Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Titan W 05-30-05, 11:20 PM	I want real things you have had to say "No" to your palyers for. 1) Blowing up the multiverse with an epic spell 2) Blowing up a planet with an epic spell 3) Teleporting a sun with an epic spell 4) Trying to use the Ninja PRC in a core campaign, trying to buy a quickblade rapier, in a core campaign, five minutes after I told them this was a core campaign with no ninja...
siege72 05-31-05, 12:55 AM	I want real things you have had to say "No" to your palyers for. 5) Players asking to play monks, drow, or psions, when my house rules say (in bold), "no monks, drow, or psionics, ever."
the Horc 05-31-05, 01:02 AM	6) Frenzied Berserker getting +12 damage out of Leap Attack, then combine it with ShockTrooper.
Asmodai_00 05-31-05, 01:08 AM	7) Trapping a fire elemental and a water elemental inside a chamber to make steam 8) Anything soap, towel, sponge, or paper towel related to a water elemental 9) Shooting down a zepplin with flaming crossbolts to "help them(the rest of the party) get down faster"
Always-Late 05-31-05, 01:38 AM	#7's absolutely brilliant. The eversmoking bottle.
TheChilliGod 05-31-05, 02:45 AM	10) Wanting a gestalt Ranger/Sorcerer, when all of the party are roughly equal to each other in power (at only 1st lvl, it's easy to figure that out) 11) Wanting to turn my throughly planned (and adapted, I won't railroad) campaign into a pirate campaign. 12) Wanting a Blessed Quiver of Ehlonna at 1st level, and not earning it. 13) Wanting a Barrel of Complete Randomness, that does completely random things every so and so. (not mine, but the DM for that one put out a big no nevertheless. 14) Wanting a Chaotic Evil character, in our good campaign.
MrkGrismer 05-31-05, 09:29 AM	15) Wanting to wish for supernatural abilities
High Octane 05-31-05, 09:38 AM	16) Forgotten Realms feats in a non-forgotten Realms setting. "The shopkeeper has never HEARD of shadow spells that work in an antimagic field. Why do you even WANT them? I have thrown an antimagic field at you yet! You're level 3!"
Leibel 05-31-05, 10:23 AM	17) Wanting guns in a fantasy setting - not just the musket/pistol in the DMG but star wars style blasters.
Need_A_Life 05-31-05, 10:26 AM	18) "Mind paying for the pizza" Or 18) starting at lvl 1 as a ghost
Leibel 05-31-05, 10:28 AM	20) Temlate madness: I want to be a 1/2 vampire, werewolf, fiendish and spell stitched. Me: NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. 21) Drow Druid(huh) who became a vampire and still wanted to stay in the party. In a good guy empire that hates all undead.
PlaidViking 05-31-05, 10:28 AM	22) Human bard trying to forge documents to say he's the heir to a dwarven keep. 23) 16 Fighter/4 Reaping Mauler wanting to "wrastle that big lizard and make 'im me pet" refering to the Tarrasque.
Dragonfang1 05-31-05, 10:35 AM	24) Apone finding a rusty dwarven warax : Player "I wonder if its magical i will bight it to find out." ... (it was magical) Me: Apopne biting iy you first slice of your jaw and then it burst into flame an burns your eyes and all facial hair. Please roll 5d6 damage. Not realy a no but i had a good laugh :D
Tillumni Sephirotica 05-31-05, 11:21 AM	25) Can I use this feat/prc/race I found on the net? (example: jump attack feat that adds d20+ jump modifier to damage.....yes he wanted to combine the feat with a ring of jumping) 26) player wanting to make a char exactly like the one he had that just died.
grimfaery 05-31-05, 11:23 AM	25) Player: Can I play a ninja? :dancin: DM: No! :noway: Player: Why is it you hate ninjas so much? :confused: DM: I don’t hate ninjas, I just hate people who like ninjas. :evillaugh Player: Hey!!!!!! :weep:
The Last Guardian 05-31-05, 11:25 AM	25) A player not really liking the Forgotten Realms setting but playing cauz we all are, has to make a character perferably from the Silver Marches (campaign location), but decides that he wants to make a character from planescape (1st No) 26) Same player then wants to be a male wizard from Rashamen, but doesn't want to use the magic system (hates memorizing, but wants all the metamagic benifits so he doesn't want to be a wizard or sa orceror) so he wants me to change the magic system for him so he can use the mechanics for Psionics because 'its a better system' :rolleyes: (2nd No) 27) Same player then wants to use Magister Class from MontyCooks Unearthed Arcane plus a but load of spells from it when i specificly stated that nothing out side the core books and Forgotten Realms products will be allow or even considered but still wants me to 'take a look at it' (3rd No) :mad: 28) Oh and one of my favorite from this player. When i tell him that a certain Class or Pres Class doesn't exist in my campaign world because i don't see it working or i don't like the flavor of it he tells ME to 'make it fit /or work'. :mad: Every conversation i have with this player, somewhere at some point i'm "No no no <player name>"
Thanatos02 05-31-05, 11:54 AM	30) "I want to be an assassin who kills the other PCs midway through the campaign in their sleep." For real. EDIT: Hot diggity, I remember posting to a thread by a player who wanted to do exactly this. I guess it's not as random or uncommon as I had hoped.
Temrek 05-31-05, 12:04 PM	31) Sacrificing a minor artifact to create a artifact weapon with Ancenctral Relic (From book of exalted deeds), the artifact was there for plot reasons and the PCs had no use for it (all it did was to allow someone who casts a gate spell to make the gate permanent).
Leibel 05-31-05, 12:12 PM	I hate to post again(I don't want you to think I have nightmare powergamers I have some good roleplayers) but - That whole Samuari/Ninja infatuation thing(For some reason it's always the non-asians who want to play them, ever notice that) - Wanting to multi-class into everything; I can understand going from ranger to horizon walker or wizard into loremaster but please no rogue/ranger/fighter/assassin/wizard nonsense.
Glenn4Moose 05-31-05, 12:17 PM	Wanting to read a tome of <insert stat and bonus> in an hour when the book specificly says six days. Boy did he try to get me to change it though.
wereooze 05-31-05, 12:31 PM	22) Human bard trying to forge documents to say he's the heir to a dwarven keep. I wish my players could write their own plot-hooks like that. Thats tehe best i've read all week! I envision the "coucil of beards" getting together and demanding a "vision quest" of the PC which involves traveling into the Underdark, wearing a skirt, and bringing-back an Orc shaman's ribal chalice filled with rancid Mimic urine. Don't spill it or you have to start over. Much laughing ensues when the PC argees to the mission.
siege72 05-31-05, 01:14 PM	34) Players picking prestige classes that make no sense in the campaign (like a Guild Thief who goes adventuring in the wilderness). 35) Players who pick their prestige classes before rolling up stats.
The Axeman 05-31-05, 01:59 PM	35) Players who pick their prestige classes before rolling up stats. Isn't this what is done all the time? What is the problem with it? Proper character construction consists of having a concept first then working that concept into the campaign. It has nothing to do with stats.
siege72 05-31-05, 02:18 PM	Isn't this what is done all the time? What is the problem with it? Proper character construction consists of having a concept first then working that concept into the campaign. It has nothing to do with stats. Stats play a major role in prestige class choices! A lot of PrC's require feats with prerequisites, and skill requirements are easier to meet with a higher Intelligence. A fighter with two 18's and four of 10's isn't going to have as much flexibility as one with all 14's. To top it off, the player had no idea what the basis of the campaign was going to be, was starting out at a fairly low level, and was assuming that all prestige classes were permitted. Oh, and I think he was pulling 3.5 PrCs when only 3E ones were up for consideration.
The Axeman 05-31-05, 03:02 PM	Stats play a major role in prestige class choices! A lot of PrC's require feats with prerequisites, and skill requirements are easier to meet with a higher Intelligence. A fighter with two 18's and four of 10's isn't going to have as much flexibility as one with all 14's. To top it off, the player had no idea what the basis of the campaign was going to be, was starting out at a fairly low level, and was assuming that all prestige classes were permitted. Oh, and I think he was pulling 3.5 PrCs when only 3E ones were up for consideration. Granted what you say is true. I don't view stats as a limitation on what you can do with a character. I mean your going to have at least one high stat and maybe two, which you can put where you want. So in my campaigns stats do not play a factor in what your going to play. BTW, intelligence doesn't really matter because skill requirements go by your ranks not your total ranks. As long as you have a positive modifier to your intelligence you can get into any PrC. I'm more intersted in have a vision of my character from the beginning because players tend to role play better when they are playing a concept of their own devising rather than a bag full of numbers they have been given and told to peice together a character from that. So we go 1. Concept first - what do you want your character to be like/do? 2. Will it work in the campaign? This is where you talk to the DM. 3. Map the progression - base classes then what PrC(s), feats, skills, etc. 4. Get your stats last and place them in the attributes that will be best for your concept be it short or long term.
TheUnknownZombie 05-31-05, 04:04 PM	36) All players are told 2 weeks in advance that it's a core book only game. 1st level. PHB races only. On the night of the first session... Player: I've got a 1st level character, but he's got a +4 LA. Can I use the race anyway? DM: No. Player: Oh. Well his class is one I found online, it's a little overpowered, but... DM: No. Player: Hmm. Well he has an ancestral weapon. It's not all that powerful, basically it lets him use it as a +2 weapon vs most things, but +4 vs evil creatures. DM: A world of no. Player: You're so inflexible. It'll take me hours to come up with a replacement. He was then handed a premade character sheet by another of the players who had expected such a thing. The funniest thing is that he really couldn't understand why he wasn't allowed to be something that broke almost every single creation rule made. I haven't played with him since, but I hear it's something he still does. Hell, I heard that he turned up for a 28-point buy game with a 40-point character. His reason? "The stats weren't high enough."
psychocow 05-31-05, 04:37 PM	37) A Druid in my group decided that even though he had no crafting training or weapon proficiency he could make and use just about everything out of the Shape Stone spell. "It says you can make moving parts" He tried to make a crossbow "NO" A masterwork dagger out of a handful of diamonds "NO" A padlock to lock a door "NO! YOU DON'T KNOW A THING OUT LOCKS!" he also tried to roast a bullet and make food for the party for a month =/
SneakyPetey 05-31-05, 06:34 PM	38) A pair of wartigers. (Trained to attack enemies, of course.) 39) A ballista mounted in a wagon (I never figured out how the player thought the physics of this idea would be feasible!) 40) Sharkskin pants for a barbarian-type fighter. BTW, all these came from the same player... He's no longer with our group. I think the denial of the sharkskin pants was too much for him to bear! :)
SwitchUK 05-31-05, 06:55 PM	5) Players asking to play monks, drow, or psions, when my house rules say (in bold), "no monks, drow, or psionics, ever." I have to ask... why do you have an embargo on monks? Seriously, as a DM, monks are some of my favourite characters. assuming they're done intelligently...
speeblefreak 05-31-05, 08:27 PM	#XX: Using an improved blink spell to run straight up. This was refused me, by the way. #XX+1: Being a Chosen of Mystra at level 3. Really! :nonono:
The Axeman 05-31-05, 08:30 PM	I have to ask... why do you have an embargo on monks? Seriously, as a DM, monks are some of my favourite characters. assuming they're done intelligently... Some people don't want Oriental influences to be a part of thier vision of their world. I happen to agree after playing with countless lame-o ninjas etc.
captainswift 05-31-05, 09:46 PM	Keeping in mind this was in a Modern campaign. I had crashed a plane in a small, isolated town where the big mysterious event was to take place. Player 1: "Hmmm. I think I have a friend in this town." Me (always ready to reward Player creativity): Okay. Player 1: "So I go away for a few minutes, and come back with a Hummer, with pump-action shotguns for everybody." Me (no longer anxious about Player creativity): Uh... no.
Valgaav 06-04-05, 03:47 AM	I have to ask... why do you have an embargo on monks? Seriously, as a DM, monks are some of my favourite characters. assuming they're done intelligently... yeah...a PC who tries to get a class specifically denied by the DM, and written in BOLD TYPE, is going to run it intelligently... :rolleyes:
Taris 06-04-05, 11:00 AM	I had one player who requested to a DM that he wanted to do the following... "I want to open a portal from, get this, the plane of positive energy. But I want it to open up to... get this... the PLANE OF NEGATIVE ENERGY!" Theoretically, that could destroy the multiuniverse, right? Since I wasn't one to test that theory, I politely told him no, for going into either dimension to open said portals would result in his death. Cool idea though. Gave me the idea of using some contained positive energy and a sphere of annihilation (contained negative energy) to create a D&D medieval version of a nuke. Then there was the one who wanted a spelljammer ship... in a world that has yet to get a man to travel in the astral plane without astral projection. He wanted to use the ship to conquor kingdoms and bombard castles. I had to tell him no. That was, by coincidence, also the time when I needed a delivery system for my pos/neg energy nuke.... :D
Elemental 06-04-05, 11:44 AM	1: "I want an INT bonus at first level. Can I use the Savage Progression for drow, and not bother taking any levels after the first?" 2: "Since the Romans knew about steam power, I want to build a network of nonmagical railways." 3: "Can I be a half-vampire with a reduced level adjustment? Because LA is WotC trying to screw over powerful characters." 4: "Can I be a domain wizard and have extra powers for no cost? Why not, you said you were allowing variant classes?" 5: "Can I turn this Metalline weapon (+2 magic weapon quality that lets it change material) into that stuff from Complete Warrior (or somewhere) that lets it trap souls?" 6: "I want to develop explosives that can knock down walls! I have Alchemy." Actually, he bragged about being able to make them to the rest of the players before asking me, then went on an extended rant about realism when it was vetoed. All the same player.
Venom of the Yuan Ti 06-04-05, 01:26 PM	wanting to play an OOTS character. Wanting to play the OOTS BARD!!!
siege72 06-04-05, 01:44 PM	yeah...a PC who tries to get a class specifically denied by the DM, and written in BOLD TYPE, is going to run it intelligently... :rolleyes: I know, I know... that's almost as bad as the prospective player who was cheesed off because I don't allow drow, and that's the only race she plays. But don't worry, she said she never plays evil drow! :confused:
Zachary The First 06-04-05, 01:44 PM	People trying to bring full, detailed Kenders from Dragonlance (complete with Geographical descriptors) into a FR campaign and expecting people to treat it as normal.
Ekranoplan 06-04-05, 02:21 PM	22) Human bard trying to forge documents to say he's the heir to a dwarven keep. How could you say no to something like that???? That is amazing and has unlimited potential for many things. I really wish my PCs would make more use of the forge skill. I even provide perfect oppurtunities at certain points, but they always ignore this potential short cut in the quest.
Snytherion 06-04-05, 02:47 PM	5) Players asking to play monks, drow, or psions, when my house rules say (in bold), "no monks, drow, or psionics, ever." You're a genious!!! That is the exact houserule I run. You're a visionaire :bow::bow:
Flushmaster 06-04-05, 05:20 PM	I have no idea what number this should be... #XX Using the knowledge (local) skill to instantly know everything about a city that the character had been in for less than three days, and the character wasn't from anyplace near that place. The player proceeded to demand (not ask, demand) and would even roll for this every five minutes and demand (again, not ask but demand) to be informed of exactly what she wanted to know (and she actually thought that this was "roleplaying" and acting in character).
Raynard the Black 06-04-05, 11:31 PM	I had one player in my group for a while that would ask to play the silliest character combos I've ever heard of. Coming to me and asking me if they could play a fighter that specialized in fighting with dual spiked shields. His character did not believe in using traditional weapons. It wasn't allowed. The following week he topped it. He wanted to play a pyro that would light everyone and everything he came into contact with on fire using home made molotov cocktails (flask of oil with a rag sticking out of it). Um...No! He once created a wizard that had an intelligence of 10. He could only cast 0 level spells. This one was also not allowed. Why would a party allow a wizard to adventure with them as an equal member of the group if he couldn't hold his own? His characters tended to die quickly. During one gaming session he went through 3 characters. He started the day with a character who died in the first comat of the day, created a second character who died in his first combat and finished the game with a character that made it through the end of the adventure barely. He was frustrating, however we never got bored with him at the gaming table. His characters were called the "freak of the week" in our group.
Shazarn 06-05-05, 01:03 AM	Whoever said that the ballista on the wagon couldn't work is wrong. I mean it would have to be a modified wagon and that would be about the only thing on it but I could see an army using them as batlefield artilery. Wait, now I see why you said no. :D
Flushmaster 06-05-05, 01:05 AM	Actually, I wouldn't see a problem with the dual spiked shields. He wouldn't get a shield bonus to AC unless he had the Improved Shield Bash feat (assuming that you allow Complete Warrior material) and even then would only get the benefit of one (same type of AC bonus, and I'm pretty sure that multiple shields don't stack). Complete Warrior actually has some pretty good feats for using shields in combat, prompting me to at least muse on the idea of a dual weapon fighter that uses a large spiked shield as his primary weapon (short sword or such in the off hand) and focused on feats like Improved Shield bash, Shield Charge, and such (but I tend towards spellcasters myself...maybe this idea will become an antogonist or other NPC in the game I DM). The "molotov cocktails" would be perfectly legal as splash weapons; stuffing a rag into a glass bottle of oil isn't exactly a modern or technologically addvanced trick. He'd just have issues in carrying enough of them around if those were his main weapons. But I definitely agree on the 10 intelligence wizard. I'd have likely smacked him for that one.
DarthMarasmus 06-05-05, 01:54 AM	"Some people don't want Oriental influences to be a part of thier vision of their world. I happen to agree after playing with countless lame-o ninjas etc." Amen, brother! I freakin' despise monks!!! Mostly it's because one of the guys that plays in our groups a lot is a black belt in tae kwon do and assumes that everything that he knows how to do, his character knows also (and not just regarding combat, his characters also know how to do other things, which I can't think of, but I'm sure if it ever came up, they'd know how to take x-rays too).
Always-Late 06-05-05, 02:13 AM	I forgot where I saw this one, but... "Hi, I am Master Bob, the teacher of the initiates at our wizard academy. Unfortunately, I have an intelligence score of ten, so I do not have access to the higher level spells, but the head of the school allows me to remain and teach initiates. However, I have trained for an extensive period of time, and I possess a ring of wizardry I and ring of wizardry II, and have trained in mastery of basic spells, so I can cast ray of frost 48 times a day without preparation." Oh, and for the pyro character, that's actually not too bad of a character concept. They've even got a prestige class for it. Pyrokinetecist in training, say.
ImmortalBlueMage 06-05-05, 02:21 AM	Well, maybe if you thought of them as something other than "oriental" you might not have such a problem. In my setting, for example, a Samurai is a bodyguard for nobles and rich merchants. They don't have to wear fluted helmets covered in pictographs, they don't walk around in their offtime in wooden sandels and bathrobes, and they don't have names like Shiang Nui. The Samurai, Ninja, and Monk classes are all perfectly servicable outside of silly "oriental" settings, just like you don't have to drop the Empire of Rome into your setting in order to use the Phalanx Fighting feat nor do you have to recreate the Greek isles in order to include a Hydra in your campaign.
Flushmaster 06-05-05, 04:34 AM	Well, maybe if you thought of them as something other than "oriental" you might not have such a problem. In my setting, for example, a Samurai is a bodyguard for nobles and rich merchants. They don't have to wear fluted helmets covered in pictographs, they don't walk around in their offtime in wooden sandels and bathrobes, and they don't have names like Shiang Nui. The Samurai, Ninja, and Monk classes are all perfectly servicable outside of silly "oriental" settings, just like you don't have to drop the Empire of Rome into your setting in order to use the Phalanx Fighting feat nor do you have to recreate the Greek isles in order to include a Hydra in your campaign. Well said. I couldn't agree more. A monk in D&D is a skilled martial artist with heightened senses and reflexes. Take this to a high enough level of progression and you get the abilities of high level monks. A "stunning fist" is basically knowing how to properly strike to daze an opponent of knock the wind out of them, for example. A ninja (using the Complete Adventurer version) is pretty much a stealthy character who specializes in quick, powerful attacks. The only thing "oriental" about the class aside from the name is the ki powers, and even then only the usage of the word "ki." Call them "shadow powers" instead and a "ninja" could easily be an "assasin witch" in a strictly feudal european based setting. A samurai and a modern secret service operative are in many ways similar except that in feudal Japan the samurai were also nobility. The D&D samurai class (at least the one from Complete Warrior) isn't even nobility, but just a fierce soldier who is supposed to be loyal to a lord, master, commander, or other authority figure (it doesn't even take much stretching to make them honorable mercenaries with reputations of honesty and loyalty to employers). Really, a little bit of thought and the realization that this is a fantasy world we're talking about (and therefore is no more like England than it is Japan), and the "oriental" classes can be decidedly "westernized" just as easily as the "western" classes can be "easternized" or such.
ImmortalBlueMage 06-05-05, 05:18 AM	The thing of it is that most campaigns will have "oriental" classes even if they dont' call them that. Most settings have some manner of stealthing assassin that fits the Ninja theme even if they're not called Ninjas, most settings have knights or personal guards for nobles that are similar to Samurai even if they're not called Samurai, and although I guess not every setting has to have martial arts, I'm sure at some point someone in the Forgotten Realms or wherever decided that it might be a good idea to learn how to hit things really hard with his hands and feet.
The nameles one 06-05-05, 05:32 AM	xx. Player who wanted rifles in Forgotten Realms, based on the fact that Lantan gnomes have them. xx. After turning that down he made a gnome with alchemy to make gunpowder himself. Both ideas shot down.
MortalPlague 06-05-05, 07:33 AM	Really, a little bit of thought and the realization that this is a fantasy world we're talking about (and therefore is no more like England than it is Japan), and the "oriental" classes can be decidedly "westernized" just as easily as the "western" classes can be "easternized" or such. I'm one of those DMs who prefers less asian flavour in his game. I don't ban the classes, but I'm not a fan of them either. The suggestions here for westernizing the classes are good, but the thing you have to remember is that the players won't necessarily see it that way. You could tell them they're playing an honourable mercenary, and they'll go around acting like a typical japanese samurai. The westernization of the image requires a joint effort.
Taris 06-05-05, 08:49 AM	"Some people don't want Oriental influences to be a part of thier vision of their world. I happen to agree after playing with countless lame-o ninjas etc." Amen, brother! I freakin' despise monks!!! Mostly it's because one of the guys that plays in our groups a lot is a black belt in tae kwon do and assumes that everything that he knows how to do, his character knows also (and not just regarding combat, his characters also know how to do other things, which I can't think of, but I'm sure if it ever came up, they'd know how to take x-rays too). I'd allow monks, but to a point. After all, it was not unheard of for medieval Christian monks in isolated monasteries to be trained in hand to hand. They weren't as munchy as D&D monks... but then again D&D is fantasy. I guess my point is that the monk doesn't have to be oriental. There are european examples too, such as boxing and savate. Try a european style monk instead. Hell, maybe even a friar tuck type that fights like a drunken monk. *LOL*
High Octane 06-05-05, 08:52 AM	25) Player: Can I play a ninja? :dancin: DM: No! :noway: Player: Why is it you hate ninjas so much? :confused: DM: I don’t hate ninjas, I just hate people who like ninjas. :evillaugh Player: Hey!!!!!! :weep: FINALLY! Somebody put into good words WHY I dont allow ninjas!
J.Augustus Rose II 06-05-05, 09:04 AM	I wasn't the DM but this is one my group always laughs about. The player wanted a anthropomorphic, feral, baleen whale monk. And he was serious. And he couldn't understand why the DM said no.
Taris 06-05-05, 09:06 AM	I bet you guys get this one alot... Player: Can I call my character Himitsu Ryu? Or essentially, asking for a Japanese character in a medieval setting. I had to tell him no. He already did this in too many other campaigns (but ones where he could get away with it). I was sick of that damn name. The fact that he tried to use it again where it was inappropriate was the last straw... Then he asked for a no-dachi.... I lost it there. I'll leave out the rest of the details for the sake of politeness. He did get a new name... the sadly uninspired "Korvan the Slasher". :rolleyes:
Elemental 06-05-05, 09:41 AM	I bet you guys get this one alot... Player: Can I call my character Himitsu Ryu? Or essentially, asking for a Japanese character in a medieval setting. Next week: "Okay guys, I'm running an Oriental Adventures game." "Cool! I'll play a Paladin in plate mail called Bob Smith."
VirgilCaine 06-05-05, 11:42 AM	Well said. I couldn't agree more. A monk in D&D is a skilled martial artist with heightened senses and reflexes. Take this to a high enough level of progression and you get the abilities of high level monks. A "stunning fist" is basically knowing how to properly strike to daze an opponent of knock the wind out of them, for example. A ninja (using the Complete Adventurer version) is pretty much a stealthy character who specializes in quick, powerful attacks. The only thing "oriental" about the class aside from the name is the ki powers, and even then only the usage of the word "ki." Call them "shadow powers" instead and a "ninja" could easily be an "assasin witch" in a strictly feudal european based setting. Really, a little bit of thought and the realization that this is a fantasy world we're talking about (and therefore is no more like England than it is Japan), and the "oriental" classes can be decidedly "westernized" just as easily as the "western" classes can be "easternized" or such. I used to not like the monk, but then there was a thread on another board about De-Orientalizing the Monk and I found two explanations for monks that I like--that monks almost unconsciously use magic to enhance their natural abilities--thus increased movement, AC, etc. OR that alchemical concoctions are used to increase their toughness, quickness, etc. Also, there's the As for "ki", just call it "pneuma"--the ancient Greeks did, and they had remarkably similar martial arts to the East. Look up "Pankration" on Google.
Flushmaster 06-05-05, 01:33 PM	I used to not like the monk, but then there was a thread on another board about De-Orientalizing the Monk and I found two explanations for monks that I like--that monks almost unconsciously use magic to enhance their natural abilities--thus increased movement, AC, etc. OR that alchemical concoctions are used to increase their toughness, quickness, etc. Also, there's the As for "ki", just call it "pneuma"--the ancient Greeks did, and they had remarkably similar martial arts to the East. Look up "Pankration" on Google. The same could be quite easily done with the ninja base class from Complete Adventurer. In fact, the ninja's ki powers are more overtly magical (invisibility, etherealness, ghost strike, etc) so it's easier to use this explanation. I can agree with MortalPlague on the joint effort thing. Though I haven't actually experienced such a thing, I could easily see a DM explaining the campaign setting and how it has nothing to do with asia but they allow "oriental" classes and specifically note the "de-orientalizing" of them then an idjet player (probably a bad roleplayer who thinks they're the next Lawrence Olivier) shows up with a ninja character that is pretty much straight out of a bad movie, wears all black (including mask) even in public, looks Japanese (not necessarily a bad thing, but often a signal of worse transgressions), and probably even "speaks" with a horrible accent and says things like "You have no honor!" to everybody they fight (IRL, interestingly enough, ninjas generally didn't give a damn about honor, that was the samurai's thing). In such a case the DM should smack the offending player and hand them a premade character to use for that session as their punishment (making it as "uncool" as possible for the person, like a flaming gay halfling ballet dancing bard-no offense to any gay people, I have a few gay friends, it's just that most ninja fanboys wouldn't find such a character cool). There's a ninja PC in my current campaign that I'm DMing. The setting is kind of a cross between feudal Europe, the Aztec Empire, and the jungles of Africa (a homebrew that was formulated when I had monkeys on my mind- don't ask). The PC doesn't say a lot, and makes it a point to stick to the back of the group in social situations, "laying low" and such, and in combat quickly and quietly looks for an ambush opportunity. That is what a ninja should be doing, or at least it's one good way to do it.
DarthMarasmus 06-05-05, 03:54 PM	In all honesty, I probably wouldn't be opposed to someone playing a monk if it wasn't always the same damn person playing him the same damn way EVERY time. Of course, he's not the only problematic player in the group, there's another guy that's really just there to socialize (which I think is probably the monk guy's reason for playing, just to socialize) and he always names his character something stupid like "Napolean Dynamite" or "John Stewart" or some crap like that (and yes, I DESPISE the "movie" ND, someone should be shot for inflicting that on the world!!). The lack of proper naming conventions in our group, the old, worn out character archetypes, and the general silliness of the players is why I don't play with them anymore. It's my opinion that when we sit down to play, all the bull-s**t stops. If I wanted to socialize, I wouldn't have my dice on the table, the PHB (DMG, etc.) in front of me, and a pencil in my hand. The problem is that I just can't find any serious gamers in my area that have schedules flexible enough to be able to play when my roommate and I can play (he's a cook at a restaurant and the weekends are OUT for him). The other problem is that we're right smack in the middle of the "Bible Belt" and everyone down here thinks that the 11th Commandment is "Thou shalt not roleplay." Aargh, these people **** me off!! Don't get the wrong idea, I'm a Christian myself, I'm just not an idiot about that sort of thing and realize that the only evil in it is what we put into it, if that makes sense. Sorry, tangent...
siege72 06-05-05, 07:33 PM	Well, maybe if you thought of them as something other than "oriental" you might not have such a problem. I don't care for the Oriental flavor, so that's a problem right there. The problem is, take away the flavor, and you're left with Super Heroes in a fantasy game. Or psionics. And neither of them fits the games I want to run.
neilthrun 06-05-05, 09:10 PM	40) Sharkskin pants for a barbarian-type fighter. BTW, all these came from the same player... He's no longer with our group. I think the denial of the sharkskin pants was too much for him to bear! :) Whats wrong with sharkskin pants? It would create an interesting background. Where did he get the pants? How old are they? Why does he wear them? Its not like hes asking to have a robotic armor suit or a shirt made out of spandex.
Leibel 06-06-05, 12:29 PM	The Asian madness thing - very annoying. I allow Samuari in my homebrew world(alternate earth world) but in the historical context only; mounted combat/archery fighters who were part of the nobility and by and large only Japanese folk can become one. Nice suprise for the PC who wants to start the next campaign in Japan just to become a Samuari(his PC is from another empire although he is human). I'll give him a shot at becoming a samuari but make it difficult and require role-playing(a skill he lacks as no class has it a class skill). Guns too annoy me - they kill the fantasy appeal of fantasy.
Ni! 06-06-05, 02:38 PM	XX. Player who wants to be a ranger:"Please, please, please tell me we are playing with ulimited ammo." Me: ...No The player got angry, he seemed to actualy think that unlimited ammo wouldn't break a bunch of classes... He stopped wanting to be a ranger after that...
Taris 06-06-05, 03:23 PM	Ohhh... like arrows are SOOOO hard to make! *LOL*
9544683 06-06-05, 04:27 PM	XX+1: player who wanted to kill off the deities. level 17. (i guess it counts... the character eventually did kill the deities. Much later. At level 42 he took The Tarrasque, and at level 46 he took the deity of War. Then all of the racial deities. Then Pelor (stupid wimp wouldnt stop crying). Then Kord. Then the deities of all the alignments. Then everything that wasnt forest-related, except for Corellon Larethian. And finally, he tried to take out the Psion deity, but failed miserably. Now he sits as "Garrett, Greater Deity of Chaos, Law, Evil, Good, Fighting, Peace, Elves, Orcs, Gnomes, Dwarves, Halflings, Ice-cream, etc... Basically the greater deity of everything that is not Forests, Psionics, Plants, and Pudding. Pudding is for the deity of Psionics, and no-one elses.") Orcs, in the highly stereotypical view, are the progenitors of the "Chop first, chop second........ask questions as a distant third" rule of thumb.
ImmortalBlueMage 06-07-05, 07:02 AM	You could tell them they're playing an honourable mercenary, and they'll go around acting like a typical japanese samurai. ...yes...but they could do that with virtually any class. The problem is, take away the flavor, and you're left with Super Heroes in a fantasy game. Or psionics. Superheroes? How? I don't think a monk using slow falls or quivering palm is any less realistic than a Fighter using Whirlwind Attack.
Brave Sir Robin 06-07-05, 07:33 AM	my players ask me this every time we play #XX Player:can I buy a ring of shild thats always on and only costs 1,000Gp Me:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! !!!!!!!!!
Taris 06-07-05, 09:03 AM	my players ask me this every time we play #XX Player:can I buy a ring of shild thats always on and only costs 1,000Gp Me:NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! !!!!!!!!! Sure... give him that ring of shield... Ever seen Stargate Atlantis? Now watch as your player furiously tries to turn the damn thing off so that he can eat! *LOL*
siege72 06-07-05, 10:06 AM	Superheroes? How? I don't think a monk using slow falls or quivering palm is any less realistic than a Fighter using Whirlwind Attack. Here's my POV: Imagine four warriors (fighters, barbarians, paladins, rangers or a combination), all 16th level, with the powerful magic items appropriate to PCs of their status. If they went up against a CR 11 dragon, the odds would be in their favor (despite an unbalanced party). This makes sense to me. Now imagine four arcane casters (wizards, sorcerers, etc, etc), also 16th level, with time to prepare the appropriate spells, gather the needed magic items and spell components, etc. The odds would still be in their casters' favor. I can see this... one or two of the casters may get killed (since they don't have the hit points the warriors do). Four clerics are a "maybe"... they don't have as much offensive power as the fighters or spellcasters, but have a decent spell selection (especially for defense!) and can heal damage. Rogues and bards.... probably not. And then the monks.... They four of them aren't going to be properly equipped for 16th level. A +4 item to up their Dex, a +4 item for Wisdom, +3 Bracers of Armor and a +3 Cloak of Resistance. And give one or two a means of flight. And you know what? They're still going to have an easy time taking out the dragon. Sure, their unarmed BAB isn't that great, but they get five attacks. Just from the magic items, our poorly-equipped monks have a +11 bonus to AC (+14 if you count the monk's base AC bonus). Ki Strike, Spell Resistance, and Improved Evasion will negate most of the dragon's other abilities... Allowing the monks to kick, punch and slap the dragon to death. That completely breaks my suspension of disbelief for a fantasy setting. But I could see a superhero doing it.
Leibel 06-07-05, 10:37 AM	Unlimited arrows - please this is not Diablo. I had an elf rangeress who used an elven double bow(4 arrows a round w/rapid shot 3 w/many shot) who had craft(fletching) and made extra arrows every minute the group was not adventuring. She never ran out of arrows - because she made them. You can shoot alot of arrows if your putting 4 in the air every turn for 8 combat turns so you if your playing an archer you MUST have craft(fletching). For my rangers it's as important as survival. What next - the DM said the campaign is in a port city should I put ranks into Profession(Sailor)???????.
Traevanon 06-07-05, 10:50 AM	XX: My players want to capture EVERYTHING... I finally had to say NO when the party numbers topped 20. In Combat their roster would look like this Charcter Berserker Ranger w/ Krenshar (animal companion) Paladin w/ Krenshar (puppy, hoping to train it) Rogue w/ Shadow Mastiff (not a pet, but is hopeful) Catlady w/ Shadow Mastiff (not a pet, but is hopeful) Cleric w/ lantern archon and spiritual weapon Cleric w/ spiritual weapon and summoned creature Necromancer with Ogre Zombie, Dire Wolf Zombie and skeleton Theurge Wizard Not that it's illegal, but I had players who could never get into combat because the other players were sucking up all the room with their pets. :(
SeidonVanDolf 06-14-05, 03:51 PM	Okay I say no clerics, druids, rangers, paladins or any other divine spellcaster no patron dieties. Very particular storyline involving a god in need. I also say No big dumb barbarian types. Brains are important to get through this. So one guy says "Can I play a cleric of Elhonna?" and another gives me a sheet with a barbarian with an intelligence of 9. *shakes head sadly*
Kingpin23 06-14-05, 10:38 PM	#XX: Asking for monkey grip, and then complaning about how it was not broken and I was unfair for not letting him have it #XX2: Asking for arcane strike with his warforged artificer under the reasoning that he wanted a smite attack. After I said no, he then asked what was the in charceter reason that he couldn't have it. #XX3: Same player complains when his awakened magebread horse is killed by two maxzimed frostballs and attempts to reincarate him only to have him come back as a frost wurm. In the middle of sharn. In Merrix d'Cannith house. In the end, the House Cannith wand squad had to enervate him to death and the PC was kicked out of the house. But it was my fault because the frost wurm shouldn't have been inculded in the randomly rolled list of magical beasts. #XX4: Haveing a different player ask to play a drow, pause for a minute, then ask to play a drow samuari. That one was just funny.
captainswift 06-14-05, 11:24 PM	Again, this was in a modern era D&D game. I told the players when they were creating characters that the first session would be on a plane flying cross country from NY to LA, that an important political figure was on this flight (goblin rights activist, don't ask), and to come up with the reason why they were on the plane. (Silly me, I thought the hijacking was implied in this scenario.) So one character comes up to me and says, "Can I have a briefcase with something special in it?" Hesitantly, I asked what it was. "Do I have to tell you?" "Um, yes. Otherwise I can't exactly approve it." Although I knew what he was getting at. "Okay. I want a bomb." --actual quote!!!-- "I'm really familiar with my bomb. I know all about my bomb. I can detonate it, un-detonate it, anything I want." Oddly, rather than refusing immediately, I asked him how he intended to un-detonate the bomb. It seems like it actually took him a minute to realize that meant fixing it after it blew up. This was the same player that, in another game, with a completely legitimate reason to join the party, with goals that completely matched up with ours, and who actually needed our cooperation to accomplish his goals, spent the entire first session following us from a distance, hiding in the bushes, and spying while we set camp. (He was not a rogue or ranger, or anything for which these actions made sense.) And, when the party finally made a spot check (this was one of those campaigns where nobody could make a spot check) and went to confront him... He ran!
Brandchan 06-14-05, 11:54 PM	At some point in one of my games all the players got to meet with their god and ask for something. Player I want to fight Kord (at 10th level). I was like dude WTF? I think Kord ended up trowing him back though the portal he came from. Other player at this same instance wanted some super magaical power from Boccob. Ok Boccob gives you some cake to eat. Player: I eat it what happens? You now have diarrhea for four days. >_< Another time the player who had wanted to fight Kord wanted to make stuff out of Purple wyrm skin. He had the skills to do some of it but some how he said he could make a full suit and sheild out of it and it would be a +10 to ac. I was like uh no dude, no. Another time when I was playing with this dude he wanted to get some supposed treasure out of the bottom of the deep ocean and we had no way of getting it and he would drop it. So my character dropped him off the side of the boat. This same dude also wanted to play a Wizard/Druid (now this is after we banned him from magic classes because he would web his own party all the time). I was like why would a Wizard also be a Druid or a Druid also be a Wizard? They are two very different schools of magic with two very different lines of thought. I told him if he could think of a reason he could play the character but he never did. He really just wanted access to more spells.
OctoberRaven 06-15-05, 12:27 AM	Well, one time, someone in a pick-up dungeon hack (I did a lot of these when I only had this basic set with dice, miniatures, and dungeon floors, which we call "The Box") who was just starting out wanted a 'Fart' skill. I told her no, but she kept having her character fart anyways >>. That was the first and last time she played (for now, I'll let her join my campaign if she promises to actually play...she took 2 turns and hid behind a PC while she went and did other crap ><)
Vacerious 06-15-05, 12:40 AM	this was a while back, but i remember the general stuff about this encounter. the party needed cash to fix their flying ship. after finding out about a quest to break up a pirate conclave, the flind gnoll fighter has an idea. here's the conversation that followed. Fighter: i'm going to sell myself out for some gold. Rest of party: no. what the hell are you thinking? DM: As you walk down a dark alley, you feel someone hit you across the head and you are knocked out. you wake up the next morning with a strange pain in your rear. A stack of 100 gp sits beside you on the bedside table Fighter:aw man. i just got raped. Rest of party and DM: :OMG! :rofl: :rofl:
PoeticJustice 06-15-05, 12:49 AM	Well, today a guy wanted to play a tower. Not animated o anything, he just wanted to play a tower. Not a lighthouse or a wizard's tower, mind you. e just wanted roleplay a plain old brick tower with a mean face on it.
TheCaptain 06-15-05, 02:15 AM	During our last D&D session, my party and I were getting ready to jump an approaching boss (inside a VERY small dungeon area). Keep in mind i'm a 4F5 dwarf. Anywho, the conversation went like this: DM:You can hear loud womping footsteps approaching the thick oaken door. Me: Can i tip over the table and hide behind it? DM: ..... You are aware that the table is over 2X your height..... Me: what? grumble..... DM: I know what you could do! You could cut your way through the 1" table with your axe and pop out, goin HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERES DWARFY! Me: Can I???? DM: No....
Hal Horn 06-15-05, 03:32 AM	A Character of mine wanted to play a half Elf, Half Orc. Yep, you heard right. he said it was perfectly feasable and balanced. Another character wants to use blink to fly. Yup. You heard me. Froma ring of blinking. More of a funny aside, a LG Infused (demi-angel)he threw a statue of Erethnul against a wall. While inside a temple of the same. While holding a Book of Vile Darkness. After hurling the statuette, he read the BoVD.I think you can surmise some of the consequences. ~Hal|Horn~
roguken 06-15-05, 08:24 AM	After stating that this would be a campaign where you could only use races with a lvl ajustment of +0 Player: "Can I be a gold dragon?" Me: *one eyebrow raised incredulusly* a dragon?!? Player: "yeah, you're right, that's a little much. how 'bout an illithid?" Me: NONONONONO!!! ONLY +0!!! Player: "Fine, fine... you know, the tarrasque doesn't have a level adjustment..." Me: slaps player
Herald@Large 06-15-05, 04:05 PM	Had a very domineering and bullying player whose NG character was only a few XP away from leveling up. He wanted to start a bar fight and kill an innocent-bystander-total-stranger patron -- in a lawfully aligned city. :( He finally got so obnoxious ("You're holding my character back just to be mean!") that I let him start the fight. The bartender called the city guard, one guardsman was a cleric who cast Hold Person = end of fight. The PC was arrested and put on trial for "Assault with a deadly weapon" (he'd used a flametongue longsword on an unarmed man :eek: Came 1 HP within killing the patron). He was found guilty, fined 1000 GP (which went to the family of the man he'd injured) and sentenced to 50 lashes at the public whipping post. I'l admit it was a bit excessive, but I was sick and tired of his constant bullying -- wound up tossing him from the campaign a few weeks later.
Jemima Aslana 06-16-05, 04:37 PM	I was starting a newb campaign. Reason? I'd promised some people I'd teach them D&D - no biggie. So I and a friend took some time to sit down and guide them through char creation, one of my main demands to participating players was that they(players) have some measure of intelligence, so trusting that they'd all be able to understand my explanations I set off. However, something had to go wrong. Duh. In order to make sure we started out with a harmonious group I would only allow good and neutral chars and nothing overly weird. No drow for instance. (Starting at 1st lvl on the Moonshaes the presence of a good aligned drow would be hard to explain) And I'm in conversation with the dude who's going to be the group's major tank, and as I encourage role-playing I always make a point of letting characters choose skills depending on background. Example: A char who grew up on the outskirts of the Anauroch likely won't have a lot of ranks in Swim, whereas one who grew up on the Pirate Isles likely will. That kind of stuff. He wanted a bada$$ fighter, so I told him that most fighters are thus. In which direction did he want to go. "I want him to be totally cool" - watch me go: "uhhhhh yeah, right" Eventually we reached the point where I wanted the dude to describe his fighter's personality to me, so I could help him choose skills and feats. And what did he describe to me? A fighter who was neglected as a child, who never received any love and is thus unable to understand emotion of any kind. For instance if he saw a baby in a burning house he would not understand that people would mourn the loss of the child's life. In effect the fighter was emotionally stunted. Thus making him in effect Evil. I told my player this, and he argued that the fighter did not mean any harm and that he didn't do anything out of a malicious wish to hurt people. So I had to tell him that alignment is not based on what you know inside your head but rather where you stand in relation to the rest of the world. Being cold, cynical, and to a degree ruthless may be what this fighter was familiar with as normal behaviour (thus good), but the alignment signals a little more than that. He didn't seem to understand the meaning of my 'no'. So I tried a different approach: My second argument was as follows: "Dude, you know nothing of D&D, spite of me and my friend writing a very elaborate step-by-step guide to char creation you still need major help with this, and you want to play a mental case. That will be very difficult for you." Player: "Yes, yes, but I'll manage." Me: "I don't think you quite understand me here. My game will not be about you sitting on your porch drinking tea. There will be decisions to make - ethical decisions, and you intend to leave your character unable to make Good-aligned decisions. That means you will very soon find yourself outnumbered in a fight." Player: "That's okay, I don't mnd." (By this time I was at the end of my ptience) Me: "You still do not seem to understand me. What you're doing is you're making a character who, when you play him, will (if not be - then at least) become Evil. I have said I don't want Evil chars in my campaign. Do you see my problem here?" Player: "But he's not evil. Just cynical and emotionalyl stunted." Me: "That makes him Evil." Player: "No, he just doesn't understand emotions." Me: "And that makes him do things that will inevitably place him at the Evil end of the scale." Player: "But he's not evil!" Me: "..." *deep sigh* He ended up not playing anyway - dunno why - he said he didn't have time, but I suspect it could also be because he didn't get his way. That group currently does not have a fighter (never tried that before) only 2 rogues, a sorcerer, a ranger, and a cleric. I adjust the game to them of course and it's quite new for me not to be able to count on a tank there. Ah well, the kind of tank I could've had... good lord, I'd rather do without, then.
Master_Drow 06-17-05, 10:35 PM	#) trying to impress a council of deep gnomes that they were infact able to take on the challenges of defeating the drow elf raiding party. Player: ok i take a balista bolt to the chest my AC is 50, and im level 14. Me: Huh? how u get an AC so high ur AC in the lv25 game last month was only 47. Player: well i took all of my feats from the complete warrior and only in AC then i have +5 mithral battle plate. Me: you take damage from the balista roll 3d8 Player: IT CANT HIT ME me: you were hit by a seige weapon used to break walls Player: so. Needless to say i won this argument but for an encor he did it without his armor but with his health as a fighter dwarf he could take the damage.