Post/Author/DateTime	Post
RavenoftheCrags 07-29-05, 01:33 PM	Here we go. What are the best things people have ever done with wishes? 1. Player requested to have an 'weapon with great strength'. I then said 'As you wish' and promtly animated a huge object (a giant hammer from a nearby dwarf statue) which managed to even destry the wishmakers teammate. 2. 'I wish I could fly.' I turned their arms to wings so they cannot grasp any objects or wear gauntlets, gloves and rings. Still they could fly so you know...
rbrt_Spade 07-29-05, 01:42 PM	i like wish but when ppl take great wishs-they should word it good 1-player asks to be immortal-my friend changes him into a rock 2-wishing to raise his level to 40-friend had a cleric use miriacle to steal it 3-wish to change into a great red wrym-ok, but my friend is attacked by a l20 paladin +5 dragonbane greatsword. my friends a evil dm....
orionm42 07-29-05, 01:43 PM	This has already been covered here... http://www.wizards.com/leaving.asp?url=http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=399703&origin=
RavenoftheCrags 07-29-05, 01:45 PM	6. My friend asked for his own city. I teleport him to a random city next to the king. " Go ahead, take the city!"
Dougbert 07-29-05, 02:50 PM	And people wonder why some DM's have a reputation for screwing over their players...
SwitchUK 07-29-05, 03:43 PM	2. 'I wish I could fly.' I turned their arms to wings so they cannot grasp any objects or wear gauntlets, gloves and rings. Still they could fly so you know... Granted. The wisher now knows how to cast the spell "fly". If he already knew it, then all the spell does is point this fact out to him. Alternatively: The spell provides the wisher with all the knowledge they need to be able to fly a helicopter or aeroplane. Or: The spell creates a hang glider.
Dalar Ragnos 07-29-05, 04:49 PM	Don't forget that if they wish they can fly, the duration of the spell is 1/2 of a second. ;) 7. "I wish we had a kazillion gold pieces." A rain of gp falls from the sky onto the party, each piece dealing 1 point of bludgeoning damage (automatic hit, no reflex save, ignores DR). Of course, if they wish for something not within the capabilities of the spell, it should be twisted. Ditto for accepting wishes from Evil sources.
Kaligrad 07-29-05, 05:13 PM	These things keep getting sidetracked by irate posters who seem to forget that this is a place for punishments against players who ask too much, not for the ones who don't try to stretch too far.
Auburn 07-29-05, 05:19 PM	^What's the point of using a wish if it isn't "too much"?
WCH 07-29-05, 05:20 PM	8: "I wish for the 10 sp I need to buy a round of drinks at the bar." "Granted. The 10 sp appear... inside your brain! Roll a new character."
scott644 07-29-05, 05:55 PM	Wish, per the RAW, isn't really loopholed anymore. You give them what they wish for if it would be a ninth level effect or weaker, subject to specified limitations. If the wish requested is greater than the power of the spell, it happens partially, or not at all. In no case should it be treated as a hostile spell, to be twisted in every way possible against the PC's.
WCH 07-29-05, 06:23 PM	Wish, per the RAW, isn't really loopholed anymore. You give them what they wish for if it would be a ninth level effect or weaker, subject to specified limitations. If the wish requested is greater than the power of the spell, it happens partially, or not at all. In no case should it be treated as a hostile spell, to be twisted in every way possible against the PC's.Not exactly... if they try to exceed the limitations, then the loopholing comes in, as it says that you can wish for better stuff, but that it's risky, and the DM can screw you over. Anyway, even that only applies to casting the spell. If you're getting a Wish from a genie or a devil, even if it's within the limitations they could screw you -- it's up to the devil or genie in question. Ultimately, they're the one who casts the spell, not the player, so what they wish for is granted under the same rules. That is, player could wish for 25,000 gp. This is within the limits, and could be granted -- but the devil is feeling malicious and wishes for 25,000 gp to be created directly above the head of the wisher. Devil's wish is granted, and the player is crushed. That's how the spell functions.
Mike W 07-29-05, 07:48 PM	Why do these threads keep coming up? That is, player could wish for 25,000 gp. This is within the limits, and could be granted -- but the devil is feeling malicious and wishes for 25,000 gp to be created directly above the head of the wisher. Devil's wish is granted, and the player is crushed. That's how the spell functions.No, it isn't. Conjuration spells bringing items or creatures to the caster's location must place the item on a surface that can support it. Not even Wish, since it duplicates the effect of lower level spells, can overcome this restriction. Of all of the ways that you can screw with players using a 'Wish' spell, that is probably my least favourite, because it is not only malicious and usually uncalled for, it isn't even within the parameters of the spell. If a Wish spell is going to go outside of the boundaries in which it operates in order to screw someone over for wishing for something outside the boundaries of the spell, then why not just fulfill the wish, instead? Either way, the spell is breaking the rules. I like the tried and true methods of twisting wishes: Wishing for something more valuable than the spell can create gets you Teleported, Wthout Error, to the location of such a thing. Wishing for immortality gets you 'Temporal Stasis'ed, or Plane Shifted to a timeless demiplane, or possibly, if you're really lucky, a copy of the writeup on how to become an undead of one sort or another. Wishing to turn into something gets you Polymorphed into it, with all the benefits and penalties associated therewith. Wishing for levels simply fails, costing you 5,000 xp and a 9th level spell slot for the day. Wishing for things that an 8th level spell or lower could not under any circumstances do either fails, or gets you a close approximation. If anyone wonders why people keep irately sidetracking these posts, then look at the first post: "I wish I could fly" crippling a character. Instead of, say, polymorphing him into a winged human (WELL within the spell's parameters). "I wish for a weapon with great strength" getting a party member killed by an animated object instead of, say, giving the wisher a +2 Mightly Cleaving weapon (WELL within the spell's parameters). People keep irately sidetracking these posts because they are full of DMs who will break the rules of the game in order to punish players for breaking the rules of the game, without realizing that they are perpetuating a harmful double standard and nerfing an already weak high level spell (compare to Miracle, which can do many of the same things but for 5,000 xp less).
allenchan 07-29-05, 09:21 PM	Seriously, these people need to stop living in 2E...
MinusInnocence 07-29-05, 09:26 PM	People keep irately sidetracking these posts because they are full of DMs who will break the rules of the game in order to punish players for breaking the rules of the game, without realizing that they are perpetuating a harmful double standard and nerfing an already weak high level spell (compare to Miracle, which can do many of the same things but for 5,000 xp less).Since the original concept behind this thread was ridiculous, I don't mind hijacking it. Yeah, I agree, Miracle is a little wonky. Have you read the spell description? You don't so much cast a miracle as request one. You state what you would like to have happen and request that your deity (or the power you pray to for spells) intercede.Well... can't the same be said for ALL Cleric spells? I mean really, isn't what a Cleric does basically a form of divine intervention? This spell is redundant and cheesy. I've removed it from the Cleric list entirely, it now only exists on the Luck domain list. As for Wish... I think a lot of the antagonism between DMs and players regarding stuff like this comes from AD&D when spells like Wish weren't as clearly defined. In 3E, we have very specific parameters under which the spell operates and it even states if the player's request exceeds these parameters, you're within your rights to say the spell simply fails. So, misinformation on the DM's part and perhaps a deep-seated desire to stick one to the players whenever the opportunity presents itself are responsible for stories about tyrannical, PC-killing Wish-twisters.
Fixxxer 07-29-05, 09:53 PM	Sad. :nonono:
Loren Pechtel 07-29-05, 11:34 PM	Wish, per the RAW, isn't really loopholed anymore. You give them what they wish for if it would be a ninth level effect or weaker, subject to specified limitations. If the wish requested is greater than the power of the spell, it happens partially, or not at all. In no case should it be treated as a hostile spell, to be twisted in every way possible against the PC's. If it's being cast by a evil power it should be twisted if possible.
allenchan 07-29-05, 11:46 PM	If it's being cast by a evil power it should be twisted if possible. Only if the evil power is chaotic and doesnt want his minions to excel, and thus doesn't want himself to exist? I cant think of a God who would want to kill off his most powerful servants. That seems very illogical.
Arquinsiel 07-30-05, 12:02 AM	I interpret the request as literally as possible. Usually this results in more or less what the player requested. Occasionally bad things happen. Once or twice I've done the sneaky "genie on the bus" bit and had radnom wishes become granted dues to player inatention but they tended to be more inconvenient than harmful. Ie: "I wish you would go away. Granted!" *the other character is teleported elsewhere, the party must spend a few minutes scrying for them and then brign them back* Usually it's not much of a challenge to a party at levels high enough to have wishes being flung about.
WCH 07-30-05, 12:28 AM	Thing about devils and genies twisting wishes is that, yes, they would need reason to do so. Let's say you outsmarted a devil somehow -- he promised you a wish if you did something for him, and you managed to make it so that it was completed according to the wording but not the way he wanted. Then he could get his revenge on you by screwing with your wish, since he's the one casting it, not you.
Kaligrad 07-30-05, 02:28 AM	*Looks left* *Looks right* Told you so.
LugWrench 07-30-05, 04:06 AM	Dont ask me how this makes sense, I was NOT the player who came up with the idea. I was just laughing at the outcome. Our group gets hired to track down a rogue agent. The local ruler gives us a pile of cash and says 'Dont go overboard with my money'. The party gets the idea to buy a ring of three wishes, and use two of the wishes to get some valuable junk. The third wish will be used to wipe out the debt incurred in buying the ring. As the party wizard is explaining how the wishes will be used, the DM gets an evilish grin on his face. The first two wishes net us two items (smelling slightly of a swamp) worth 50k gp, and the third erases the debt for the ring. The party feels pretty smug. Then we notice a shadow on the ground, and a Great Wyrm Black Dragon lands next to the group and politely asks for his trinkets back. Being totally outclassed, the group had no choice but to hand over the items. But the debt was gone...... :rolleyes:
scott644 07-30-05, 08:47 AM	I have read completely through the core books, and while I forget where, I know they clearly stipulate you are NOT (even in the case of an evil granter) to turn wish into a hostile spell. The power involved is what interprets the wish - not the being invoking it. This includes deities, genies, and so on. Some examples: Wish: I wish I could fly forever! Game-appropriate response: apply a permanent Fly/Overland Flight spell. Well within the limits (a 3rd/5th, plus another 5th with significantly lower overall exp cost than the Wish) Nerfer/killer DM response: tosses victim into a plane with subjective gravity, no land, and no way out Wish: I wish for more levels Game-appropriate response: grant 5000 exp. Really only useful when a character is using a wish that doesn't cost them the experience in the first place. Nerfer/killer dm response: teleport the individual character - alone into a situation so severe that even surviving it at all would grant enough experience to level up Wish: I wish to live forever Game-appropriate response: apply the epic feat that extends lifespans. Logic here is, a wish can increase ability scores by 1, and epic feats can do the same, making them equivalent power, thus granting the knowledge/use of any single feat is legitemate. Nerfer/killer dm response: temporal stasis or some other abusive stupidity Wish: I wish to be a better fighter Game-appropriate response: increase any one or the character's primary combat stats by one, or grant a permanent +1 to attack (not BAB), or a permanent untyped bonus to AC, or access to a combat feat the character would find useful Nerfer/killer dm response: same as the wish for more levels if already a fighter-type, or require the next level taken be one of the fighter classes (if feeling less of a jerk on that particular day) Wish: I wish to be a better spellcaster/manifester Game-appropriate response: increase a primary casting attribute by +1, or grant a permanent +1 to caster level if caster level already equals hit dice, or grant Practiced Spellcaster feat of caster level is below hit dice, or grant one of the spellcasting oriented feats the caster would find useful Nerfer/killer dm response: same as the wish for more levels if already a spellcaster/manifester, or require the next level taken be one of the spellcasting/manifesting classess (if feeling less of a jerk on that particular day) And so on. Bear in mind, the spell level restrictions on what it can do drop dramatically based on the type of magic being performed as well; barred schools, divine magic, and so on. Miracle is very similar with one exception; replicating a spell doesn't cost the exp, but it also specifically points out where the exp cost comes into play, keeping it only slightly more powerful than wish. The key to bear in mind here is Wish and Miracle are the ultimate utility spells. They follow the same pattern as all the other ultimate variety spells in the fact they do not have true 9th level in any of their grants - the 9th level power comes in the spells' ultimate flexibility of use. Used within reason, and for rather than against the wishing individual, they become a major contributing and balanced factor in the game. Used against the player, they demonstrate a DM who is clueless.
Dareon 07-30-05, 10:35 AM	I haven't had the opportunity to either grant or make a Wish, but since I tend to favor humorous effects over fatal ones, and bearing in mind the abovementioned "surface that can support created material's weight" stipulation, here is what I'd be inclined to do with a massive money wish. The money appears stacked one coin on top of the other in a giant tower of gold. Assuming a gold piece has a thickness of about a centimeter, any wish worth its salt would result in a stack taller than most buildings. Then you roll for a random gust of wind and start singing "Pennies from Heaven (http://www.acmewebpages.com/whoopi/lyrics/pennies.htm)." No major drawback, if the stack collapses onto a nearby character they haven't fallen far enough to deal damage by the RAW, and further areas would be affected like rain. Reflex saves, 1d20 damage on a failure (That's one check for the entire goldstorm). The characters would just need to spend some time making Search checks to find all their new cash.
Gunz 07-30-05, 11:52 AM	But why? I mean, it can grant 25 000 GP, if I'm not mistaking, so why not just give em that if they wish for lots of money. Granted, that was quite a wacko thing you did/would do, but I guess it's just annoying for the players.
Fixxxer 07-30-05, 03:14 PM	But why? I mean, it can grant 25 000 GP, if I'm not mistaking, so why not just give em that if they wish for lots of money. Granted, that was quite a wacko thing you did/would do, but I guess it's just annoying for the players. Oh, it's because wish exists to let sadistic DMs get their jollies by flaunting a supposedly superior position. Why else would arcane magic users have created the spell and prepare it every morning if not to give the gods a conduit to screw with them? :rolleyes:
LugWrench 07-30-05, 03:22 PM	I dont think the spell exists purely for the gods to screw with the mortals. you can actually get away with quite a bit, as long as you are careful as to how you state the wish, or if the DM isnt paying attention... :D
RavenoftheCrags 07-31-05, 05:56 PM	"I wish I had a million wishes" " 1/3rd of a million rings of three wishes bury you alive" " I wish I had a faithful black pudding to assist me" " You suddenly feel the desperate need to go to the toilet..."
ishnid 07-31-05, 10:55 PM	The Monkey's Paw (aka Lisa's Nightmare) While visiting Morocco, the Simpsons visit a bazaar. Homer finds a small booth displaying a monkey's paw. The vendor explains that it will grant its owner four wishes but also warns that it will bring grave misfortune. Homer dismisses his concerns and buys the paw. Back in Springfield, the Simpsons argue over what to wish for; when Maggie picks up the paw, a limousine suddenly arrives and the driver brings Maggie a new pacifier. Bart grabs the paw and wishes for the Simpsons to be rich and famous, which comes true; however, people quickly tire of seeing their faces everywhere. Horrified by these wasteful wishes, Lisa wishes for world peace. All countries in the world declare peace and destroy all weapons. Before long, however, Kang and Kodos land and enslave the earth armed only with a slingshot and a club. Determined to make a wish that cannot be twisted, Homer demands a turkey sandwich, which turns out to be a little dry. Homer throws the paw in the garbage in disgust, only to be spotted by Ned Flanders. He gladly hands the paw over to Flanders, obviously hoping to see his neighbor's wishes backfire as well. Naturally, Ned's wishes all turn out well as he vanquishes the invading aliens and sees his house converted into an opulent castle. http://download.lardlad.com/sounds/season3/thohb6.mp3
Antioch 07-31-05, 11:12 PM	I never twist around a character's useage of a wish so long as it abides by the spell's guidelines. After all, in most circumstances someone is losing 5k XP to do so. Only when they try to go above and beyond what the spell allows. If someone wishes for a +1 weapon, I'll give it to them. It doesnt come from some random person's collection or whatnot, they just get one. The weapon would otherwise demand only 1k XP, so really they are getting shorted as is.
TLomon 08-01-05, 12:07 AM	There are the wish spells, and there are True Wishes. These wishes are the types granted by gods, archdevils, etc. For those, it is entirely dependant upon who grants the power that the wish is interpretted. An evil archdevil would twist any miswording to evil ends. A godess of good would twist any miswording to good ends. Using the examples above, this is how I would interpret them with a few examples. Turlo's Laws of Wishes 1) Wishes granted by beings will use the lowest amount of energy possible to complete the wish. 2) All wishes must be worded in a roleplaying manner. 3) Wishes that must be used at that moment have a time limit of INT*Minutes to figure out what you want to say. Wish: I wish I could fly forever! Genie: Plane shift to Elemental Plane of Air Good: Cast Fly spell at will. Teleported to a Spelljammer ship. Desire of character taken into account. Evil: Polymorphed into a flying something. Bird, birdman, what ever the desire of the granter. Wish: I wish for more levels Fizzle. No such thing as levels in an RP perspective, and wishes must be stated in RP fashion. Best you can hope for is more levels in a building, or deeper levels in a dungeon. Wish: I wish to be a better fighter Good: Manual of Pursuiant Skill at Arms (or what ever it is called) is summoned from an unknown treasure hoard or abandoned library. Evil: Same but it is summoned from a personal library of a powerful lich, left with an IOU note and the character's name. Wish: I wish to be a better spellcaster/manifester Manual of Gainful Conjuration, as stated above. Teleportation is easier then creation. Granting power and intent of the wisher are also considered.
Ut-Napishtim 08-01-05, 12:27 AM	I don't really feel the need to screw players on Wish. I mean, if you're running a balanced game that's going to make up a pretty big chunk of their earned wealth. The amount of wealth a player expends by using or buying a Wish will generally make up for most of what they could actually get from it. Now, if the PC is trying to cheat the system by consorting with extraplanar beings (I'm not talking Conjuration, it's one of my favorite schools - I'm talking about that player who wants to be epic at 3rd level and says: Where can I go to make a deal with a Demon so I can get a Wish?) In that case their chances of wording the deal so they actually end up with a Wish spell are pretty slim, and if they do the Demon isn't going to be pleased about being outsmarted and will try and twist it. In a nutshell, DM's screwing with wishes is generally bad, players that make deals with Demons should expect to get screwed. If it actually ever worked out in the mortal's favor everyone would be doing it. Any good Conjurer will tell you as much. How many of them have you seen in the materials walking around with high-powered lackeys gained through the various Planar Binding spells? Personally I haven't seen any, and steer clear of that dangerous ground whenever I play a Conjurer myself.
Veton 08-01-05, 12:57 AM	7. "I wish we had a kazillion gold pieces." A rain of gp falls from the sky onto the party, each piece dealing 1 point of bludgeoning damage (automatic hit, no reflex save, ignores DR). I have to wonder how many DMs who do something like this would allow the player to wish for the enemy to have a kazillion gold pieces for an instant no save kill.
Palin the Wizard 08-01-05, 12:58 AM	Any half-way smart DM can screw with a player's wish spell. It's not just very mature. Twist the spell if it is appropriate. The wish spell is supposed to be the most powerful spell in existance: Let it stand up for itself.
PoeticJustice 08-01-05, 01:43 AM	The PC should never kill himself through stupidity. It's much more amusing if they live to speak of it. PC: I wish to for Great Riches! DM: In a flash of light, you find yourself in a large room, above which is a banner that reads 'famous Richards convention'. Isn't that much funnier than being crushed by 25k's worth of gold?
TLomon 08-01-05, 02:22 AM	Let's see. Over the course of the past 25 or so years, the following wishes have been twisted (all based on who granted it) in campaigns I have played in or GMed in. Mind you, these are true wishes, which I consider more powerful then the 9th level spell. "I wish I had a million bucks" to a goddess of nature. 1,000,000 reindeer charge in from the nearby forest and surround the player. At least they ate well that night. "I wish I was super cool" to Asmodeus. (This one was pretty stupid of the player imo). Transported to that layer of the Nine Hells where prisoners are encased in ice. "I wish I was more intelligent" to a goddess of magic. Plus one INT (instead of a normal +1/10 or 1/20 of a point. "I wish I knew where my grandfather's sword was." Character falls unconcious. Player pulled to other room and told of a vivid dream. Character wakes up when player returns to table. Was a nice (and unexpected) catch to a new series of adventures. "I wish Player X's sword was returned to what it was before." Purely selfless request to a purely neutral Archmage (not the prestige, but a special variant from a Roleaid supplement). Resulted in Player X's sword being returned to a pre-cursed state, but not the original unenchanted version. "I wish this was all just a bad dream." Item found in an demi-lich tomb. Although it was technically an evil source, I decided that the demi-lich didn't want its tomb discovered in the first place, so it threw the players back in time (9th level spell) to before they found the location.
scott644 08-01-05, 08:12 AM	There are the wish spells, and there are True Wishes. Both of which, per the RAW, function as wish spells.