Post/Author/DateTime	Post
bansheeman 11-29-05, 07:41 PM	I know as DM's that our players will eventually meta-game and why its fun for them to think they outsmarted the DM its even more fun for me to watch them batch it horrificly because the were meta-gaming. so lets hear it Ill start. Me: the orc hits you him (the tank): ok how much does it do Me: 35 damage Him: :OMG! WTF how? Me: he's got four levels of barbarian. :D
Radijs 11-29-05, 07:54 PM	"you see a creatue,a bulbous body with a central, unblinking eye." The party shouts out loud: "BEHOLDER!" slams the door and barrs it with everything they can find. They wait, and wait and wait. Turns out it was already stuffed and mounted. *GRIN!*
Deluxe 247 G 11-29-05, 08:02 PM	Just thought I'd drop by to say maybe you'd want the 1001 thread title to be grammatically correct. "Surprise".
Neonivek 11-29-05, 08:20 PM	Wow... Try to keep my players suprised (mostly by doing the mistake of having atleast 50% of my things origional) but lets see... hard to think of ways you can stump a metagamer without stomping the non-meta Me: Inside the dark castle where each window boarded up a rather pale humanoid with rather oversized fangs greets you warmly. Player: I Break the windows open Me: The Humanoid bursts into flames Player: WOOT!!! I knew it was a vampire!!! Me: But no one knows of vampires yet... Ohh well Ill allow it DBZ Announcer: Next time on NEONIVEK Z, The players get their butt whooped when they found out that vampire was actually there to warn them of the dragon nest in the other room... They lived but lets just say at lvl 10, having no magical items really sucks... Ok I tried... and It sucked... (ps. I never EVER under any situation base or use any anime for my games)
Radijs 11-29-05, 08:25 PM	And then there's that time I used the were tigers stats for the werewolf. They cringed really.
Mr. Sarcastic 11-29-05, 08:36 PM	DM:"You see a frost-covered zombie shambling towards you. Knowledge check." Wizard:"Um, 12." DM:"It's undead and it does cold damage." Wizard:"Huh." Psychic Warrior:"I charge it!" (1 damage roll later) DM:"It takes 17 points of damage! What do you do?" Wizard:"It's cold based, so it's probably vulnerable to fire. I cast scorching ray." (hit, hit, hit, damage) DM:"You see the Zombie's wounds knit back together. It's completely healed." Party:" :confused: :eek: " Libris Mortis, thou art the bane of stereotypes. A type of zombie that is covered in ice and heals with fire? yep, in there. Damn that book! :P
Neonivek 11-29-05, 09:00 PM	Goodness that reminds me of the time we fought frost covered skeletons... We all attacked and found out they exploded, Lets just say we survived when one well placed fireball hit all the skeletons around the enemy necromancer. (Is the exploding frost skeleton a actual monster?)
stabs 11-29-05, 09:24 PM	This one works if you use a map with miniatures. Draw out a room with six doors on one side. When the PCs walk into the room, explain that they see these six identical doors. Casually draw on the map six small identical rooms behind these doors (keeping in mind that short of x-ray vision, their characters couldn't see these yet). Put five of your scariest miniatures denoting high CR creatures behind five of the doors. Put whatever you use to signify treasure behind the sixth door. Have what you've drawn and placed behind these doors have nothing to do with what's actually behind them. Definitely put a Wight behind the treasure door. Have fun.
Vileneeds of Q 11-29-05, 09:50 PM	Me:You are sure you want to attack the Frost giant? He is carrying a frost giant sized CLAYMORE. Them: Well yeah, the tank will be in front and the dwarf beside him. us two casters will be right behind them and hold our actions. Me: are you sure? Them: Absolutely. initiative rolls were then made, The frost giant rolls a NATURAL 20.....Now this is a group of very expirienced players and I told them if they wanted to rules lawer and munckin out there characters, i was going to do the same. Well a frost giant with greater cleave power attack and 4 levels of fighter was an interesting sight. the sorcerer and the cleric went down. on just his two attacks then the greater cleaves started happening......................... I have never seen a player cry till then. Was I in the wrong?
Mr. Sarcastic 11-29-05, 09:55 PM	Goodness that reminds me of the time we fought frost covered skeletons... We all attacked and found out they exploded, Lets just say we survived when one well placed fireball hit all the skeletons around the enemy necromancer. (Is the exploding frost skeleton a actual monster?) No, but there's a spell to let undead critters explode on contact with anything harmful. Just make sure they don't trip down the stairs. Also, there's a feat that allows undead you craft to explode into negative energy upon destruction, so as to harm enemies and heal their allies whenever they die. Another feat grants them cold damage to their attacks. So I guess that's where your skellies came from.
Pellanor 11-29-05, 11:32 PM	NPC: "If you try to fight me, I will execute you all." PC, OOC: "Sense Motive, is he really confident that he can kill us all, after studying us for the last 6 months? ****. Natural 1." DM: "He is absolutley sure that he can defeat all of you without breaking a sweat. PC's: Okay, after discussing amongst ourselves for a while, we have determined that he is bluffing. We charge. DM, 2 rounds later: "Time to put another notch into the TPK belt." I always find it funny how players can talk there way out of a natural one on a sense motive, or similair check, and end up with the exact opoiste result. SOmetimes it's fun to give them the right answer when they roll that one.
Latro 11-30-05, 02:48 AM	*party spots a group of skeletons in a small village* *group charges in with minimum of strategy and a maximal lust for personal glory* *skeletons rank-up, lock shields and lower their spears* *second rank of skeletons fires a volley of bolts at the charging players* *several skeleton horsemen charge into the flank of the players from an alley* :D It turned out the group of skeletons were an experienced unit, killed together and raised together and still reacting with the "reflexes and drills" of their living days. :cool:
Dragonsblood 11-30-05, 02:58 AM	DM:"You see a frost-covered zombie shambling towards you. Knowledge check." Wizard:"Um, 12." DM:"It's undead and it does cold damage." Wizard:"Huh." Psychic Warrior:"I charge it!" (1 damage roll later) DM:"It takes 17 points of damage! What do you do?" Wizard:"It's cold based, so it's probably vulnerable to fire. I cast scorching ray." (hit, hit, hit, damage) DM:"You see the Zombie's wounds knit back together. It's completely healed." Party:" :confused: :eek: " Libris Mortis, thou art the bane of stereotypes. A type of zombie that is covered in ice and heals with fire? yep, in there. Damn that book! :P That's not metagaming, infact it's the opposite. It's logical to assume a cold based monster is weak to fire, and a knowledge check let him know it was cold based. It would be metagaming if the player avoided using fire spells because he knew they would heal it.
shadowsofwhite 11-30-05, 03:53 AM	Me: "you open the door and find a huge chasm, there is a small ledge with a door on the opposite side." Player: "I poke at the chasm with a stick." Me: "it's solid." Player: "I step out and poke at the square in front of me" Me: *sigh* "still solid" Player: "I take another five foot step and poke at the chasm again" Me: "make a balance check" Player: :confused: *rolls* "19" Me: you suddenly shift five feet to the left :devil: Player: :uh-huh: yes, I actually did this. The bridge across the chasm was around the side, across the middle were invisible shifting blocks. The rogue, who thought he was all that and tried crossing the middle with his "I poke the chasm" method, he died about twnty feet in.
Toptomcat 11-30-05, 09:06 AM	The moment they describe the 'red' dragon is a very, very smart green dragon who's got a lot of red dye on his hands...
Leewei 11-30-05, 09:16 AM	Me: "you open the door and find a huge chasm, there is a small ledge with a door on the opposite side." Player: "I poke at the chasm with a stick." Me: "it's solid." Player: "I step out and poke at the square in front of me" Me: *sigh* "still solid" Player: "I take another five foot step and poke at the chasm again" Me: "make a balance check" Player: :confused: *rolls* "19" Me: you suddenly shift five feet to the left :devil: Player: :uh-huh: yes, I actually did this. The bridge across the chasm was around the side, across the middle were invisible shifting blocks. The rogue, who thought he was all that and tried crossing the middle with his "I poke the chasm" method, he died about twnty feet in. Not metagaming. Malicious DMing. How else is a rogue to deal with the situation you described aside from cautious poking and prodding as he goes?
Far_Traveler 11-30-05, 09:58 AM	i agree with the post before me, he should of said he advances, poking the chasm ahead of him constantly to avoid falling down, (with my former dm, i should of said i stop when there is no solid chasm, that was the last straw, he always assumes our characters are retarded even with 18 int)
l33t Shinobi 12-14-05, 08:46 AM	:bump:?
Spike_Fightwicky 12-14-05, 12:58 PM	(Level 9 party looking for a special gem being guarded by they don't know what) Me: "The door opens, revealing a large room. It's mostly featureless, except for the centre. There's a large metal statue on a slightly elevated platform. A gem matching the description of the one you're looking for is set in its chest" Player 1: What does the statue looke like? Humanoid? Me: *Reads description of a Shield Guardian* Player 2: Holy ****! It's a freakin' iron golem! Player 3: OMG! Is the statue moving at all? Me: Nope, just standing very still. Player 1: Ok, this is going to be the big fight, let's make sure we're ready! *Players cast all assortment of buff spells, spending most of their daily allotment of spells* Player 4: Alright, I'll approach the statue. Me: "After you approach within about 20ft of the statue, it begins looking around" Player 1: Let's bring it down! Roll initiative? *After initiative* Me: "All right, it goes first, and starts casting. A ball of fire springs forth and erupts in the middle of your formation" Player 2: What the heck? Iron golems don't cast spells?!?!?! About 2 rounds later, the thing is destroyed. The PCs were cheering themselves on for killing a CR 13 monster, when I told them it was a simple shield guardian. They were pretty much out of spells for the day. And they had a long day ahead of them :D.
UndeadMouse 12-14-05, 02:27 PM	No, but there's a spell to let undead critters explode on contact with anything harmful. Just make sure they don't trip down the stairs. that spell is cool :cool:
Thurbane 12-14-05, 04:46 PM	My players were suitably surprised that the "spellcasting" goblin leader they were fighting was a barghest (they were thinking puny goblin shaman), complete with Damage Reduction :D
Evil DM Mk3 12-14-05, 08:19 PM	Goodness that reminds me of the time we fought frost covered skeletons... We all attacked and found out they exploded, Lets just say we survived when one well placed fireball hit all the skeletons around the enemy necromancer. (Is the exploding frost skeleton a actual monster?) Variant skelleton from libris morts (technically feat free...) and brittlebone alcemeical substance (also LM)
tiercel 12-14-05, 09:50 PM	My players were suitably surprised that the "spellcasting" goblin leader they were fighting was a barghest (they were thinking puny goblin shaman), complete with Damage Reduction :DOh yes. My players encountered a "towering, muscular blue goblinoid wearing in a fine silk tunic and breeches, a heavy falchion hanging on the wall nearby," as the leader of an incursion of goblins. Glamered chain shirt, and greater barghest -- advanced. (Greater barghests are CR 5?!? And if you advance them.... and tweak their feats a bit....) That was shortly after my 8th or so level characters learned that large numbers of normal goblins actually *can* be a threat if they can dogpile-grapple you, especially the caster who can fire off AoE effects (this was before the Swarmfighting feat, mind you). Lots of my monsters get their feats shuffled a bit. Have to keep them guessing whether this giant has Combat Reflexes or not.... PCs who aren't using true seeing should virtually never know when they are facing a rakshasa, until it's dead (or unless they have lots of Knowledge (Planes) and start getting suspicious about its high SR, high DR, spellcasting ability, and its penchant for targetting the ranger with the +1 holy bow). That Change Shape ability is nasty. ...and of course the rakshasa is even worse if you decide that levels of Eldritch Knight are meaner than mere levels in sorcerer. ...and you give it the Arcane Strike feat. (shudder -- after actually using the feat, I was pretty much "what were they THINKING?!" with regards to gish characters)
ImtheDM 12-14-05, 10:11 PM	DM(me): The fighter grapples the mage to the ground and puts a knife to his jugular. "Leave or the Mage dies!" Fighter PC: A dagger only does 1d4 damage, I charge. you can all guess how messy that ended up. Player: Drizzt doesnt use a Blunderbuss!! (Gun) DM: **** you this is my world. DM: The goblin hits you. Monk: whatever...how much damage? DM: 58 points (shapchanged storm giant) Monk: I ****ing hate you. DM: A halfman/halfwolf attacks you. Fighter: I pull out my silvered sword and charge. DM: your weapon has no effect! Players: :confused: :confused: :confused: In my realm were creatures are only affected by Jade weapons. the only other stories i could tell you are from those prissy pain in the arse players who memorize the monster manuals in an attempt to better me. To this I have only one thing to say: **** you Im the DM
Jesper 12-14-05, 10:42 PM	I like changing the regnoration damage types ie for trolls only elctrity and adamantie harmed them (instead of fire and acid)
witchhunter99 12-15-05, 02:18 AM	a pally is trying to get over a mountain pass guarded by an ogre... Pally:Ive had enough, i draw my sword! Me: The ogre throws off his cloak revealing spiked full plate and a huge greatsword.. ;) Pally:I charge, 18, do I hit(thinking he did)? :D Me:No. The ogre attacks...take...46 damage.. Pally:... :eek:
TheLastOfTheFallen 12-15-05, 02:40 AM	DM(me): The fighter grapples the mage to the ground and puts a knife to his jugular. "Leave or the Mage dies!" Fighter PC: A dagger only does 1d4 damage, I charge. you can all guess how messy that ended up. I hate that. I had a similar situation once. I've houseruled since then that an injury to a vital part of the body from point blank (IE a dagger being held to the jugular, or a crossbow held agains the chest) requires a fort save. On faliure, you drop to 0 hp. My PCs are a lot more careful now.
The Sinister Rogue 12-15-05, 03:25 AM	This one happened when I was actually a player. I played a rogue. We discover a secret room with a two chest and a stone statue. The group's bard started jumping about that the statue was going to become alive if we touched one of those chests. Take into account that our characters never ever fought a gollem or animated objects yet. My rogue checks the chest and even the statue for traps and find none. So she stated that they don't need to worry about anything because the statue is just a statue. But the bard keeps going on that the chests must be trapped and that the statue will come to live if we open them. My rogue, convinced that the area is untrapped, just opens a chest while the bard's player is still whining over the statue and proposes different kinds of things to do to the statue (one idea was to blind the statue by trowing his winterblanket over his head...). Well, the statue was indeed a stone gollem, but that is not the point... :D
Thurbane 12-15-05, 05:15 AM	Well, like with the Barghest, powerful monsters that can look like other, weaker creatures are great. Ogre Magi, Rakshasa, Efreeti etc. etc. :D
Calico Jack Drake 12-15-05, 03:15 PM	Well, the statue was indeed a stone gollem, but that is not the point... :D This would have been really funny if the bard would have taken all of his precautions and then discovered the staute was just a statue... the chests, on the other hand, were all mimics. --CJ
Terjonwh 12-15-05, 03:49 PM	NPC: "If you try to fight me, I will execute you all." PC, OOC: "Sense Motive, is he really confident that he can kill us all, after studying us for the last 6 months? ****. Natural 1." DM: "He is absolutley sure that he can defeat all of you without breaking a sweat. PC's: Okay, after discussing amongst ourselves for a while, we have determined that he is bluffing. We charge. DM, 2 rounds later: "Time to put another notch into the TPK belt." I always find it funny how players can talk there way out of a natural one on a sense motive, or similair check, and end up with the exact opoiste result. SOmetimes it's fun to give them the right answer when they roll that one. There are several problems with your scenario. First a natural one is not an automatic failure on skill checks. Their bonus may be high enough even with a one. Second sense motive checks should always be rolled by the DM, in secret. Third, in this case, failure would mean they believe he was bluffing and that they could take him. Finally a TPK is a failure on the part of the DM. It is not something to be proud of.
Cayl 12-15-05, 03:58 PM	(blah blah blah - DM ignores the rules) you can all guess how messy that ended up. (blah blah blah, DM uses Drizzt in his campaign) DM: **** you this is my world. (blah blah blah, DM ignores the rules) Monk: I ****ing hate you. (blah blah blah, DM changes rules, supposes people in the world don't notice) In my realm were creatures are only affected by Jade weapons. (blah blah blah) **** you Im the DM Who still plays with you?
larry_the_titan 12-15-05, 04:02 PM	This would have been really funny if the bard would have taken all of his precautions and then discovered the staute was just a statue... the chests, on the other hand, were all mimics. --CJ I think i will go with the statue being a golem and the chests also being mimics. You know i might just have to use that in the future.
Argamoth 12-15-05, 04:15 PM	I think there's a fine line between keeping the players guessing and just going on a power trip. I agree with the were-creatures and jade. It's 'common' knowledge that were-monsters hate silver, even people who don't play D&D know ledgends about silver bullets.
Pellanor 12-15-05, 04:16 PM	There are several problems with your scenario. First a natural one is not an automatic failure on skill checks. Their bonus may be high enough even with a one. Second sense motive checks should always be rolled by the DM, in secret. Third, in this case, failure would mean they believe he was bluffing and that they could take him. Finally a TPK is a failure on the part of the DM. It is not something to be proud of. Okay... 1. We use the variant where a Nat 1 counts as a -10 and a nat 20 counts as a 30. 2. Neither Myself or any of the DMs I know make any rolls for the players. 3. Failure does not mean that you're automatically wrong. Typically when somebody fails a sense motive check I pick one of the possible solutions, sometimes at random, some times not. In this situation you had the possibilities that He was telling the truth, that he thought he could take you but is probably just overconfident, that he was just putting on a show for his minions and was really planning on letting you go, that he was bluffing, and probably some others that I'm too lazy to think of right now. 4. A TPK is not always a failure on part of the DM. If the PCs really dig their own grave, and there's no way to save them without being totaly unrealistic, then there's not much you can do. That being said, I have never had a TPK and hope to never have one. The TPK belt was a joke. You're supposed to laugh. Ha ha ha, lol, roflma. See, it's not hard. Now you try.
Thurbane 12-15-05, 04:51 PM	2. Neither Myself or any of the DMs I know make any rolls for the players.Add me and all the guys I have played under to that list. For any roll where the player(s) cannot be certain whether they succeeded or failed (Apparaise, Search, Listen, Spot, Sense Motive etc.), the DM has always made the roll. When you search for traps and find none, does that mean there are none there, or that you fluffed your roll? If you roll the dice yourself, you will already know. If the DM rolls and tell you that you found no traps, then it is on your shoulders to interpret what that means. Adds flavour and a little "realism" to the game.
tiercel 12-15-05, 05:02 PM	Finally a TPK is a failure on the part of the DM. It is not something to be proud of.A designed TPK is a failure on the part of the DM -- the point is not to "beat the players." An encounter that, intended to be challenging but not TPK, winds up being a TPK despite the players' best efforts (possibly due to bad luck)? That's more of a grey area, depending on the style of your campaign. In a more realistic/gritty campaign, all dice rolls in the open, this sort of thing can happen, and as long as players know in advance, then fair enough. (Players should know to have fallback options!) In a more heroic campaign where the DM fudges the dice occasionally, then obviously the DM didn't fudge enough if it was supposed to be a climactic battle and a narrow victory for the PCs, but it went TPK... Finally, if an encounter becomes a TPK through PC negligence/poor planning/silly actions in combat, I don't think it is incumbent upon the DM to "save the PCs" -- quite the opposite. Should a DM be proud of a TPK? No. That gets back to the "DM vs players" mindset we should try to avoid, whether as a DM or a player. On the other hand, are TPKs always a DM's fault? --Only if every consequence in the game world is utterly controlled by the DM, and who wants to play in a game like that?
Coren 12-15-05, 05:16 PM	I don't know. In one of the funnest campaignes I've ever been in the DM said at the start 'You guys probably won't survive this. Make sure you have extra characters made up.' The entire game was at breakneck speed and there was actual danger because he outlawed rez spells. I think I made it through five sessons before I died to a falling iron door.
TrajanCavalous 12-15-05, 05:48 PM	In this instance they were actually going to get a huge boost but meta-gamed themselves out of it. Players were trapped in a city full of undead, enclosed by a seemingly impenetrable force field. Mundane magics like teleport and plane shift could not get them out. They looted one of the best treasure stores in the city and amongst the items found a small metal box. One of the players fiddled with it in a hallway. It sprang from his hands, began to open into a larger something but hit the walls, stopped and went back into the box shape. Player said, 'Ahh, I know what that is.' and put it away. He thought it was an Instant Fortress. It was a minor artifact, Kwalish' Planar Corvette, capable of bypassing the barrier and escaping the city. But they never opened it again. They were in that city for weeks. :)