Post/Author/DateTime	Post
EatFlan 10-29-04, 04:54 PM	Hi everyone, I am EatFlan, and I am a habitual poster. Ok, down to business. I am doing this for the sake of the forum as a whole. This is my observation, and maybe with some help from all of you we can fix it. This Forum is becoming over run w/pure and utter crap, and it doesn't belong here. 'woah there you purist!' is what i'm sure some of you are thinking. But honestly, I am seeing fewer and fewer threads here that actually pertain to what the topic of the forum is. It's "What's a DM to Do?" not "post anything and everything that has the two letters D & M jammed together somewhere" forum. Here are some of my suggestions, and i hope others will add to them: 1) Know what you are talking about, or at least make and honest effort to think and find an answer before posting. I can't stand the posts that go along the lines of "I have 2 dice and a pencil, whats next?" 2) To go along w/the end of #1, post it in the right forum. If you're predominantly a PC and you want to whine about your DM do it on the PC forum. If you want to showcase your freak show character, go to the optimization boards. If you are having a problem with your PC's freak show characters, then you are in the right place, and that PC will soon die. 3) This may seem a bit odd w/what i posted earlier, but if you have an idea and it's not 'i like cheese' or 'boogers live in my nose' then post it! Lets get a little more activity here, there are 40 people browsing at points. So why do the same 8 create threads all the time? We DM's are few, on average there are only one of us to every 4-5 PC's, we need ideas and fresh ones are appreciated. Oration is over. Now if you never see me here again, it's b/c a big block of cheese looking moderator type thing has banned me. Thank you, and good night. flame on.
Board_Rider 10-29-04, 06:04 PM	I really don't find your post offensive at all. However your post is based upon what you hate about posting and posters. Where or how will that post benefit DM's? I agree though that there should be more thread starters and that those threads should have some semblance of prior thinking and thought process. Expect some flames.....
danielinthewolvesden 10-29-04, 06:09 PM	Right, your post breaks your own rules, it shoudl be in the Board Business Forum! :D
LukiLoki 10-29-04, 06:16 PM	1. Yes, with a workable search function (I've tried it; it works!), repeat posts on common topics can and should be kept to a minimum. 2. We have a problem. The forums are both over- and under-diversified, somehow... (not sure even what I mean, sorry) Trying to say, it seems like, for instance, if you have a rules question that's about a spell, it should go in "Spells & Items," but if it's a DM-oriented question, then it should go here? The new "Rules" sub-forum? No hard and fast rule is going to work for everybody. Agreed that those who are primarily players shouldn't post primarily PC issues here, but I don't think there's a whole lot of that, do you? 3. I post new threads to this forum primarily when I have an actual concrete situation in MY game that I'd like to hear about from other DMs who have had similar situations arise or who are just good DMs who might have good advice. I have rarely been disappointed with the responses. I do not just post when I have an idea better than "boogers live in my nose", as you are suggesting ( :D ), though I will agree with you that many of the new threads lately have been less than crunchy, and not as plentiful as you might think, given the number of members active. I don't know. I have been active here only since a few months before the upgrade, and it seems to me that membership and activity are in a lot more flux right now than they were, and maybe it'll settle down again soon and people will find their niches.
Cymraegmorgan 10-29-04, 06:32 PM	I do not see the problem or the "crap" you claim to see. Not everyone sees what is "obvious". My grandfather was fond of saying, "Common sense is not very common." What is a crap thread to you might be a novice's serious concern. A rule that you see as simple might confuse many others. No one is forcing you to respond to or even read these threads. If you flame and insult newcomers for asking "stupid " questions, you do the community as a whole a disservice. I know there has been at least one thread discussion that I was part of that made me realize I had, for years, been misreading what most thought was a simple and straightforward rule. So even a DM with over twenty years experience can learn something. Your suggestions answered: 1.) "what's next" questions are honest queries that experienced DMs and players should be honoured to answered. There was a point in your playing career that you were at that point, as was I, as was every other player. If only these forums were available when I started. :sad: 2.) While some questions and threads have an obvious place others do not, and it is easier to redirect someone politely than insult their intelligence. As danielinthewolvesden points out, this thread should be elsewhere. :rofl: 3.) I see a lot of diversity in threadstarters, so I really do not understand this part of your diatribe. All over the D&D forums, I am seeing new members posting, starting threads, and generally getting creative. While I do not know any of the Moderators personally, why insult them by comparing them to large blocks of cheese? No need to be meanspirited.
Polymorph 10-29-04, 06:34 PM	No one reading this will think "Oh my gawd, i should stop posting such crap!", but maybe some will think twice about what they post nevertheless :) I like your 3 suggestions. To help the people reading this a little more, the following and a few more would be a good reason to start a new thread. You have problems with your Players You want to introduce new houserules/Spells/Prestige Classes You need ideas for ... You are curious about how other DMs handle ... You need help to preserve game balance/keep your Players happy You have noticed something you want the other DMs to know "Bad" ones would include things like "Torrasque vs. 3 gold Dragons - who would win?!"... go figure ;) Some other topics have been discussed SO many times, that they shouldn't be ressurected. The "I am going to be DM for 8 PCs" and "DM-girlfriend-problems" likely being the most repetitive ones. These threads ALWAYS have the same results and advices in the end, so before you make a new thread use the SEARCH button to see if the topic hasn't been covered before :D One last thing: When posting into existing threads, please read what the others have said carefully, before you post. That's just my 2 cents.
Board_Rider 10-29-04, 06:48 PM	One last thing: When posting into existing threads, please read what the others have said carefully, before you post. Oh my god.....thank you....I thought that I was the only one who thought that way!!! Well said. Nothing worse than reading post replies with the same answers given more than once OR beginning with "This may have already been suggested..". /Back on topic I was thinking EAT, that perhaps the reason that there are such diverse and somewhat basic threads posted here is because there are a higher number of readers on this board. It seems to me that is the case anyway. I sometimes notice that a few posters will say," I tried this in another forum with no luck, maybe I'll try it here" Posters just think that they will get better feedback here.
Lordofthebean 10-29-04, 08:40 PM	When posting into existing threads, please read what the others have said carefully, before you post. I've only done that once and I was in a hurry :embarrass . I felt bad afterwards though. 1) To echo what Cymraegmorgan said, every new DM starts with "what's next?" Flaming people for asking questions is the exact opposite of the purpose this board is intended to serve. 2) There are a lot of forums. Probably too many. If you have a spell that you created, do you post in the spells forum? What if it needs ot be balanced? Would it then go in the DM forum? The DMs forum is (perhaps unfortunately) a catchall area because it is where you can get opinions for those who balance and run the game. Don't be surprised to see players asking about balance issues. 3) I have no idea what you're talking about. I see some people respond to more posts than others, but I don't think all threads are started by a small group of people.
Mister Mayhem 10-30-04, 04:32 AM	I actually agree. The WADMTD forum seems to attract an awful lot of stuff that has very little to do with DMs and DMing specifically, and ought to be moved over to WAPTD or D&DG.
Blane 10-30-04, 10:43 AM	congrats....you contradicted yourself!
Mystery Man 10-30-04, 01:41 PM	I love cheese.
EatFlan 10-30-04, 01:49 PM	To the people that like to congratulate me on contradicting myself: would it be better for me to be quiet and let this junk continue? Or to actually say something. I personally hate hate hate people who have to bring something like what i did up, but i had to be done. If you don't understand what i mean, then you probably don't come here often, or if so you're just a lurker who is content to read and never has an opinion to express. And keep in my the goal is a change for the better, and quite frankly your comments like congrats....you contradicted yourself! are 90% of the crap that i'm talking about. if any of you have ever been to the optimization boards you will notice in time that misc. postings that don't belong are quickly and immediately dealt with by the posters themselves. They actually keep pretty much on topic, and it keeps the forum interesting. Personally i see it as a good thing, it keeps them in order and prevents these forums from becoming true crap fests like what you might see elsewhere (FightingCraft III forums ring a bell?)
Telperion 10-30-04, 01:51 PM	IMHO the various boards around here should be renamed. Or it could just be that I'm too used to the simple and clear-cut way EnWorld works...*shrugs*... Come to think of it the current system is probably the best so that when I check the same board after five minutes I can still find the same topics on the same page, and they haven't fallen to the third or fourth page. So, I really don't have anything to add, other than a question: do we have a D20 board around here somewhere?
Mordmorgan the Mad 10-30-04, 04:02 PM	Was it Sand_Man that prompted this thread, or just a bunch of other posts that "don't belong here"?
J.Augustus Rose II 10-30-04, 04:12 PM	No one forces you to read these so-called crap threads. Also, if someone is new they might not understand how everything works. So instead of instantly jumping on your high-horse and thrusting your nose into the air at the "newbies" you could try keeping a civil tongue in your mouth and helping them out. The D&D board as a whole is one of the most hostile and snotty places I've ever come across and it's not the newbies that are the problem.
amethal 10-30-04, 05:10 PM	The D&D board as a whole is one of the most hostile and snotty places I've ever come across and it's not the newbies that are the problem. That hasn't been my experience. My first post on the psionics board (and so far my only post on that board, apart from replies on the same thread) was a query about a character I had thought up and whether it was overpowered. Most people thought it was fine. One person thought one aspect was overpowered and suggested a solution. Another person pointed out something I already knew and phrased it in such a way as it could have been taken as a criticism, but I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Another person gave me the opportunity to enter into an argument, but one which would have been better suited to the character optimization boards so I declined. My general impression was that everyone was pleased to welcome me into the world of psionics and share the benefit of their experience. Not only was my question answered, but I had four different answers to choose from (not good if you are designing the space shuttle, but ideal for D&D).
Daldolin15 10-30-04, 05:37 PM	Another reason why these boards are also seeing a rise in off-topic posts is because we lost the old general DM board and all thats left is this one. I for one posted much more often on the general DM board than this one so its kind of hurts to lose it. The awesome "History According to Sekmet" thread was cut short due to the board loss and now it really cannot be posted here because its not a DM question but rather a DM story.
Fixxxer 10-30-04, 05:44 PM	No one forces you to read these so-called crap threads. The same argument could be made if I erected a billboard downtown with naked people spanking each other with breaded pork chops. "Oh, well...no one's forcing you to look at it." I doubt anyone would make such an observation in that situation, though. I doubt that EatFlan is trying to be an elitist prick here (that's my job on this forum). He's simply trying to do something that many of us have tried (and failed at) in the past...he's trying to reduce the clutter of the forums. I don't think that jumping down his throat is going to make him any happier than it has made anyone else who has tried to do the same thing. To address the real topic: EatFlan, while I think you're on the right track with your thinking, I do believe that the redundancy on this forum (and many others as well) would be severely reduced if people would simply be willing to do a little of the work themselves. If people would quickly look through the books or the SRD or if they would use a forum or Google search, there would be a lot less redundancy. While I'm more than willing to extend a great deal of slack to someone new to the game, I reserve a sort of bile-tasting disgust for anyone who asks for things like "Will you list all of the books and their prices?" or "What books do I need for D&D and where can I get them?" or "How do you play D&D?", since five minutes on Google would answer each of those questions. Perhaps I just have a stigma against laziness. As an afterthought: I like cheese and boogers live in my nose.
FriendoftheDork 10-30-04, 08:23 PM	perhaps I don't frequent these boards enough but... I haven't noticed any problems with posts. Oh, There are many I don't bother to read, but since I now can quickbrowse a thread can ignore most of these rather quickly. Hopefully more people will see the "ask Dms about rules" forum and post such question there. But to tell you the truth I'm more sick of "blablablabla LG blavlavla CE" and blablablabla paladin blablabla" threads that pop up here all the time. That said, I like this forum alot, many DMs, many thinking people, very good response time, and we usually avoid those pesky players :P
Fixxxer 10-30-04, 08:26 PM	and we usually avoid those pesky players :P May they all be damned to an enternity of watching reruns of pokemon! :88E: :D
J.Augustus Rose II 10-30-04, 08:30 PM	The same argument could be made if I erected a billboard downtown with naked people spanking each other with breaded pork chops. "Oh, well...no one's forcing you to look at it." I doubt anyone would make such an observation in that situation, though. That's not remotely the same. Erecting a billboard downtown with naked people spanking each other with breaded pork chops would be against the law, posting a question or topic you didn't know had already been asked or posted is NOT against the law. Though, with the way people act around here you'd think it was. If I had a dollar for every time I read a snotty comment about the search function I sure as hell wouldn't have to get up for work in the morning. It takes more effort to make a snotty comment than it does to make no comment at all.
Fixxxer 10-30-04, 08:42 PM	It takes more effort to make a snotty comment than it does to make no comment at all. True...but there are two reasons I can think of off the top of my head to do so. 1: Ego-stroking. Many of the people on this forum probably have no real life outside of D&D and the internet and use their knowledge of one or the other to have something they can lord over another human being. Sort of sad, really, but there is at least a reason there. 2: Shame. One of the best psychological tactics for getting someone to act a certain way is to shame them into doing so. Pointing out the SEARCH function to someone who was too lazy to use it in the first place might very well get them to use it first in the future. I'm not saying either reason is good...I'm just pointing out that reasons exist (because I'm feeling contrary tonight). Erecting a billboard downtown with naked people spanking each other with breaded pork chops would be against the law, posting a question or topic you didn't know had already been asked or posted is NOT against the law. You're letting an assumption of what is and isn't allowed get in the way of a comparison. Let me try to remove that element by using a different example. Let's assume that a local topless club rents out every billboard in town. They don't have anything illegal on their adventisements, but they have a lot of very suggestive material that makes many people feel uncomfortable and makes many more people (those with self-esteem issues, perhaps) feel bad about themselves. Do you really think that telling every person who has a non-positive reaction to seeing these billboards (which are posted up on every availible space in town, mind you) is going to be helped at all by being told "Well, just don't look at them."?
J.Augustus Rose II 10-30-04, 09:39 PM	1: Those are really crappy reasons and they do nothing but prove my point. I don't care if you think you're the top-dog at the D&D boards, that's no reason to be a jerk about it. And for the record: Being the top-dog at the D&D board is just about the same as being the best bearded lady of all the bearded ladies at the circus. 2: I'm of the opinion thqt the whole world would be a lot better off if most people would mind their own damned business. This is no different. If you don't like it, don't do it/read it/look at it/touch it/smell it/do anything with it. Practice a little self-control people.
Fixxxer 10-30-04, 09:59 PM	1: Those are really crappy reasons and they do nothing but prove my point. I don't care if you think you're the top-dog at the D&D boards, that's no reason to be a jerk about it. And for the record: Being the top-dog at the D&D board is just about the same as being the best bearded lady of all the bearded ladies at the circus. 2: I'm of the opinion thqt the whole world would be a lot better off if most people would mind their own damned business. This is no different. If you don't like it, don't do it/read it/look at it/touch it/smell it/do anything with it. Practice a little self-control people. No offense, but I think you're taking things a little too seriously. It's a bit self-defeating, actually. You obviously don't like self-important elitist smacktards (and don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing with you that we have our fair share of them), yet here you are complaining about them when your own advice urges you to "excercise a little self control" and "don't do/read/look at/touch/smell/do anything" with or to them. If you can't take your own advice, how can you feasibly expect anyone else to?
J.Augustus Rose II 10-30-04, 10:23 PM	Well, you'll have to excuse me. I worked 10 hours today and I'm cranky. I just find the elitists extremely obnoxious. And there are posters here who's topics I will avoid at all costs. Their posts on the other hand can sneak up without warning.
Mr. NewFox 10-30-04, 10:32 PM	Wow, I think that was a board equivalent of pulling someone's pants down in front of a crowd and laughing :) To topic: I have noticed that the quality of threads has not been the same since the change. I have no idea why. I have some speculations, but nothing worth posting. I do believe that people should be encouraged to look at the SRD and use the search function. I think we all agree on that. And I think we all agree that newbies should be cut some slack. But I also believe that this particular forum could be used for much more than it currently is. The DM competitions are a nice start. But I think there could be more threads to get people's creativity going. Things like "the dead thread" I started back in the day, or "goblin fortress encoutner ideas", not just stuff like "1001 city names" (though that has its uses as well). Ironically, though, the best way to set the tone (and content) for these boards is to lead the way. Why I think this thread got some good venting done, it is up to the posters to now try and improve forum quality. And, I would add, to do it in a conscious, careful way that encourages others to do so as well. Heck, I just talking myself into starting a few more threads ;)
Fixxxer 10-31-04, 01:10 AM	Well, you'll have to excuse me. I worked 10 hours today and I'm cranky. I can empathize. I logged in almost nine and a half today myself. It definately makes ya want to pick up a brack and start bashing people *coughcoughbossmancough*, doesn't it? :D But I also believe that this particular forum could be used for much more than it currently is. The DM competitions are a nice start. That's exactly why they were started. We make jokes about it being a way for us judges to lord our elitist titles over people, but the competitions were started originally to inspire creativity on the boards...which is somethign Mythmere has been actively trying to do since he showed up here.
DrWorm 10-31-04, 02:52 AM	I can empathize. I logged in almost nine and a half today myself. It definately makes ya want to pick up a brack and start bashing people I work 12 hours shifts weekly, but then I am a nurse so I do not get to be cranky about it.