Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ralvuimego 03-31-06, 12:29 AM	Alright, I have a trap in mind some time down the line for my party, in which the group enters a room who'se walls are studded with spheres, roughly 100 in total, which each cast mage hand simlutaniously on any person stepping on a panel, and proceed to bang that character against the floor and walls. The description of Mage Hand clearly states that the item being manipulated must be unattended, but I must ask... Does a creature attend itself?
Some_call_me_Tim 03-31-06, 12:34 AM	Mage hand works on objects. PCs are generally not objects but rather creatures. Consider forceful hand instead. However since, its a trap you can pretty much do what ever you please. Reverse gravity is also a hoot.
ShadowDragon8685 03-31-06, 12:34 AM	Creatures are an invalid target for mage hand, since it specifies objects, and creatures are not objects. That said, should it ever come up... Yes, creatures attend themselves.
Lord Ian Stark 03-31-06, 12:37 AM	Mage Hand Transmutation Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0 Components: V, S Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target: One nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb. Duration: Concentration Saving Throw: None Spell Resistance: No You point your finger at an object and can lift it and move it at will from a distance. As a move action, you can propel the object as far as 15 feet in any direction, though the spell ends if the distance between you and the object ever exceeds the spell’s range. I guess the weight could stack, but I'm not sure of the unattended weight part. Maybe a different spell for the trap.
KnaveofClubs 03-31-06, 12:39 AM	Also mage hand can only move 5lbs about 15ft. Not good for much (thus it beign a cantrip) but can be really useful in that right situation. Ever thought of using it to take those keys off the guard's desk while he sleeps...
Ralvuimego 03-31-06, 12:48 AM	Also mage hand can only move 5lbs about 15ft. Not good for much (thus it beign a cantrip) but can be really useful in that right situation. Ever thought of using it to take those keys off the guard's desk while he sleeps... Yes, but it was never stated if mage hand stacked or not, and it makes a little sense if you think about what the spell is supposed to be doing. Theoretically, could you not move massive objects by lining up hundreds of first level wizards?
KnaveofClubs 03-31-06, 01:17 AM	Best thing to do if your not sure, just play it as a DM. Make up or alter a spell for that specific trap if you can't find anything else to fit. No one complains about the DM bending the rules. Only for breaking the rules, fudging rolls, and railroading.
MinusInnocence 03-31-06, 02:26 AM	Yes, but it was never stated if mage hand stacked or not, and it makes a little sense if you think about what the spell is supposed to be doing. Theoretically, could you not move massive objects by lining up hundreds of first level wizards?Every action is resolved separately. This is a necessary evil of the way rounds work in D&D (or any turn-based game, for that matter) but it also means that each of these individual wizards would cast Mage Hand and all of them would fail, as the object in question weighs over 5lbs no matter how many times you cast it. Anyway, I think the trap would work much better if the OP just used Telekinesis. When using the "Violent Thrust" option, the subject is entitled to a Will save and if it fails, takes 1d6 damage. Alternatively, you could design a spell that magnetizes two objects within the area of effect; in this case, a randomly chosen wall (or ceiling) and each party member. Every round the characters stay in the area, they are randomly hurled either toward the ceiling, a wall or one another. Hilarity ensues.
Varia 03-31-06, 08:41 AM	Well, there are a hundred of them- if you cant lift the character and bounce him off the walls and cieling then maybe you can just grope him to death? Or at least make him so.... happy.... that he just leaves the dungeon for a smoke... :P *Hugs* Varia
StormKnight 03-31-06, 01:09 PM	Every action is resolved separately. This is a necessary evil of the way rounds work in D&D (or any turn-based game, for that matter) So two characters cannot possibly lift up a heavy object together and carry it, since they would need to take their move actions at seperate times and therefore could not move in coordination? Luckily, its also a roleplaying games with an arbiter and rational players. Therefore its completely possible to do logical things even if they don't fit into a turn based game construct. Heck, outside of combat there's not even a need to worry about rounds. Inside combat, the character going first readies an action to "move in unison with character Y". For Mage Hand, you could say its a mystical thing and it just doesn't work on anything too big. Or you could say its just a force and would combine. This sounds perfectly reasonable. I might require DEX checks to coordinate well enough. Its probably more efficient to perform a task some other way than by using lots of Mage Hands to do it though.
bitnine 03-31-06, 01:15 PM	So two characters cannot possibly lift up a heavy object together and carry it, since they would need to take their move actions at seperate times and therefore could not move in coordination?Actually, in that case I would think that one would use the aid another action.
Frugal 03-31-06, 01:55 PM	So two characters cannot possibly lift up a heavy object together and carry it, since they would need to take their move actions at seperate times and therefore could not move in coordination? Out of combat you're fine since you don't use rounds or turn sequence outside of combat. As has been mentioned, in combat it would make use of aid another.