Post/Author/DateTime	Post
saankiip 01-11-05, 07:59 AM	10 Reasons NOT to buy Complete Adventurer 10. New rules to confuse you further. Is there any real reason to add Immediate Action and Swift Action into the game? Does D&D really need to be any more complicated? 9. Classes. Are Spell-Thief, Ninja or Scout really "core" classes? The first two have PrC written all over them, the latter is easily covered by core classes already. 8. Skirmish. Special Abilities that make little or no sense. Why would an Archer get extra damage just because he moves greater than 10 feet in a round!? 7. Unbalancing and silly Feats. A feat that lets you use your Int Mod for Reflex saves? Are they serious? 6. Feats that are too specific. How many Monk/Rangers do you come across? This seems to fly in the face of what Wizards originally intended: access to feats for most characters irrespective of class. 5. Other stupid feats that are totally unrealistic (even for D&D). One word: Goad. 4. New weapons that lack imagination and add no real value. Barbed Dagger: critical threat is increased. Wow. 3. Unrealistic Alchemical Substances. Ointment that sharpens your vision? WTF? 2. Alchemical Capsules Are they kidding? Strap it to your teeth and as a swift action swallow a potion. Want one on your weapon? No worries... we have that covered too. So good everyone will want to do it? Then why don't they? 1. Spells that use the new rules. Why do some spells use a swift action and others a standard action? Why Swift Invisibility? Why not just use Invisibility? They are the same level spell. SaanKiip
Chelle 01-11-05, 08:56 AM	Every now and again its refreshing to go with the flow... 1. At 192 pages, this is a good, thick book. Multi-class it as a paper-weight or a desk-chock. 2. There are some great pictures on pages 7, 17, 23, 35, 55, 87, 128, 143 and 146. At around AU$50, this is a picture-book to brag about... 3. Pesky rules keeping you from achieving something unbalancing? Are you a powergamer looking for something else to protect? Get your copy now! 4. Timely, if it hadn't come out this month... I might have paid $50 off my credit card instead. Rest assured, next month is already spent on Races of the Wild. (phew) 5. When your imagination is dry... and you've been staring at a blank character sheet since September last year - this is the book for you! Whacky skill and feat options your GM will faint at (no, not feint) and your team-mates will turn green over... just think of the rift you'll create at the table! Oi. :eek: I'll try for a more optimistic review after I've slept on it. Maybe I'll tell you some more about the jaw-dropping Vigilante picture and the cool-looking Animal Lord prestige class, but for now... goodnight. Chelle -------------------- No signature is the best signature.
Reinforcements 01-11-05, 09:07 AM	Let's see how well I can do, considering I don't own the book yet... 10. Swift and immediate actions are not new. They have been around at least since the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Neither are they terribly complicated. 7. I'm assuming this feat let's you use your Int modifier instead of your Dex modifier for Reflex saves. What, exactly, is unbalancing about that? 4. Wow. A new weapon that's not terribly exciting. How awful. 1. Spells that use the new rules. That's horrifying. I did always hate feather fall. Curse you, Wizards!
rusdrake77 01-11-05, 09:38 AM	10. Swift and immediate actions are not new. - They are new. Nobody bought that stupid psionic book. And I don't want to get all this crap in normal book. 7. I'm assuming this feat let's you use your Int modifier instead of your Dex modifier for Reflex saves. What, exactly, is unbalancing about that? - They are unbalancing! It means +5 to Ref for all wizards for free. I want another feat, which uses Int for Fort save to achieve a complete balance. 4. Wow. A new weapon that's not terribly exciting. How awful. You are right - another stupid weapon. 1. Spells that use the new rules. That's horrifying. I did always hate feather fall. Curse you, Wizards! Today 04:56 PM" Yes, we already have psionics, great! Another new? Really? How many bugs/errors? Only 2 hundreds? Only 3 hundreds? 4? 5?
TheRedRobedWizard 01-11-05, 10:06 AM	Oh, I'm sorry. Do all the words confuse you? "Oh nos. I don know how to use these actions. Maybe I should learn to read." Its not that hard to grasp here, people. Does everyone hate options so much? Reasons to buy Complete Adventurer. 1) To spite all the people too who can't take 10 minutes to learn new rules. 2) For the cool full page art of the Shadowbane guys. Tis a sweet piece. 3) Speaking of Shadowbane, their PrCs are very cool. 4) The Vigilante PrC is very nice. 5) Your DM probably won't allow you to use it, because most DMs I see are like the guys above me that hated Psionics and anything that requires them to actually read a book to understand the rules contained within. It'll spite your DM. 6) Failing anything else, the chapter about the organizations is very cool. 7) Looks way nicer on your shelf than Song and Silence, as its hardcover. 8) If you really don't like it that much, DON'T BE SUCH A RABID FANBOI. Just don't buy it. Just because Wizards puts something out doesn't mean you HAVE to buy it. Remember, as DM you have final say what comes into your game. If you don't like the ComAdv stuff, Don't let it in. See how easy that is? Swift and Immediate actions: You could learn how to use them in the time it took you to read this post. Suck it up and learn some rules besides how to swing a dang sword. -TRRW
MadApplejack 01-11-05, 10:11 AM	5. Other stupid feats that are totally unrealistic (even for D&D). One word: Goad. SaanKiip Actually, this has been missing for some time now, imo, though I think a skill check a la bluffing to feint or intimidating to demoralize would have been more appropriate.
Edymnion 01-11-05, 10:20 AM	7. Unbalancing and silly Feats. A feat that lets you use your Int Mod for Reflex saves? Are they serious?Don't forget the feat that lets you use your Dex mod to Search and Disable Traps instead of your Int mod. Heaven forbid you actually have a spread in your abilities, instead of just tying EVERYTHING to your one prime stat. Yeah, lets make feats that tie your other saves to Int, the wizards aren't powerful enough as written anyway. Really, for a Wizard, why take Great Fortitude or Lightning Reflexes when you could just take that for an even greater bonus? No wizard is EVER going to have less than a 16 Int unless they are just intentionally trying to handicap themselves, and a good portion of them could likely have an 18 Int at first level. Its called Power Creep. To get people to buy the new books, they make stuff in it *slightly* more powerful than what came before. Just enough to make you sit up and go "Hey, thats cool!". And of course, everybody complains that things are underpowered when something thats in line with the original Core Rules gets printed, so thats just more incentive to make more overpowered junk...
Milak 01-11-05, 10:32 AM	Actually there are quite a bit of people that bought the Expanded Psionics book and love it. 1. Swift and Immediate actions are not new, they are easy to use. Most people don't know what they are because they are rarely used with spells and powers, now they are printed elsewhere so they can be found more easily.
Kalanth 01-11-05, 10:34 AM	Ahhhh, so refreashing to see. A new book hits the shelfs, and all the people that like it are off reading it and enjoying it. Then there are the people that take personal offense to any and all material held within its pages, and jump right on the boards and complain till blue in the face. Good to see things don't ever change around here.
icingdeath44 01-11-05, 10:39 AM	Is it juts me or can anyone else not say spell thief without adding munchkin magnet to the ebnd of it. The entire class has no real basis flavorwise. the only PRC in there that is ok is the chameleon, i've waited for a while for barbed daggers but, they should just have a keen effect and if you get a natural 20 they cause a wounding effect. maybe this was intentional :shifty:, they produced a book for munchkins and they collect all us non powergamers for next months races of the wild.
Kyy'Dakh 01-11-05, 10:44 AM	I haven't gotten my copy of CV yet, but it's on its way. But here's some thoughts of mine on this topic, heavy on sarcasm: 10) New rules Quick and dirty translation of swift and immediate actions: Swift action: A free action you can use only during your turn. Immediate action: A free action you can use outside your turn. See? That wasn't so hard. 9) New classes Celestia forbid that a book gives players new options. If you don't like them ignore them, and tell your players you aren't allowing them. 8) Skirmish No comment as yet. Don't know enough yet. 7) One example of a broken feat So, one broken feat means you should deny yourself the good stuff in the book. 6) Feats designed specifically for multiclass characters, and not for absolutely anyone Celestia also forbid that a feat require class features. 5) Goad No comment as yet. 4) Barbed Dagger Wow. New weapons that aren't all that great. That's a good reason to boycott a book. 3) Unusual alchemical substances Wow. Those are unrealistic in a world where people fling fireballs just by mumbling and crossing their fingers. 2) Alchemical capsules No comment as yet. 1) Swift action spells See above quick and dirty translation. But I imagine there's no reason why someone would want to cast a spell AND act in the same turn. That's absolutely crazy. Why don't we just kill Quicken Spell while we're at it?
Telperion 01-11-05, 10:44 AM	1) To spite all the people too who can't take 10 minutes to learn new rules. Not to mention it brings the series to a close, as I understand it. I already have all the three previous books, so might as well get this one. I haven't seen that many rules in the Complete books so far, so it probably won't bother me... 4) The Vigilante PrC is very nice. A 3.5 update for my ancient Relics and Rituals Vigilant PrC? Sound good to me :). I seem to recall hearing that the book has other prestige classes that are also very similar to the stuff that was printed to the Scarred Lands gameline. No complaints here, especially since Scarred Lands has been dis-continued. 5) Your DM probably won't allow you to use it, because most DMs I see are like the guys above me that hated Psionics and anything that requires them to actually read a book to understand the rules contained within. It'll spite your DM. I actually liked the XPH. It was far more interesting than most of the other supplements I have seen in the past year and the rules for Swift and Immediate actions are simple enough, if you can understand the concept of Free Actions. 6) Failing anything else, the chapter about the organizations is very cool. I already have loads of organizations from other sources, but some new ones to scavenge for fresh ideas are always welcome. 7) Looks way nicer on your shelf than Song and Silence, as its hardcover. On the other hand splat books are easier to carry around in large quantities and they don't weight as much. On the other hand having a pair of hard covers to protect the pages is nice.
Darklord Greywolff 01-11-05, 10:47 AM	*sniff* *sniff* I think I smell a troll. So what sets this book apart from other books by how bad it is. They all have a broken feat or 2 and dear lord not another mediocre weapon the horror oh god no the horror. :rolleyes:
Krelios 01-11-05, 10:51 AM	Swift and Immediate actions have been in the other Complete books as well... Do some reading.
PoeticJustice 01-11-05, 10:59 AM	10 Reasons NOT to buy Complete Adventurer 10. New rules to confuse you further. Is there any real reason to add Immediate Action and Swift Action into the game? Does D&D really need to be any more complicated? SaanKiip 9. Classes. Are Spell-Thief, Ninja or Scout really "core" classes? The first two have PrC written all over them, the latter is easily covered by core classes already. 8. Skirmish. Special Abilities that make little or no sense. Why would an Archer get extra damage just because he moves greater than 10 feet in a round!? 7. Unbalancing and silly Feats. A feat that lets you use your Int Mod for Reflex saves? Are they serious? 6. Feats that are too specific. How many Monk/Rangers do you come across? This seems to fly in the face of what Wizards originally intended: access to feats for most characters irrespective of class. 5. Other stupid feats that are totally unrealistic (even for D&D). One word: Goad. 4. New weapons that lack imagination and add no real value. Barbed Dagger: critical threat is increased. Wow. 3. Unrealistic Alchemical Substances. Ointment that sharpens your vision? WTF? 2. Alchemical Capsules Are they kidding? Strap it to your teeth and as a swift action swallow a potion. Want one on your weapon? No worries... we have that covered too. So good everyone will want to do it? Then why don't they? 1. Spells that use the new rules. Why do some spells use a swift action and others a standard action? Why Swift Invisibility? Why not just use Invisibility? They are the same level spell. 10-Yes. If feather fall can be cast uber-quick it opens the door for a lot of other spells to function in the same manner. 9- They're making character concepts easier to put down on paper. Everybody either is or knows somebody that wants to play ninja. Some People find the Generic rogue boring. Now those people have options. 8- By that logic you'd get no benefit for charging either. A change in trajectory, a shot of adrenaline from constantly moving around the field of battle, and a host of other reasons satisfy this ability. 7- This is one of the few feats I can think of that many wizards would want to actually take. It is a little unbalencing, but just because they get a little bumb in their save doesn't change the fact that their Ref save still improves at a snail's pace. 6- The whole point of te Ascetic and devoted feats is to open up new multiclass possibilities. It's unrealisitc, just unusual. 5-I take it you've never tried to attract attention of a particular monster by shouting profanity? Or tried to get someone's attentionby doing the same? Or think that any of those methods would be wholly ineffective at all times? 4- I would think a rogue would jump at any opportunity to deal more damage, even if they need to burn a feat to do it. 'Sides, the barbed dagger looks darn cool/ 3-You believe there is NO POSSIBLE WAY simply consuming a liquid would alter a person's perceptions? I supose eyedrops and Saline solution and steriods are completely beyond the realm of possibility 2- They will. It's a lot better than carrying a bottle of silversheen. 1-Why? Because it's immediate. Not better, just different.
sandgriffin 01-11-05, 11:05 AM	o0o0o0o flaming was the book really so bad that people have to shout it from the rooftops? simply ignoring the book wasnt enough? this is either trolling or true unbridled hatred the latter i really fail to see
crazysamaritan 01-11-05, 11:08 AM	I failed my save for stupidity and read this thread....
Rancorpit 01-11-05, 11:36 AM	ONE REASON NOT TO BUY COMPLETE ADVENTURER 1. If you know that you and your DM can't deal with the new rules, spells, feats and/or classes or you are just generally ignorant, just let it be and go play Icewind Dale II or whatever.
ezze88 01-11-05, 11:42 AM	I am not going to criticize or defend this new book, since i dont have it. but i have some things i want to say and I will give you people my two cents. First of all, every book has its stupid things, and rules we dont understand, if you try hard to understand it, you will in the end, or post here and ask us, your fellow DMs for help! Second, as other people alredy said if you dont like the classes just dont use them, and dont allow them in your games, just by not liking the three new classes doesnt mean you shouldnt like the book! Third, The people that made this book worked hard on making it, how would you like if you had written a 200 page essay, due the next day, you really worked to do it right, your hand is numb from writing it and your teacher, or even your principal came, spat on it, tore it to pieces and told you "YOU SUCK!". show some respect for them! Fourth, For that reflex feat you dont like it does make sense in a way, since its true that you have to be dexterous to avoid it, but you also have to be aware that something is coming hard and fast to hit you! Fifth, A new weapon that you dont like, there are many weapons that you may not like, as i said before, if you dont like it dont use it (YOUR THE DM!!!) Sixth, Thank God that you can be fast enough to do stuff (swift and immediate action) those ations can save your character's life!!! If you bought the book and didnt like it, just return it and get your money back, keep your mouth shut and dont say anything not nice. MY two cents ezze88
Lord_Anthrax 01-11-05, 12:24 PM	10 Reasons NOT to buy Complete Adventurer More like "10 Reasons I'm A Troll". 10. New rules to confuse you further. Is there any real reason to add Immediate Action and Swift Action into the game? Does D&D really need to be any more complicated? THAC0. And BTW, those actions were introduced in the Miniatures Handbook. 9. Classes. Are Spell-Thief, Ninja or Scout really "core" classes? The first two have PrC written all over them, the latter is easily covered by core classes already. They are now, Bunky. Spell-Thieves have a mystic talent for taking control of other people's magical abilities. Ninjas are specially-trained, similar to Monks(I suppose they're not "core" in your game, eh?) And Scouts have been needed for a while now, a stealthy outdoors type that's not as combat-heavy as a Ranger. 8. Skirmish. Special Abilities that make little or no sense. Why would an Archer get extra damage just because he moves greater than 10 feet in a round!? Precision-based damage based on greater mobility that allows the individual to target more vulnerable areas than they would standing still and attacking. The movement throws the target off. Get that? Or were there too many big words for you? 7. Unbalancing and silly Feats. A feat that lets you use your Int Mod for Reflex saves? Are they serious? As a heart attack, and surely not your Troll. What about Weapon Finesse? I suppose it's silly and unbalancing that someone with a high Dexterity can use a weapon well, and not that Butterfingers the Fighter with an 18 STR and a 3 DEX can? 6. Feats that are too specific. How many Monk/Rangers do you come across? This seems to fly in the face of what Wizards originally intended: access to feats for most characters irrespective of class. Oh, no! It doesn't give a bennie for everyone! I suppose we should get rid of Weapon Specialization and Heighten Spell, too? 5. Other stupid feats that are totally unrealistic (even for D&D). One word: Goad. Why's that unrealistic? You're using it right now. 4. New weapons that lack imagination and add no real value. Barbed Dagger: critical threat is increased. Wow. Much like your posts? Princely summation there, Homer. How about "Sword: Thingie hurts you." ? 3. Unrealistic Alchemical Substances. Ointment that sharpens your vision? WTF? Magic that blows stuff up??? WTF!?!?! 2. Alchemical Capsules Are they kidding? Strap it to your teeth and as a swift action swallow a potion. Want one on your weapon? No worries... we have that covered too. So good everyone will want to do it? Then why don't they? Duh, brightster. They don't have the money, or they think it'll get wasted if they get a swift kick inna teeth(which you could use a couple dozen of, BTW). 1. Spells that use the new rules. Why do some spells use a swift action and others a standard action? Why Swift Invisibility? Why not just use Invisibility? They are the same level spell. SaanKiip Oh, gee, I dunno. So they could TURN INVISIBLE AND ATTACK SOMEONE IN THE SAME ROUND? I give you a 1 on the Troll-O-Meter.
Reinforcements 01-11-05, 01:06 PM	Gar! Ninja'd by Lord Anthrax. I knew I was forgetting a book. 10. Swift and immediate actions are not new. - They are new. Nobody bought that stupid psionic book. And I don't want to get all this crap in normal book. 7. I'm assuming this feat let's you use your Int modifier instead of your Dex modifier for Reflex saves. What, exactly, is unbalancing about that? - They are unbalancing! It means +5 to Ref for all wizards for free. I want another feat, which uses Int for Fort save to achieve a complete balance. 4. Wow. A new weapon that's not terribly exciting. How awful. You are right - another stupid weapon. 1. Spells that use the new rules. That's horrifying. I did always hate feather fall. Curse you, Wizards! Today 04:56 PM" Yes, we already have psionics, great! Another new? Really? How many bugs/errors? Only 2 hundreds? Only 3 hundreds? 4? 5? 10. Once again, no, they're not. Swift actions have existed since the Miniature's Handbook. And again again, what are you complaining about? A swift action is a free action - but you may only make one swift action per round. Is that really so complicated? 7. Okay, upon further consideration this feat might be a little bit unbalanced. The problem is really that is does the same thing as Lightning Reflexes, but better for certain classes. Although frankly, I don't know that I'd take this as a wizard anyway. 4. My point with the previous sarcastic comment is that that this weapon probably took up about two lines of text and one line in a table. Unless there's a two-page spread about the barbed dagger, it's hardly a significant drain on the book's quality. 1. Okay, now you'll have to help me here, because I have no idea what the hell you're saying. My point was that feather fall is an example of a spell that's always been around that uses a non-typical action to cast (an action that was defined as an immediate action in CA). If you can't think of a reason why it's nice to cast spells faster than a standard action, you need to think harder. You, rusdrake77, responded with what I think is an almost completely unintelligable dig at psionics. Assuming I'm right, this really isn't the place for such a debate, so I suggest you head over to the psionics forum and make your thoughts known there. I'm sure Bacris and BlaineTog will enjoy ripping you to shreds.
Gereli 01-11-05, 01:39 PM	o0o0o0o flaming was the book really so bad that people have to shout it from the rooftops? simply ignoring the book wasnt enough? this is either trolling or true unbridled hatred the latter i really fail to see Actually, I'm glad this thread exists. I was planning to perhaps get this book. Now I know that there are a number of (good IMO) reasons why I might not want to. I was, of course, planning to look it over in the store before I bought it... but such an examination is, by its nature, cursory, and I might miss something (or multiple things) that would otherwise dissuade me from plunking down my $30. I have to say that, if the material in this book is as outlandish and munchkin-oriented as it sounds, it makes me sad. I am a staunch opponent of those who restrict themselves to the three core books because they are unable to control their players... but every time a supplement comes out that rewards powergaming over roleplaying, it makes their position just a little bit more credible. :rolleyes: Anyway, that's all for now.
PaladinSix 01-11-05, 01:40 PM	The people that made this book worked hard on making it, how would you like if you had written a 200 page essay, due the next day, you really worked to do it right, your hand is numb from writing it and your teacher, or even your principal came, spat on it, tore it to pieces and told you "YOU SUCK!". show some respect for them! Your teacher didn't charge you $50 for the privilege of writing an essay. If this book had been written in one day, I would say that it wasn't too shabby, but thats not the case, is it? In fact, they've been hyping this thing for months, and writing it for a lot longer than that. In the end, all of us who don't care for the "Complete" series, or any of the other recent publications like the "Races of...." series, are just going to have to accept the fact the WotC isn't going to publish the sort of stuff we would like to see. The honchos at Wizards have learned the lesson of TSR only too well. They know the market is much larger for players than it is for DMs. Why take the trouble to produce stuff that perhaps 20% of your market might buy, when, with or less effort, you can produce stuff that the other 80% will salivate over. TSR ignored that fact of business too long, and it cost them.
sandgriffin 01-11-05, 01:42 PM	man this is good stuff! Where's my popcorn? trolling and counter trolling, is this how your game sessions are? what-say we just let this thread die in flames eh?
Shalamar 01-11-05, 01:46 PM	I for one liked the book. Some of it is odd, but its nice to have. The new core classes don't do anything for me, but I really liked some of the new PRC's, and feats. They seem really quite flavourful, and since I'll be playing in an Eberron campaign soon, several of the prc's look like they were tailor made for it (Shadowbane Inquisitor, and Shadowbane Stalker are good examples). For the most part its personal preference. Some people will look at the book and say 'Its Crap!', Others will look at it and say 'Its Great!', I look at it and say 'Its good. Not great. Not bad. Just good, with some nice flavourful stuff within it.' Just because someone doesn't agree with you on whether the book is great or crap, doesn't mean they're wrong. It just doesn't have what they are looking for. Me? I'll use it. And enjoy using it.
Dash Branaghan 01-11-05, 02:05 PM	:thinks: I don't know what I like more...the book or this thread. Both are pretty damn entertaining. :cheer: Dash
Board_Rider 01-11-05, 02:16 PM	:thinks: I don't know what I like more...the book or this thread. Both are pretty damn entertaining. :cheer: Dash I see what you mean. Except..I don't own the book...so I guess I don't see that far. As for the whole pros/cons well I would say just take a gander and see if it is good for the game. I bought Frostburn and don't particularly like it and am still planning on getting Libris Mortis. To be honest, I think that all DM's need to define just how much stuff they want to allow at their table. To me, all of these books coming out every month is kind of material overload....but for some it's great.
Dash Branaghan 01-11-05, 02:34 PM	and am still planning on getting Libris Mortis. What, you still don't have it? Are you trying to suggest to me that you chose FOOD over D&D supplements? For shame. :P Dash
Defcon4 01-11-05, 02:37 PM	Third, The people that made this book worked hard on making it, how would you like if you had written a 200 page essay, due the next day, you really worked to do it right, your hand is numb from writing it and your teacher, or even your principal came, spat on it, tore it to pieces and told you "YOU SUCK!". show some respect for them! If you bought the book and didnt like it, just return it and get your money back, keep your mouth shut and dont say anything not nice. I haven't ought the book. Wasn't quite sure if i wanted to but i have to say....this comment boggles my mind. This kind of attitude is why crap gets made and/or accepted in every medium imaginable. It's called criticism, and it's a good thing. From art, film, literature, all the way to sports and video games, criticism is needed to not only pressure people to do quality work but to insure, we, the consumer doesn't get fed crap and abused for our money. We support this industry. People who are not satisfied have the right to be heard. Those who disagree, have the right to make their opinions known and rebutt. Do not try to silence people by spouting such alarming attitudes as "stay quiet, don't criticise"....wow. Unlike a book i may have bought, i can't get back my time from viewing such crap like Street fighter, Warriors of virtue, Dungeons & Dragons, etc. I don't give a tossed dwarf how much time and money were spent on those wastes of celluloid. And even if it is material you can return, maybe, just maybe, the subject matter is something you care about. D&D is obviously something we all care about and want to see good things from. So hows about getting into a discourse with those who you may not agree with and not try to silence them and turn this board into one big yawn inducing back clapping fest? A friend of mine has it. I'll get his opinions on the critiques i've heard before i make my decision.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 01-11-05, 02:48 PM	1) Sorry but I missed the book you came out with this month? What was it called again? 2) Grow up...if you don't like it, don't buy it, and if it is really that bad, you can sell it to me for 10 bucks. 3) Are you seriously postal or something? I mean come on, just because you don't have a feat that allows you to put your -2 Int mod to your Fort save doesn't mean you gotta be a jerk. 4) I haven't read the book through and through but I think that the new core-classes fit in pretty good. I mean you don't have to use them, but I plan on havin' some ninjas in my group. Personally I think that the Swashbuckler is crappy, but I let one of my PCs play one, mainly because he came up with a new storey line. 5) Maybe the weapon thing is crappie...but don't go knockin' it. I noticed that WotC has become hypocritical with the weapons thing (in the PHB or DMG it says, why make new wpns when blah blah blah, and then their is like 101 new weapons now, but I'm not complaining as my 4th lv Bard in Xcrawl is weilding a Fullblade (muwahahahahaha)).
Cold Napalm 01-11-05, 03:44 PM	swift spells unless they changed it in CV lasts one round. So while swift invis has great applications for combat, it's not so good for getting away.
olshanski_home 01-11-05, 04:02 PM	If you bought the book and didnt like it, just return it and get your money back, keep your mouth shut and dont say anything not nice. ezze88 Please ignore this comment. I appreciate reading criticism. It is a lot of effort to return a book if I don't like it, especially if I had to travel 20 or more miles to purchase the book, or if I ordered the book on-line and had it delivered. Speaking up with criticism serves 2 purposes: 1) it saves other people from accidentally purchasing something that might not live up to the marketing. 2) it helps the publishers improve the quality of thier work or learn where thier sales can improve. If nobody bought a book, but nobody said what was wrong with it, it would be very hard to pinpoint how to improve. A good bit of criticism helps seperate the literature from the turds.
saankiip 01-11-05, 04:35 PM	I don't know why I have to defend myself or my posts, but it seems like we live in a (web) society that doesn't take well to criticism or to... what do they call it?... oh yeah, free speech. I wrote this post originally in response to Wizard's 10 Reasons to Buy Complete Adventurer (which I thought was pretty obvious from the title). There are some good things about this book, but seeing as how they have already be spoken about (by Wizards and on these boards) I thought I would give 10 reasons why I didn't like it. God forbid!!! :eek: I guess I could of fleshed out my original post out a little more, but I would say I would of gotten the same result. One thing I want to pick up on is the feat Goad... it is unrealistic not because of what you do (using it), but because of the target's reactions: he can only attack you via melee, OR do anything else!!! If he was really that ****** at you he would just attack you. Don't you think? It's making restrictions that are TOTALLY unrealistic for the sake of balancing - something Wizards is doing more and more of. Well, hope you have enjoyed yourselves with this post. And maybe learned something too. :D SaanKiip
Didge 01-11-05, 04:41 PM	I see what you mean. Except..I don't own the book...so I guess I don't see that far. -Board Rider Hmm...Sounds to me Board that you need some of that ointment for improving your vision that they say can be found in this book. ;) As a side note, for any who care, ointment can do whatever you want when its magical, because, well it's magical. I have to put eyedrops in twice a day for the rest of my life (in order to see) and they contain hydrochloric acid. Now it doesn't make sense to me (not a chemistry minded person) but it allows me to see better, and it isn't even magical. As for the rest, opinions are like...oh right Code of conduct, best not finish that. Seriously, spend the time to look over something before you buy it. Remember, "Caveat Emptor" and you'll know better.
Cyricist 01-11-05, 05:03 PM	Ah.. glad to see that Wizards is picking up another great old TSR tradition: printing the same stuff sixhundred times in different guises.. While the above book is good.. The Dungeon Master Guide 2 (yes, DMG 2!) is going to be THA BOMB... You shell out on another book of stuff you could have thought up yourself! The joy! Go ahead.. consume it.. consume like you never consumed before.. buy buy buy.. must have.. don't create.. buy... I mean really guys,, what a worthless topic to waste a thread on. Either buy it or don't buy it...
astute1 01-11-05, 05:29 PM	I don't know why I have to defend myself or my posts, but it seems like we live in a (web) society that doesn't take well to criticism or to... what do they call it?... oh yeah, free speech. That's because you don't have free speech on the web. You're posting on WotC's boards, which are hosted on their servers. You made an agreement when you signed up to obey their rules. You don't like it - get your own server and host your own boards. Then you can write whatever you want. On that note, I think it's pretty nice that WotC even lets you show up on their boards and diss their products. I know if I hosted message boards I'd boot anyone who tried that crap - or at least delete their post and warn them of the consequences of continuing. I wouldn't let you use my message boards as a personal springboard to hurt my profits, that's for sure. Lastly, while my copy of CV hasn't arrived yet, I'm sure that it's going to be fairly good. The other "complete" books have been some of the best items that WotC has produced for D&D, and this one looks like it is in the same vein. I've seen people complain of "Power Creep" - but I doubt that's the case. If you make a book with more feats and options, then people are going to find ways to combine those feats and options to make a powerful character. Thus, any sourcebook you create is contributing to "power creep." If they didn't make new sourcebooks, people would complain, but when they do, people still complain.
enailis 01-11-05, 05:34 PM	I don't know why I have to defend myself or my posts, but it seems like we live in a (web) society that doesn't take well to criticism or to... what do they call it?... oh yeah, free speech. Free speech, Eh? It seems you are the one with the problem agiast free speech. If you didn't want people to reply you should writen this on a web site. If you want people to stop flaming you like you were a oil soaked newspaper than you'd better add to your organal post. What, you still don't have it? Are you trying to suggest to me that you chose FOOD over D&D supplements? For shame. Dash They're not the same thing :eek:
Riznar 01-11-05, 05:41 PM	Ah.. glad to see that Wizards is picking up another great old TSR tradition: printing the same stuff sixhundred times in different guises.. While the above book is good.. The Dungeon Master Guide 2 (yes, DMG 2!) is going to be THA BOMB... You shell out on another book of stuff you could have thought up yourself! The joy! Go ahead.. consume it.. consume like you never consumed before.. buy buy buy.. must have.. don't create.. buy... I mean really guys,, what a worthless topic to waste a thread on. Either buy it or don't buy it... Why must this arguement always come up? People have lives, jobs, and significant others. The DMG2 is specifically for these people who don't have time to write their own source material. As for reprinting old things, there was an edition change, people are going to want their favorite PrC updated. And I love the complaint about reprinting the same stuff over and over in a thread with complaints about new and weird stuff. I personally hate WotC for using both black ink and colored ink in the same book.
Magnus029 01-11-05, 06:03 PM	What, you still don't have it? Are you trying to suggest to me that you chose FOOD over D&D supplements? For shame. :P Dash Guess he went name brand on the noodles....
saankiip 01-11-05, 11:40 PM	That's because you don't have free speech on the web. Isn't that what the web is for? Freedom of information? Free Speech? You made an agreement when you signed up to obey their rules. Show me where I broke the rules? On that note, I think it's pretty nice that WotC even lets you show up on their boards and diss their products. I know if I hosted message boards I'd boot anyone who tried that crap - or at least delete their post and warn them of the consequences of continuing. And we are all glad you don't. SaanKiip
Dash Branaghan 01-12-05, 02:04 AM	*checks his watch to see how much longer before this thread is shut down* Guys, it is really simple, and has been mentioned before. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I was able to peruse it at the book store before I decided to buy it...as Didge pointed out, Caveat Emptor. There are some good things about this book, but seeing as how they have already be spoken about (by Wizards and on these boards) I thought I would give 10 reasons why I didn't like it. And while I respect the opinions of other DMs, and yours is no different in this instance despite the fact that we disagree, I think your title is more inflammatory than your intent. While you wanted to offer criticism and point out some of the things that are seemingly ridiculous (a turn of phrase that, as pointed out by others, is extremely loaded when we deal with a world of magic), your thread title didn't come across like that. Just my opinion, of course. Like all books, they have their highs and lows. I think if you had merely posted a list of things in the book that DMs should be aware of before, oh, say, ordering online where they don't have the option to look it over first, your thread would have been better received. I'm going to close this out with a reminder of the CoC. Unlike Didge, I'm going to have as much subtlety as shooting someone in the face...with a shovel. Everyone is entitled to express their opinions (the free speech you vaunted), as long as it is in accord with the CoC (which is a limit, and much needed in this place, on your freedom of speech). That means no personal attacks. I'm sure WizO Cheat will show up at some point and either lock this thread or give a warning to the participants. But for all of those who want to continue this endless debate of whether the CV is good, bad or ugly, share your opinions, but respectfully. Dash
egeborg 01-12-05, 04:32 AM	Another book gets published. Another gamer gets confused. Another gamer is happy. Another buck earnt for a publisher who will keep publishing books as long as it sells. Another roleplaying game about to become rpg-maniac-only-friendly. Another topic. Buy or don't buy - your call.
Razoreface 01-12-05, 05:14 AM	Woo for the CoC. Threads like this need to exist. This thread not existing for Complete Warrior meant I had to do a second 45 minute drive to take it back. There aren't any decent gaming stores nearby. :) I looked at CW in the store, it looked pretty good, I'd heard a lot of good things about it, there were a lot of things in it that looked interesting, so I got it. It lasted two sessions, because on the second session, someone showed up with a character that was built pretty much exclusively with CW content that so overshadowed everyone else, the character was killed. So it went back... there are very few RPG products I've ever returned, and it's only been as a result of massive abuse from a player that a product would be returned so that the entire group would know that the book was no longer being used as a resource, even if they still had pdfs. As much stuff in it as there is interesting, there's also is a lot of stuff in it that's noteworthy to point out as having a possible negative effect on your game; There is clearly visible power creep. Older splatbooks had it, it's natural for it to exist, but if you look at the creep in the 3.0 class books and the 3.5 Complete books.. there's a big difference. There are some feats that stand out as being excessive. I know that every wizard I've ever seen would be getting a lot more than +5 to their reflex out of that feat.. and they would take it. There are some things that really seem out of place in what is essentially midevil settings. Saline and steroids aren't dark ages medicine (and neither of those would improve proper vision anyway). It's like creep vs pounce. This might be not at all negative for your group. There are things in it a lot of people won't agree with.. new core classes is a big one. Core classes has been a fundamental in D&D for a long time, and nearly all the new classes in the Complete books were once prestige classes. Some people think they should have stayed there. And smart people don't try to hide criticism of their things. WotC doesn't either.. they know that what Defcon said is true. Criticism is important. And you can email nearly all of the WotC writers and ask them about things in the books, talk to them about things you think are screwed up or overpowered.. they'll answer. Without screaming. Also, that was definitely a ripper list from Chelle.
ThoughtfulOwl 01-12-05, 08:15 AM	I don't know why I have to defend myself or my posts, but it seems like we live in a (web) society that doesn't take well to criticism or to... what do they call it?... oh yeah, free speech. On the contrary: thought-out criticism is usually well taken on these boards; in fact, some of the best and most valuable threads around here are based on it. The problem is, as Dash pointed above, that your opening post doesn't fit the bill. Half of your points amounted to "this is stoopid", while the other half was an "I have issues with those, but I'm not going to explain why". Not to mention that your post comes out as picking some small, supposedly bad pieces (which any book has) and passing them off as representatives of the book as a whole. This is the Internet. We don't know you; we don't share your assumptions, your biases, your mindset or your preferences, unlike a tight group of friends; we don't have an implicit trust that what you say is backed up by a good reason. Certainly many of us are bound to have different opinions. If you don't qualify your objections with a solid explanation, they come out as whining and flaming, regardless of your intent. Next time you want to criticise a product, you should think about making a more fleshed out post; it will be worth it. One last point, about freedom of speech: CoC aside, freedom of speech doesn't remove responsibility; in fact it reinforces it. You can certainly voice your opinion, but it is up to you to voice it in a sensible, constructive manner.
Mystic Theurge 01-12-05, 08:36 AM	- They are unbalancing! It means +5 to Ref for all wizards for free. I want another feat, which uses Int for Fort save to achieve a complete balance. How is it "for free?" The only difference between that feat and Lightning Reflexes is that it's scaleable with your character's INT. I can imagine a boatload of other feats I want for my wizard, so unless the DM is going to give me this one for free, I don't see how it's unbalancing. This looks like yet another "panic attack" to me.
Jarlaxle_The_Rogue 01-12-05, 10:32 AM	The most important thing to remember when voicing criticism is to do it respectfully, reread your post before you post it, make sure you say it so that it wont offend anyone - or atleast offend very few people, chances are SOMEONE is going to be offended somewhere. You'd be surprised how far a little respect can go.
LordofIllusions 01-12-05, 10:55 AM	Ok, we have the people that are giving reasons "not" to buy the book, and then on the other hand, we have people that are giving reasons "to" buy the book. And on top of all of this, the two are insulting each other in order to back up their own opinions. Welcome to the WoTC boards ladies and gentlemen! How about we let people read the book for themselves and decide "for themselves" how good it is/or how good it isn't ? Know this... A player that wants to check out/read about a few new things(without whining, or pouting when he/she do not get to use said things) is not committing a crime. Unless of course he/she then commits him/herself to whining about utilizing said new thing(s), and whining profusely while attacking any DM that does not support the whiney gamer mentality. Then he/she should be shot(Sarcasm). Also, A DM that does not want to allow every WoTC book, class, PrC, weapon, etc that comes out into his/her campaign is not ignorant(or any other term you are laying down here simply because YOUR DM has told you NO a few times). If you actually believe that others not letting you have your way equals said person being "ignorant", you have some growing up to do. New books are "optional"... Main Entry: op·tion·al Pronunciation: 'äp-shn&l, -sh&-n&l Function: adjective : involving an option : not compulsory - op·tion·al·i·ty /"äp-sh&-'na-l&-tE/ noun - op·tion·al·ly adverb The DM does not have to allow them. ~~~
Bane 01-12-05, 01:59 PM	First of all, I haven't seen CV yet due to shipping problems between Wizards and my FLGS, so anything I say regarding the book may be incorrect. Because of this, I'm not going to talk about the book. Instead, I'm going to talk about how I'm glad that Wizards cares enough about making money that they take the time to create new books with new material. They even care enough to make sure that this book was perused by editors, at least as far as I've heard. Complete Divine was a dissapointment to be sure in this department, but as poor editing hasn't come up in this thread yet, I can only assume that it isn't an issue. As such, I would like to thank Wizards for taking the time to do this the right way. I would even go so far as to say that I consider the money I spend on D&D to be money well spent. Despite this, I do not buy every supplement Wizards puts out, just because they don't fit my campaign. This includes Frostburn, the XPH, and anything from Eberron or Forgotten Realms. I believe that I may buy those books in the future if I start a new campaign where I feel that I need them, but for now, I don't use frozen climates, psionic characters, or campaign settings other than Greyhawk. I appreciate what Wizards has done, especially since I have neither the time or the inclination to come up with an entirely original system. Now that I'm done praising Wizards, I would like to take a moment to address some of the concerns that have racked up in this thread. Problem: Immediate and Swift actions are new, thus they are bad. Response: By my count, this is the 5th book that has featured Swift and Immediate actions. Granted, some people don't play with psionics, and some people don't use the Miniatures Handbook in a regular D&D campaign, but that still leaves Complete Arcane and Races of Destiny. It is the DM's job to be familiar with the rules they allow, and to understand other rules before making the decision whether or not to allow them. Therefore, either you are not the DM, and this isn't your problem, or, you are the DM, and you would rather complain about your job than do it correctly. Problem: Wizards is creating Feats that are exclusive to certain classes. Response: Wizards has been doing this the entire time. Or do you want your fighter to have spell mastery? On the flip side, you might very well want your Barbarian to have Weapon Specialization, but the designers decided that that would be bad, probably because making some feats widely accessible would render certain classes or feats obsolete. Problem: Wizards is creating new weapons. Response: If the new weapons are too good, then tell your players that the necessary knowledge/specialized tool required to create this weapon is not possessed by the local weaponsmiths. If the new weapons are not good enough, then your players won't take them, and that's what I like to call a self-correcting problem. Please, let me know if I've missed anything.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 01-12-05, 02:08 PM	Oh, I'm sorry. Do all the words confuse you? "Oh nos. I don know how to use these actions. Maybe I should learn to read." 5) Your DM probably won't allow you to use it, because most DMs I see are like the guys above me that hated Psionics and anything that requires them to actually read a book to understand the rules contained within. It'll spite your DM. The reason his simple: I want to play a game, not earn a post-graduate in optional rules. Knowing how to read doesn't mean having the time to study ALL of the most obscure rules. Isn't 3.5 correct as it is (NO, this is NOT a true question. It's a rethorical one, as I've seen what this kind of question sparks... the dreaded edition war!!! )? The words are not confusing, they are not needed. Most DM I know happen to have a life outside of DMing, and therefore do not have the time (nor need) to read every tidbit of rules published. More options are good. Too much rules to go with these options is NOT good. But again, most DM I know prefer to focus on STORY, nor RULES.
crazysamaritan 01-12-05, 02:13 PM	the only thing I'd have to say about Swift vs immediate is that I treat them as new rules clarifying free actions. Since certain free actions can be taken while it's not your turn, some only on your turn, and some can only be taken once. Swift is a free action that you can take once on your turn. You cannot take another swift action in the same round. Quicken spells or spell like abilities are both swift actions. Immediate actions take no time, and can be taken outside of your turn. You can take as many immediate actions as you wish. Talking is an immediate action. Free actions occur during your turn, and you can take as many as you wish. Drawing a weapon with the Quick-draw feat is a free action. Swift = fast, but still takes time Immediate = response to other actions, takes no time Free = takes little to no time, but must be on your own initiative.
The Shaman 01-12-05, 02:21 PM	I was able to peruse it at the book store before I decided to buy it...as Didge pointed out, Caveat Emptor. I agree - let the buyer eat caviar! power creep (sometimes cap): an unpopular min/maxing player; also, the aforementioned min/maxer's character. Usage: "Eveything was fine until the Power Creep showed up with his drow evoker/Red Wizard." A final thought: as power levels grow, the margin for GM error narrows. So until next time, be good to each other.
Bort333 01-12-05, 02:21 PM	Swift Action were in the Miniatures Handbook first...
crazysamaritan 01-12-05, 02:27 PM	Umm, no... Power Creep is when spells and feats become more powerful then they origionally were. For example, a feat that gives +2 to three skills would be a demonstration of power creep.
Thoronmir 01-12-05, 02:50 PM	The most important thing to remember when voicing criticism is to do it respectfully, reread your post before you post it, make sure you say it so that it wont offend anyone - or at least offend very few people, chances are SOMEONE is going to be offended somewhere. You'd be surprised how far a little respect can go.Amen.Also, A DM that does not want to allow every WoTC book, class, PrC, weapon, etc that comes out into his/her campaign is not ignorant (or any other term you are laying down here simply because YOUR DM has told you NO a few times). If you actually believe that others not letting you have your way equals said person being "ignorant", you have some growing up to do. New books are "optional"... The DM does not have to allow them.Exactly. No one gets to decide for me what rules I’ll allow in my game … not even WoTC.The reason his simple: I want to play a game, not earn a post-graduate in optional rules. Knowing how to read doesn't mean having the time to study ALL of the most obscure rules. Isn't 3.5 correct as it is (NO, this is NOT a true question. It's a rhetorical one, as I've seen what this kind of question sparks... the dreaded edition war!!! )? The words are not confusing, they are not needed. Most DM I know happen to have a life outside of DMing, and therefore do not have the time (nor need) to read every tidbit of rules published. More options are good. Too much rules to go with these options is NOT good. But again, most DM I know prefer to focus on STORY, nor RULES.This is my group’s basis for rejecting all but Core material. We decided long ago that the Core books contain plenty of material to inspire our imaginations. None of us wants to buy or study volumes of new rules just because they’re new.Swift is a free action that you can take once on your turn. You cannot take another swift action in the same round. Quicken spells or spell like abilities are both swift actions. Immediate actions take no time, and can be taken outside of your turn. You can take as many immediate actions as you wish. Talking is an immediate action. Free actions occur during your turn, and you can take as many as you wish. Drawing a weapon with the Quick-draw feat is a free action. Swift = fast, but still takes time Immediate = response to other actions, takes no time Free = takes little to no time, but must be on your own initiative.This post was immensely helpful since I’d never heard the terms “Swift Action” or “Immediate Action” before reading this thread. But Crazy Sam’s explanation makes a lot of sense and reinforces how we’ve house-ruled such issues. It sounds like we instinctively got it right.Power Creep is when spells and feats become more powerful than they originally were. For example, a feat that gives +2 to three skills would be a demonstration of power creep.Correct. The term refers to an incremental increase in the overall “power” of the RAW. Another example is the change in Skill Focus from granting +2 in 3.0 to +3 in 3.5. Each separate instance may seem insignificant, but every such rule change increases the overall “power” of the RAW. Some of us are more comfortable with the game at its “base” power level. It’s not that we don’t understand the new rules. We understand them just fine … and we choose not to use them.
ThoughtfulOwl 01-12-05, 03:15 PM	Immediate actions take no time, and can be taken outside of your turn. You can take as many immediate actions as you wish. Just one nitpick for the sake of accuracy: they take time; an immediate action counts as your swift action for the round (or the upcoming round, if you use it out of turn). This is the only rule change from the Feather Fall basis, otherwise swift and immediate actions are just formal names for what in the core rules is limited to casting a quickened spell and casting Feather Fall. :cool:
The Shaman 01-12-05, 05:48 PM	Umm, no... Power Creep is when spells and feats become more powerful then they origionally were. For example, a feat that gives +2 to three skills would be a demonstration of power creep. :doh: Well, I guess the writing staff at The Daily Show won't be returning my calls after all. (Translation: crazysamaritan, it was a pun. A play-on-words. A JOKE.) :twitch:
CycloneRanger 01-12-05, 07:28 PM	power creep (sometimes cap): an unpopular min/maxing player; also, the aforementioned min/maxer's character. Usage: "Eveything was fine until the Power Creep showed up with his drow evoker/Red Wizard." hehe... reminds me of the Feature Creep from Dilbert, who is also both a person and a process, and utterly annoying. Anyway, as for the book itself, I will not be buying it, since I don't even have the complete arcane yet. However, I have the complete warrior, and I really like it. The core classes are so-so, but I like a lot of the updated prestige classes and the feats. However, I have heard that it's [the complete adventurer] not quite as good as the other Complete books. I will make my own judgement later, if it ever comes to be that I am in a position to buy that book. However, I like the Spellthief class. I'm designing a character right now. It's gonna take a lot of min/maxing to get him up to the level of the other players... but I think I can handle it. Curse the dice for giving me three 9s!
allenchan 01-12-05, 07:42 PM	Just wanted to say that a lot of your complaints arent really about CV, since many of the things have been out for a long time in other supplement books (Goad, swift/immidiate actions, etc). This isnt the first time they have appeared, and in some cases, doubtfully the last.
The Abominable Darkling 01-12-05, 09:46 PM	:doh: Well, I guess the writing staff at The Daily Show won't be returning my calls after all. (Translation: crazysamaritan, it was a pun. A play-on-words. A JOKE.)For what it's worth, I thought it was pretty funny.
Mystic Theurge 01-13-05, 02:09 AM	Another example is the change in Skill Focus from granting +2 in 3.0 to +3 in 3.5. Considering that there were a plethora of feats that would allow a character to get a +2 on two different skills, skill focus at +2 became obsolete. Why take a feat that gives a +2 on one skill when you can take a feat that gives +2 on two skills (if you can). I remember pointing this out to one of my DMs and so we played that skill focus gave +3, and IIRC, alot of groups were doing that, especiallyu since other systems (like SW) came out with skill epmphasis at +3, adding fuel to the fire. Skill focus should have always been +3 IMO.
happycows 01-13-05, 02:40 AM	Int for Reflex is like wisdom to reflex. Besides what kind of wizard has a flat 10 for dex? I mean wizards do like to make touch attacks sometime. Adding int to reflex saves isn't as glammerous as a metamagic feat... oh i forgot you're level 18 now and have decided that you want to be master at taking half damage on fireballs sent at you. Woo that's awesome! =\ Seriously int for reflex saves is just a fluff feat. Don't player hate the fluff feats man.
Vharuck 01-13-05, 03:36 AM	I'm a fluff-loving DM. I browsed this book today, and here are my thoughts: 1. Beautiful art. This Monte guy is really good, and I particularly like the full-page colored drawings. Very nice. 2. Nice, flavorful spells. My favorite by the idea alone (I only browsed) is Entangling Staff. Seems like a very cool spell to use. 3. Boring PrCs. I first picked up the book because I'm a psionics nut and wanted to see the Shadowmind PrC. Dissappointment. I wasn't even interested in the other PrCs by their names, functions, or pictures. The only one I really perused was the Dread Pirate, and I was sorely dissappointed by the "abilities," half of which should be up to the DM anyways, like circumstance bonuses for reputation. 4. The idea of expanding the uses of skills was very nice, and looked well done. Most of the feats looked like they could easily flesh out many more cool character/NPC concepts, and though the new weapons were few and not exactly original, they were a welcome addition to a DM who thinks a person's weapon should help define him/her.
Nithendil 01-13-05, 03:39 AM	There is clearly visible power creep. Older splatbooks had it, it's natural for it to exist, but if you look at the creep in the 3.0 class books and the 3.5 Complete books.. there's a big difference. There are some feats that stand out as being excessive. Actually alot of the stuff that used to be in the 3.0 books has been toned down in the 3.5 books, such as the horn instrument and I believe improvisation. And really, if the party wizard takes a feat that improves his reflexes, rather than say maxamize or quicken spell, good for him. I'd rather the party wizard survive longer than nuke everything I throw at it in two rounds.
LordofIllusions 01-13-05, 11:54 AM	Exactly. No one gets to decide for me what rules I’ll allow in my game … not even WoTC. WoTC is into the game(D&D) for the money. So of course they are going to say buy book(s) A, B, and C. If gamers do not buy books then WoTC does not make as much money as they would if said gamer would have purchased book(s) A, B, and C. By putting out all of these "optional" books they stand to increase profits when fanboys/girls start saying you need said books in order to play the game. WoTC also loves whiney gamers, the whiney gamer always finds something new he/she wants even if it does not fit into the current campaign, hence WoTC creates books with strange new races/classes which are not needed in them(The illumians, the spellthief, etc.). It is all about the money, to WoTC, not about how to improve your game. Just look at how fast they dropped 3.5. ;) ~~~