involved for some guild, such as a local spy organization or thieves' guild. My party also used to like treasure beyond anyhting else. However, after I placed a certain vicious villain who tortured one of the PCs and attempted to assassinate the others, etc, they started hunting the villain down while she fled across the kingdom, it was really good for a change after the "get rich" campaign part.
Dash Branaghan 12-09-04, 03:15 PM	There are also plot hooks that thrust the PCs into them without their necessarily looking for it. My favorite that I have used with success in the past is having the PCs walking along when they hear a cry for help from the alley. If they are good, they will probably investigate, which leads to the trap. If they are indifferent, spring the trap in another fashion. They ignore the call of help, so when the trap is sprung, chastise them for their callousness through the NPC. Now, the trap is fairly simple. It is a case of mistaken identity, object placement, whatever, but the PCs are accused of crossing a rather powerful Rogue/Assassin guild. There is a bounty on their heads now. They happen to be found by a thug group who thinks they can take them (but actually can't) and the PCs escape, either through killing the thugs or through subduing them, PC's choice. There is a letter on the thug implicating the PCs for the crime, which can either be found when they loot the bodies, or the thug will reveal. If the thugs are subdued, they eventually get free and can resume hunting the party. Increase levels for next run in. In the interim, the PCs now have to find out who did what to get them in trouble. Alternatively, they can also try to bring down the Assassin/Thieves guild as well. Voila...instant adventure, and the PCs aren't doing it for treasure, they're doing it for survival. Feel free to throw in a stint in a slave camp as well...always a good motivation. Disclaimer: This may not work with your grabasses, but it worked with mine. Dash
tqm111 12-09-04, 03:22 PM	Instead of treasure, have an NPC married to the mayor's daughter. That'll give you two or three sessions of non combat. (Especially if you make everything, every little smartass comment, in game.) When I did that, my cleric player offered (in jest) to give the sermon. I accepted, and he wrote a sermon for the wedding ceremony.
theprince 12-09-04, 03:35 PM	Thanks for some of the suggestions guys